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The Shamy - Season 7 Spoilers Only Discussion Thread


rachelshamyfan
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If they wait that long to address the damage to the relationship... Then I think the best course is for them to break up until Sheldon has some time in his busy schedule. The best way to get his attention will be to with draw hers. I can't see any dignified road open to her. At least Lenny had each other. We can only hope Amy gets to keep the wolowitzes and raj.

Honestly, I am less and less enamoured of the watching paint dry dynamic when it is it becomes less clear if the paint will dry. There are three seasons left. Since they admit they aren't 100% sure about their season opener! they probably don't have a tight story mapped out for the next 3 years.

 

There are so many options they could start the season.

 

- They could have Sheldon & Amy have a heart to heart talk onscreen during the first two episodes (assuming these will be aired on the same day)

- They could just tell us (without showing it on screen) that Shamy kept in touch during his time away, and that they are "ok" now

- They could show Shamy broken up at the beginning of the season, and keep that going for long while, with a "make up" moment in the season final.

 

And there are so many other possible options.

 

I personally don't mind watching the paint dry, as long as we see it drying (however slowly). I do hope they write Amy a bit more outspoken to Sheldon, just like she did in the Spoiler Alert episode (S6x15) or The Raiders one (S07x04).

 

That's the Amy I like, not the one is being used as a doormat.

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If it was a fun ride, I'd be on board. If Amy was going to have fun, that would be great. The last time Amy had a good time with Sheldon, was on the train, and that was a huge accident. They haven't had a really meaningful conversation since Love Spell Potential.

If Sheldon was going to do some work to make things right with Amy, I'd be chomping at the bit for season 8. Then I'd be fine with the fact that 1. Nothing is going to change in the living arrangement. 2. The only thing that could possibly change in his work life is that he quits physics and reopened the comic book store himself. (Do you have the balls Molaro?) otherwise... Hmmm string theory. 3. And he might be a little nicer for 3 episodes before he is back in business critiquing people's genital's and how they use them.(which I am fine with by the way. I don't need him to stop saying those things. I want to understand why saying those things is bad and kind of awesome).

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Chi any, all I want is for Amy to not take any more shit... Or even less shit from Sheldon!.. As along as that happens... I am thrilled!

If they are doing the modern patient Griselda, then no God no.

 

I'm a big Amy fan, she's my favorite character on the show, so I hope you're right.

That's what I meant with my two examples before, she has stood up for herself and clearly stated her thoughts.

 

That's what I hope to see happening in S8.

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I guess I don't see their relationship being as "damaged" as some people do.  Are there issues there?  Sure.  Did Sheldon hurt her by mocking her wishes for their future and then leaving without saying goodbye?  I'm sure he did.  But I still think that Amy gets why he said those things to her.  That doesn't make them right, but I think she understands.  And from the sounds of it at the end of the finale, the two will keep in touch while he's gone.  So I'm hoping that they can kind of work out the issues so that things are better when he gets back.  I have no idea where the writers are going to go, and the fact that Amy is a "secondary" character makes it a bit harder for them to put the focus on the Shamy relationship that I think it deserves.  But I think the two of them will work things out.  Like I was saying in a private message earlier, I really think the writers want to tell a story that evolves Sheldon from the robot with no feelings who has no interest whatsoever in a relationship and is perfectly happy all on his own, to the more grown up man who has fallen in love with someone and ends up committing himself to her.  They've been giving us enough clues and (slow) progression to move it in that direction.  Yes, as an Amy/Shamy fan, it's difficult to watch sometimes, especially when it feels like Amy is getting the short end of the stick.  But I really think things will balance out again.  I think this is Sheldon's time to grow up and mature a bit, and hopefully he'll come back able to give more to his relationship.  Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part, but since they've admitted they're "growing" his character, I would think that would have to be a part of it.  Especially since I really believe Shamy is endgame and they plan to get them to a place where they're sleeping together and committed.  There definitely has to be relationship development in between there.  It may not be exactly what everyone wants.  There may not be a huge redemption for the way Amy's been treated.  Sheldon probably won't get on his knees and beg her forgiveness.  But I think as long as they're working through these things and Sheldon comes to a place where he's able to show her what she means to him, things will eventually fall into place.

 

Man, oh man, its like we share a brain sometimes...Agree 100%!!!

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End game isn't until 2017. There was a lot more wrong with the relationship in season 7 than the last out burst and the cowardly desertion. The kiss was a bandaid. Amy had seemed dissatisfied since the beginning of the season. A Xmas she had no idea if he felt anything for her...hurrah a screen saver. Valentine's day: if he hadn't enjoyed the kiss she might have broken up with him after the anti romance rant.

Sheldon left a relationship where his partner feels he prefers to confide in others before her, where the last words he said to her face mocked her desire for a loving future with him and the people she envied there closeness to him were the people who he said good bye and the people who aided him in ignoring her existence.

What can he say on the phone to erase those images and feelings? While she might intellectually understand why he said those things, why he felt he had to leave... Why she should she suppress her pain and on going loneliness for his glacial growth?

The writers have to be aware, watching Amy in pain is paying diminishing reruns in humor.

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I believe the kiss was at catalyst for change as well, what bothered me was Amy's reluctance to fully engage with the kisses. Like she was afraid to put to much stock in them or read too much into them. So rather than put her heart or pride at risk, she only responds passively, requesting a second kiss because it is something she is owed contracturially not because she has confidence he'll freely bestow it upon her.

Amy has become more and more fearful of Sheldon's rejection. Her weak suggestion of their perhaps living together at some future time, if necessary...maybe certainly lacked the giddy confidence and cheerful anticipation of her first offer. After that last rebuff, how likely is Amy to regain that level of confidence in Sheldon where she could happily suggest something that would benefit their relationship and feel that he might say yes?

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She wasn't manipulating him into anything

Amys words

"And if you don't like living alone, maybe you and I could live together"

Amy as an apparent equal in the relationship should be allowed to make suggestions regarding the future, Sheldon is incapable or doesnt want to make decisions it seems

Edited by rachelshamyfan
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Maybe that's where the writers are wanting them to go. Maybe when Sheldon gets back, he's going to have to finally learn the consequences of his actions. Maybe he'll see Amy pulling back and we all know that the true moth in this relationship is Sheldon and Amy the fire. He'll have no choice but to chase after her if he wants her to continue being in his life. And hopefully, Amy makes him work for it.

I also think he's just flat out scared to death of all these new feelings he has and when a child is scared, he lashes out.

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End game isn't until 2017. There was a lot more wrong with the relationship in season 7 than the last out burst and the cowardly desertion. The kiss was a bandaid. Amy had seemed dissatisfied since the beginning of the season. A Xmas she had no idea if he felt anything for her...hurrah a screen saver. Valentine's day: if he hadn't enjoyed the kiss she might have broken up with him after the anti romance rant.

Sheldon left a relationship where his partner feels he prefers to confide in others before her, where the last words he said to her face mocked her desire for a loving future with him and the people she envied there closeness to him were the people who he said good bye and the people who aided him in ignoring her existence.

What can he say on the phone to erase those images and feelings? While she might intellectually understand why he said those things, why he felt he had to leave... Why she should she suppress her pain and on going loneliness for his glacial growth?

The writers have to be aware, watching Amy in pain is paying diminishing reruns in humor.

 

I'm definitely not saying that Amy should have to suppress her pain or loneliness.  In fact, I would love for her to be able to tell him exactly how she feels about all of that.  And I would love for him to be open enough to actually listen to her and take that to heart.  What I'm hoping for is that the two of them will end up working through these things as Sheldon matures, just like Penny and Leonard worked through their issues.

 

I just think that because we're all so invested in these characters and this relationship, that sometimes we read too much into certain things.  It does feel kind of odd that Amy doesn't put more into the kisses they share, and that she doesn't wrap her arms around him, etc.  I think the one on the train took her by surprise and she didn't know how to react.  The second one I have no excuse for, although it looks to me like she enjoys it and does kiss him back, however weakly that may be.  I can see that maybe they're trying to play this like her confidence is fading, or maybe it's just her way of letting him take control of the new situation for the time being while he gets used to the change.

 

Your comment above about the state Sheldon left the relationship in does resonate with me as well, but with them hitting that low, I can see how things can now be built back up.  Sheldon left.  He broke down.  He's changing.  He's growing.  He will be the same person, but he will also come back different.  Molaro even stated this.  So once things have hit a low point and that character has time to figure things out and grow up a little, I can see him coming back stronger, and I can see the relationship growing stronger.  Could it go the opposite?  Absolutely.  But I can't imagine that happening with the clues they've been throwing us at the end of this season, that he needs to commit to her and she's the key to his happiness.  And then the living together suggestion comes up again.  One thing right after the next.  And all of those things are going to be on his mind while he's gone.  And every one of them speaks of a new level of comittment between them. 

 

Yes, endgame is in 2017, which gives us three years.  The writers know they have 3 years to get this relationship to where they want it to be at the end.  And how many of the episodes in each season are going to be focused on Shamy?  So I would think they would need to start steering this in the right direction soon.  I still think it's going to take some time, but I'm fairly confident they'll get there.

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I don't see Amy's suggestion as manipulation so much as a misjudgment. I don't think she wants to trick Sheldon into doing anything he doesn't want to do. In that moment where he was already stressed out, it was a mistake to bring it up, but it came from a genuine place, I think. But I agree with what Phanta said: Sheldon isn't a terrible person for not making decisions he's not yet ready to make or for freaking out and leaving. It was wrong of him to mock her, but I think that will get resolved. I think he secretly wants those things, too. And I've never seen their relationship as damaged, either. With these two people, they're bound to run into some major hurdles, even moreso than other couples. It's just a rift they've hit. They'll get through it.


Amy right now is several steps ahead of Sheldon in terms of where they want to be so hopefully s8 will see Sheldon catch up

 

I would like to see Sheldon catch up and maybe even get a couple steps ahead of her. :p Not sure if it will happen, but I would love a role-reversal, haha.

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I still don't see that Sheldon did anything to Amy in that scene in her apartment except to reject her attempt to manipulate him into the idea of them living together.  If she really wanted to talk calmly and seriously about the possibility of them living together, trying to slip it in among her comments about Leonard was not a mature way to do it, especially since she knew that Sheldon was already jangling on his last nerve.

 

While she backed off right away with her "it was just a thought", she was actually taking advantage of the moment.  She's feeding him all this stuff to try to reinforce the idea that living with Leonard was dissatisfying, and then she tries to slip in her real agenda.  If she were truly concerned with his emotional state, she would have just let him vent.  And her comments about Leonard, if they were sincere, might have helped him accept the prospect of maybe living on his own.  If she had stopped there, she might have actually helped him--and herself in the long run.  But because she couldn't resist the temptation to once again suggest the two of them living together--when she already knows how he feels about it--she only managed to pile onto his already agitated state.

That he felt pushed to the brink and replied sarcastically toward her is not so much a measure of the state of their relationship as it was a measure of the level of his stress, which she had just contributed to.

 

 

 

It's an interesting thought. I definitely slapped my own forehead when the dreaded 'moving in' bogey hove into view.

 

Do I think that Amy is incapable of manipulating Sheldon? Of course not, and in fact watching her do it is a complicated pleasure for me. Do I think that that was what she was doing in that scene? (tilts head) not consciously, I think. But Amy IS throwing herself into what she thinks is Ideal Girlfriend behaviour: stroking her man's ego, catering to his every whim, making 'I know, dear, isn't it dreadful?' noises, even when she doesn't agree- and, in fact, we've seen that she doesn't always agree. So she may not be being manipulative, but she IS masking or, worse, sublimating her own personality and desires to get what she thinks she wants, which surely is just as problematic.

 

 

While it may be true that he could stand to apologize for his sarcasm in rejecting the idea of living together, I don't think he needs to apologize for not being ready to take that step.  And I don't think he needs to apologize for not being ready for intimacy or maybe not even being yet able to say "I love you."

 

 

I'm on record as saying that, though I think that Sheldon is a nightmare as a boyfriend, I've usually been on his side when it comes to big relationship moments, including the Valentine's Day kiss. And I absolutely definitely agree with him about the moving in. I think it's interesting that Amy keeps harping on it without any idea of what sort of commitment it actually involves, or whether she's ready for something like that. I'd love for Sheldon to initiate moving-in, and for Amy to realise that she is not ready at all.

 

 

But for all of their inequalities and missteps, I don't think they're in a damaged or painful place.  She may be running ahead and he might be dragging his feet, but they're still on the course together.

 

 

 

Ah, see, there I don't know. I wonder, sometimes, if I am meant to root for these two to wind up together. They don't seem to enjoy each other anymore, and a lot of that, I think, comes from, yes, mismatched expectations, but also inexperience. Amy and Sheldon are both stuck with desires they can't examine or handle (or that the writer can't examine or handle), and they're taking it out on each other.

 

 

 

As I've said before, if the shoe were on the other foot and he was trying to manipulate her to go further than she was ready for, plying her with candlelight dinners and pressing for her to be intimate or to move in, and she was the one saying she wasn't ready for intimacy and didn't want to live with him, would anyone be saying that poor Sheldon was in pain and suffering and that Amy needed to "grow up" and give in?

 

 

Heh, I've already aired my views on this, and I think I properly set the cat among the pigeons. I think it's getting stressful on the show because Amy's mired only in 'Poor Sad Horny Unfulfilled Amy' storylines. I'd like Amy to get more non-Sheldon storylines, and for her to rediscover her eccentric, venturesome joie de vivre.

 

ETA: The first quote on your profile is from The Lion in Winter, isn't it? (sighs in memory of Peter O'Toole)

Edited by wowbagger
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Phanta, I am convinced. Clearly everything wrong in the relationship is Amy's fault for failing to nurture Sheldon's inner spirit butterfly, while not fully being the dutiful, asexual and patient science geisha that expected her to be when he drafted the relationship agreement. That he, through the greatness and Christ-like goodness of his heart agreed to amend so he would be spared her bitching.

 

The fact that she is lonely with her currently living arrangement and has said so... That's no concern of Sheldon's. That fact that Sheldon fears being lonely in his future living arrangement... Amy will NOT  draw a conclusion that those two situations could help solve each other. Amy accepts she will be alone, perhaps forever. And she is fine with that.

 

Most of all, Amy is happy when Sheldon is happy. If Sheldon is happy on his Hobo Vision Quest. Then no matter what the status of the their relationship, there is no reason Amy won't open the season deliriously delighted with life and the fact that she is now the group's Raj.

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Phanta, I am convinced. Clearly everything wrong in the relationship is Amy's fault for failing to nurture Sheldon's inner spirit butterfly, while not fully being the dutiful, asexual and patient science geisha that expected her to be when he drafted the relationship agreement. That he, through the greatness and Christ-like goodness of his heart agreed to amend so he would be spared her bitching.

 

The fact that she is lonely with her currently living arrangement and has said so... That's no concern of Sheldon's. That fact that Sheldon fears being lonely in his future living arrangement... Amy will NOT  draw a conclusion that those two situations could help solve each other. Amy accepts she will be alone, perhaps forever. And she is fine with that.

 

Most of all, Amy is happy when Sheldon is happy. If Sheldon is happy on his Hobo Vision Quest. Then no matter what the status of the their relationship, there is no reason Amy won't open the season deliriously delighted with life and the fact that she is now the group's Raj.

 

oh brother.

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Phanta, I am convinced. Clearly everything wrong in the relationship is Amy's fault for failing to nurture Sheldon's inner spirit butterfly, while not fully being the dutiful, asexual and patient science geisha that expected her to be when he drafted the relationship agreement. That he, through the greatness and Christ-like goodness of his heart agreed to amend so he would be spared her bitching.

 

The fact that she is lonely with her currently living arrangement and has said so... That's no concern of Sheldon's. That fact that Sheldon fears being lonely in his future living arrangement... Amy will NOT  draw a conclusion that those two situations could help solve each other. Amy accepts she will be alone, perhaps forever. And she is fine with that.

 

Most of all, Amy is happy when Sheldon is happy. If Sheldon is happy on his Hobo Vision Quest. Then no matter what the status of the their relationship, there is no reason Amy won't open the season deliriously delighted with life and the fact that she is now the group's Raj.

 

Maybe you should go over to the Lenny thread for a few days, they also like to vent about the Evil Sheldon.

 

I'm not saying he is perfect or right in his choices atm, but you really seem to have a narrow vision on what's happening.

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Phanta,

 

I barely took it farther than you do.

 

Amy is constantly at fault for manipulating Sheldon. She fails to take things at pace he is comfortable with. When she attempts to move faster, when she looks out for her own desires, she betraying what their relationship was based on. Which I supposed is asexuality and Sheldon's needs.

 

She only arranged the train trip because she wanted romance, slippery bitch. She manipulated him into not breaking up with him, instead of having a long painful drawn out discussion, with crying (because perhaps she had shit to do that day), she dared to offer in a possible alternative in the future that she brought up almost an year and half ago.

 

For crying out loud... why won't she stop talking about that? Why's she got to bring it up every 15-21 months? Clearly he had a right to be cruel and whiney to her.

 

What she should learn from that is never to bring anything up to him. She'll never know what will make him run.

 

If she just accepts him running away like that, accepts that she deserves to be spoken to like that for quietly expressing hersel, then that's what she deserves. Actually, I couldn't agree more.

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Phanta,

 

I barely took it farther than you do.

 

Amy is constantly at fault for manipulating Sheldon. She fails to take things at pace he is comfortable with. When she attempts to move faster, when she looks out for her own desires, she betraying what their relationship was based on. Which I supposed is asexuality and Sheldon's needs.

 

She only arranged the train trip because she wanted romance, slippery bitch. She manipulated him into not breaking up with him, instead of having a long painful drawn out discussion, with crying (because perhaps she had shit to do that day), she dared to offer in a possible alternative in the future that she brought up almost an year and half ago.

 

For crying out loud... why won't she stop talking about that? Why's she got to bring it up every 15-21 months? Clearly he had a right to be cruel and whiney to her.

 

What she should learn from that is never to bring anything up to him. She'll never know what will make him run.

 

If she just accepts him running away like that, accepts that she deserves to be spoken to like that for quietly expressing hersel, then that's what she deserves. Actually, I couldn't agree more.

 

I think you're reading into it a lot more than the writers have intended or than Mayim actually has played in text or subtext.

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Chiany, I am rejecting the idea, that Amy has to accept whatever treatment she's given. That doesn't help either of them. Sheldon can grow much stronger if Amy stands up to him. And yes, distracts him occasionally from less productive distractions. Sheldon does better, when he treats Amy well. It makes him happier too.

 

When he's able to blame others for his problems, it makes him a weaker character.

 

Sheldon can be an awesome character. And I don't believe he is actually evil, or big evil. He's too big and dumb at heart (which is why itchy sweater doesn't exsist in my head canon)

 

And I was being sarcastic.

Edited by Chaliceinnana
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I guess I don't see their relationship being as "damaged" as some people do. Are there issues there? Sure. Did Sheldon hurt her by mocking her wishes for their future and then leaving without saying goodbye? I'm sure he did. But I still think that Amy gets why he said those things to her. That doesn't make them right, but I think she understands. And from the sounds of it at the end of the finale, the two will keep in touch while he's gone. So I'm hoping that they can kind of work out the issues so that things are better when he gets back. I have no idea where the writers are going to go, and the fact that Amy is a "secondary" character makes it a bit harder for them to put the focus on the Shamy relationship that I think it deserves. But I think the two of them will work things out. Like I was saying in a private message earlier, I really think the writers want to tell a story that evolves Sheldon from the robot with no feelings who has no interest whatsoever in a relationship and is perfectly happy all on his own, to the more grown up man who has fallen in love with someone and ends up committing himself to her. They've been giving us enough clues and (slow) progression to move it in that direction. Yes, as an Amy/Shamy fan, it's difficult to watch sometimes, especially when it feels like Amy is getting the short end of the stick. But I really think things will balance out again. I think this is Sheldon's time to grow up and mature a bit, and hopefully he'll come back able to give more to his relationship. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part, but since they've admitted they're "growing" his character, I would think that would have to be a part of it. Especially since I really believe Shamy is endgame and they plan to get them to a place where they're sleeping together and committed. There definitely has to be relationship development in between there. It may not be exactly what everyone wants. There may not be a huge redemption for the way Amy's been treated. Sheldon probably won't get on his knees and beg her forgiveness. But I think as long as they're working through these things and Sheldon comes to a place where he's able to show her what she means to him, things will eventually fall into place.

Well put! Im glad you said what I was thinking.

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If we had any indication that Amy's feelings or personal journey were of equal importance to Sheldon's, I might be inclined to agree. But nothing that has been said, nothing that happened in season 7 would indicate that Season 8 will address Sheldon and Amy's relationship as again being one of equality.

 

Chances are she's not getting a good apology, she's not getting her Sheldon scene until the second episode he's home and no one mentions anything about her summer except that she sulked.

 

The only hope I really have is that unless a scene is actually in the can, what Molaro says and what end up on screen are usually very dissimilar.

 

Sorry, I  am an Amy fan. I am tired of watching my girl get nothing. She got nothing out of Sheldon's proton revelation. She's gotten no benefit thus far from the physic. Just a pissy boyfriend talking a powder and smug bestie telling her it's for the best. Amy could use a win as bad as Sheldon.

 

I wish I could tell you you're wrong but I'm afraid I can't. I can't eally say that I am either a Sheldon or an Amy fan, BUT I must say that the way the story telling is skewed so much in Sheldon's favor doesn't make for good story telling. Even if Amy is considered a secondary character (by the writers) if the story of Shamy was told from a more balanced point of view everybody (including the Sheldon charcater) would benefit from it. I am vehemently opposed to having Amy not be as strong as she used to be, and as I have said many times TBBT is lucky that Mayim plays her, because I do belive that she elevates the material she's given to work with.

Well, as some Lenny's said in their thread, it sometimes start to feel that Sheldon is the only main character and the others are all supporting roles.

 

And I can see where they are coming from. The focus of most storylines will be Sheldon, or he will at least be involved in them.

Guess it really depends on what they have planned for his character, and which part of his changing life they want to address first.

 

I am a Lenny and I agree with what you're saying. From a balancing of story telling perspective Season 7 was uneven IMHO. I most certainly want to see Sheldon grow, and would love for his and Amy's relationship to be more balanced, but most of all I would prefer that they give the stories more time to breathe. What I have noticed lately is that they try to cram an A, B and C plot in the 20 mins, and it feels rushed. I'd prefer that they do only 2 plots and hint at a third, and take that up in the next episode. When it was only 5 regulars they were able to that to a larger extent, but now with 7 (and possibly 8 according to what happens with Emily) it's much harder to fit everybody in such limited amount of time. Hope they "spray it around" more as it will be in everybody's best interest. 

Edited by Carlos
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