Spoilers The Shamy - Season 7 Spoilers Only Discussion Thread

[bigbangsheldon]

i'm guessing it's a spank or something.

called it.

[Lionne]

Funny story. I decided to Google the topic, and first thing to pop up was this:

 

Sexism is slapping Miss Palin on the ass and telling her to make a ham sandwich and make it quick.

 

Good to know what the top definition of sexism is. And no, Sheldon slapping Amy on the ass and telling her to fetch him and Mike a beer is totally different. It's not a sandwich, Lio!

 

Cod. Sandwiches are on the floor. The sandwiches are us.

[HollyAndOatmeal]

Why are you taking it so seriously, Lionne?  Why does it have such a negative hold on you?

[Chaliceinnana]

It's her personal issue, of course. However, if that's the type of woman that Amy becomes, i reserve the right to have zero respect for her, and switch over to the Shenny shipping team. That's how offensive I find it.

 

The only "good" spot here is that I don't really think it's going to change anything, just like the Fish Guts spanking did. The controversary over that and over this is pretty much identical. Some people really have no issue with that at all, some people find it rather degrading to Amy's character. In particular, it seems to suggest that Amy is so desperate that she'll take anything with a sexual overtone to it. She won't be picky about it - whatever will happen, whether it's a spanking or a bath or anything else, that has Sheldon touching her is good with her.

 

That's not really something I respect, nor do I have to. If isn't real life people and their real life kinks - it's a character being shown up on screen, how she is being written and how she's being portrayed. If I feel that her portrayal isn't realistically feminine, and keeps falling into the hands of a team of Old Boy's Club, misogynistic writing, that's my call. 

You would really start shipping a woman too stupid to realize her marriage was legal? According to taping reports for the next few weeks, she can't use a hot glue gun, she is starting to take the crappy waitress thing to its zenith and she doesn't know that weddings chapels are there to legally marry people. She also enjoys a good strip club buffet. She is still open to marrying for money! Yes. Penny is the standard of feminism! 

 

Whatever Amy enjoys in private or among friends, she is a player in her field, she can Sheldon in his place and he knows who put him there. I really don't think this is the start of "get me a beer, woman," as relationship feature.

 

And if at some point, Sheldon's ass gets slapped by a drunken Amy, she calls him her cabana boy and orders wine for all her bitches... I bet he doesn't say shit either.

[HollyAndOatmeal]

It's supposed to be funny!  Don't take it so seriously!  Now get those knickers out of a knot and go fetch a beer for someone!

[Razberrypie]

It's her personal issue, of course. However, if that's the type of woman that Amy becomes, i reserve the right to have zero respect for her, and switch over to the Shenny shipping team. That's how offensive I find it.

 

The only "good" spot here is that I don't really think it's going to change anything, just like the Fish Guts spanking did. The controversary over that and over this is pretty much identical. Some people really have no issue with that at all, some people find it rather degrading to Amy's character. In particular, it seems to suggest that Amy is so desperate that she'll take anything with a sexual overtone to it. She won't be picky about it - whatever will happen, whether it's a spanking or a bath or anything else, that has Sheldon touching her is good with her.

 

That's not really something I respect, nor do I have to. If isn't real life people and their real life kinks - it's a character being shown up on screen, how she is being written and how she's being portrayed. If I feel that her portrayal isn't realistically feminine, and keeps falling into the hands of a team of Old Boy's Club, misogynistic writing, that's my call. 

 

 Defining what is realisitically "feminine" is and saying Amy should adhere to these rules is a very second-wave feminist idea. I want to see women of all shapes, colours, and personalities portrayed on TV and I don't want to see them limited by a rule book. If men are allowed to act a certain way on TV then women should be too. I understand that Sheldon's "get me a beer" behaviour is sexist but putting Amy down for liking it doesn't sound like my idea of feminism, it's basically forcing her into an "ideal" stereotype that isn't realistic at all. She is allowed to like whatever she wants.

[Lionne]

It's supposed to be funny!  Don't take it so seriously!  Now get those knickers out of a knot and go fetch a beer for someone!

 

Congrats! You're dead now!

[Chaliceinnana]

It's supposed to be funny!  Don't take it so seriously!  Now get those knickers out of a knot and go fetch a beer for someone!

Or have them fetch one for you. It depends on who is headed to the kitchen.

 

Or whose leg is broken.

 

Frame in the form of a request and then say please.

 

You aren't drunk Sheldon.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Chaliceinnana

[Susana Alcira]

Sheldon is drunk, and he is enjoying his bond with Mike. He sees Mike like his father was, a strong man who likes sports , guns, beers, a really manly man. I think Sheldon wanted to show Mike that he is a really a man too, who has a real woman in his life. Remember the Wil Wheaton episode, with the iced tea. A drunk Sheldon refers Amy as MY WOMAN! But it does not seem that he will treat her badly in the future. He really has strong and deep feelings for AMY, in the good way. HE WAS DRUNK!!!!!!!!     I WANT TO SEE THE WHOLE EPISODE!

[Lionne]

Why are you taking it so seriously, Lionne?  Why does it have such a negative hold on you?

 

Because it's classic misogynism and sexism and a shockingly high number of people have absolutely no issue with it whatsoever.

 

It's a "what is the world coming to?" kind of thing.

 

And, oh, Penny doesn't get any better treatment this episode, either. But I've ranted about that in the Leonard/Penny thread.

 

Simply a massive dumbing down and mistreatment of the female character on both fronts.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Lionne

[HollyAndOatmeal]

Or have them fetch one for you. It depends on who is headed to the kitchen.

 

Or whose leg is broken.

 

Frame in the form of a request and then say please.

 

You aren't drunk Sheldon.

Nah, I fetch my own beers.  I'm a feminist.  Making my wife fetch me a beer is just plain rude.

 

Because it's classic misogynism and sexism and a shockingly high number of people have absolutely no issue with it whatsoever.

 

It's a "what is the world coming to?" kind of thing.

It's supposed to be a joke though.  Just because you don't find it funny doesn't mean others won't.  Some people have a broad sense of humour, others don't.  And just because we find it funny doesn't make us "in the wrong" or whatever.

 

WHERE'S MY BEER

Edited November 7, 2013 by HollyAndOatmeal

[Lionne]

It's supposed to be a joke though.  Just because you don't find it funny doesn't mean others won't.  Some people have a broad sense of humour, others don't.  And just because we find it funny doesn't make us "in the wrong" or whatever.

 

WHERE'S MY BEER

 

Like...the guys who dressed up like Trayvon and his killer for Halloween? Or the woman who dressed up like a victim of the Boston Marathon? Or the women who dressed up as the Twin Towers? Or the woman who put her child into a KKK costume?

 

I heard they all felt that was just a joke! Totally HILARIOUS.

 

Or is that too broad?

 

I'm aware that tastes and such differ. I just think it's kinda interesting that even Disgusted is currently pointing out that Shamy shippers seem to lack feminist chops.

 

Seriously? Sad.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Lionne

[Razberrypie]

Seriously though, people here are just different types of feminists. Some people think women should set examples of how to follow the rules and discipline bad behaviour even if it doesn't bother them personally, so men will finally learn because they can't figure it out for themselves and society will finally begin to clean itself up. Others just think women shouldn't have to be burdened with the responsibility if they don't want to and have the freedom to do whatever the frickety frack they want and not be judged for it if they're not harming anyone. It's not anything to despair about, the world is not coming to an end because we have different ideas.

[Chaliceinnana]

Because it's classic misogynism and sexism and a shockingly high number of people have absolutely no issue with it whatsoever.

 

It's a "what is the world coming to?" kind of thing.

 

And, oh, Penny doesn't get any better treatment this episode, either. But I've ranted about that in the Leonard/Penny thread.

 

Simply a massive dumbing down and mistreatment of the female character on both fronts.

I did have an issue with it actually. I re-read it a few times before I could reassure myself that there was no malice on Sheldon's part and Amy didn't take it badly. I also I am giving him a little leeway for his drunken daddy bonding session with Mike.

 

If this had happened at work and it had been another man, I am sure she would lobotomize the pig with a drinking straw. And whose to say if Sheldon pulls this again, he'll get away with it? Amy was super surprised. She may pull out the agreement and ask for clarification about beverage retrieval requests.

[Disgusted]

. I just think it's kinda interesting that even Disgusted is currently pointing out that Shamy shippers seem to lack feminist chops.

 

 

 

Don't drag me into this. Right now you are you and you are screwed.

 

Edited November 7, 2013 by Disgusted

[koops]

I'll say more about this later (because CODDAMIT I HATE ALL OF YOU AND MYSELF FOR MAKING ME BREAK MY SPOILER VIRGINITY!) and I don't have much time now, but I just wanted to say that while the joke itself might be controversial and inappropriate and offensive (like many others in the past, sexist and racist, which this show unfortunately loves to make from time to time), I honestly don't think the writers are intending to send a message that these women aren't strong women or that they don't deserve respect. I think the writers write these women as very strong characters 99% of the time, and Amy herself bossed a DRUNK Sheldon into APOLOGIZING (Sheldon - apologizing) just a moment before. While they might fall into the Chuck Lorre sexist joke every once in a while, it doesn't take away from all the other times where these women have shown their brilliance and strength. This is one of the few shows where every single woman has an awful lot going for her, can whip their SO's butt in more ways than one and where gender is often flipped between the characters. Same thing with the guys. They are occasionally shown as total wimps, or whipped by their ladies, but that is in no way "demasculinization" and it doesn't take away from the brilliance of these men either.

 

While I personally wasn't a fan of the spanking (and I have less of a problem with this scene than the spanking, personally, but I'll see how it comes out on screen), I just don't think two scenes over three and a half seasons deprive Amy's character of all her brilliance and intelligence. Or that it does so for their relationship. I personally saw the scene as Sheldon trying to flirt in a totally inappropriate way without realizing how sexist he was because his dad is the only reference he has. And Amy being flattered because she saw beyond the sexist sentence to the intent behind it, which is Sheldon trying to flirt with her. And was flattered by the fact that he was trying to flirt with her. That is the way I interpreted all that smiling that seemed to be going on between them. It's like the Cooper Coupon and we are Penny: Penny is all "She doesn't want your stupid coupons!" and we are all "OMG Amy that is so sexist!" but Amy is all "Oh he's trying to apologize and make amends!" or "Oh he is trying to flirt with me!". Because, at the end of the day, we KNOW Sheldon isn't sexist with her or at all, intentionally, and we KNOW she doesn't take any crap from him when it matters (She slammed the door in his face just 2 episodes ago when she could have simply swooned at his antics and she bossed him into an apology right before this).

 

That's why I don't really feel comfortable saying that Amy isn't half the respectable woman we think she is just because of this one instance. But I can see why it can offend someone. I personally don't particularly enjoy this kind of humor, but I try to remember all the other times where the show has actually been anything but sexist and racist and inappropriate. Because there are lots. The unfortunate thing is that these are the kind of scenes that stick with people, rather than, say, 6x18, where Sheldon was a perfect role model for gender equality.  

[HollyAndOatmeal]

Are you speaking of my taping report? I assume you're not because that's totally not what I wrote (implied). LOL...about the body language.

Was this ever answered, MJ?

[MJistheBOMB]

Don't drag me into this. Right now you are you and you are screwed.

 

That was a good one actually. LOL!

[HollyAndOatmeal]

I love how Koops said "...and I don't have much time now..." yet still managed to get out 3 paragraphs.  Nice one! Hahaha

[Lionne]

Don't drag me into this. Right now you are you and you are screwed.

 

 

Then keep your mouth shut, D! Don't go spouting off your opinion and then try to act like you haven't weighed in!

 

Silly Disgusted. Push more popcorn in there; that'll keep your mouth occupied.

 

In any case, here's the thing I'm perfectly aware of: there will be no consequences for this on the show. This is a single, one off joke, and it's just this particular misogynistic joke which I take offense to. Overall, I'm perfectly aware that the portrayal of Amy's character is going to stay about where it has been for this season. That doesn't really mean that this particular joke wasn't sexist - classically so. It's the same as with the situation with Penny - how OOC are things going to go over there for the sake of the joke before it's just ridiculous? How come the Penny who used to make Penny Blossoms so efficiently can't handle a glue gun now? Mixing up crafts with her alcohol this time, or am I just supposed to believe there's been a personality transplant?

 

Or sorry, it's just FUNNY.

 

Like the day I learned to stop worrying and love the atom bomb.

[TexasBelle]

Whoa whoa whoa. Let's not bring Texas into this. Y'all need to slow your horses. It was a just a playful gesture and nothing more. To me it was cute and not demeaning in any way. It was not malicious nor was there any intent to harm behind it.

Amy was hardly submissive. She had just demanded Sheldon apologize and he did it with no questions asked. That's a big deal. Drunk or not. Then he playfully smacks her butt and asks for a beer. How could you blame her for liking it? To me, in that scene (and the whole episode), she's wearing the pants and calling the shots. That's not submissive at all.

[HollyAndOatmeal]

Everyone calm yo tits.

It's too fun and easy to get under some folks skin around here.   

Whoa whoa whoa. Let's not bring Texas into this. Y'all need to slow your horses. It was a just a playful gesture and nothing more. To me it was cute and not demeaning in any way. It was not malicious nor was there any intent to harm behind it.

Amy was hardly submissive. She had just demanded Sheldon apologize and he did it with no questions asked. That's a big deal. Drunk or not. Then he playfully smacks her butt and asks for a beer. How could you blame her for liking it? To me, in that scene (and the whole episode), she's wearing the pants and calling the shots. That's not submissive at all.

Yes, but some people take it VERY seriously when a guy such as Sheldon slaps a bum such as Amy's.  The world is getting dumber because of it too.  It's a tragedy all around really.

[smellypooper73]

Wow, who'da thunk one ass slap would spur such a heated discussion? Oh wait, forgot which thread I was in for a moment...

I personally like the little nod the writers are giving to the show's very early beginnings. In at least 2 dimensions, Sheldon is an ass man.

[Maddie]

I think it's only offensive to women uf they allow it to be. Most women these days are fiesty and empowered enough to not view something like an ass slap as offensive if it's in a trusting relationship. We dont live in an era anymore where men "keep their women in line." If anything, the roles have reversed.

[Chaliceinnana]

Then keep your mouth shut, D! Don't go spouting off your opinion and then try to act like you haven't weighed in!

 

Silly Disgusted. Push more popcorn in there; that'll keep your mouth occupied.

 

In any case, here's the thing I'm perfectly aware of: there will be no consequences for this on the show. This is a single, one off joke, and it's just this particular misogynistic joke which I take offense to. Overall, I'm perfectly aware that the portrayal of Amy's character is going to stay about where it has been for this season. That doesn't really mean that this particular joke wasn't sexist - classically so. It's the same as with the situation with Penny - how OOC are things going to go over there for the sake of the joke before it's just ridiculous? How come the Penny who used to make Penny Blossoms so efficiently can't handle a glue gun now? Mixing up crafts with her alcohol this time, or am I just supposed to believe there's been a personality transplant?

 

Or sorry, it's just FUNNY.

 

Like the day I learned to stop worrying and love the atom bomb.

I know. I actually am with you on a lot of that.

 

This is one little thing with Amy...

 

Penny is veering all over bad girl friend land. And she isn't even drinking that much this season. Bernadette has only had 2 episodes where she hasn't been an active shrew...

 

In comparison, even putting up with the public ass slap, Amy looks sensational.