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The Shamy - Season 7 Spoilers Only Discussion Thread

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Ok, I need to give my latest thoughts before I forget. 

 

Starting from meg's premise....

 

We can speculate that Sheldon has indeed been aware of Amy's sex jokes and that, combined with his "working on it" (which we know from last season, 6x23, the hackey sack, the book on control and so on), they have been putting a lot of pressure on him, as he probably has on himself. I kind of wonder whether they are constant reminders to him of how much he is *not* giving her, which might be pretty stressful for him on top of everything else. 

 

Now, this is the first time Amy has been made aware of the fact that she might be pressuring him. And this is the first time Sheldon has been made aware that he needs to give a little. Both agreed with Raj and both did not deny Raj was right about their flaws. They just reacted like it hit too close to home. 

 

 

Really like Koop's Idea and meg's. Hoping you guys are right. :)

I really want shamy to have another talk about these issues or a performance report!haha

I think it would be interesting if Amy did step back, or even if she said okay lets postpone physical contact to take any 'pressure' sheldon might be feeling away. Maybe they could have a few episodes with their relationship without any physical contact, sheldon could be seen to be a bit happier but then maybe not so pleased. What if from this lack of contact/pressure Sheldon begins to miss it, then crave it. Even go so far as to initiate it himself? 

:dancer: 

 

Edited by ShamyVixen
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Hello everyone! I'm Meg. Some of you probably know me from the other forum. I was quickly convinced by a dear friend to get with the times and come over here with you lovely people. For those that don't know me, it's nice to meet you! I live in Germany (though painfully not German), study psychology like it's my religion (the kind of religion that never ends...I'm pretty certain I'll be buried with a psychology book), and most importantly, I have been obsessed with Shamy for years and must occasionally use walls of text to convey my feelings, otherwise I will die (It's true...I've checked into it.). 

 

Anyway, just reading the last couple of pages, I'm happy to see that many here are optimistic (at least a bit) about current developments. This is a rough one, because in a relationship that's been written so vaguely, so much is left up to personal interpretation. When past developments are considered (especially regarding Sheldon) I think that whether any of us think this last scene was ultimately good or bad, we can probably all agree that it's harsh and direct, which is not what we're used to seeing with Shamy. Most of you already know what I think. I think that this means movement is coming. (Disclaimer: I've said that before and have been wrong so I claim to be no expert on movement here). Logic dictates that when an issue is put out in the open, as this has been thanks to Sheldon's outburst,  it must be dealt with, one way or another. That could be forward or backward movement, or it could mean that the writers choke again and decide to forget the whole thing. If they do, I'm concerned that we're going to get more of the same in the physical progress report department, which has been zilch this season.When the writers used Raj this way with Leonard and Penny, the biggest issue that they had at the time was out on the table, and it was soon dealt with by the writers in a way that moved them forward and made everyone happy. My hope is that they will stick to that formula here (and it makes sense to me that they would). If so, this moment could end up being pivotal. Either way, I know that I'm going to be  watching all future episodes carefully and with one eyebrow constantly raised (and a Red Cross medical team on standby just in case).

 

(Again, hello and so nice to be here!)  :)  

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I kinda feel like we are missing out though on seeing the off screen stuff that's been mentioned

Good thing about it though is that Sheldon likes hugs even on hot days

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All I will say, as I am still reeling from yesterday, is we better get one hell of a Shamy season finale.

 

I hope we get a good one before that, working towards a great season finale.

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In all this flurry of negativity over that scene, I would like us not to forget about all the other Shamy-related adorableness in this episode.

 

1) The Fab 4 having dinner together at the apartment. Do I need to mention how much of a sucker I am for the 4 besties hanging out?

 

2) The fact that Amy went and hunted down her enemy, Wil Wheaton, to cheer Sheldon up. And that Sheldon kicked Wil out of the room because he just did not know how to play trains with him the way Amy did. Cue probably long evening of Shamy hanging out playing with trains in his room.

 

3) The fact that Shamy are coming back from work together. Which means Amy is still working at Caltech, and they are riding to work together now. Even more time spent together.

 

4) The way Amy suggested the walk as if it's a casual thing makes me think it might be something they do now. Which gives me all sorts of warm fuzzy feelings. 

 

Some positive thoughts for you today...

I think this is important, because it offers some perspective. Just these facts (in this one episode alone) show that Sheldon and Amy's relationship is still true to and strong in the fundamental characteristics that has defined it all along. Just these four examples give a progress report on shared activities, emotional, and intellectual understanding (which are hallmarks of intimacy in general). The physical barrier that they have with intimacy is a function of underlying individual issues and sheer inexperience in communicating feelings regarding something as foreign to both of them as physical intimacy. They need to get better at this, and I think they will because it's one of the only things in their relationship that they aren't excelling in yet. Actually, I see this all of this (the more negative scene included) as the result of them growing much closer. You just can't jump up the intimacy ladder, and for Sheldon, bridging the divide between emotional/intellectual and physical intimacy might require the step of getting his feelings on this issue out there first (which he did oh so recklessly, but still). My point is that  they wouldn't be this far along (although many would argue it's not far enough for what we've seen) if the groundwork wasn't laid with examples like the ones Koops gives above. 

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The other thing is, we know Sheldon seems to have sex on the brain right now. He did slap her butt only last episode in a way that Moyra apparently said is indeed flirtatious. And he associates going for a walk with sex. But it is only when he is drunk or angry (i.e. his control is down) that the cat comes out of the bag. Last year he needed to be drunk to openly express his feelings for her, this year it's sex.

And I think we assume Amy is more mature in dealing with this whole situation than she really is. But physical intimacy is her Achilles heel. Like Lio pointed out last week, she is mature and assertive up to the moment he gives her some physical affection, and then crumbles. Last year she acted extremely immaturely pretending to be sick for the same reason: she craves physical affection and will take it any way she can.

I think it is time we face the truth that Amy has flaws and weaknesses. Physical affection is her weakness. And one of her flaws is her inability to let things go. Just look at how she holds onto anger/sadness when she gets mad at someone, or how she would not stop with the innuendos at Penny. She might not mean it, or not realize how they come across, but they might affect the people around her (sounds like anyone else we know, btw?).

We were talking in chat last night about how Amy and Sheldon's disconnect on the issue of sex is that they both have a polar opposite, irrational approach to it. Amy is way too much of an optimist, she has idealized notions of romance and sex and doesn't really know what she is talking about, and indeed when faced with the real deal she freezes up. Or hyperventilates, even in her own fantasies. Which are so innocent for someone with so many sex comments. Sheldon is the opposite. All he sees is negatives, fears, anxieties, germs and sweat and saliva and losing control. Given her comments he might feel that if he gives her a inch she will take a mile. But he ignores all the good stuff that might come with moving forward. It's like the Spoiler Alert thing all over again. She jumps in without thinking, he freezes and panics. So, yes, Kaplan is spot on: there's a lot of "mind reading" that is assumed by both here. She told him she wants "more" but didn't really tell him that "more" means. He told her he hasn't "ruled it out" but he hasn't told her he is actively working on it and what his fears are like he did with Penny.

Now, I'm aware that this is a lot of analysis and the general audience unfortunately will not get it. They will see her as the sex starved one that puts up with Sheldon's crap and gets shot down all the time. And that is partly true, but it seems like the writers want to take that route unfortunately. The only worry I have right now is: is this a way to set up a bit of a shake-up in the relationship, like we discussed, or is this a way for the writers to put the blame for their unwillingness and inability to move Sheldon forward on Amy? If this is just another ploy to slow things down even further, I don't know how long I will keep caring, because I honestly don't know how much further Amy can back off before she backs off right out the door. But if this is the end of her sex jokes and the start of the flame going to the moth, then Halleluja!

 

eta: Sorry I keep editing this post but I keep coming up with things I want to say. @dessert, I picked up on that line (well, the theme of the whole episode really) too, but I don't interpret it in terms of a breakup. I don't think Shamy will break up over this one thing, because every single episode this season we have seen them be closer than ever before and happier than ever before. They have this one giant tweepodok in the room that they can't keep ignoring though. The problem is, there's only so many times the writers can keep addressing the issue while keeping Sheldon ambiguous about it. It worked the first time, I don't know that it will work a second time. They need to make their mind up about Sheldon's "deal", because if they really think committing on it is too much for them, then having such an unbalanced relationship that is totally skewed in favor of what Sheldon wants is not funny and they should seriously consider pulling the plug on it. If he has such massive issues to overcome and they drag it out because they're working on it together, fine. That is amazing. But if the point is that he really isn't into her in that way, only would consider it to please her, and she is the one expected to constantly put her needs aside because he likes it this way, then it's not a healthy relationship. At least not unless they show what other reasons are there that make him her "sweet babboo", because we haven't really seen much of that, especially recently. 

 

 

 

If the prior episodes did not give us a Sheldon bragging to complete strangers about physical intimacy then I could completely accept this premise. However what WAS on display pointed towards greater closeness and honesty between the two. The BTS alluded to greater contentment physically ( the eyebrow raising mole checking didn't make him or her appear unhappy) so basically I find the writer's are playing retractor mambo (I'll give them kudos on the word choice as it opens up a multitude of figurative and literal interpretations when it comes to Sheldon). 

 

basic-salsa-steps-on1.jpg:negative:

I'd prefer that they did a foxtrot.

 

 

Amy like many of the characters on the show is flawed and, to quote Leonard, broken.  That doesn't take away from the fact that when it comes to her relationship with Sheldon she has basically made his needs a priority above her own.  I'm sure we can list a dozen plus instances when she has come to his aid and comfort, heart in hand, yet what can we list for him?  The balance and attempt to rectify that is still lacking.  When she does act irrationally (Habitation) or erroneously (Workplace) it is almost OCC because it seems too odd even to Sheldon -"Wow, Amy's mad and Leonard was right. What a weird day."-  Yet Sheldon can get away with incessant childish and selfish behavior 3.5 years into this relationship.  I wish at some point we would see a situation where both are in need of comfort and Sheldon takes the lead to make them both feel better...oh wait I read that in a terrific fanfic found HERE.  The giant tweepodok for me is the fact that Sheldon has now equated INTIMACY=Physical closeness=SEX but Amy never said that and the "part of me wants more" goes beyond the physical but she hasn't explained it, keeping in mind that she was also never one to give into/recognize her emotional needs until her relationships with Sheldon and the group. So I agree the "mind reading" that you mentioned does need to be cleared up.  (could you link the Kaplan quotes you referred to?  I don't remember reading those.)

 

What it comes down to for me is the  spot-on text I changed to red. :banghead:  I do think once again an unwillingness to move Shamy forward may make this the beginning of a shakeup.  I read that line I quoted with a great sense of foreboding (I mean it. I even heard Hitchcock music).  Now for me shakeup does not equal breakup, and I hope that the writer's can be more creative with this pair ( :blind:  cautiously optimistic).  In my Aug. 21 review of another terrific Shamy fanfic found HERE  I wrote "For some reason Amy's distancing herself is my head canon for actually moving Sheldon on his own."  I still believe that more than ever but distancing can come in many forms and for different reasons with the hopeful end result that Sheldon will come to terms with the fact that he loves her and needs to show it or deal with the reality of her "backing out the door".

 

ETA:  Keep listing the positives.  All those were happy, happy, happy feels!!! :friends: Playing trains. *sigh*  I'm starting to think we should just keep a running episode Pro/Con list like Jimmy Fallon does on his show. 

Edited by dessertisserved

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Just read the report and I enjoyed the story and with the help of Meg & Koops input, I definitely feel like what Raj said could potentially be very helpful to them and they can move forward and both have what they want in the relationship. It's something I never thought about before....how Amy's comments are affecting Sheldon and as Raj and we already know, it goes both ways: Sheldon needs to give a little too.

 

MJ: I apologize in advance for being so childish and having such a dirty mind, but belive it or not the only thing I "saw" of your comment were: "Raj goes both ways" . Yeah, I know, really childish, but... what can I say?

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If the prior episodes did not give us a Sheldon bragging to complete strangers about physical intimacy then I could completely accept this premise. However what WAS on display pointed towards greater closeness and honesty between the two. The BTS alluded to greater contentment physically ( the eyebrow raising mole checking didn't make him or her appear unhappy) so basically I find the writer's are playing retractor mambo (I'll give them kudos on the word choice as it opens up a multitude of figurative and literal interpretations when it comes to Sheldon)

 

:negative:

 

Amy like many of the characters on the show is flawed and, to quote Leonard, broken.  That doesn't take away from the fact that when it comes to her relationship with Sheldon she has basically made his needs a priority above her own.  I'm sure we can list a dozen plus instances when she has come to his aid and comfort, heart in hand, yet what can we list for him?  The balance and attempt to rectify that is still lacking.  When she does act irrationally (Habitation) or erroneously (Workplace) it is almost OCC because it seems too normal.  Yet Sheldon can get away with incessant childish and selfish behavior 3.5 years into this relationship.  I wish at some point we would see a situation where both are in need of comfort and Sheldon takes the lead to make them both feel better...oh wait I read that in a terrific fanfic found HERE.  The giant tweepodok for me is the fact that Sheldon has now equated INTIMACY=Physical closeness=SEX but Amy never said that and the "part of me wants more" goes beyond the physical keeping in mind that she was also never one to give into/recognize her emotional needs until her relationships with Sheldon and the group. So I agree the "mind reading" that you mentioned does need to be cleared up.  (could you link the Kaplan quotes you referred to?  I don't remember reading those.)

 

What it comes down to for me is the  spot-on text I changed to red. :banghead:  I do think once again an unwillingness to move Shamy forward may make this is the beginning of a shakeup.  I read that line I quoted with a great sense of foreboding (I mean it. I even heard Hitchcock music).  Now for me shakeup does not equal breakup, and I hope that the writer's can be more creative with this pair ( :blind:  cautiously optimistic).  In my Aug. 21 review of another terrific Shamy fanfic found HERE  I wrote "For some reason Amy's distancing herself is my head canon for actually moving Sheldon on his own."  I still believe that more than ever but distancing can come in many forms and for different reasons with the hopeful end result that Sheldon will come to terms with the fact that he loves her and needs to show it or deal with the reality of her "backing out the door".

 

ETA:  Keep listing the positives.  All those were happy, happy, happy feels!!! :friends: Playing trains. *sigh*  I'm starting to think we should just keep a running episode Pro/Con list like Jimmy Fallon does on his show. 

 

Dessert, I get where you're coming from. I really do. I agree with everything you're saying. 

 

Except for a couple of things. The parts in bold.

 

1) I don't think one can compare Sheldon being angry, frustrated, finding guests and a dog in his home with Sheldon happily skipping along to his little moth in the workplace, when comparing how he was bragging about the physicality and how he snapped at her in this episode. He didn't snap at her telling her that he hates hugs or handholding or that he's back and forth about the relationship or anything like that. He simply overreacted in that moment because he was really not in the mood to go out and have a nice romantic walk with her. That doesn't negate the fact that when he's in a better mood he might enjoy those things now. I'm sure all of us have had moments where we've gone "REALLY?! THIS?! NOW?"

 

2) This is Sheldon we are talking about. I know you don't like to hear this right now, but one of his main character traits is overthinking and misunderstanding things that are not spelled out clearly to him and blowing things out of proportion. Remember the episode where Leonard makes a list of things he has blown out of proportion in the past? The cloud following him around town, the Koreans spying on him, thinking he had started growing again because he accidentally put on Leonard's shirt? This is totally a guy that jumps to conclusions. The whole D&D talk and role play started out about sex. Amy then talked about intimacy and wanting "more", and she constantly makes sex jokes, it doesn't take a great leap of characterization to realize that maybe yes, he has erroneously interpreted it as more = intimacy = physical contact = sex. Indeed, these two work best when they spell things out for each other.

 

For everything else, I completely agree with you. And I'm flattered that you're taking mine and Lio's fics as a template :p LOL. Crusher Conclusion is one of my favorite stories ever! 

 

The quote about the mindreading  was a tweet by Kaplan from Tuesday.

 

How many people in relationships give yoru partner a written biannual performance review? You should. Don't expect mind-reading

 

Edited by koops
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I don't think that him bragging about their mild physicality (he's not talking about making out or sex or anything like that, after all) and letting her measure his mole (I have no doubt that that duty might have fallen to Leonard in other circumstances--and who knows, maybe he's had Leonard measure it before, giving him something to compare it to...) necessarily means that he might not still have a reaction to her line.

 

While she's obviously not making any kind of sexual or even physical suggestion, him jumping to the idea that a suggestion of going for a walk is somehow sexual could indeed mean that he thinks of it as a romantic undertaking and romantic equals sex (in his mind.)

And maybe he might not have reacted the same way under other circumstances, but he's already angry and upset, so he snaps at her.

 

I think that the fact that her line was so obviously NOT about sex is what is supposed to make his reaction more absurd and funny.  Only Sheldon would think that a simple walk is something sexual.  Does that mean that the audience is supposed to think she is indeed "sex crazed" or pushing him for intimacy in that moment, as Raj suggests?  Or is the audience supposed to see Sheldon as the knucklehead for reacting the way he does to what is obviously NOT any kind of sexual innuendo.

 

It strikes me, on paper, like his line in the Closet episode where he characterizes simple romantic dance music as "Latin orgy music"--always exaggerating things when he feels like griping--his shirt is itchy and he wishes he were dead, and so on.

 

Whether or not it comes to bear in the future remains to be seen, I guess.

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It strikes me, on paper, like his line in the Closet episode where he characterizes simple romantic dance music as "Latin orgy music"--always exaggerating things when he feels like griping--his shirt is itchy and he wishes he were dead, and so on.

 

Whether or not it comes to bear in the future remains to be seen, I guess.

 

@phanta  I agree. On paper it can be very different.  We'll just have to see the final cut.  :unsure:

Edited by dessertisserved

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MJ: I apologize in advance for being so childish and having such a dirty mind, but belive it or not the only thing I "saw" of your comment were: "Raj goes both ways" . Yeah, I know, really childish, but... what can I say?

hahaha. Hey, we all do it (no pun intended) at times ;)

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It strikes me, on paper, like his line in the Closet episode where he characterizes simple romantic dance music as "Latin orgy music"--always exaggerating things when he feels like griping--his shirt is itchy and he wishes he were dead, and so on.

 

Whether or not it comes to bear in the future remains to be seen, I guess.

Now that I have fully recovered from my meltdown yesterday and can think rationally, I agree that we will have to see how it plays out in the episode. There are several times I can remember hating something that Amy or Sheldon said and it turned out okay on screen.

Last week, I was almost positive I was going to hate Amy's line about Raj and Howard having sex before she and Sheldon, but it wasn't bad at all. So, that said, positive thoughts. :)

 

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I agree with many posts here. Meg's post was great insight and I agree with that too. Amy has been "nothing but patient with him" as she herself said. She isn't pushing him with sex, according to we have seen on screen. Is she pushing him with other things either? We all know that is a false accusation, that writers want to point out for some reason. I see just a contradiction here - like she is accused of something that she hasn't done. She has been patient, understanding, loving and caring girlfriend.  If Sheldon really wanted Amy to back off, the next step would be that she literally backs out of his door. And I know that that isn't something Sheldon wants. If Amy left for real, Sheldon would go to the another side of the world if needed to get her back. I'm not sure if this is the direction where they are going. If she is backing off, there would be more room for Sheldon, but is there room for Amy anymore? Amy's point of view is as important as Sheldon's. I'm longing for that balance to their relationship that they used to have. Sheldon really needs to be shaken a bit to understand the current situation. Sheldon does love her, we know that. But writers need to address his issues with physical intimacy some way. What does Sheldon want in relation to intimacy? We may ask, does he know what he wants (according to his speech, he knows)? Is he sure about that, has he decided it yet, what he wants when it comes to her? Is it just his inner issues with intimacy that he is handling right now, or does he have issues in relation to Amy? Or both? Does he find even low intimacy like kissing her for him too embarrassing, he is afraid to show it anyway? Is he afraid of failing in it?  So many questions that need to be answered... 

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I think they do have balance.  Just last week with Professor Proton they were perfectly happy.  Even when she avoided coming out and saying the word "annoying", it was to spare his feelings, even if she had to leave the apartment to escape his annoying persistance.  He wasn't mad at her and she wasn't mad at him.  It was a moment where she was simply trying to help him with his social behavior.

 

At any rate, I don't think that one line is that big an indicator of their relationship.  Not this time, anyway.  I think the bigger indicator of where they are is their mutual "I like you, despite your quirks" exchange.  That was the truth.

 

This line, to me, is an exaggeration for effect.  Like saying, "I haven't seen you in a million years".  He has no problem with her sitting alone with him in his bedroom playing trains.  He doesn't consider that too pressuring.

 

Of course, I don't know if they're going to use that as a launching point for further development/discussion (I'm still hoping Kaplan's tweet turns out to be significant), but either way--if they use it to get into a conversation about it between S&H, or if they treat it like a throw-away joke--I don't think it undermines anything that has come before.

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Sheldon needs a HARD SHOCK to realize how important Amy is for him. He has to feel he is really missing or loosing her, and understands he needs her desperately in his life, because she is, in his own words, his girl, his girl friend, his emergency contact, his significant one, his woman, his cute Little lump of wool and the woman in his life(6 x 13)!!!

Edited by Susana Alcira Cairó
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Hello everyone! I'm Meg. Some of you probably know me from the other forum. I was quickly convinced by a dear friend to get with the times and come over here with you lovely people. For those that don't know me, it's nice to meet you! I live in Germany (though painfully not German), study psychology like it's my religion (the kind of religion that never ends...I'm pretty certain I'll be buried with a psychology book), and most importantly, I have been obsessed with Shamy for years and must occasionally use walls of text to convey my feelings, otherwise I will die (It's true...I've checked into it.). 

 

Anyway, just reading the last couple of pages, I'm happy to see that many here are optimistic (at least a bit) about current developments. This is a rough one, because in a relationship that's been written so vaguely, so much is left up to personal interpretation. When past developments are considered (especially regarding Sheldon) I think that whether any of us think this last scene was ultimately good or bad, we can probably all agree that it's harsh and direct, which is not what we're used to seeing with Shamy. Most of you already know what I think. I think that this means movement is coming. (Disclaimer: I've said that before and have been wrong so I claim to be no expert on movement here). Logic dictates that when an issue is put out in the open, as this has been thanks to Sheldon's outburst,  it must be dealt with, one way or another. That could be forward or backward movement, or it could mean that the writers choke again and decide to forget the whole thing. If they do, I'm concerned that we're going to get more of the same in the physical progress report department, which has been zilch this season.When the writers used Raj this way with Leonard and Penny, the biggest issue that they had at the time was out on the table, and it was soon dealt with by the writers in a way that moved them forward and made everyone happy. My hope is that they will stick to that formula here (and it makes sense to me that they would). If so, this moment could end up being pivotal. Either way, I know that I'm going to be  watching all future episodes carefully and with one eyebrow constantly raised (and a Red Cross medical team on standby just in case).

 

(Again, hello and so nice to be here!)  :)  

 

 

Meg!

 

I was so busy shirking work commenting on various posts all day that I totally missed your virgin first post!

So good to see you here!  Hope we don't scare you off... :p

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

YAY!!!! Meg is here!!!!!!!!

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I hope predictions regarding the shamy and the latest taping report and what it could mean are correct because I just realized tonight how tired I am of these Sheldon lines that indirectly reference their no-sex life, and Amy's exasperated looks and replies.

Also I am interested in sheldon's sudden urge to trade in for a prank flower. I like to think it was a whimsical, sheldony attempt at flirting? If it had worked, would he have laughed in good fun, and likely seeing her annoyance, hugged her and said, "aw, Amy, it was just a prank!" And then there's the wanting her to lean in close to smell it? I wish I could write fanfiction.

Edited by savvyhat

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