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The Shamy - Season 7 Spoilers Only Discussion Thread

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If I ever get another cat I will call it Shamy :)

We have a rather handsome rescue Greyhound called Sheldon. My kids named him; he had a long winded racing name which the rehoming centre had shortened to something crap that he didn't answer to. My kids picked him cause 'he looks like Sheldon' (not sure that I knew who Sheldon was 3 years ago)! However, unlike his namesake, our Sheldon is EVERYONE'S snuggle-bunny, no-one leaves here without a covering of dog hair to remember him by.

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I think the answers to all those questions won't be answered until they decide what to do about revealing Sheldon's "deal". And that's why we have all those questions to start with. They can't be shown communicating because that would reveal his "deal". They can't be clear about what they're doing off-screen because that would reveal his "deal". They can't show Amy help him or them working through things because that would reveal his "deal". So they're keeping it off-screen and ambiguous for as long as humanly possible. As things stand right now, I would hope that they haven't actually talked about the issue since 6x23, otherwise Amy's comments make her come across as pretty mean, if she's really aware of what's going on in his head.

So what do you mean by "Sheldon's deal"? Do you mean it as in what it is that turns him on or what it is that he's hung up on when it comes to physicality or what?

I mean, when the question first came up it had to do with Ramona Nowitski hanging out and Penny was wondering if he was interested (sexually) in girls?, guys?, sock puppets? Since they hadn't seen him show any romantic or sexual interest in anyone or anything, Penny was wondering what he was interested in sexually.

But we know that he's working on his touch issues and that he's fond of Amy, and the two of them had their D&D pseudo-sex, so he seems to be interested in her, so we do know that he has some sexual interest in her.

So I guess I don't understand what it is that you think they need to reveal.

Edited by phantagrae

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So what do you mean by "Sheldon's deal"? Do you mean it as in what it is that turns him on or what it is that he's hung up on when it comes to physicality or what?

I mean, when the question first came up it had to do with Ramona Nowitski hanging out and Penny was wondering if he was interested (sexually) in girls?, guys?, sock puppets? Since they hadn't seen him show any romantic or sexual interest in anyone or anything, Penny was wondering what he was interested in sexually.

But we know that he's working on his touch issues and that he's fond of Amy, and the two of them had their D&D pseudo-sex, so he seems to be interested in her, so we do know that he has some sexual interest in her.

So I guess I don't understand what it is that you think they need to reveal.

 

They haven't really committed on whether he is sexually attracted to Amy, and starting to desire physical intimacy himself, or is simply "working on it" for her sake. Even in 6x23 they dodged the issue with his answer to the question "Do you have an interest (in sex) now?" and him answering "I have not ruled it out", which can mean many things at the same time. I think it's obvious that the writers like to walk on the tightrope as far as Sheldon's sexuality is concerned, and I'm sure they're more than aware of the fact that many people think Sheldon having and showing sexual desires isn't Sheldon anymore. Regardless of whether that's a misguided interpretation of the character or not, it's an interpretation many hold (and I wonder whether some of the writers might too) and, as such, something that has the potential to be a big deal for the show. The reason they aren't committing to an answer has nothing to do with wanting to keep it slow, because with all the hung ups he has there are tons of way to slow down the relationship while showing to the audience that he is clearly attracted and interested. The reason they aren't committing to an answer is mostly because they don't want to. 

 

In order to answer the questions Cecilia was asking they need to be much clearer as to what is going on in his head than they have been so far. If the audience is shown that Sheldon and Amy are communicating on the issue and working through his hung ups in order to move forward in the realm of physical intimacy (be it by seeing them talk about it on screen or as off-screen mention), the cat is alive (or dead, depending on your opinion on the matter), because they would have to show what Sheldon wants when it comes to sex. They can't show even minimal physical progress on screen anymore without committing to Sheldon wanting it and not just putting up with it for her sake or it will make Amy come across as pathetic: they can't keep showing handholding like in 6x02, or hugs like the V-day hug over and over. So they tell you it's happening off screen where you're not really sure who initiates and what kind of hugs and handholding they are in an attempt to both progress their relationship while at the same time keeping the ambiguity about what Sheldon really likes or wants right now.

 

I use the word "deal" in quotation marks because it's just an easy way to summarize all of the above.

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@koops thank you for your answer you make very good points. I realize that if all these things become specific i.e. Sheldon hugs Amy goodnight or something like that it will be a major change plus a significant part of the audience will be disappointed for the one reason or the other. I just believe that they can do it for so much and there are already hints that something is really there. Maybe the writers themselves are torn between a completely asexual Sheldon and a version of him that has a sexual interest in Amy but eventually they have to make a choice. It is hard because some people will be disappointed no matter what they choose. And it is even harder because the charm of the shamy is their slow pace and the fact that the sexual element isn't the important one in the relationship. But it can be done and it will be a shame if they don't make the most of the season for the shamy.

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Please, review the Skype conversation between SHAMY in the HERB GARDEN GERMINATION! It is season 4. Sheldon seems to be comfortable with the idea of coitus! I am confused...!

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Please, review the Skype conversation between SHAMY in the HERB GARDEN GERMINATION! It is season 4. Sheldon seems to be comfortable with the idea of coitus! I am confused...!

If only it was ment like that.

He added the fact that enjoyed pretending to have coitus with her.

For "normal" ppl that might have ment what you suggest, but not for Sheldon.

To me, he just saw the entire thing as a science project, including that comment.

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The thing with the AU is it is as Koops said, it isn't really an AU, as much as imagining what life would have been like without Sheldon.  Everything else is the same.  They would be the same people, same jobs, etc.   So that is why having Amy be as she was before she met Sheldon would be the most consistent.   Likewise with Penny.  What she was like before she met Leonard and Sheldon.   Having her character be like she was then, not as she is now.  

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I'm hanging in chat on my own right now if you want :) I miss our Friday night Shamy chats!

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As a Shamy shipper, I will use the words of Sheldon to describe the utter overreaction to a potential HAMY AU pairing by the rest of Shamy folks here : See, this is why people think you are weird.

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As a Shamy shipper, I will use the words of Sheldon to describe the utter overreaction to a potential HAMY AU pairing by the rest of Shamy folks here : See, this is why people think you are weird.

Deja vu?

This quote is so good I liked it twice ;)

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Sheldon does not exist, so:

Leonard does not live in 4A

Leonard does not meet Penny

Penny does not meet Howard and Raj

Penny does not meet Stuart(because she never would visit the Comic Book Store)

Penny does not meet Amy

Amy does not meet Leonard, Raj and HOWARD, because the Web Date Site, only pairs similar people, and Amy and Howard are completly OPPOSITE at the end of Season 3, beginning of season 4.

Howard and Bernie do not meet because Howard never meet Penny.

Penny and Bernie possible meet because both work at Cheesecake Factory and Leonard, Raj and Howard posible meet because the three of them work at Caltech

So, if Sheldon never were in their lives, NONE of the couples were EXISTED! no LENNY, no SHAMY, no HOWARDETTE, no HAMY, no PENNYSTUART!

So, the GLUE is...... our beloved S H E L L Y!

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They haven't really committed on whether he is sexually attracted to Amy, and starting to desire physical intimacy himself, or is simply "working on it" for her sake. Even in 6x23 they dodged the issue with his answer to the question "Do you have an interest (in sex) now?" and him answering "I have not ruled it out", which can mean many things at the same time. I think it's obvious that the writers like to walk on the tightrope as far as Sheldon's sexuality is concerned, and I'm sure they're more than aware of the fact that many people think Sheldon having and showing sexual desires isn't Sheldon anymore. Regardless of whether that's a misguided interpretation of the character or not, it's an interpretation many hold (and I wonder whether some of the writers might too) and, as such, something that has the potential to be a big deal for the show. The reason they aren't committing to an answer has nothing to do with wanting to keep it slow, because with all the hung ups he has there are tons of way to slow down the relationship while showing to the audience that he is clearly attracted and interested. The reason they aren't committing to an answer is mostly because they don't want to. 

 

In order to answer the questions Cecilia was asking they need to be much clearer as to what is going on in his head than they have been so far. If the audience is shown that Sheldon and Amy are communicating on the issue and working through his hung ups in order to move forward in the realm of physical intimacy (be it by seeing them talk about it on screen or as off-screen mention), the cat is alive (or dead, depending on your opinion on the matter), because they would have to show what Sheldon wants when it comes to sex. They can't show even minimal physical progress on screen anymore without committing to Sheldon wanting it and not just putting up with it for her sake or it will make Amy come across as pathetic: they can't keep showing handholding like in 6x02, or hugs like the V-day hug over and over. So they tell you it's happening off screen where you're not really sure who initiates and what kind of hugs and handholding they are in an attempt to both progress their relationship while at the same time keeping the ambiguity about what Sheldon really likes or wants right now.

 

I use the word "deal" in quotation marks because it's just an easy way to summarize all of the above.

I don't think they've been all that vague in terms of Sheldon's sexuality. I think that Love Spell was intended to make it clear that he can envision physical intimacy with Amy beyond just doing it to appease her, like some kind of obligation. She was prepared to let him off the hook before he suggested that they play out the spell, and he was the one coming up with removing her armor and he didn't seem reluctant t imagine kissing her back on the lips, etc.

So I think they've made it pretty clear that he is interested in intimacy with Amy, even if his reply was somewhat equivocating. It seems to me that his role-playing belied his non-committal answer.

When he said he wouldn't rule it out and she said, "Wow, talk dirty to me," he did that little exasperated head tilt thing, as if to show that her sarcastic reaction wasn't what he had intended, that he hadn't meant it to be deflecting or vague, which is why, IMO, he went through with the role-playing, as sort of a token of his physical intimacy to come.

And I think the writers said, didn't they?, that it was their intention to imply that the role-playing went "all the way" and was intended to be their first "encounter", such as it was.

At any rate, I don't think they're intending to be vague about Sheldon's sexuality or his desire for Amy, just reluctant to show them doing anything overt.

I don't know that they need to say up front that Sheldon wants to have sex with Amy in order to prove anything about his sexuality or his basic desire for her or his ultimate goal in "working on it." I think that in the incremental steps they're using, the hints about off-screen hugs, etc., and his apparent pride in engaging in such physical acts, are intended to imply that there is some kind of progress being made, even if is on the most innocent of levels (hand-holding and hugging.)

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I don't think they've been all that vague in terms of Sheldon's sexuality. I think that Love Spell was intended to make it clear that he can envision physical intimacy with Amy beyond just doing it to appease her, like some kind of obligation. She was prepared to let him off the hook before he suggested that they play out the spell, and he was the one coming up with removing her armor and he didn't seem reluctant t imagine kissing her back on the lips, etc.

So I think they've made it pretty clear that he is interested in intimacy with Amy, even if his reply was somewhat equivocating. It seems to me that his role-playing belied his non-committal answer.

When he said he wouldn't rule it out and she said, "Wow, talk dirty to me," he did that little exasperated head tilt thing, as if to show that her sarcastic reaction wasn't what he had intended, that he hadn't meant it to be deflecting or vague, which is why, IMO, he went through with the role-playing, as sort of a token of his physical intimacy to come.

And I think the writers said, didn't they?, that it was their intention to imply that the role-playing went "all the way" and was intended to be their first "encounter", such as it was.

At any rate, I don't think they're intending to be vague about Sheldon's sexuality or his desire for Amy, just reluctant to show them doing anything overt.

I don't know that they need to say up front that Sheldon wants to have sex with Amy in order to prove anything about his sexuality or his basic desire for her or his ultimate goal in "working on it." I think that in the incremental steps they're using, the hints about off-screen hugs, etc., and his apparent pride in engaging in such physical acts, are intended to imply that there is some kind of progress being made, even if is on the most innocent of levels (hand-holding and hugging.)

 

I too think that Sheldon does think about being intimate with Amy, as you described in the D&D scene.

But also in S5 (again episode 23 , maybe episode 23 of each season will be a big Shamy episode?) The lauch Acceleration, Sheldon said to Leonard:

 

For example, this morning, I was calculating the random motion of virtual particles in a vacuum, when suddenly the particles morphed into an image of Amy’s dandruff gently cascading down onto her pale, slightly hunched shoulders.

 

I personally think that was one of the few moments Sheldon was being honest about how he feels about Amy, on a physical level.

He didn't mention actual touching etc. but the fact that he actual thought about Amy's body, is a big deal for Sheldon.

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I don't think they've been all that vague in terms of Sheldon's sexuality. I think that Love Spell was intended to make it clear that he can envision physical intimacy with Amy beyond just doing it to appease her, like some kind of obligation. She was prepared to let him off the hook before he suggested that they play out the spell, and he was the one coming up with removing her armor and he didn't seem reluctant t imagine kissing her back on the lips, etc.

So I think they've made it pretty clear that he is interested in intimacy with Amy, even if his reply was somewhat equivocating. It seems to me that his role-playing belied his non-committal answer.

When he said he wouldn't rule it out and she said, "Wow, talk dirty to me," he did that little exasperated head tilt thing, as if to show that her sarcastic reaction wasn't what he had intended, that he hadn't meant it to be deflecting or vague, which is why, IMO, he went through with the role-playing, as sort of a token of his physical intimacy to come.

And I think the writers said, didn't they?, that it was their intention to imply that the role-playing went "all the way" and was intended to be their first "encounter", such as it was.

At any rate, I don't think they're intending to be vague about Sheldon's sexuality or his desire for Amy, just reluctant to show them doing anything overt.

I don't know that they need to say up front that Sheldon wants to have sex with Amy in order to prove anything about his sexuality or his basic desire for her or his ultimate goal in "working on it." I think that in the incremental steps they're using, the hints about off-screen hugs, etc., and his apparent pride in engaging in such physical acts, are intended to imply that there is some kind of progress being made, even if is on the most innocent of levels (hand-holding and hugging.)

 

I'm not arguing that there isn't plenty of evidence that he might indeed be thinking about it and wanting it for himself. And that is the interpretative stance I'm taking on it and I'm sure you all know that I don't believe Sheldon isn't into her that way. I don't think Sheldon would have initiated and carried out a role-play sexual encounter to its end if he weren't and Chiany made an excellent example of how glaringly obvious it was in S5 that she was getting his motor running. And I think it is clear as day now that he adores her and is very much emotionally involved in their relationship and is happy with that.

 

What I'm saying is that everything we have been given so far on screen caters both to those who do want to believe Sheldon is attracted to her and wants to be intimate with her, and the issue is that he has a lot of hung ups to overcome, as well as to those who want to believe Sheldon is "asexual" (using the term in the misguided way most people use it, of course) and is incapable of such feelings, and the only reason he is considering it is to make her happy. You cannot tell me that we definitely have enough evidence to make a definite argument against the latter interpretation, other than having faith that the writers are going where we think they are going.

 

Indeed, MOST of the hints we get about their progress are about things that happen off-screen. That role play continued off-screen. Sheldon wasn't phased about kissing or getting naked in the fantasy but at the same time it wasn't until the "erotically caress" line that they let him have some kind of sensual inflection in his voice. Before, it was very matter-of-fact and neutral. The hugging and handholding happens off screen. The only overt sign of change about it we got was him bragging about it in 7x05, implying that he enjoys it: but how often do they hug? Who initiates it? What kind of hugs are they? We aren't told, so all headcanons are valid. And when stuff *does* happen on screen, like in 6x02, Fish Guts, or the V-day hug, for the most part we are shown Sheldon to be totally passive or indifferent or just putting up with it. It is glaringly obvious to me that the writers are riding the fence and trying to please everyone at this stage and that their decisions have only partly to do with keeping it slow. 6x14 was the only episode that was finally breaching that frontier and was meant to lead to the SIK and they changed their minds about it. 

 

Why do you think they're so reluctant to *show them* hugging or holding hands, especially if Sheldon initiates it, when they had no problem doing so in S4 and 5, pre-RA? Because in S4 and 5 it was the comedy of the "they say they're not in a relationship but they act like they are" so they could dismiss it with it that explanation, and it was Amy initiating it all. You say that they don't need to say upfront what Sheldon's "deal" is, but the thing is... him initiating a kiss because he wants to IS saying upfront what is deal is. That is why the SIK is such a big hurdle that these writers can't seem to jump over. That would be Sheldon *wanting* to kiss another human being. On the mouth. (Like mommies and daddies do :p ). Not because he has to or because he is reciprocating a kiss she initiates, but because he wants to. The one reassuring thing about the current situation is that, if they are so reluctant to show it, it means they aren't planning on taking it back once it happens, just like they didn't take back Penny's ILY. Otherwise they would have had him kiss her drunk or something a long time ago. The kiss isn't just a kiss for the sake of a kiss to them.

Edited by koops
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Why do you think they're so reluctant to *show them* hugging or holding hands, especially if Sheldon initiates it, when they had no problem doing so in S4 and 5, pre-RA? Because in S4 and 5 it was the comedy of the "they say they're not in a relationship but they act like they are" so they could dismiss it with it that explanation, and it was Amy initiating it all. You say that they don't need to say upfront what Sheldon's "deal" is, but the thing is... him initiating a kiss because he wants to IS saying upfront what is deal is. That is why the SIK is such a big hurdle that these writers can't seem to jump over. That would be Sheldon *wanting* to kiss another human being. On the mouth. (Like mommies and daddies do :p ). Not because he has to or because he is reciprocating a kiss she initiates, but because he wants to. The one reassuring thing about the current situation is that, if they are so reluctant to show it, it means they aren't planning on taking it back once it happens, just like they didn't take back Penny's ILY. Otherwise they would have had him kiss her drunk or something a long time ago. The kiss isn't just a kiss for the sake of a kiss to them.

 

TPTB are very cautious about Shamy advancement knowing that there is a vocal opposition in the large TBBT fan base against Sheldon changing from his original inception. Unlike Leonard and Penny, where the character's arc was planned for eventual couple-hood, Sheldon was designed to have no interest in sex or coupling with, uh, anything. A SIK is crossing the Rubicon. Sheldon, as we know him, would be dead.

 

TPTB have made a lot of money working that original plan. They have felt safe to tweak it around the edges, like Howard stop being a sleaze and ending up with Bernadette or Raj being able to talk to women. But those were things they knew the majority of fans wanted and would not drastically change the show's initial premise. But now they are faced with two major premise busting developments, both involving Sheldon:

 

1. How do you allow L/P to marry knowing that logic dictates that they would be less involved with Sheldon. TPTB have delayed the inevitable because Sheldon irritating L/P is a major source of comedy. Also, an escape by Leonard would mean Amy would become the logical "ward" of Sheldon.

 

2. As you stated, an overt romantic act (like the SIK) by Sheldon to Amy declares his "deal" once and for all. I think the majority of fans would accept this but this means Sheldon will have to be written differently from this point on. A lot of gags they have been using for 6 1/2 years would have to be modified or abandoned completely. Most of that humor was getting shopworn anyway.

Edited by BangerMain
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A kiss for many people at present can mean nothing and so can sex, both are done "Just for fun"  massively in today's society. Sex is no longer being seen as the pinnacle of love as it used to, which is why some people still can't seem to accept Amy's desire for it, because they think she's a horn dog and nothing else. Sheldon and Amy are very old fashioned in the sense that every act of physical intimacy is an absolute embodiment of their emotional intimacy and I love it. All of this is new to Sheldon and the difficulty translating his feelings towards Amy is very real, especially with his touch issues, as his emotions have to be great enough to push past that barrier. It will mean a great deal to Sheldon when he kisses Amy and will it will mean absolutely everything to each other when they take each other's virginity. It will be a true statement of their love, which is why I'm adamant that Sheldon would never have sex with Amy just to please her, He needs that strong emotional desire to overpower his fear of touch and I just don't think it's in the brutal honesty of his character to have sex "just for" anything but love. 

 

People forget that Amy is the same, it's made more clear that she wants to have sex with Sheldon because it's also much clearer just how much she loves him. Much like Sheldon she also had zero interest in sex before she met him and so, without the touch issues acting as a barrier, it's perfectly reasonable that we see her feel this way now. So no, she's not pathetically desperate and horny for a bit of hanky panky with some guy she thinks is hot. She wants more than anything to feel like she means to world to him, because he means the world to her.

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Hello!

 

i'm a total lurker but had to come out of the woodwork eventually :)

 

I have a hope for how the realisation that Sheldon wants to kiss Amy will come about. I would love it if he tried to initiate a kiss but try and cover it as being the social convention to do so then be called out on it. Like, for example, he goes out of his way to hang up some mistletoe and when he announces to Amy that they have to kiss because its the social convention, she refuses because she doesn't want him to kiss her because he feels he has to, and he goes on one of his rants and isn't happy his plan didn't work lol then later on when they're all sitting down Leonards' like 'who bought the mistletoe?' and Amy's face when she realises would be priceless lol :p someone please write a fanfiction because I doubt it'd happen on the show :p

 

 

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TPTB are very cautious about Shamy advancement knowing that there is a vocal opposition in the large TBBT fan base against Sheldon changing from his original inception. Unlike Leonard and Penny, where the character's arc was planned for eventual couple-hood, Sheldon was designed to have no interest in sex or coupling with, uh, anything. A SIK is crossing the Rubicon. Sheldon, as we know him, would be dead.

 

TPTB have made a lot of money working that original plan. They have felt safe to tweak it around the edges, like Howard stop being a sleaze and ending up with Bernadette or Raj being able to talk to women. But those were things they knew the majority of fans wanted and would not drastically change the show's initial premise. But now they are faced with two major premise busting developments, both involving Sheldon:

 

1. How do you allow L/P to marry knowing that logic dictates that they would be less involved with Sheldon. TPTB have delayed the inevitable because Sheldon irritating L/P is a major source of comedy. Also, an escape by Leonard would mean Amy would become the logical "ward" of Sheldon.

 

2. As you stated, an overt romantic act (like the SIK) by Sheldon to Amy declares his "deal" once and for all. I think the majority of fans would accept this but this means Sheldon will have to be written differently from this point on. A lot of gags they have been using for 6 1/2 years would have to be modified or abandoned completely. Most of that humor was getting shopworn anyway.

 

I don't think that Sheldon has to be written completely differently (especially not overnight) or that his character would be turned inside out if he were to express interest in physical intimacy with Amy. Sex asides, Sheldon was also originally "designed" as someone who had no romantic interest in anything, and yet they've slowly but surely transformed him into someone who is very much smitten with his girlfriend without turning his character inside out, like this season in particular has proven. Because he has plenty of other character traits that were established since very early on that actually work VERY well for that purpose: he gets very attached and overenthusiastic and excited about things he is passionate about, he can be very sappy and sentimental underneath it all, as proven by his relationship with his Mom and Meemaw, and he likes security and commitment, so a long-term relationship actually suits him very well. There is not only one way to write romance and not only one way to write sex, I think people who oppose the idea of Sheldon becoming physical have rather limited imagination because they only see the "standard" kind of plotlines and just assume he's going to turn into your regular Joe, like sex is some kind of magic wand who will turn him from a pumpkin into a chariot.

 

Also, it is clear from the way Amy was originally written that the writers didn't set out to write Sheldon as someone who would never ever have any interest in women. It is storytelling 101 that once a character trait is emphasized, it will be challenged. If you watch 3x23 and S4, it is clear that the way Amy was conceived was to answer the question "What would it take for Sheldon to be interested in a woman?". There were plenty of hints throughout S3 that that's where they were going with Sheldon, even as far back as Ramona: Ramona adored him for his mind but she was really just a silly groupie, Beverly was intellectually compatible but too old, Martha shared his love for nerd-y stuff but wasn't all that smart, Plimpton was intellectually compatible but a nympho. Combine all these women's pros and take away their cons and out comes Amy.

 

What I especially disagree on is the notion that Sheldon becoming physical with Amy would mean Sheldon as we know him is dead. That is only the case if you reduce Sheldon to nothing more than a character who was "designed" not to have an interest in sex or romance. But Sheldon is vastly more than just that. The gags or lines about Sheldon and sex were much rarer than other gags about his characters, like his OCD, arrogance, bluntness, and all other quirks he has, yet people make it sound like every episode has at least one line where Sheldon declares "I am asexual!!!". That is just one trait of his personality, not unlike Howard's sleaziness or Raj's inability to talk to women or Leonard's pining for Penny. Many would argue (and some do) that Leonard getting Penny defeats the purpose of the show which is about the nerds never being able to "get the girl" and that Leonard shouldn't have "gotten" Penny until the very end of the show for that reason. But, obviously there is more to these characters than what they do or do not do with their genitalia and their hearts. Yet society is so obsessed with sex that even complex characters like Sheldon are reduced to a penis, and what he does or doesn't do with it, as if people's attitudes towards sex are what REALLY defines them as a person, and if those change, they're not the same person anymore. It's the same reason why people IRL are so damn obsessed with other people's sexual orientation, virginity and gossips. And so the whole progress of an otherwise incredibly intriguing relationship is reduced to "When are Sheldon and Amy going to have sex?". It's frankly rather disheartening and superficial because I think there's so much more to these characters than that and there's so much more to life than sex.

 

It isn't the case that the majority of the fans wanted Howard to settle down at all, quite the opposite. Surely you have read all the comments that regularly pop up by disgruntled fans of S1-3 saying how much Howard has been ruined? Again, for many, his sex life defined him more than everything else that goes on with his character (mother, father, engineering, Raj), to the point that he is "ruined" by the fact that he stopped being a pathetic sleaze bag that chases girls around. Because many people are dead set on the fact that this is a show about nerds, nerds are losers, losers never get laid and don't get girlfriends, and if they to the show is ruined because to them it isn't funny anymore. When the writers have NEVER said that. The original conception of the show wasn't about who gets what girl or who doesn't get laid or who can't speak to women. It was about the "academic nerd" world, represented by people with way above average intelligence but socially stunted, meeting the "normal" world, represented by Penny, and everything that happens as a consequence of that. That is what the writers said again and again and again. And, indeed, it was PENNY who set most things in motion in terms of changes for every single character, not just Leonard. She was the one who introduced Bernadette to Howard, she was the one who chaperoned Sheldon through his relationship with Amy during the early days and still often does, she was the one who got Amy out of her shell, she was the one Raj spoke to drunk AND sober for the first time. What has happened to all 4 of the guys and to Amy, in terms of character development, is perfectly in line with the original premise of the show: mix the nerds with Penny and see what happens. 

 

There's a difference between what the show *is* about, by TBTP's criteria, and what you (general you) watch the show for or find funny. But a lot of people can't tell the difference between the two. And since it's all (or mostly) about ratings for TPTB, they have to cater to that superficial view of one character trait making or breaking the show. And I don't put it past some of TPTB to have that kind of all-or-nothing view of Sheldon themselves.

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But do we know that the reason they're reluctant to show physical interaction between Sheldon and Amy is just to appease the no-sex-for-Sheldon crowd? Or could it simply be that they are rationing them out for use at specific moments while they focus on other things, and that the hints about offscreen activity is to remind the audience that things are still progressing even if we don't see them.

I am reluctant to assume motive in the minds of the writers, especially when it comes to saying that they're trying to please this faction or that faction. I don't believe that they've ever hinted that they're not intending to progress the Shamy, but that they've always insisted that it's going to progress in its own way and at its pace, regardless of what this or that faction might think should or should not happen and when, including the Shamys.

How anyone interprets the pace and nature of their progress is out of the hands of the writers, but it has never struck me that they're trying to ride the fence.

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@ Koops

Could not have said it better (or even nearly as good as you did)

To quote Chuck & Bill:

This show isn't about Nerds, it's about ppl.

And ppl can change, without losing who they were.

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Of course people change ! I´m not the same as I was twenty years ago, and people round me too. Nerds are nerds, but they have love, wives, girfriends and children! I know a couple who is a mix of all the characters of TBBT. They are married and they have a three years old girl. And they are BIG NERDS! and they seem to be very happy!

Edited by Susana Alcira Cairó

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But do we know that the reason they're reluctant to show physical interaction between Sheldon and Amy is just to appease the no-sex-for-Sheldon crowd? Or could it simply be that they are rationing them out for use at specific moments while they focus on other things, and that the hints about offscreen activity is to remind the audience that things are still progressing even if we don't see them.

I am reluctant to assume motive in the minds of the writers, especially when it comes to saying that they're trying to please this faction or that faction. I don't believe that they've ever hinted that they're not intending to progress the Shamy, but that they've always insisted that it's going to progress in its own way and at its pace, regardless of what this or that faction might think should or should not happen and when, including the Shamys.

How anyone interprets the pace and nature of their progress is out of the hands of the writers, but it has never struck me that they're trying to ride the fence.

 

I don't think that they're only writing the show the way they are to to appease any particular faction, no. Otherwise, to use Molaro's words, Sheldon and Penny would be having sex every week. But as much as they write the show the way they want to, they are also aware of what the audience likes or does not like and respond to that because, at the end of the day, ratings are important. And so they do try to make as many people happy as possible while still writing the story they want to write. It's just standard procedure for any entertainment product. 

 

Also, like I said, I do think there's disagreements between the writers themselves as to how and when to develop Sheldon and Shamy. They have said so more than once that it is "discussed a lot in the writers room and it is something that we constantly struggle with" (Chuck, at Paley). Molaro has been confronted more than once about the fact that some people are very against the idea of Sheldon becoming physical and he did say that they were proud of the D&D roleplay because it was still "asexual" and that it is important that the show/Sheldon does not change too much and that they will progress to a point where they (the writers) are all comfortable with. His exact words. So I don't think the slow progress has only to do with audience-pleasing, but with writers-pleasing too. And they also want to milk it because it's a cash-cow, of course. Lots of factors determine the pace of it all.

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Does anybody REALLY know if Amy and Howard have a scene together and alone in 7 x 11?

No we have no idea.   The way things were worded and the source were both questionable.  So no, we have no idea.

 

 

 

Welcome out of lurkdom, xxn1c0laxx

 

 

TPTB are very cautious about Shamy advancement knowing that there is a vocal opposition in the large TBBT fan base against Sheldon changing from his original inception. Unlike Leonard and Penny, where the character's arc was planned for eventual couple-hood, Sheldon was designed to have no interest in sex or coupling with, uh, anything. A SIK is crossing the Rubicon. Sheldon, as we know him, would be dead.

 

TPTB have made a lot of money working that original plan. They have felt safe to tweak it around the edges, like Howard stop being a sleaze and ending up with Bernadette or Raj being able to talk to women. But those were things they knew the majority of fans wanted and would not drastically change the show's initial premise. But now they are faced with two major premise busting developments, both involving Sheldon:

 

1. How do you allow L/P to marry knowing that logic dictates that they would be less involved with Sheldon. TPTB have delayed the inevitable because Sheldon irritating L/P is a major source of comedy. Also, an escape by Leonard would mean Amy would become the logical "ward" of Sheldon.

 

2. As you stated, an overt romantic act (like the SIK) by Sheldon to Amy declares his "deal" once and for all. I think the majority of fans would accept this but this means Sheldon will have to be written differently from this point on. A lot of gags they have been using for 6 1/2 years would have to be modified or abandoned completely. Most of that humor was getting shopworn anyway.

 

 

I think this part in bold it the key point in this message.   I do believe many fans are starting to feel the humor is getting shopworn.  I have seen on many forum sites that they feel the humor has been stale and repetitive and that the show is losing some of its steam.  I believe this is why.  The humor has been about the same things over and over.  Just like we were stating after the Thanksgiving episode and all the "fat" jokes about Howard's mother.  That is stale and getting to the point of being rude and mean.   Same with the humor about Amy lacking affection.  That has grown stale and is getting annoying.

 

Bottom line, they have an opportunity to keep Sheldon the same person, yet still be affectionate and show his feelings physically, without changing him drastically and they have an opportunity to capitalize on some new jokes and humor in the process.   They need to move forward so they can breathe fresh life into the show with new humor.

Edited by stardustmelody

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