Episodes 7.02 "the Deception Verification" (September 26)

[Occam's Chainsaw]

hmm , i actually saw the entire episodes...the rest of the plots seemed basic... amy and bernie was just weird...

 

 

the second leonard came behind the door and surprised penny ... anyone who has been watching big bang thoery can easily predict that this was going be entirely about sheldon.....

 

don't get me wrong... i like the show...but the humour and source of jokes for me is getting predictable and safe....most of this was even similar to 3.1... they come home ...sheldon is deceived...everyone has to feel sorry for sheldon...same template different variables...

It was totally different, in S3 everyone kind of agreed that what they did to Sheldon was kind of wrong, but in this one Sheldon is really on his own, even his girlfriend won't really back him. In S3 Leonard had to put everything off to get Sheldon to calm down about everything, in this one Leonard continues his life and Sheldon can either deal with it or find his own ride to work.

[3ku11]

It was totally different, in S3 everyone kind of agreed that what they did to Sheldon was kind of wrong, but in this one Sheldon is really on his own, even his girlfriend won't really back him. In S3 Leonard had to put everything off to get Sheldon to calm down about everything, in this one Leonard continues his life and Sheldon can either deal with it or find his own ride to work.

Yes the character arc's was very similar to Season 3, but you seem to have this impression and opinion of TBBT now that it is predictable and safe, that is perception not fact (Not refering to post above just the general discussion). Difference with 3.01 and 7.02 is Penny felt really sorry for Sheldon as Leonard, Howard, and Raj tampered with his work, where as this time around Leonard had been away on his own this time around for like 3-4 months, and based on the circumstances Leonard wanted to avoid Sheldon knowing Sheldon he would be offended, and not seeing his GF for four months Leonard is perfectly entitled to do so. The idea is the same as S3, just the varables and the dynamics between the characters much different, so IMO I don't see it as predictable or safe at all. What were you expecting it wasen't a science focused episode, their were a few science lines, but the episode was dealing mostly with the return of status quo in the show. The seasons started out as similar to Season 3 because of the story arch of the episode, not neccessarily meaning the writers are getting predictable and safe, it is just the premiere in terms of its structure was the same the actual state of the characters was very different.

Edited September 29, 2013 by 3ku11

[wayelrob]

I found the breast touching nonsense almost a disturbing as the internet kissing machine scene in a previous season. Didn't get the humor at all. Just creepy.

[koops]

I honestly think people sometimes expect way too much development and change in this show. By Lorre's own admission, this show's character development is like watching paint dry. And if you do, then you'll be disappointed the more you keep watching. I found this in some reviews too. The reason this show continues for so long is precisely because they revisit their own standard scenarios (e.g. Sheldon being childish over Leonard's attention) adding little new twists to each every time. Like Occam pointed out, if you pay attention, the scenario IS very different this time around. You're not going to have episodes where suddenly Penny surprises Leonard with a surprise wedding, Sheldon has an epiphany and learns how to behave, Howard and Amy discover they are half-siblings or anything like that. And I would actually agree with Jim that the fact that things change SO slowly on this show is very realistic. And it ensures they don't do anything too harshly that they might regret later on (i.e. Penny/Raj was the closest they came to a shocking moment, and look how that played out).

 

I think many forms of entertainment have gotten people used to this idea of dramatic life-changing moments and if you don't get them then the show is disappointing. What I like about this show is that I can go back an watch an episode 100 times and I find new little nuances every time. I do agree though that it's entertainment, not reality. And if some people's preference when it comes to entertainment is to see massive moments and cliffhangers, Homeland or Breaking Bad are much better shows. I personally appreciate both styles.

 

Btw, the boob grabbing scene had been done before in Will & Grace. It's nothing new. I actually wonder if it was a homage to that.

Edited September 29, 2013 by koops

[3ku11]

I found the breast touching nonsense almost a disturbing as the internet kissing machine scene in a previous season. Didn't get the humor at all. Just creepy.

No offense but you need to lighten up it's a comedy just laugh, I found it hillarous but I guess it depends on your sensitivity for things.

[BangBangClick]

The pacing of the arc between Penny and Leonard has been slowed, in my opinion, for the benefit of stretching it for the sake of the writers.  The fragile relationship between these two characters is difficult when living across the hall.  4 months apart should have elicited more than a hug and a series of dinners.  No, I was not expecting a proposal.  Just more than what was given.  Unlike the other two relationships, which have been cultivated to show strong emotional bonding between them.  Sheldon growing dependent of Amy emotionally, Howard accepting his husband role, Penny and Leonard are stuck.  Their relationship seems to boil down to hot chick who accepts a guy showering her with attention.  I can only blame the writers interest in stretching that arc out of laziness.  I would love for them to grow Lenny in the same manner as their development of the other two.  As a viewer, their is no doubt that Sheldon loves Amy and Howard loves Bernadette.  Leonard seems infatuated with Penny and she is alright with it. 

[Occam's Chainsaw]

The pacing of the arc between Penny and Leonard has been slowed, in my opinion, for the benefit of stretching it for the sake of the writers.  The fragile relationship between these two characters is difficult when living across the hall.  4 months apart should have elicited more than a hug and a series of dinners.  No, I was not expecting a proposal.  Just more than what was given.  Unlike the other two relationships, which have been cultivated to show strong emotional bonding between them.  Sheldon growing dependent of Amy emotionally, Howard accepting his husband role, Penny and Leonard are stuck.  Their relationship seems to boil down to hot chick who accepts a guy showering her with attention.  I can only blame the writers interest in stretching that arc out of laziness.  I would love for them to grow Lenny in the same manner as their development of the other two.  As a viewer, their is no doubt that Sheldon loves Amy and Howard loves Bernadette.  Leonard seems infatuated with Penny and she is alright with it. 

We can assume that there was more to it than what was shown on camera, but they were limited on time and had other story lines to do at the same time. For instance we know they had dinner together, but we don't know how romantic that was, they probably spent plenty of time talking. Not to mention the sex they had, but seeing as the show is on Network Television and not HBO we'll simply have to live with the fact that it wasn't on screen.

[koops]

The pacing of the arc between Penny and Leonard has been slowed, in my opinion, for the benefit of stretching it for the sake of the writers.  The fragile relationship between these two characters is difficult when living across the hall.  4 months apart should have elicited more than a hug and a series of dinners.  No, I was not expecting a proposal.  Just more than what was given.  Unlike the other two relationships, which have been cultivated to show strong emotional bonding between them.  Sheldon growing dependent of Amy emotionally, Howard accepting his husband role, Penny and Leonard are stuck.  Their relationship seems to boil down to hot chick who accepts a guy showering her with attention.  I can only blame the writers interest in stretching that arc out of laziness.  I would love for them to grow Lenny in the same manner as their development of the other two.  As a viewer, their is no doubt that Sheldon loves Amy and Howard loves Bernadette.  Leonard seems infatuated with Penny and she is alright with it. 

 

I did not get that impression at all from the premiere episode. If anything, we are finally shown Leonard having a blast while Penny misses him and mopes over him. It's the total opposite of what it's always been. I don't know where you got the impression that Penny is simply "alright" with Leonard being "infatuated" with her from these 2 eps. 

 

I also think it's all relative. Both L/P and S/A are dragged out for the sake of the show, and I just think that, while frustrating (backtracking in particular is something I cannot stand), it is also better this way because if they move them too fast, while aiming for 10 seasons, they will have to resort to lots of contrived rom-com plots in the future to keep them interesting. The most predictable of all: split them up. The writers have more freedom to move H/B along at a more realistic pace because they are the "background" couple. It's also not a rom-com, so relationship development isn't always the priority of the episode. I personally like that you get given little tidbits of domesticity between the couples amidst all the comedy, rather than very obvious, in-your-face romance.

 

And I think comparing the three relationships is a bit pointless, since they are so different from one another. On this forum alone, you can find people who think anything and the opposite of anything about each of them, depending on what their frame of reference for "love" is. The "viewer" experience is quite varied. It just depends on what flavor you like best.

[AdorkablyMe]

Remember when Howie proposed to Bernadette?  They hugged...no kiss, just hugged.  At least Penny and Leonard got a few kisses in.

[BangBangClick]

Excellent points.  The strength of the show is the diversity of its characters interactions.  I disagree that this is not a romantic comedy, all the characters are following their quest for a relationship, starting one, or maintaining one.  That's what is so good about this forum, perspectives that helps one appreciate more facets of the show, thanks for all the varied insights!

[koops]

Excellent points.  The strength of the show is the diversity of its characters interactions.  I disagree that this is not a romantic comedy, all the characters are following their quest for a relationship, starting one, or maintaining one.  That's what is so good about this forum, perspectives that helps one appreciate more facets of the show, thanks for all the varied insights!

 

What I mean is that the core of the show is, in a nutshell, the nerds vs. social skills, which include learning to navigate romance in their own way, of course. But romance is just one of the facets of the show. Friendships and work-relationships are given just as much screen-time as romances on this show, whereas in rom-coms it's pretty much just romance every episode. So, because of that, the relationships aren't front and center all the time, they develop more slowly, but they are also arguably more realistic, instead of having constant drama and revolving doors of lovers.

Edited September 29, 2013 by koops

[ajond]

 Not sure how Sheldon revealing his feeling's more is predictable in anyway, seeing he has been known not to articulate his emotions at all. I've watched the show since the beginning, and I felt the show is as good as S1-3 if not better, much better start then last years, not sure why anyone would bother to point out how predictable the show has become when a lot of people don't feel that way JMO.

I don't think you can justify your opinion of her performance based on people being fanboys/girls that's my point I am trying to make, are you saying your opinon holds weight over anyone elses? Your coming across as your opinion is not flawed at all. I mean i'm assuming your no different to anyone posting here, your a fangirl I am assuming seeing your a fan of the show just saying. IMO I thought it was one of her best performances but your entitled to your opinion.

Never said that. You seem to be deliberately or perversely misinterpreting what I said. Anyway I am totally bored with this interaction. I look forward to hearing from you and others when I comment on Ep3 (good bad or ugly).i really hope it is good as I desperately want to enjoy BBT for the rest of S7 and beyond

[3ku11]

It is really getting old this perception that Leonard is infaturated with Penny but doesen't love her. Really he has been chasing her since the pilot, and Leonard and Penny's relationship as a couple or just as friends as the been the heart of the show since the pilot, and some people are trying to sell this idea Sheldon and Amy, and Howard and Bernadette are a loving relationship but Leonard and Penny are not? Yes Leonard's initial attraction to Penny was her looks, but as Leonard was  a nerd and Penny is hot that was the first impression, as time went by especially in S1 they developed a friendship, and Leonard has proved so many times through out the series run that he loves Penny. I mean Howard diddn't want to commit to Bernadette straight away as he had this idealistic idea of the perfect women that was unrealistic, yet Leonard's attraction and relationship with Penny is purley infaturation, even though they have been dating recently for the past two season's so you would think Leonard had time to get to know Penny I don't think anyone here or anyone watches the show disputes the fact that Leonard geniunely loves Penny the actorish haha, the online gaming Penny, the Hulk Penny, The Wearing Stretch pants Penny with NY top, The Social go out Penny, the High Pitched Snorts to much laugh Penny.

 

I just find that people still think Leonard seem's infaturated with Penny and Penny seem's okay with that, that can be taken as a good thing, but it also implies Leonard see's his relationship with Penny as nothing more I scored the hot chick! Which was the case in S2 and even S3, but S6 both Leonard and Penny showed tremendous progress in their relationship, a lot of eps showed the change of Leonard scoring the hot chick seeing he is a nerd after all, and Penny settling for a type of guy she doesen't normally go for. It all started in 6x05 The Holographic Excitation, on the back off Bernadette and Amy' advice to show more interest in Leonard's activities, seeing he shows a lot of interest in her's she goes to visit Leonard in the lab one day, Leonard seduces Penny with science haha, and Penny becomes fasinated with Leonard's work and reminds her of why she fell for Leonard in the first place.

 

This is another example of how intellectual Lenny is, on the surface may not seem like it but Penny fell for the science side of Leonard, he is the only guy who has intellectually, emotionally, and physically challenged her on every level, and that lab scene reminded her of that. Prooving their relationship is beyond infaturation or just a physical paradaim, up to that point though Penny was confused about her feelings for Leonard, I think she always deep down has been in love with Leonard, but she lacked the maturity and the required depth to actulize and articulate them in any form or way. Up to Leonard she always dated a certain type of guy, and she never felt she was good enough for a guy like Leonard, and around the beginning of Season 6 remember it was right after Leonard proposed, so things were still a tad awkward between the two, so she was confused. Sheldon was one who showed tremendous growth on his part and told her not to hurt his little buddy, not sure if that had an influence but it certaintly helped. TBH up till the lab scene both Leonard and Penny weren't putting much effort into their relationship, the lab scene brought a new spark into their relationship, and like I said reminded Penny of why she fell for Leonard in the first place, since then they did it in Lab's, Comic Book stores e.t.c. haha. Then you go to The 43 Peculiarity, Penny and Leonard start to deal with trust issues in their relationship when Penny works with a collegue who was not interested in her in anyway but tell Leonard that haha, but Penny was infuriated because even after everything they have been through, the fact he still doesen't trust her hurt her. Later on in the lobby Leonard confesses he still feel's insecure compared to other guys, and that it is his problem, Penny then finnally gets the required depth and without realizing through making clear to Leonard that your the one I am with, confesses her true feelings for Leonard, as it is the first time they have said it, it obviousley embarrasses the both of them.

 

Since then I think things have changed, not only does Leonard have the security knowing Penny loves him, but Leonard has always been the one to show insecurities in the relationship, it is now new terriotory for Penny knowing she now truly loves Leonard, she is the one showing insecurties in their relationship. This was clearly emphasised in The Egg Salad Equivalency, in the episode Alex hit's on Leonard again and invites him to a lecture and dinner, Leonard realizing that she is hitting on him is stunned, as being the object of affection by two beautiful women is not something that has ever happened to him, so he is flattered and of course goes over the top with it haha. This though re-inforced the idea to Penny that she is not a smart as Alex (the very reason they diddn't work out back in S2 because she feels Leonard is too smart for her she has deep seeded insecurities), and made her realize that she needed to work harder in her relationship with Leonard, as she started to realize how much he means to her. Leonard then apologizes and starts to realize Penny's insecurities, that like Penny said she diddn't even realize she had. Later on though she still feel's insecure so to over compensate she gets some glasses, and dresses up as sexy scientist, because of this Leonard finds her both smart and hot lol which really as homage to the pilot "Our babies well be smart and beautiful".

 

This was the second half of the season where Penny was making tremendous progress in her relationship with Leonard, up till The Spoiler Alet Segmentation ep, Leonard got in an argument with Sheldon and had enough and wanted to move in with Penny, in the past if this was S3 or even S4 and S5, Penny would of freaked and probably break up with Leonard, but it showed her progress at that point when she was willing to compromise her intimacy issues and insecurities just to make Leonard happy, it lasted all about 2 days lol but for Penny it was huge progress, maybe it wasen't as noticeble to anyone else but that episode was the start of her trusting Leonard and their relationship a lot more. Hence in 7x02 you saw a lot more comfortability from Penny in terms of Leonard staying with her for 2 or 3 days. Penny's insecurities and intimacy issues were amped up in The Tangible Affection Proof, On Valentine's Day Leonard and Penny are on a double date with Howard and Bernadette, but then Penny see's her ex bf proposing to the women who stole him from her years ago, she start's obsessing which upsets Leonard.

 

Later on Penny reveals her insecurities over marrage and her fears over it, normally if this was S3 Penny would just slam the door in Leonard's face as she did in S3, but Leonard showed the assertiveness to challenge Penny, and make it clear it was not okay what she did. This is the first time in almost 6 years up to that point, Penny started to trust and be a lot more honest with Leonard, it was also the first time their relationship felt validated in that they are both on the same page now. With Leonard giving Penny the power in terms of a proposal in took the pressure off Penny and their relationship. And in the finalie of Season 6 really culminated Penny's maturity, when Leonard got a place on Hawking's expedition, Penny was really supportive even convincing Sheldon this is a good thing for his career, which the car scene showed Leonard was for the time the women he love's, love's him as deeply as he does. So I've never thought for one moment Leonard is infaturated with Penny in some way's yes, but in a lot of ways that changed since Season 2.  

Never said that. You seem to be deliberately or perversely misinterpreting what I said. Anyway I am totally bored with this interaction. I look forward to hearing from you and others when I comment on Ep3 (good bad or ugly).i really hope it is good as I desperately want to enjoy BBT for the rest of S7 and beyond

You said only fangirls/boys of the show thought Kaley's performance was good, I'm assuming your a fan of the show lol? Anyway your entitled to your opinon diddn't mean to undermine your opinion in anyway. Ep 3 looks good anyway

Edited September 30, 2013 by 3ku11

[Carlos]

My personal take away - I'm not reading any more taping reports.  For me, I think it may take away from watching the episodes when they air for the first time.

 

 

I'm with you on that one. I avoid the taping reports as the plague. Only began to read 7.01 and stopped, becuase i want to be surprised to a ceertain extent. I wish I could, but I am NOT able to stay away from spoilers, but try to not get into things that are too specific, so as to go into watching an episode as fresh as possible. 

I found the breast touching nonsense almost a disturbing as the internet kissing machine scene in a previous season. Didn't get the humor at all. Just creepy.

 

And that is why people have different senses of humor. I actually find the kissing machine and the breast touching, (in the context of the show, and between Howard and Raj) to be absolute comedic gold.

[Shamyfan]

I love being spoiled and I love watching the eps live. It's totally different to me.

Reading it is one thing and seeing it is better.

Some reports I wasn't happy with and so was the ep. But was because of things tht happened we on the ep. The reporter did an awesome job. I didn't care for that ep. And yes I'm not big on main focus Lenny eps but that's my opinion

I loved the first two eps of the season.

I liked the 7x2 more. Because of some shamy and raj & Howard.

Raj and Howard cracked me up. Creeped out but still laughed at it.

I'm glad Lenny in a good place. I don't blame Leonard for coming home early spending time w penny.

Shamy was shamy. I loved it. Especially Amy

[notchinc]

Can someone post a photo of Sheldon in his sailor cap? I've seen some gifs, but I NEED one for my wallpaper. He's so adorable in it!!!

[Berliner]

Both Good episodes.

 

A bit of a slow start and a bit too much romcom for my taste. But I won't complain, the season has just started. I just hope we'll see more science stuff, especially from Sheldon - he used to be so smart. As a mathematician I just love it when Sheldon speaks about some interesting physics topics and I'm eager to follow up on that.

 

PS: Thank God they didn't make Raj a total nutjob, now where he is able to speak.

[3ku11]

Both Good episodes.

 

A bit of a slow start and a bit too much romcom for my taste. But I won't complain, the season has just started. I just hope we'll see more science stuff, especially from Sheldon - he used to be so smart. As a mathematician I just love it when Sheldon speaks about some interesting physics topics and I'm eager to follow up on that.

 

PS: Thank God they didn't make Raj a total nutjob, now where he is able to speak.

I get where your coming from but it wasen't a science focused episode, their were a few science line's. But it was a relationship episode dealing with Leonard's return, like I said I am sure as the season progresses well see more science, I'm happy either way thought it was a brilliant start to the season the rating's obviousley agree with me

[annieogly]

Both Good episodes.

 

A bit of a slow start and a bit too much romcom for my taste. But I won't complain, the season has just started. I just hope we'll see more science stuff, especially from Sheldon - he used to be so smart. As a mathematician I just love it when Sheldon speaks about some interesting physics topics and I'm eager to follow up on that.

 

PS: Thank God they didn't make Raj a total nutjob, now where he is able to speak.

Berliner; I'm in total agreement, too much romcom, & I hope to gods they hired their scientist advisor back, they could have made some funny jokes at the post-doc mixer but nothing. Remember the classic Flatland with Sheldon and Martha *sigh*.  Anyway I found Howard and Raj feeling each other utterly hilarious, it was the only moment during the two shows that I laughed aloud.

 

Last season had a disappointing few shows and then the fall was very funny, so I am trying to be hopeful.

[3ku11]

Berliner; I'm in total agreement, too much romcom, & I hope to gods they hired their scientist advisor back, they could have made some funny jokes at the post-doc mixer but nothing. Remember the classic Flatland with Sheldon and Martha *sigh*.  Anyway I found Howard and Raj feeling each other utterly hilarious, it was the only moment during the two shows that I laughed aloud.

 

Last season had a disappointing few shows and then the fall was very funny, so I am trying to be hopeful.

Yeah but your forgetting the current place's these character's are in, I laughed out loud mostly through both episode's but that's just me. Yes it has turned more rom-comish, but that is probably why the ratings are so high right now, it has become a lot more serialized. I am not worried about the lack of science, their priorities are shifting, yeah they are eggheads, but they are also people so they are maturing, beside's it wasen't a science focused episode at all, early days.

[Occam's Chainsaw]

Berliner; I'm in total agreement, too much romcom, & I hope to gods they hired their scientist advisor back, they could have made some funny jokes at the post-doc mixer but nothing. Remember the classic Flatland with Sheldon and Martha *sigh*.  Anyway I found Howard and Raj feeling each other utterly hilarious, it was the only moment during the two shows that I laughed aloud.

 

Last season had a disappointing few shows and then the fall was very funny, so I am trying to be hopeful.

Most of the jokes they could have made with the mixer would have totally ruined the point of the story-line. Raj can't connect with women romantically because he can't get past himself, he needed to talk to a woman he was not overly familiar with and was not sexually attracted to who he could connect with on a personal level so he can learn to treat women as people instead of as objects. Most of the jokes would have required him to actually be getting somewhere talking to a woman, or would have been made at his expense, which probably have fallen flat.

 

As much as people like  science references in the show being a scientist is only one dimension of these complex characters. So just as every episode can't be about them dressing in superhero costumes or talking about Star Trek, every episode can't be about them talking about science. The relationships are the focus right now because for the first half of the series relationships were secondary, and now they are getting the spotlight since all of the characters are human beings who want to be in relationships of some sort. Plus all the relationships are at crucial points of transition right now; Howard and Bernadette are married but as we've seen they've started to reach the end of the "Honeymoon Phase" (domestic squabbles like in "Tangible Affection"), Leonard and Penny are on the cusp of serious commitment (cohabitation, marriage), Sheldon and Amy are approaching the beginning of a physical relationship, and Raj is finally able to begin working on a real relationship now that he is over his selective mutism.

[koops]

The science advisor never left. He was at Comic Con this year. Just because the show doesn't include Sheldon-physics monologues every episode (like it ever did in the past anyway!) does not mean there are no science references. There were at least 6 or 7 science references, that I can think off the top of my head, in the first episode alone. And it's hardly like these were relationship-episodes, unless, of course, one counts friendships as relationship. Which I guess they are. But then it was a relationship-com since the Pilot.

 

Raj going to mixers to pick up girls was indeed done before. How is this different? Because, instead of Flatland being the topic of conversation, it's Neural Nets and the Van Allen belt and infidelity in penguins? Actually, Flatland and the Green Lantern were nerd references, not science references. The ones at the current mixer between Raj and the awkward post-doc/Mrs Davis WERE science references. Not only that, but they were hilarious if you have ever been to a talk or a conference because those awkward conversations about "My paper is in XY"/"I'll read it"/"Cool" are SO true to life! 

Edited October 1, 2013 by koops

[menamena]

^koops: I agree with most of it except the Science Advisor did leave the show in S06 to work at CERN or some sort of conference for a year. But he's back this season. 

[koops]

^koops: I agree with most of it except the Science Advisor did leave the show in S06 to work at CERN or some sort of conference for a year. But he's back this season. 

 

As far as I understand he was still looking over the scripts though. What I mean is, they didn't fire him, he was just on leave, sort of like Bill Prady is at the moment.

[3ku11]

Also go back to the pilot "Our babie's well be smart and beautiful", sound's pretty romcomish too me, of course with a drip of Science .