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7.03 "the Scavenger Vortex" (October 3)


Tripper
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Sorry ... But the writers can write what they want ... Doesn't mean the viewers are always gonna buy into it.

I predict that when Leonard and Penny do tie the knot, this show's gonna jump the shark. Waiting to see TV's most boring couple ride off into the sunset is going to turn off LOTS of viewers. (And I know I'm not alone out here!)

So, for the show's sake, I hope they put it off until the series finale!

You are absolutely correct; the writers can and will write whatever they want. However, and that is a substantial however, good writers have to abide by their own rules. Stories have to be internally consistent so Act three can provide the answers to the questions asked or the issues raised in Act one. In this regard, creative freedom means the right to obey faithfully one's own set of rules (e.g R2D2 cannot have the ability to fly in SW ep. VI and be reduced to a glorified pedal bin twenty years later in SW ep. I... Yeah, I am looking at you, George !). 

 

One of TBBT's rules is that Leonard is in love with Penny. It was set in stone in the very first episode.

Why did he fall in love with her ? How ? When ? Who's on first ? All very valid questions for the exact nature of said love and the reasons behind it were initially left to the audience's imagination (over the years, the writers have provided some nice clues). Yet it is part of TBBT canon and it is not going to change. Why ? Short answer : because. Long answer ; because TPTB decided it would be this way when they wrote the pilot and they have been stuck with it ever since. Very happily so, it seems to me.

As BangerMain (and many others) wrote, "smart and beautiful" babies are canon. Not there yet, but canon. As canon as Sheldon's evil genius tendencies, Howard's mommy issues, Bernadette's diabolical streak, Raj's first-world problems, Amy's patience and Leonard's lactose intolerance. 

 

I can assure you I do not state this because I feel threatened by your opinion and I do appreciate that it cannot be easy to be in a minority when faced with a very vocal larger group. Shennys, Peldons, Hamys, Berdons, Pamys and all other groups are perfectly fine by me. Each 'ship has its crazies (better to avoid those) but overall everyone is pretty nice and respectful. 'Shipping this or that pairing does not hurt anyone nor does it diminish anybody's pleasure in the show.

Above all, it does not alter TBBT's canon. 

Therefore, when you state that Penny and Leonard getting married/having children would be "jumping the shark" and drive viewers away in huge numbers, I have to confess I cannot follow your (or said viewers') logic. TPTB can be faulted for a few things but they have never been particularly disingenuous. In the pilot, they gave away the ending : smart and beautiful... So, if some viewers are left disappointed or feeling betrayed when it does happen, I will have to wonder what exactly their (reasonable) expectations were, based on what was shown and said onscreen. 

Edited by Chiara
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Some of the people who criticize Leonard for some of his actions are missing the very important fact that Leonard is socailly inept.  Yes, he is better then the rest of the gang, but that is setting the bar extremely low.  Just because a pygmy is taller then his friends doesn't mean that he can play in the NBA.   As for Leonard only loving for her physical appearance,  that is what first attracted him to her, which shocking as it may be is the same thing that initially attracks men to the women they marry, but to think is why he loves her now is ignoring everything that has happened in his life since he met her.   IMO Priya was just as attractive as Penny if not more so, but it was obvioius that even while he was dating Priya he had strong feeling for Penny. 

 

Since I am just as socially inept as Leonard, perhaps more so, I feel quit free to point out his dumbest mistakes. With that in mind they could have a lot of fun with a spin-off 14-20 years after Penny and Leonard marry and he has to figure out how to be a Dad with teenage kids. The years Penny and Leonard are in now are actually the easy years!

Being socially inept could definitely be at the root of Leonard blurting out that he did not want to be paired with Penny in the game but it is not so easy to explain away why he rewrote that essay in s6. In that case academic honesty comes into play.

Edited by djsurrey

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Not to offend anyone, but since I came back to these forums I've found that a lot of the relationship-addicted idiots have joined these forums. Am I the only one who finds it absolutely obnoxious? It's annoying having to scroll through posts of people saying "Oh, Sheldon better watch out because it's Howmy!" Tone it down at the very least FFS!

 

On-topic:

 

Other than the scene with Leonard being insulted for being a "lady part" (which I found quite sexist), I loved the episode! 5/5

No, you're not the only one. But it's a losing battle. The relationship-addicted idiots posters have taken over. You can't battle emotionalism.

Let the slumber party continue!

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YES! I WIN! My brain is better than everybodies!

 

Okay, so you guys didn't know the the minute this wonderful episode and it's discussion was hijacked into another round of the fucking Shenny war that I noted to my friends that it would and only could end in a statement about how the rest of us, who have absolutely no problem with the current canon, indeed, love it which is why we're watching, would find out from the newest Shenny addition that we're all simply THREATENED BY THE POWER OF SHENNY.

To be fair, it does not seem easy to be a Shenny. BigBangWeary stated his/her (sorry, I did not check) opinion and ended up discussing with 6 or 7 people (self included, my brain is no better than ANYBODY'S !) who disagreed with him/her, all at once. It cannot be comfortable and, when faced with such an (involuntary) barrage of opposition, defensiveness is bound to come out to play at some point.

 

The Shenny is fine. It does not hurt anyone. I, for one, am no big fan of it (I am probably more of a... What was it ? Peldon ?, in this regard) but it is OK. Let us all have a piece of pi and everything wil be great again ! ;)

Edited by Chiara
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I hate that the thread for such a wonderful, fun episode has turned into this.  :swoon:

True. I can't help wondering myself: what tf is it You're all babbling about? (Or not ALL, but still too many.. you know...)

"Sheldon and Penny becoming a couple"? "Sheldon ans Penny tying the knot"?

Seriously, have You all watched a completely different show than I did the last few years?!

 

And what on earth have all these delusional speculations to do with this week's episode?!

From "next to nothig" to "nothing", pick a number, any number.

 

I know, fans are bound to speculate about so many aspects of their favorite show - I don't have to be told, I'm not a stranger to fandom. I'm quite familiar with that phenomenon from the DoctorWho-Forum, but this is simply rediculous! (And I know, as a Newby I should better be humble and quiet, but I just can't help it.)

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I hate that the thread for such a wonderful, fun episode has turned into this.  :swoon:

 

Yeah, that's the nice way of stating my point.

 

I like my Pi in apple, please.

 

I don't doubt that it's difficult being a Shenny. My sympathies to it have been expressed before, but then, so has my feeling towards thread hijacking.

 

I have no idea if this is helpful to point out or not, but I'll give it a shot anyway: part of the reason why it's an uphill battle is that it's pretty much a position which has defaulted into nothing more than a complaint and criticism. The show is one way, and has a massive fan base of support and enjoyment for the way it's gone, mostly. There's a vote on whether Amy should leave the show or not, the current vote stands at 20% pro her departure, and 8O% pro her staying. Another poll on this site regarding whether Sheldon should be with Penny also comes down to 20% for it, 8O% against. So that would seem the basic statistical split, if you want to go by the numbers, so the argument will always end up holding to about a 3 against 1 average, and yes, that means as a Shenny you'll be outnumbered. If you want to throw down the gauntlet and complain that the show should be a way other than it currently is, that's your odds.

 

Tough, but if you're plucky and passionately believe in it, perhaps you can't help but stick up for it like a Spartan. Nevertheless, you're 1 against 3 who are just as passionate and plucky and adore what they have, and so the battle ensues. I think both sides are coming out of the same place - they like what they like and are going to stick up for it. The fact that it's the same fight over and over - so predictable now that I can anticipate it word for word - is just part of the game.

 

Edited to add: apparently you can't type the number eighty without getting an emoticon. *shakes fist* Damn you emoticons!

Edited by Lionne

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There you go. Careful it is hot.

 

YES! God, that looks delicious. Well, 'tis the season for apples...my driveway is lined with 4 apple trees on each side, and they are full of apples at the moment. Mostly we use them to make homemade cider, but I think I might dust off my apron and go for pies tomorrow.

 

I know TONS of people who like apple but I'm allergic...

 

Oh! That is sad! Apple pie is delicious, and I make a pretty good one. However, my cherry and blueberry pies usually do well also. I can whip you up one of those if you like.

 

But now for an interesting point which came out of the actual episode:

 

While Leonard might eventually grow more reassured in his relationship with Penny, I'm not sure that he's ever going to get over being a fixer. Also, I'd like to point out that in this situation, Leonard was not just fretting over nothing. Penny was actually upset with him, they had an actual fight over the issue of picking partners. It's not like Leonard was fixating, over-analyzing, or slipping into insecurity over nothing. Frankly, that's still signs of an improvement - we've seen him dissolve into panic attacks over less.

 

Also, I like the fact that once Bernadette suggested he was being a "ninny" about it, Leonard bucked up.

 

I was reading a fan fic once that featured Leonard speaking "sternly" to Penny, and being very masculine and firm with her. In response, Penny crumbled into tears and apologized to Leonard and went to explain herself. I stopped cold and had to reread it like 10 times before shaking my head and realizing that that was never going to be the relationship dynamic Leonard and Penny have, no matter if some fantasize that's how it should be. Like Penny complaining to Leonard about letting her be the girl in the relationship for once, Leonard and Penny's gender roles in the relationship are reversed. That's one of the interesting things about it, although I can understand some people are turned off by Leonard being less than the masculine ideal, or Penny less than the feminine ideal. (Leonard does confront her from time to time, but Penny doesn't crumble. This is where a lot of their comedy and romantic tension comes from - they defy expectations and neither can be pigeon-holed into stereotypical romantic standards of the perfect alpha male and his female love interest.

 

This is part of what I love about the show. Last week, having Howard and Raj partake in boob shaking antics usually reserved for making your female lead with the best rack have to perform, was another time they took the usual gender jokes or behavior and turned it on it's head. I find it fun to watch, but perhaps it's not for everyone.

 

Another note about this episode and the past few weeks - I love the fact that I can see the difference between mute Raj, drunk Raj, and now not mute but sober Raj. The difference is subtle, but I think that Kunal is playing is beautifully and the writers are handling it well. Raj can talk to women now, but he's definitely more "himself" as we know him with the guys, rather than the mildly offensive, often incompetent "player" who comes out when Raj is drunk. It's really nice seeing these subtle differences handled so well I barely even notice how finely drawn the changes they're making really are.

Edited by Lionne
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Oh! That is sad! Apple pie is delicious, and I make a pretty good one. However, my cherry and blueberry pies usually do well also. I can whip you up one of those if you like.

 

Love blueberry pie!

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Love blueberry pie!

 

Speaking of blueberry pie, did you notice that Amy was solving a little mass of the puzzle and not starting with the corners?

 

What is WRONG with this show? Turning Amy into some flaky hippie.

 

There. I have a complaint!

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YES! God, that looks delicious. Well, 'tis the season for apples...my driveway is lined with 4 apple trees on each side, and they are full of apples at the moment. Mostly we use them to make homemade cider, but I think I might dust off my apron and go for pies tomorrow.

 

 

But now for an interesting point which came out of the actual episode:

 

While Leonard might eventually grow more reassured in his relationship with Penny, I'm not sure that he's ever going to get over being a fixer. Also, I'd like to point out that in this situation, Leonard was not just fretting over nothing. Penny was actually upset with him, they had an actual fight over the issue of picking partners. It's not like Leonard was fixating, over-analyzing, or slipping into insecurity over nothing. Frankly, that's still signs of an improvement - we've seen him dissolve into panic attacks over less.

 

Also, I like the fact that once Bernadette suggested he was being a "ninny" about it, Leonard bucked up.

 

I was reading a fan fic once that featured Leonard speaking "sternly" to Penny, and being very masculine and firm with her. In response, Penny crumbled into tears and apologized to Leonard and went to explain herself. I stopped cold and had to reread it like 10 times before shaking my head and realizing that that was never going to be the relationship dynamic Leonard and Penny have, no matter if some fantasize that's how it should be. Like Penny complaining to Leonard about letting her be the girl in the relationship for once, Leonard and Penny's gender roles in the relationship are reversed. That's one of the interesting things about it, although I can understand some people are turned off by Leonard being less than the masculine ideal, or Penny less than the feminine ideal. (Leonard does confront her from time to time, but Penny doesn't crumble. This is where a lot of their comedy and romantic tension comes from - they defy expectations and neither can be pigeon-holed into stereotypical romantic standards of the perfect alpha male and his female love interest.

 

 

I agree with most of what you said. In actuality I don't think she was that upset. She got over it quickly. It was funny he did buck up with what Bernadette said. I did notice the L/P fan fiction while entertaining really doesn't show the true Leonard and Penny relationship. Your description of how they are is spot on.

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An immensely better episode than the first two.    The unusual forced pairings in the scavenger hunt (especially Amy and Howard, hard to believe they have had so few scenes together over the years) were very funny and took advantage of the actors/characters strengths to full effect.    And Raj's smug "when we do things together we're all winners" only to get rage from the others is hilarious.

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Speaking of blueberry pie, did you notice that Amy was solving a little mass of the puzzle and not starting with the corners?

 

What is WRONG with this show? Turning Amy into some flaky hippie.

 

There. I have a complaint!

 

I saw your "godless hippies" remark on the other forum! LOL!

I, too, was raised in the "start with the edges and corners" school of puzzle-making.

 

I wondered about poor Leonard and Bernie having to A) work on the floor and B ) have to work with that rug pattern in the background.  No wonder she was frustrated! :p

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I saw your "godless hippies" remark on the other forum! LOL!

I, too, was raised in the "start with the edges and corners" school of puzzle-making.

 

I wondered about poor Leonard and Bernie having to A) work on the floor and B ) have to work with that rug pattern in the background.  No wonder she was frustrated! :p

I don't think we have seen Amy smile so much for so long as she did singing with Howard. It was nice to see.

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I wish I could place a bet with you, because Lenny has always been the fan favourite couple from the pilot. The proportion of people who voice their hate of the couple online and perhaps those you have spoken to are a minuscule audience compared to the 20 million plus viewers who tune in because they love the show. If Leonard and Penny tie the knot, I can almost guarantee the ratings will be, at the worst, unaffected.

Yes. It could not hurt although I don't think they will do this soon. I have noticed the more central characters change more slowly that the more peripheral characters. Probably a safe move.

 

Funny I was preparing a response to one of your other posts but when I hit Quote I could not. When I hit refresh you post was gone. I take it you deleted your pie post.

Edited by djsurrey

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Funny I was preparing a response to one of your other posts but when I hit Quote I could not. When I hit refresh you post was gone. I take it you deleted your pie post.

 

It's not there? I deleted it because I wanted to edit it and those big orange edit bars at the bottom get on my nerves for some reason when I've only written a short sentence. I did re-write it but I guess there was some sort of hiccup in my connection. Darn it :(

 

Oh and I will edit to say that said post was a lame joke about it being obvious what my favourite pie was ;)

Edited by Razberrypie

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It's so weird how defensive certain people get about the relationships.

And count me in as someone else who finds these conversations yawn-inducing. This episode wasn't even that relationship-heavy, FFS.

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It's not there? I deleted it because I wanted to edit it and those big orange edit bars at the bottom get on my nerves for some reason when I've only written a short sentence. I did re-write it but I guess there was some sort of hiccup in my connection. Darn it :(

 

Oh and I will edit to say that said post was a lame joke about it being obvious what my favourite pie was ;)

By your user name.  Since you are from the UK I was wondering if you actually are talking about the Raspberry Pi or just a raspberry pie.

 

http://www.seductionmeals.com/fresh_raspberry_pie.jpg

 

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Speaking of blueberry pie, did you notice that Amy was solving a little mass of the puzzle and not starting with the corners?

 

What is WRONG with this show? Turning Amy into some flaky hippie.

 

There. I have a complaint!

 

Well she's a girl.  She likes all kinds of hippie dippy things...

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By your user name.  Since you are from the UK I was wondering if you actually are talking about the Raspberry Pi or just a raspberry pie.

 

Interesting! I hadn't heard of the Raspberry Pi until I heard a friend (who is obsessed with building gadgets) talk endlessly about wanting to get his hands on such a thing. I'd already joined the site then so it was a sorta funny coincidence :p.

 

ETA: darn it, sorry for going off topic! I'll run off now ;)

Edited by Razberrypie

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