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7.03 "the Scavenger Vortex" (October 3)


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I do agree wholeheartedly with what you say. The writers clearly cranked up the outsiders factor to make the characters' interactions more interesting. 

However, I can believe Howard, Raj, Leonard, Sheldon and Amy were not particularly (or at all) popular at their respective schools. When the show started, Howard was a complete creep, Raj could not talk to half the human population, Leonard had severe social anxiety and foot-in-mouth issues, Sheldon was... Sheldon and Amy was a tad robotic. They are all much better now, but assuming all of them already displayed such characteristics during their high school and university years, I can see why they would not have had that many (if any) close friends. 

But what Amy described was downright Carrie-ish : people designing fake games to humiliate her, refusing to be on her team no matter what... That is just vile.

 

I can't talk for US schools much, but, going by the assumption that Ivies are pretty similar to Oxbridge, and from what I heard from the people I know who went to/are at Ivies, there seem to be people that are even worse than these characters were at their worst (although I do have to admit I haven't heard great things about Princeton as an environment). What I meant isn't in the sense of "everyone fits in at university because you grow up" but in the sense that these schools can be a melting pot of weirdos of the best kind, so there's a flavor for anybody and it is very rare that someone won't find some context to fit in. So I find it hard to believe that all of them had such a hard time. Like I said, yes, Raj could not talk when sober but drinking is pretty big in Britain, and a guy like him, with all those ideas for parties and stuff, would have been one of the most popular ones at Cambridge.

 

Also, the one thing we constantly hear about is how Amy's mother always kept her very sheltered. But if she went off to school on the East Coast, then that premise also kind of falls though, as surely her mother wouldn't have been able to keep tabs on her as much. Having said that, it is true that Amy also sounded like she used to embrace her mother's advice and only now is starting to realize what was happening and how absurd it was ("She was full of funny lies like that"), so maybe she kind of sheltered herself too, unknowingly. 

 

Again, it's one of those things were I think suspension of disbelief is necessary for the premise to work. While knowing where the characters come from is important, it's the here and now that matters the most to the writers.

 

And, one last eta unrelated to this specific topic: I think "Good times never seemed so good" is a perfectly fitting line for how the season has kicked off. So good, so good, SO GOOD!

Edited by koops
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I think Sheldon is easily the main influence in Amy's life and where she is right now. Acceptance is the first step to growth and Sheldon truly accepted Amy, quirks and all and managed to relate to he

I think you are kind of refuting your own argument here. If his mother never gave him love then why would he want to be with a woman like his mother? Did you just mean the brains part? If so I stil

Such a funny episode. The geekiness came back in full force and I could not have been happier about it.   Raj's light-and-sound show was perfectly goofy. His Bond villain-like appearance at the end

I laughed out loud when Penny checked with Amy over "liability." It was so quick and brief, as well, it spoke to the chemistry of their friendship. Penny only glanced at Amy, Amy knew what she needed and gave it to her. So adorable - might be my favorite Amy/Penny moment ever.

 

After rewatching, I assume that Penny has really sucked at Raj's murder mysteries in the past. Otherwise, I'm not sure why no one would want to be paired with her, because Penny has always been an ace at games. If anyone should know that, Leonard should. I think Sheldon and Penny would have won that entire race if Sheldon was not so pendantic, but obviously there was a lot of clues which we didn't see at all, such as the bowling alley, the tar pits, and one other place the name of which I don't remember.

 

TBBT is opening up hot and adorable this year. Hope they keep this fun momentum going, and I love love LOVE the fresh new pairings. TBBT really hit on a stroke of luck I haven't seen since Friends - you can pair any of these 7 together and get some interesting dynamics that are funny to explore.

 

As for Amy and Howard - aWard, Hamy, AmyHow - I can't decide which one is better. You'll have to battle it out to the bloody end and declare a winner. At which point I'll dither and bitch about it. Have fun!

 

I also love that Sheldon and Amy were totally enrapt with Raj at the beginning, while Penny, Bernadette and Howard were befuddled or not amused. And, so cutely, Leonard tried to be cool about what Raj was doing, but he folded like a Renaissance triptych and was grinning ear-to-ear and dancing to the music in his chair. God bless you, Leonard, if only you could be my boyfriend.

 

I think the reason none of the gang wanted to be paired with her for the hunt was because the clues were going to be science-based.  I don't think it had anything to do with her performance in other games--I'm sure she could have killed it at a Murder Mystery game, but it seems as if none of them really wanted to do them.

 

But regardless of her street smarts, they all were thinking of how clues would be science-based, and area in which she has no background.  Although she could figure out that the "stone" they had to turn was the Rolling Stones poster, she would NEVER have figured out the clue that got them to the Geology department, so whoever she got paired with would have been figuring out all the scientific aspects of everything.

 

At any rate, I also loved seeing Sheldon's brain at work.  Y'all know I love me some "baby Shelly" (it's a disease, I know), but I also love Science Mastermind Sheldon and I loved that he took one glance at the clue in the Comic Book Store and knew what it was immediately--and I loved his explanation.  And I loved that he knew at one glance that the clue under the poster was map coordinates and that he memorized them at once glance.  "MY BRAIN IS BETTER THAN EVERYONE'S!!" indeed! :biggrin:

 

And I loved the juxtaposition of "I'm not a child" with his cluelessness about what name they were talking about.  Ninny...ah, poor Shelly. :p

 

Brilliant episode, but for one flaw--the idea that Raj was able to slip a coin into each person's pocket without them knowing.  I like the idea that he wanted everyone to win (and that he assumed that whoever got Penny would lose...), but it didn't make sense that he was able to do that.

I wonder if that question will come up at ComicCon some day... :p

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What I meant isn't in the sense of "everyone fits in at university because you grow up" but in the sense that these schools can be a melting pot of weirdos of the best kind, so there's a flavor for anybody and it is very rare that someone won't find some context to fit in.

You are right. They all, including Amy, probably would have had friends at university. But, as you say, said friends would have been very similar to them and their social experiences would therefore have been rather confined to a rather narrow range.

Bah, it is a sitcom anyway. I should not get so bothered. Amy is fine !

 

Also, the one thing we constantly hear about is how Amy's mother always kept her very sheltered. But if she went off to school on the East Coast, then that premise also kind of falls though, as surely her mother wouldn't have been able to keep tabs on her as much. Having said that, it is true that Amy also sounded like she used to embrace her mother's advice and only now is starting to realize what was happening and how absurd it was ("She was full of funny lies like that"), so maybe she kind of sheltered herself too, unknowingly.

Very Carrie-like, again ;)

 

 

But regardless of her street smarts, they all were thinking of how clues would be science-based, and area in which she has no background.  Although she could figure out that the "stone" they had to turn was the Rolling Stones poster, she would NEVER have figured out the clue that got them to the Geology department, so whoever she got paired with would have been figuring out all the scientific aspects of everything.

You make a very good point. However, given that the scavenger hunt had been designed by Raj, they could also have expected the whole process to be quite heavily geek-flavoured (geek as in comic books, medieval fantasy and the like). As a matter of fact, it was : the riddle contained a reference to an obscure superhero only the guys could have known. So had they been paired together, Amy and Bernadette (for all their scientific knowledge) would have been completely lost. 

Yet I doubt our favourite neuroscientist would have recoiled at the idea of being associated with the diminutive (and soul crushing) Mrs Wolowitz.

 

So there was an element of "anyone but Penny"...

 

At any rate, I also loved seeing Sheldon's brain at work.  Y'all know I love me some "baby Shelly" (it's a disease, I know), but I also love Science Mastermind Sheldon and I loved that he took one glance at the clue in the Comic Book Store and knew what it was immediately--and I loved his explanation.  And I loved that he knew at one glance that the clue under the poster was map coordinates and that he memorized them at once glance.  "MY BRAIN IS BETTER THAN EVERYONE'S!!" indeed! :biggrin:

How could I forget that line ? It was genius. And so was Sheldon's facial expression !

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Well it all sounds excellent, between reading the reviews here, and on that pink forum, and on Paradox. I'm glad you're all HAPPY. I'm not sulking at all about Australia being the slow child of International Broadcasting. And don't talk to me about downloads...they're both beyond my ken AND my internet capacity, which is apparently under the impression it is dwelling in the steam-powered age.

Mark my words though, I shall return with thoughts on this episode, once the antipodes has entered The Future. Or the Present. I'd settle for the Present...

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Well it all sounds excellent, between reading the reviews here, and on that pink forum, and on Paradox. I'm glad you're all HAPPY. I'm not sulking at all about Australia being the slow child of International Broadcasting. And don't talk to me about downloads...they're both beyond my ken AND my internet capacity, which is apparently under the impression it is dwelling in the steam-powered age.

Mark my words though, I shall return with thoughts on this episode, once the antipodes has entered The Future. Or the Present. I'd settle for the Present...

Have you considered moving ? I think you should. TBBT is definitely reason enough to uproot yourself and your family, I believe. Furthermore, aside from the nauseatingly good weather, the beauty of the Victorian Alps, the sweeping majesty of Uluru, the sheer magnificence of the Great Ocean Road, the sublime quality of the Great Barrier Reef, the mind boggling flora and fauna, and the people, what does Australia have that other countries do not ?

 

 

PS Where have all my "like this" gone again ? Can't I just use some of those I got (or would that be considered rude regifting) ?

Edited by Chiara
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You are right. They all, including Amy, probably would have had friends at university. But, as you say, said friends would have been very similar to them and their social experiences would therefore have been rather confined to a rather narrow range.

Bah, it is a sitcom anyway. I should not get so bothered. Amy is fine !

 

Yup, that's what I meant, in a sense. But I'd say their experiences are indeed confined to a narrow range even within the context of the show, despite Penny's presence, due to the fact that they are all very similar to each other, albeit each with different types of quirks. Also, with the exception of Leonard, they all ended up dating people who are very similar to them (even with H/B: Howard's "quirk" was his creepiness but we have seen several time that Bernadette sounds quite... adventurous in the bedroom). But that's true to life in any situation, people tend to stick with like-minded people, with a few exceptions here and there.

 

What is hard for "nerds" (and I use this term very loosely here), particularly when they're really young, is to find like-minded people to befriend. The experiences Leonard and Amy often talk about sound more like high-school than college or grad school. The show is telling us the story of these people finding other like-minded people they can build friendships/relationships with, as if university had been essentially high-school and their post-docs/academic careers is university. They shifted the timeframe of this type of development by 5-10 years to fit the premise of the show, which of course involves meeting Penny and how that affected their lives. What I'm saying is that, if they wanted to shift the timeframe, their stories of bullying and oucasts would have been more realistic had the writers had them go to a crappy community college or some big football school rather than Harvard, Princeton, MIT and Cambridge. But they want to make the point that these people are very bright and went to competitive schools whilst at the same time be outcasts and bullied at those same schools. It's a bit of the writers wanting to have their cakes and eat it too. Sheldon is the only one who can reasonably get away with saying he had never experienced anything due to his child prodigy status: even if he had gone to Harvard, being 11, he wouldn't have made friends.

 

But, like we said, it's a sitcom so sometimes all this demand for realism is a bit excessive. The whole tenure procedure last year was just as inaccurate, if not more. :p

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My god this episode was funny! Bernadette just made L.O.L :D Howard and Amy where so embarrassing to watch but very funny, love their performance at the end with their cute jump haha. 
When Leonard dived on the sofa for the coin and then they where all scrapping over the area, so funny :D I really wanted Penny to say that she figure out some of it though. 

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OMG I laughed so hard about Amy and Howard *LOL* they were just awesome! (Amy shouldn`t have said that The Beatles are boring okay ´cause they´re not IMO so shame on you Amy *LOL* But I still love Amy she was so funny !) Never really heard of Neil Deimond but whatever I`m too young *LOL*
Bernadette and Leonard were very amusing too OMG Bernie yelled at Leonard. Poor thing *LOL*

And Penny and Sheldon were awesome too! Sheldon was on fire and so was she! They made a great team!

Raj was on fire too! He´s a really good showman (Sheldon was right!)

Hehe loved it when Sheldon came into the apartment at the end and said he won *LOL*

 

Yeah that episode was better than I thought because when I read something its mostly not as funny as when I watch it on screen.

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The thing with Amy and not really having proper friends is part of the reason for all the comments she made to penny in the past, she had not had enough experience in friendships to know how to act appropriately but now she is a great part of the trio

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Best episode in a long time.

 

"Sweet Caroline!"

 

even got the science back into it!

 

Only concern - Given the goodbye scene at the end on S6.....Penny and Leonard seem a lot 'less close' since his return from the North Sea - Hope we aren't in for another will they/won't they break up saga.

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^Yeah got admit bit concerned too, not too much tho. I just think Leonard being more assertive, domenerring is a new behavoral trait he's bringing to the relationship. His behaviour like being less romantic maybe or ardent in the next month or so maybe a result of his expedition, so it maybe phyiscally manifesting itself onto their relationship. Don't forget Leonard and Penny haven't seen each other in four months, so maybe right now they are struggling to regain the rytham back in their relationship. Not too worried though, Penny was so surprised and happy to have Leonard back, it may just be the case of Leonard and Penny testing the boundaries of this new relationship. For the first time in his life Leonard loves a women who loves him deeply as he does, so when it comes to 7.04 with Beverley wrecking havoc on their relationship, and Leonard monopolizing the situation, he's being a guy and he maybe showing tendencies of Penny's former bf's. Like I said I beleive Leonard's expedition being the life of the boat, as given him an edge and almost a form of cockiness, so it's physically manifestesting it self onto their relationship. Most likely Penny well get back at Leonard with Beverly, which is an error of judgement from Penny, but give her the benefit of the doubt, she's in unchartered terriotory too relationship wise, besides she well prob end up regretting it. And Penny well bring Leonard back down to earth, besides I think they are cuddling on the couch watching a DVD in the next ep, while their friends argue about their relationships oh the irony ;).

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Lenny are going to be fine. Molaro has made it plenty clear in his interviews. No need to worry, they are bound to bicker every once in a while, like all the couples on the show. They won't break up :)

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Have you considered moving ? I think you should. TBBT is definitely reason enough to uproot yourself and your family, I believe. Furthermore, aside from the nauseatingly good weather, the beauty of the Victorian Alps, the sweeping majesty of Uluru, the sheer magnificence of the Great Ocean Road, the sublime quality of the Great Barrier Reef, the mind boggling flora and fauna, and the people, what does Australia have that other countries do not ?

 

And, more importantly, what have the Romans ever done for us?

I've considered moving, but given that I’ve spent the past nine years living out of a suitcase and wafting around Europe like some sort of impoverished Von Aschenbach (without the Nordic-child fixation), I think moving AGAIN might be considered a little clichéd. I also don’t think my mother would stand for it.

 

For the record, from what little I’ve seen of this episode, and certainly from what I’ve seen in the past, mixing up the character pairings is an excellent and long-neglected concept. Different characters allows different aspects of other characters to emerge. Variety (not the magazine) should be flung at these people, not endless harping on the same issues, if you want them to develop or broaden. Two different notions there, incidentally. Temporal and spatial. I do not wish Sheldon to “develop”, because then he loses his fixed, allegorical qualities, as representative of a precise philosophical idea. In my view of Sheldon, this would be the Quest for Truth.  I might, however, wish him to broaden, in that other aspects of his fixed nature are brought into view.

 

Without tooting the mournful horn of the Nostalgic, one of the principle charms of the earlier seasons was that there was a lot of integration of the characters. As mainstays, Penny sparred with Sheldon, certainly, and Leonard wooed Penny, but mostly it was the four chaps (with Penny as the Alien Interloper) dealing with their individual problems. I found season 5 and 6 a little claustrophobic, in that, come hell or high water, Leonard was with Penny, Sheldon was with Amy and Howard with Bernadette. And Raj with any number of things, sentient or otherwise.

 

My interest in Sheldon is not limited to how he deals with a solitary, very specific person, and yet essentially that’s what a couple-orientated episode will give you. I have no choice but to watch this, if I want to watch Sheldon, and that’s terribly restrictive for me. If you are interested in Leonard as a character, repetitive episodes of him canoodling or fighting with Penny are not going to give the same character breadth as Leonard dealing with Gablehauser, or his mother, or perhaps a hero of his, or indeed dealing with his own nature, to himself. Having some sort of epiphany.

 

I liked the concept of Amy relaxing for once, and enjoying herself with Howard. It reminded me of when she went out with Leonard. I can’t help but think that Sheldon has a mildly repressive effect on Amy’s personality. I actually quite like Amy, and it depresses me a little what a miserable situation she seems to be in.

 

I say this as someone with no axe to grind whatever. I wish Sheldon were single, true. I think it’s ignominious and ridiculous for Homo Novus to have a “girlfriend”. However I’m not part of an “agenda”. My fanfiction preferences are just that, fanfiction. Yes, if a harpoon were at my head, and I had to choose a "girlfriend" for Sheldon, I'd choose someone more like Penny. But regardless, it's a wistful wish that things were different, not a crusade I’m on.

God knows why I Yoda-ised that last sentence….

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What the hell?!?!  Way to ruin several seasons worth of character development for Leonard!!!  Just when I thought he was finally growing a backbone and some actual confidence, in a split second he turned right back into season 1 Leonard, so terrified of doing the slightest thing to upset precious Penny... He devolved into exactly what Bernadette was implying he was... one of the worst episodes of the show...

 

Also, Sheldon was the only one who took the time to finish the entire puzzle, and his reasoning was well founded... I find it odd he was the only one amongst a group of brainiacs who even considered the fact that additional clues could have been hidden in it.

Edited by SydNC

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And, more importantly, what have the Romans ever done for us?

I've considered moving, but given that I’ve spent the past nine years living out of a suitcase and wafting around Europe like some sort of impoverished Von Aschenbach (without the Nordic-child fixation), I think moving AGAIN might be considered a little clichéd. I also don’t think my mother would stand for it.

 

For the record, from what little I’ve seen of this episode, and certainly from what I’ve seen in the past, mixing up the character pairings is an excellent and long-neglected concept. Different characters allows different aspects of other characters to emerge. Variety (not the magazine) should be flung at these people, not endless harping on the same issues, if you want them to develop or broaden. Two different notions there, incidentally. Temporal and spatial. I do not wish Sheldon to “develop”, because then he loses his fixed, allegorical qualities, as representative of a precise philosophical idea. In my view of Sheldon, this would be the Quest for Truth.  I might, however, wish him to broaden, in that other aspects of his fixed nature are brought into view.

 

Without tooting the mournful horn of the Nostalgic, one of the principle charms of the earlier seasons was that there was a lot of integration of the characters. As mainstays, Penny sparred with Sheldon, certainly, and Leonard wooed Penny, but mostly it was the four chaps (with Penny as the Alien Interloper) dealing with their individual problems. I found season 5 and 6 a little claustrophobic, in that, come hell or high water, Leonard was with Penny, Sheldon was with Amy and Howard with Bernadette. And Raj with any number of things, sentient or otherwise.

 

My interest in Sheldon is not limited to how he deals with a solitary, very specific person, and yet essentially that’s what a couple-orientated episode will give you. I have no choice but to watch this, if I want to watch Sheldon, and that’s terribly restrictive for me. If you are interested in Leonard as a character, repetitive episodes of him canoodling or fighting with Penny are not going to give the same character breadth as Leonard dealing with Gablehauser, or his mother, or perhaps a hero of his, or indeed dealing with his own nature, to himself. Having some sort of epiphany.

 

I liked the concept of Amy relaxing for once, and enjoying herself with Howard. It reminded me of when she went out with Leonard. I can’t help but think that Sheldon has a mildly repressive effect on Amy’s personality. I actually quite like Amy, and it depresses me a little what a miserable situation she seems to be in.

 

I say this as someone with no axe to grind whatever. I wish Sheldon were single, true. I think it’s ignominious and ridiculous for Homo Novus to have a “girlfriend”. However I’m not part of an “agenda”. My fanfiction preferences are just that, fanfiction. Yes, if a harpoon were at my head, and I had to choose a "girlfriend" for Sheldon, I'd choose someone more like Penny. But regardless, it's a wistful wish that things were different, not a crusade I’m on.

God knows why I Yoda-ised that last sentence….

 

I totally agree that it is very interesting to see the characters interact with other characters than their counterpart in order to explore different facets of their personalities. That is why I am a strong advocate of ensemble plots. At the same time though, I think you do need to keep a core to the show in terms of pairing in order to give it a backbone, otherwise it's all too watered down and inconsequential, one-off plots. It's like the difference between the show being a collection of jokes and a story that goes from A to B. I think the show became more popular after S4 because the relationship plots added a backbone to the show where you started seeing the characters going from point A to point B with lots of great fun episodes in between that had nothing to do with that "backbone" storyline. If you're an X-Files fan, I'll always say the same thing: Mytharc + MOTW is what made the show big. The relationships on this show are the equivalent of the mytharc in TXF. It keeps people coming back to see where it's all going, whereas if you only have isolated episodes, it doesn't matter if you miss one, or two, or a whole season. 

 

Regarding the whole developing/broadening thing, I would argue that what Amy has done for Sheldon is precisely that: broadening him. Broadening and developing are separated by a very fine line. Just like having Sheldon interact with Kripke, Gablehauser or Capt Sweatpants exposes aspects of his personality that are usually mostly hidden, so did him finding his "perfect match". How can we claim that the way Sheldon is navigating his relationship with Amy is about "developing" (i.e. changing), rather than "broadening" (i.e. seeing parts of him that could just not come out before because he did not have those kind of feelings for another person)? I have often said that there are intrinsic character traits about Sheldon that actually make him the perfect boyfriend, ironically: what woman would not like to be in a relationship with a man who actually loves her for her brains instead of her body and would be committed to her until the end of days even without sex? Or that is truly in the relationship because of who she is, rather than the construct of the relationship itself? Of course, he is very stunted in other aspects, which make him a terrible boyfriend by every-day standards, but I don't think all that comes with his relationship with Amy is development as much as broadening. The whole point of the "Homo Novus" thing is that... there is no such thing. That's the point they try to get across with Sheldon all the time. He is special, he is incredibly smart, he is odd and absurd, but he is still a Homo Sapiens at the end of the day. He gets attached to his family, his friends, his idols and now his girlfriend. I don't think the writers ever meant to imply he is truly a member of another species. And, even if he were, him meeting Amy was totally about the whole "How would it feel like if you felt you were the only human in a world of dogs and then discovered there is another human?". 

 

As for Amy, I was literally just telling Lio this: Sheldon does not get anywhere near enough credit for changing her life. It's always about how Penny changed her life. But Sheldon was literally the first person in Amy's life who took her as she was and let her be herself, without tricking her, bullying her or judging her, and gave her the friends she never had by sticking with her even when everyone else thought she was a drag and he should have "his relationship some place else". If Amy had never met Sheldon, she would still be out there, being bullied and alone like she had been all her life. So yes, he might be repressing her over listening to music in the car or displays of affection, but he was an extremely *liberating* influence in her life because she managed to free herself from her shell for the first time. She does owe him an awful lot and this is hardly ever acknowledged on the show. I'm not diminishing Penny's influence in her life, and I love their friendship (the little nod at the beginning of the episode during that liability line was adorable), but Sheldon is the reason Amy is who she is today. She was also the only friend Sheldon ever made on his own. If it weren't for Leonard, Sheldon would also still be alone and bullied. So, in a sense, just as Sheldon owes a lot to Leonard, Amy owes a lot to Sheldon.

 

Of course, I have my Shamy membership card out on the table, so of course I'm not going to hide behind a finger and claim to be unbiased, because I'm not. But these are the reasons why I feel totally opposite to you about this relationship.

Edited by koops
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I totally agree that it is very interesting to see the characters interact with other characters than their counterpart in order to explore different facets of their personalities. That is why I am a strong advocate of ensemble plots. At the same time though, I think you do need to keep a core to the show in terms of pairing in order to give it a backbone, otherwise it's all too watered down and inconsequential, one-off plots. It's like the difference between the show being a collection of jokes and a story that goes from A to B. I think the show became more popular after S4 because the relationship plots added a backbone to the show where you started seeing the characters going from point A to point B with lots of great fun episodes in between that had nothing to do with that "backbone" storyline. If you're an X-Files fan, I'll always say the same thing: Mytharc + MOTW is what made the show big. The relationships on this show are the equivalent of the mytharc in TXF. It keeps people coming back to see where it's all going, whereas if you only have isolated episodes, it doesn't matter if you miss one, or two, or a whole season. 

 

Regarding the whole developing/broadening thing, I would argue that what Amy has done for Sheldon is precisely that: broadening him. Broadening and developing are separated by a very fine line. Just like having Sheldon interact with Kripke, Gablehauser or Capt Sweatpants exposes aspects of his personality that are usually mostly hidden, so did him finding his "perfect match". How can we claim that the way Sheldon is navigating his relationship with Amy is about "developing" (i.e. changing), rather than "broadening" (i.e. seeing parts of him that could just not come out before because he did not have those kind of feelings for another person)? I have often said that there are intrinsic character traits about Sheldon that actually make him the perfect boyfriend, ironically: what woman would not like to be in a relationship with a man who actually loves her for her brains instead of her body and would be committed to her until the end of days even without sex? Or that is truly in the relationship because of who she is, rather than the construct of the relationship itself? Of course, he is very stunted in other aspects, which make him a terrible boyfriend by every-day standards, but I don't think all that comes with his relationship with Amy is development as much as broadening. The whole point of the "Homo Novus" thing is that... there is no such thing. That's the point they try to get across with Sheldon all the time. He is special, he is incredibly smart, he is odd and absurd, but he is still a Homo Sapiens at the end of the day. He gets attached to his family, his friends, his idols and now his girlfriend. I don't think the writers ever meant to imply he is truly a member of another species. And, even if he were, him meeting Amy was totally about the whole "How would it feel like if you felt you were the only human in a world of dogs and then discovered there is another human?". 

 

As for Amy, I was literally just telling Lio this: Sheldon does not get anywhere near enough credit for changing her life. It's always about how Penny changed her life. But Sheldon was literally the first person in Amy's life who took her as she was and let her be herself, without tricking her, bullying her or judging her, and gave her the friends she never had by sticking with her even when everyone else thought she was a drag and he should have "his relationship some place else". If Amy had never met Sheldon, she would still be out there, being bullied and alone like she had been all her life. So yes, he might be repressing her over listening to music in the car or displays of affection, but he was an extremely *liberating* influence in his life because she managed to free herself from her shell for the first time. She does owe him an awful lot and this is hardly ever acknowledged on the show. I'm not diminishing Penny's influence in her life, and I love their friendship (the little nod at the beginning of the episode during that liability line was adorable), but Sheldon is the reason Amy is who she is today. She was also the only friend Sheldon ever made on his own. If it weren't for Leonard, Sheldon would also still be alone and bullied. So, in a sense, just as Sheldon owes a lot to Leonard, Amy owes a lot to Sheldon.

 

Of course, I have my Shamy membership card out on the table, so of course I'm not going to hide behind a finger and claim to be unbiased, because I'm not. But these are the reasons why I feel totally opposite to you about this relationship.

somehow the like thing doesn't work for me.. but had to say.. LIKED this post :)

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I LOVED this episode. Very funny, and I can never get enough Penny/Sheldon interactions. They have the best chemistry of any pair on that show. Their friendship is more compelling than anyone else's romantic relationships.

And I am so sick of Leonard and Penny ... They are dreadfully boring together. So, I'm delighted they were on separate teams.

The Howard and Amy Neil-thon was priceless. That was the happiest I've ever seen either character act on this show. Maybe Howard should ditch Bernie (who is becoming more unlikeable with each passing episode) and date Amy instead. I'm sick of watching her moon after Sheldon, and at least she'd finally get some action.

I think Leonard needs to date Sheldon's assistant in a future episode. It would be nice to see him with a woman who genuinely wants him.

But I digress ... This episode was a lot of fun. I've already watched it three times! It's nice seeing the gang having fun instead of everything being so heavy and relationship-oriented.

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What the hell?!?!  Way to ruin several seasons worth of character development for Leonard!!!  Just when I thought he was finally growing a backbone and some actual confidence, in a split second he turned right back into season 1 Leonard, so terrified of doing the slightest thing to upset precious Penny... He devolved into exactly what Bernadette was implying he was... one of the worst episodes of the show...

 

Also, Sheldon was the only one who took the time to finish the entire puzzle, and his reasoning was well founded... I find it odd he was the only one amongst a group of brainiacs who even considered the fact that additional clues could have been hidden in it.

 

I don't think they ruined Leonard's character development.  While people do grow, they don't 360 completely.  Leonard will always have a bit of a complex around Penny (or anyone for that matter).  Some things are just ingrained into one's psyche.

 

As far as Sheldon finishing the puzzle, I think it was more to emphasize Sheldon need for completion (that was not worked out last season even though Amy tried).  Sure there could have been additional clues but I don't think that was the point of the scene...

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Best episode in a long time. "Sweet Caroline!" even got the science back into it! Only concern - Given the goodbye scene at the end on S6.....Penny and Leonard seem a lot 'less close' since his return from the North Sea - Hope we aren't in for another will they/won't they break up saga.

Ugh... Those two can't break up fast enough to suit me. So, I'm delighted with the show's direction.

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As for Amy, I was literally just telling Lio this: Sheldon does not get anywhere near enough credit for changing her life. It's always about how Penny changed her life. But Sheldon was literally the first person in Amy's life who took her as she was and let her be herself, without tricking her, bullying her or judging her, and gave her the friends she never had by sticking with her even when everyone else thought she was a drag and he should have "his relationship some place else". If Amy had never met Sheldon, she would still be out there, being bullied and alone like she had been all her life. So yes, he might be repressing her over listening to music in the car or displays of affection, but he was an extremely *liberating* influence in his life because she managed to free herself from her shell for the first time. She does owe him an awful lot and this is hardly ever acknowledged on the show. I'm not diminishing Penny's influence in her life, and I love their friendship (the little nod at the beginning of the episode during that liability line was adorable), but Sheldon is the reason Amy is who she is today. She was also the only friend Sheldon ever made on his own. If it weren't for Leonard, Sheldon would also still be alone and bullied. So, in a sense, just as Sheldon owes a lot to Leonard, Amy owes a lot to Sheldon.

 

 

KOOPS I LIKE THIS BIT :)

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I don't think they ruined Leonard's character development.  While people do grow, they don't 360 completely.  Leonard will always have a bit of a complex around Penny (or anyone for that matter).  Some things are just ingrained into one's psyche. As far as Sheldon finishing the puzzle, I think it was more to emphasize Sheldon need for completion (that was not worked out last season even though Amy tried).  Sure there could have been additional clues but I don't think that was the point of the scene...

Absolutely agree ... it was perfect that Sheldon had to stop to not only finish the puzzle, but also pre-soak his shirts! Very much in keeping with his OCD.

And I think Leonard's character was spot on last night. He NEVER stops being insecure around Penny (but you notice how secure he was on the boat, when she was far away?). She just doesn't bring out the best in him, and I think that's the main reason they're not a good couple. He needs to be with a brainy gal who's more like his mother. He never got the love he needed from Mom, so he can only really love a woman who can plug that psychological hole.

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As for Amy, I was literally just telling Lio this: Sheldon does not get anywhere near enough credit for changing her life. It's always about how Penny changed her life. But Sheldon was literally the first person in Amy's life who took her as she was and let her be herself, without tricking her, bullying her or judging her, and gave her the friends she never had by sticking with her even when everyone else thought she was a drag and he should have "his relationship some place else". If Amy had never met Sheldon, she would still be out there, being bullied and alone like she had been all her life. So yes, he might be repressing her over listening to music in the car or displays of affection, but he was an extremely *liberating* influence in her life because she managed to free herself from her shell for the first time. She does owe him an awful lot and this is hardly ever acknowledged on the show. I'm not diminishing Penny's influence in her life, and I love their friendship (the little nod at the beginning of the episode during that liability line was adorable), but Sheldon is the reason Amy is who she is today. She was also the only friend Sheldon ever made on his own. If it weren't for Leonard, Sheldon would also still be alone and bullied. So, in a sense, just as Sheldon owes a lot to Leonard, Amy owes a lot to Sheldon.

 

Of course, I have my Shamy membership card out on the table, so of course I'm not going to hide behind a finger and claim to be unbiased, because I'm not. But these are the reasons why I feel totally opposite to you about this relationship.

If I'm remembering correctly didn't Howard and Raj set up Sheldon and Amy? I will agree Sheldon stuck with her when the guys didn't like her but at the beginning she wasn't very nice. "Taking the relationship someplace else" was deserved. Amy owes a lot to Sheldon? I think it's more reversed. Who else could put up with Sheldon? Ironically my SO who watches the show but isn't a diehard like us made a comment how much she enjoyed Howard/Amy together because Sheldon isn't always nice to her. Although I don't totally agree I see how she gets that impression. I think Sheldon is lucky he has an understanding set of friends and that is because of Leonard.

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If I'm remembering correctly didn't Howard and Raj set up Sheldon and Amy? I will agree Sheldon stuck with her when the guys didn't like her but at the beginning she wasn't very nice. "Taking the relationship someplace else" was deserved. Amy owes a lot to Sheldon? I think it's more reversed. Who else could put up with Sheldon? Ironically my SO who watches the show but isn't a diehard like us made a comment how much she enjoyed Howard/Amy together because Sheldon isn't always nice to her. Although I don't totally agree I see how she gets that impression. I think Sheldon is lucky he has an understanding set of friends and that is because of Leonard.

 

What does Raj and Howard setting him up have anything to do with it? Sheldon could have turned and walked out of the door, or not showed up, and Amy would still be alone and bullied as she was before. Yes, she was a total ass at the beginning, and I don't disagree with people not wanting to put up with her. She wasn't an easy one to deal with. But, just like we can say "Who would put up with Sheldon?", at the time one could have said "Who would put up with Amy?". And that's the whole point: nobody else would have befriended her as she was and if Sheldon hadn't hadn't taken her under his wing, so to speak, she wouldn't have met any of the others and she wouldn't have the life she has now and it's all a slippery slope from there. 

 

I'm not saying Amy "owes" to Sheldon as in the sense of being in debt and having to worship the ground he walks on. Or that he shouldn't treat her better. God knows I was in the front row of ranting last season with his attitude. All I'm saying is that if Sheldon hadn't given her a chance, nobody would have and she would be completely alone. He gained an amazing girlfriend, she gained an amazing life. It's just that the show likes to hit viewers over the head with Sheldon being a jerk so people tend to forget how it all started.

 

It's all a give and take. And that goes for every set of characters on this show really, romantic or not. They're all lucky to have each other.

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What does Raj and Howard setting him up have anything to do with it?

Because there would have been no Shamy. They probably both still be alone. Just like there would of been no Lenny if Penny hadn't moved across the hall.

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Because there would have been no Shamy. They probably both still be alone. Just like there would of been no Lenny if Penny hadn't moved across the hall.

 

Ok. But that is like saying that Amy owes it to whoever left the dirty sock on the roof. Of course if Howard and Raj hadn't set them up they would have never met. But it isn't like Howard and Raj pointed a gun to Sheldon's head give her a chance. Let alone Howard and Raj giving her a chance of their own. Just like Penny moving across the hall didn't force Leonard to ask her out. That's not the point I was trying to make. I was talking about giving people a chance. Leonard was the first person to give Sheldon a chance and allow him to meet Howard and Raj. Sheldon was the first person who gave Amy a chance and allowed her to have the friends she had always craved for. I think the rest of my post was quite clear in that regard.

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