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7.03 "the Scavenger Vortex" (October 3)


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Ugh... Those two can't break up fast enough to suit me. So, I'm delighted with the show's direction.

 

Yes, but... sorry to disapoint you they are not going to break up and they will end up together, so.....

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I think Sheldon is easily the main influence in Amy's life and where she is right now. Acceptance is the first step to growth and Sheldon truly accepted Amy, quirks and all and managed to relate to he

I think you are kind of refuting your own argument here. If his mother never gave him love then why would he want to be with a woman like his mother? Did you just mean the brains part? If so I stil

Such a funny episode. The geekiness came back in full force and I could not have been happier about it.   Raj's light-and-sound show was perfectly goofy. His Bond villain-like appearance at the end

Yup, that's what I meant, in a sense. But I'd say their experiences are indeed confined to a narrow range even within the context of the show, despite Penny's presence, due to the fact that they are all very similar to each other, albeit each with different types of quirks. Also, with the exception of Leonard, they all ended up dating people who are very similar to them (even with H/B: Howard's "quirk" was his creepiness but we have seen several time that Bernadette sounds quite... adventurous in the bedroom). But that's true to life in any situation, people tend to stick with like-minded people, with a few exceptions here and there.

 

What is hard for "nerds" (and I use this term very loosely here), particularly when they're really young, is to find like-minded people to befriend. The experiences Leonard and Amy often talk about sound more like high-school than college or grad school. The show is telling us the story of these people finding other like-minded people they can build friendships/relationships with, as if university had been essentially high-school and their post-docs/academic careers is university. They shifted the timeframe of this type of development by 5-10 years to fit the premise of the show, which of course involves meeting Penny and how that affected their lives. What I'm saying is that, if they wanted to shift the timeframe, their stories of bullying and oucasts would have been more realistic had the writers had them go to a crappy community college or some big football school rather than Harvard, Princeton, MIT and Cambridge. But they want to make the point that these people are very bright and went to competitive schools whilst at the same time be outcasts and bullied at those same schools. It's a bit of the writers wanting to have their cakes and eat it too. Sheldon is the only one who can reasonably get away with saying he had never experienced anything due to his child prodigy status: even if he had gone to Harvard, being 11, he wouldn't have made friends.

 

But, like we said, it's a sitcom so sometimes all this demand for realism is a bit excessive. The whole tenure procedure last year was just as inaccurate, if not more. :p

 

I don't know that any of them would have been bullied in college, but I can understand a certain amount of isolation, maybe especially for Amy, and for the guys as far as dating goes.

 

I remember people I knew in college, both in and out of the music department, who were the sort of people I would probalby have a certain level of polite conversation with (I generally try to be nice...), but with whom I would not necessarily hang out.

 

And sometimes it's a matter of assuming that someone else will befriend or hang out with that person, you know.  You figure you don't have to partner up for the Scavenger Hunt because surely someone else will do it.  But if everyone thinks that way, then there's no one left to partner up with.

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If Amy had never met Sheldon, she would still be out there, being bullied and alone like she had been all her life.

 

But she never met Sheldon because of Sheldon, she met Sheldon because of Raj and Howard , and Sheldon's friends are really Leonard's friends to a certain extent, so .....

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What I like more and more in this show: the girls! Their characters are not yet as fixed as the guys. They often do unexpected stuff and surprise where their male counterparts in the group are often too defined in their roles.

For example the Amy/Howard-combination in this episode was really funny... and quite surprising! I would not have imagined of Amy being so relaxed about the game and having so much fun singing with Howard. I first thought that she would be the one of the girls who would be more competitive.

 

And I quite enjoyed the Sheldon/Penny-group as well, for quite the same reasons: what I expected after the first puzzle-puzzle was that Sheldon would slow them down at every part of the game and that Penny would save them all quicker, but they would still loose thanks to Sheldon's pedantic slow-down. In fact they were are great team of two different types who - in a wacky way - completed each other (only that Sheldon typically would never admit that! ;) )

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And I think Leonard's character was spot on last night. He NEVER stops being insecure around Penny (but you notice how secure he was on the boat, when she was far away?). She just doesn't bring out the best in him, and I think that's the main reason they're not a good couple. He needs to be with a brainy gal who's more like his mother. He never got the love he needed from Mom, so he can only really love a woman who can plug that psychological hole.

 

So he finaly broke free from his mother only to go back? What sense does that make? And then plug his psychollogical hole with a substitute for his mother? That's just creepy/

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Ok, my aggressiveness in that post stems from the fact that the whole "subconscious attraction to people like one's parent" is complete Freudian nonesense. There is no such thing that we *all* do in real life.  /anti Freudian rant over

 

@Carlos. Yes, my bad about Raj! I mucked that one up :)

 

The point I'm trying to make about Amy "owing" Sheldon a lot isn't about the fact that she *met* him. It's about the fact that he was the first person that embraced her as she is without judgement or caring about what she looked like or came across as, gave her a chance, stuck to his gun despite all his friends' moaning and eventually that made everyone accept her as part of the group, give her friendship and make her come out of her shell. 

 

And, precisely: Sheldon's friends are Leonard's friends. It all comes back to Leonard eventually. Leonard is the core of the group. If it hadn't been for him, none of these people would be where they are now. Except for Raj and Howard being friends with each other. 

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

But she never met Sheldon because of Sheldon, she met Sheldon because of Raj and Howard , and Sheldon's friends are really Leonard's friends to a certain extent, so .....

 

that's not the point. The point is that it was Sheldon the one who oferred the friendship and the one who started their interactions by offering her a drink when they met.

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What does Raj and Howard setting him up have anything to do with it?

 

It has everything to do with it. Because if it hadn't been for Raj and Howard ,Sheldon would have never met Amy. And while you can (successfully) make the argument that were it not for that encounter , and susequent actions she would still be alone, so would Sheldon, and even more so than Amy.

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But she never met Sheldon because of Sheldon, she met Sheldon because of Raj and Howard , and Sheldon's friends are really Leonard's friends to a certain extent, so .....

 

She never would have MET him, but becoming FRIENDS with him, and subsequently, the rest of the gang, was SHELDON's doing.  Raj and Howard had nothing to do with her progress apart from getting Sheldon's butt into the coffeeshop.  They didn't encourage the relationship at all.  They didn't even speak to her at that initial moment.

 

All Sheldon had to do was go to the coffeeshop, and he was well-prepared to scoff at this "match" and walk away.  It was completely his decision to stay and buy her a drink and presumably stay there and talk to her.  His decision to continue the relationship and his decision, with Penny's prodding, to go out on a date with her.

It was also, presumably, his decision to have her meet the gang at the Cheesecake Factory and to insist on including her even though the others thought she was a drag to begin with.

 

If Sheldon hadn't insisted that she be allowed to be included, she never would have become friends with the others.

 

As for Sheldon and the rest of the gang, yes, they all started out as Leonard's friends, but there's not doubt that they've all bonded.  Although Howard and Sheldon have the most antagonistic and apprently the least close friendship, I think that their relationship has also grown over the years, beginning from when they first met, as portrayed in Staircase, to now.  Even though they may not be best buds, they still consider each other friends.

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that's not the point. The point is that it was Sheldon the one who oferred the friendship and the one who started their interactions by offering her a drink when they met.

 

It has everything to do with it. Because if it hadn't been for Raj and Howard ,Sheldon would have never met Amy. And while you can (successfully) make the argument that were it not for that encounter , and susequent actions she would still be alone, so would Sheldon, and even more so than Amy.

 

She never would have MET him, but becoming FRIENDS with him, and subsequently, the rest of the gang, was SHELDON's doing.  Raj and Howard had nothing to do with her progress apart from getting Sheldon's butt into the coffeeshop.  They didn't encourage the relationship at all.  They didn't even speak to her at that initial moment.

 

All Sheldon had to do was go to the coffeeshop, and he was well-prepared to scoff at this "match" and walk away.  It was completely his decision to stay and buy her a drink and presumably stay there and talk to her.  His decision to continue the relationship and his decision, with Penny's prodding, to go out on a date with her.

It was also, presumably, his decision to have her meet the gang at the Cheesecake Factory and to insist on including her even though the others thought she was a drag to begin with.

 

If Sheldon hadn't insisted that she be allowed to be included, she never would have become friends with the others.

 

As for Sheldon and the rest of the gang, yes, they all started out as Leonard's friends, but there's not doubt that they've all bonded.  Although Howard and Sheldon have the most antagonistic and apprently the least close friendship, I think that their relationship has also grown over the years, beginning from when they first met, as portrayed in Staircase, to now.  Even though they may not be best buds, they still consider each other friends.

Your technically all right and wrong. Howard/Raj found Amy on a dating service. To me if that didn't happen all the rest wouldn't of happen. In that regard Carlos is closer to right.

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Ok, how about this? Sheldon owes Raj and Howard. Amy owes Sheldon. Everybody owes Leonard. 

 

 

If I remember correctly we had this discuss on the Leonard and Penny thread a while ago and Tensor did a beautiful job of mapping this very thing out and all roads basically lead back to Leonard.

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 And Amy dancing at the end... Martha Graham would weep tears of pride. 

On a sidenote, how unfathomably cruel were Amy's schoolmates ? I can understand and accept some students being less popular and having less friends than others but, from what she describes, her contemporaries went out of their way to demean and humiliate her. While I get that TBBT is a sitcom and I should not take things at heart, her anecdotes were thoroughly devastating. Amy is one brave lady. 

 

The penultimate scene was a delight in and by itself. Leonard's, Penny's, Bernadette's and Sheldon's respective reactions to Raj's ruse were in perfect keeping with the characters : Penny became threatening, Leonard was just disgusted, Bernadette turned insulting and Sheldon was positively beaming !

"Run to India" and "you suck so hard" will remain as some of my favourite lines. 

 

Great episode. 

You had me at Martha Graham. Mayim can really grab some air when she jumps.

 

On the Amy's past you nailed it. Her anecdotes always wreck my heart to hear and why I wanted the usually verbose Sheldon to say 'something' nice/reassuring to her. A touch would have been doubly delightful but I know that is asking too much. Now that we know she went to Harvard I'm crushed that she had more bad experiences. You would think in a place with like minds/intelligences she would have faired better.

 

I hurt when Hamy walked into the comic book store and she said>>"Yea, It's not a ruse to make fun of me. It's a real game and I'm winning it!" :resent:

 

That's too depressing. I can't laugh at any of her sadness even if she can. So I love the words of her new ally, Howard, in the promo > "Like, ruining her life wasn't enough."

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I think that it was just true to Leonard's nature that he would worry that he had hurt Penny's feelings.

Even though he has indeed gained more confidence and is more secure now that they've finally gotten on the mutual-ILY page, that doesn't mean that his insecurity or his concern for Penny's feelings will suddenly vanish.

More than his insecurities, I believe what really motivated his doubts was, as you very rightly mentioned, his concern for Penny's feelings. 

He knows Penny has a massive chip on her shoulder in re. her lack of academic credentials and overall intelligence. So refusing to associate with her for what could be seen as an "intellectual" game was, let's say, clumsy. He realised that immediately and tried to make amends. 

 

I do not think it was meant to prove Leonard has no backbone (he has always had the exact right number of vertebrae and he has never been afraid to use them, when need be) or has reverted to a somewhat submissive position in the relationship. It just showed he knows his girlfriend and does not want to cause her any pain. 

 

 

ETA "You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day" officially is the new "I'm sorry Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that"

Edited by Chiara
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Because we're all walking Greek tragedies ... Everybody is subconsciously looking for their mothers and fathers in their relationships, no matter how dysfunctional their relationships are.

 

No we are NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!   My wife is NOTHING like my mother. They couldn't be more unlike one another, and... I have been happily married for 22 years. So, sorry to say, BBW, but your statement is simply not true.

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Not to offend anyone, but since I came back to these forums I've found that a lot of the relationship-addicted idiots have joined these forums. Am I the only one who finds it absolutely obnoxious? It's annoying having to scroll through posts of people saying "Oh, Sheldon better watch out because it's Howmy!" Tone it down at the very least FFS!

 

On-topic:

 

Other than the scene with Leonard being insulted for being a "lady part" (which I found quite sexist), I loved the episode! 5/5

Edited by Ðꧧï©å‡êÐ ©ø®þ§ê

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No we are NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!   My wife is NOTHING like my mother. They couldn't be more unlike one another, and... I have been happily married for 22 years. So, sorry to say, BBW, but your statement is simply not true.

Good for you!

But a lot of people do. You're the exception, not the rule.

Apparently,lots of people agree with me, including some of the BB writers. Remember all those scenes where Bernadette yelled and sounded just like Howard's mom? And it was funny that Howard was turned on by that?

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