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7.03 "the Scavenger Vortex" (October 3)


Tripper
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More than his insecurities, I believe what really motivated his doubts was, as you very rightly mentioned, his concern for Penny's feelings. 

He knows Penny has a massive chip on her shoulder in re. her lack of academic credentials and overall intelligence. So refusing to associate with her for what could be seen as an "intellectual" game was, let's say, clumsy. He realised that immediately and tried to make amends. 

 

I do not think it was meant to prove Leonard has no backbone (he has always had the exact right number of vertebrae and he has never been afraid to use them, when need be) or has reverted to a somewhat submissive position in the relationship. It just showed he knows his girlfriend and does not want to cause her any pain. 

 

 

ETA "You have reached you quota of positive votes for the day" officially is the new "I'm sorry Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that"

 

I agree with you here I think and the part of this whole mdiscussion that I didn't get was why Leonard caring for Penny's feelings meant that he had regressed and has no backbone.  If he had turned to her later and said "we're still dating, right?" then I could see the regression argument.  If he ever gets to the point where he does stop caring about hurting her feelings then Penny should dump him.  Leonard caring that he hurt her feelings and wanting to take it back is a good thing even if he was a bit of an idiot that he didn't want to pair with her to start.  Seems like he sacrificed Penny's feelings while being too competitive.  That was Bernie's problem as well.  With that said, he realized it immediately and tried to do what he thought was right to make it up to her.  That shows he still cared, not that he was losing his backbone.

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Not to offend anyone, but since I came back to these forums I've found that a lot of the relationship-addicted idiots have joined these forums. Am I the only one who finds it absolutely obnoxious? It's annoying having to scroll through posts of people saying "Oh, Sheldon better watch out because it's Howmy!" Tone it down FFS!

 

On-topic:

 

Other than the scene with Leonard being insulted for being a "lady part" (which I found quite sexist), I loved the episode 5/5.

You may want to work a little harder at trying not to offend anyone. ;)

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Ok, how about this? Sheldon owes Raj and Howard. Amy owes Sheldon. Everybody owes Leonard. 

 

That's right!!!!!!!!! :) Actually the point I was trying to make is that I don't think or believe as strongly as you do that Amy owes Sheldon as much as you think she does. I thnk it is a combination of circumstances , really, Sheldon, Raj and Howard, Penny's influence that has made things progress to whre they are now. 

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No we are NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!   My wife is NOTHING like my mother. They couldn't be more unlike one another, and... I have been happily married for 22 years. So, sorry to say, BBW, but your statement is simply not true.

Good for you!

But a lot of people do. You're the exception, not the rule.

Apparently,lots of people agree with me, including some of the BB writers. Remember all those scenes where Bernadette yelled and sounded just like Howard's mom? And it was funny that Howard was turned on by that?

 

I think that the writers used that idea more because it was funny (and because Melissa can do that voice) than because they were trying to support some Freudian theory.

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If we keep going back, we have to owe CalTech for hiring them, owe their Mothers for giving birth to them, and then for doing the nasty and then we end up at we have to thank the universe for starting.   it has no end.  

 

Yeah , it would sound like an Oscar's aqcceptance speech

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I hurt when Hamy walked into the comic book store and she said>>"Yea, It's not a ruse to make fun of me. It's a real game and I'm winning it!" :resent:

 

 

I hadn't thouhgt about this line. It also gives us insight into why Amy has changed as a person , with the proper stimuli, and as to why she was isolated before. Sheldon apparently didn't care that much about social interaction while Amy would have wanted it but was made fun of for not being like everybody else.

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Not to offend anyone, but since I came back to these forums I've found that a lot of the relationship-addicted idiots have joined these forums. Am I the only one who finds it absolutely obnoxious? It's annoying having to scroll through posts of people saying "Oh, Sheldon better watch out because it's Howmy!" Tone it down at the very least FFS!

 

On-topic:

 

Other than the scene with Leonard being insulted for being a "lady part" (which I found quite sexist), I loved the episode 5/5.

 

Where are all these pages of people saying that about Howard and Amy? I must have missed something. 

 

Good for you!

But a lot of people do. You're the exception, not the rule.

Apparently,lots of people agree with me, including some of the BB writers. Remember all those scenes where Bernadette yelled and sounded just like Howard's mom? And it was funny that Howard was turned on by that?

 

No. That is pure Freudian nonsense. Carlos is not the exception. You ask any academic who has a ounce of knowledge of Psychology and they will rip Freud apart. Just because the writers have made the joke that Bernie sounds like Mrs Wolowitz it does not mean that he is attracted to his mother. He was turned on by Bernadette sounding like Raj, btw, not like Mrs Wolowitz. 

 

That's right!!!!!!!!! :) Actually the point I was trying to make is that I don't think or believe as strongly as you do that Amy owes Sheldon as much as you think she does. I thnk it is a combination of circumstances , really, Sheldon, Raj and Howard, Penny's influence that has made things progress to whre they are now. 

 

Yes, that's what I meant in my original post. I am not in any way saying that Sheldon is single-handedly responsible for Amy's current friendships and evolution into a happy, loved person. I just meant that he doesn't get given enough credit for it. The show really emphasizes Penny's influence in Amy's life, especially in S5, with the painting and all, but Sheldon deserves some credit too. As do Howard and Raj for setting it all in motion of course.

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It was just an example from a particular post that I read, not every single post.

 

You talked about scrolling through pages of those posts being obnoxious and called people idiots for it. And then you say it was one post? 

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 I liked this episode. I rated it very good. It was nice seeing one continuous plot with all the characters involved in a group event. The Howmy and Bernard scenes were were pretty funny. I liked how Howard discussed with Amy on how they never really hung out together and worked their way into their common interest. Nothing against Neil diamond but for any baseball fans out there, I as a Boston Red Sox hater got a bit nauseous when they played Sweet Caroline. LOL. Seriously though, I really didn't mind it. Also, Sheldon and Penny were above the rest and brilliant as always in their interactions. .

I loved the Rolling stones Geology clue and the ending came as a complete surprise as everyone had the gold coin. That was an awesome point expressed by Raj, It's not a matter of who wins but as long as everyone had fun they are all winners.

Again to any baseball fans out there. This method does NOT apply to the Yankees/Red Sox rivalry.

Edited by Grasshopper

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Not to offend anyone, but since I came back to these forums I've found that a lot of the relationship-addicted idiots have joined these forums. Am I the only one who finds it absolutely obnoxious? It's annoying having to scroll through posts of people saying "Oh, Sheldon better watch out because it's Howmy!" Tone it down at the very least FFS!

 

On-topic:

 

Other than the scene with Leonard being insulted for being a "lady part" (which I found quite sexist), I loved the episode! 5/5

Not to offend you, but many of the Nostalgics had all drifted away. So at the moment, I'd say yes, you may be the only one. Btw Nostalgic may not have quite the piquancy of "relationship addicted idiots", but some of that flavour is still there. Good to know you have standards about sexism. I appreciate the focus.

And I can't fault the episode . I loved the pigtails, too. Everything else seems to have been covered.

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

Not to offend anyone, but since I came back to these forums I've found that a lot of the relationship-addicted idiots have joined these forums. Am I the only one who finds it absolutely obnoxious? It's annoying having to scroll through posts of people saying "Oh, Sheldon better watch out because it's Howmy!" Tone it down at the very least FFS!

 

On-topic:

 

Other than the scene with Leonard being insulted for being a "lady part" (which I found quite sexist), I loved the episode! 5/5

 

just an FYI, saying "not to offend anyone" and then saying something offensive does not make it not offensive. Calling people idiots IS offensive, and people (like me) will take it as an offense, even if I don't consider myself relationship-addicted.

 

And BTW, most of those "Howny" comments were sarcasms, also an FYI.

Edited by Sursonica
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I agree with you here I think and the part of this whole mdiscussion that I didn't get was why Leonard caring for Penny's feelings meant that he had regressed and has no backbone.  If he had turned to her later and said "we're still dating, right?" then I could see the regression argument.  If he ever gets to the point where he does stop caring about hurting her feelings then Penny should dump him.  Leonard caring that he hurt her feelings and wanting to take it back is a good thing even if he was a bit of an idiot that he didn't want to pair with her to start.  Seems like he sacrificed Penny's feelings while being too competitive.  That was Bernie's problem as well.  With that said, he realized it immediately and tried to do what he thought was right to make it up to her.  That shows he still cared, not that he was losing his backbone.

 

Being concerned about her feelings is one thing, but he just took it too far IMO.  His whole "she won't answer my texts, I'm telling her I am quitting the scavenger hunt" just really really rubbed me the wrong way.  It was just too much.  He still has that mentality that he's never allowed to make a mistake in the relationship, and I had felt they had moved past that point by now.  That's just my own personal interpretation on it.  It was just too much, too far an over-correction on his part.  I may be wrong, it's happened before, and will happen again... =)

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Being concerned about her feelings is one thing, but he just took it too far IMO.  His whole "she won't answer my texts, I'm telling her I am quitting the scavenger hunt" just really really rubbed me the wrong way.  It was just too much.  He still has that mentality that he's never allowed to make a mistake in the relationship, and I had felt they had moved past that point by now.  That's just my own personal interpretation on it.  It was just too much, too far an over-correction on his part.  I may be wrong, it's happened before, and will happen again... =)

 

I agree, I see the writers trying to put them in situations that completely ignore what happend in season 6, so now Leonard is acting more like Leonard of season 5, he should be over this, Penny should not be acting that way either.  It is a small thing, because they obviously didn't really get too upset, but it screws up the continuity of the show and who wants to see them go back to before season 6. 

 

I liked the idea of one plot line in the show, and I think it made in extremely funny, because we got to watch only one funny story.  I hope they do this more in the future.  This season has really started out with a bang, three good episodes in a row, the writers and actors are on fire.  Could it be because contract negotiations are coming up?

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Dang, Raj. You and Stuart were so tight at one point. Now his name doesn't even come up when you're sending out murder mystery night invitations? That's cold, brother!

I watched this episode a few hours ago. I guess I'm in the minority, but I didn't think it was funny.

It's been said, but yelly Bernadette does not always equal funny Bernadette. Also, I feel that the whole everybody-thinks-Penny-is-stupid thing has been done to death over the years and there's not much more comedy that can be wrung out of it. This episode proved it for me.

Bright spot was Amy and Howard. I couldn't help but grin when they were on screen because Mayim and Simon just looked like they were having a blast :)

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Being concerned about her feelings is one thing, but he just took it too far IMO. His whole "she won't answer my texts, I'm telling her I am quitting the scavenger hunt" just really really rubbed me the wrong way. It was just too much. He still has that mentality that he's never allowed to make a mistake in the relationship, and I had felt they had moved past that point by now. That's just my own personal interpretation on it. It was just too much, too far an over-correction on his part. I may be wrong, it's happened before, and will happen again... =)

While I am one who doesn't see any long term repercussions here I will say that insulting your girlfriend's intelligence is a pretty bad mistake. So I don't think he overreacted at all.

I agree, I see the writers trying to put them in situations that completely ignore what happend in season 6, so now Leonard is acting more like Leonard of season 5, he should be over this, Penny should not be acting that way either. It is a small thing, because they obviously didn't really get too upset, but it screws up the continuity of the show and who wants to see them go back to before season 6.

I don't see this as season 5 Leonard at all. He didn't seem worried about Penny breaking up with him as he would have in season 5. If you wanted to argue we are seeing season 2 Leonard again I might buy that. I would think that he should be beyond doubting her intelligence by now. But as I said weeks ago in response to the taping report. I think the writers needed an excuse to cause a bit of tension and break up the established groups and to get Penny and Sheldon together. That last part may have backfired as many seem to think they weren't as funny. No long term issues though that I can see.

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While I am one who doesn't see any long term repercussions here I will say that insulting your girlfriend's intelligence is a pretty bad mistake. So I don't think he overreacted at all.

I don't see this as season 5 Leonard at all. He didn't seem worried about Penny breaking up with him as he would have in season 5. If you wanted to argue we are seeing season 2 Leonard again I might buy that. I would think that he should be beyond doubting her intelligence by now. But as I said weeks ago in response to the taping report. I think the writers needed an excuse to cause a bit of tension and break up the established groups and to get Penny and Sheldon together. That last part may have backfired as many seem to think they weren't as funny. No long term issues though that I can see.

 

And Leonard wasn't afraid to assert himself again in the end when Bernie said that she'd made up the p-word thing.  He repeated that "man like Penny" thing that Bernie said and tried just as hard to beat her up the stairs, etc.  So he was worried about having hurt her feelings, which was normal, but he got over it pretty quickly once they were in the basement.

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I'm in the UK for the next 3 Thursdays. How do I see season 7 episodes my lovely UK members? I need to see this episode!

 

 

try this [link removed]

 

welcome to the UK......hope it doesn't rain!!!

Edited by Tripper
Removed link to illegal streaming/download service.

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Dang, Raj. You and Stuart were so tight at one point. Now his name doesn't even come up when you're sending out murder mystery night invitations? That's cold, brother!

I watched this episode a few hours ago. I guess I'm in the minority, but I didn't think it was funny.

It's been said, but yelly Bernadette does not always equal funny Bernadette. Also, I feel that the whole everybody-thinks-Penny-is-stupid thing has been done to death over the years and there's not much more comedy that can be wrung out of it. This episode proved it for me.

Bright spot was Amy and Howard. I couldn't help but grin when they were on screen because Mayim and Simon just looked like they were having a blast :)

Just wondering if you diddn't find it funny why rub people up the wrong way who actually did find it funny, seem's pointless to me. I've watched every season I thought it was the funniest episode since Season 3. And as for the whole Penny is dumb thing as been over done from a comedy stand point, say's who you? It seem's people think having an opinion make's it automatic fact, which is just not true. I don't think the writer's were trying to reinforce Penny's dumb, but just compared to the geniuses in the show, when it come's to science it's not her fortae, but she did really well I thought it was really funny when Raj said I didn't know who would pick Penny last lol, but guess that's just me.

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Still seemed in Episode 3 that Leonard was getting dumped on.  I know it's a comedy but I wished he told Bernadette to F-off.  He remains, IMHO, too much the punching bag.

I'm kind of with you here. He's generally the nice guy and maybe too nice. But he can't get really mad at Bernie, because she was in a crazed mode. And I think he got taken by surprise. He is usually reasonable and Bernie escalated REALLY fast, and he wasn't braced for it. It's a different kind of crazy to Sheldon so he didn't have a strategy and he had to stay on the ride to the end of the game. But I think so far he's been getting a good run on other fronts.

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I agree, I see the writers trying to put them in situations that completely ignore what happend in season 6, so now Leonard is acting more like Leonard of season 5, he should be over this, Penny should not be acting that way either.  It is a small thing, because they obviously didn't really get too upset, but it screws up the continuity of the show and who wants to see them go back to before season 6. 

 

I liked the idea of one plot line in the show, and I think it made in extremely funny, because we got to watch only one funny story.  I hope they do this more in the future.  This season has really started out with a bang, three good episodes in a row, the writers and actors are on fire.  Could it be because contract negotiations are coming up?

I disagree why should be over it? I would be worried if Leonard diddn't seem to care that Penny may be upset about his comment's, I suspose you could argue he his returning to his old submissive push/resist behaviour of previous season's. Compared to last season when he was more assertive, but I don't it's exactly like Season 5 more Season 2, when he over thinked a lot of thing's, I actually thought it showed Leonard consider's Penny's feeling's, when he said she diddn't send me a text back, but guess depend's on your interpretation.

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While I understand what you're saying about our subconscious leanings toward our parents ("I want a girl just like the girl that married dear old dad") I think that if we are at all self-aware, we can also choose to seek out someone better than our parents, especially if we are aware of their failings.

Since Leonard understands the dynamics of his mother's cold version of parenting, he specifically does not want to replicate his parents' marriage.  He doesn't want to end up like his father, needing a hugging machine to get through life.

 

We've talked a lot about how Sheldon says that he wishes he had had Leonard's mother and how Leonard loves Sheldon's mother.  JG & JP have even talked about how they've discussed on the show how the guys each appreciate each other's mothers more than their own.

BUT, while Leonard might have loved to have grown up with Mrs. Cooper, it's pretty obvious that Sheldon would never get Mrs. Hofstadter to sing Soft Kitty to him.  If he got sick she'd probably just tell him to "Buck up."

 

At any rate, Leonard's attraction to Penny is complicated, I think.  Some people like to insist that he's only attracted to her body or that they're only together for the sex, which is not at all true, IMO.

I think that Penny is smart in her own way and that somehow he understands that, but also once she got to know him and the guys, once she saw past their geekiness and saw them as real people, she understood right away that Leonard was a really good guy who was willing to help her and treat her like a real person and not just like a sex toy.

Though he was obviously attracted to her, he didn't press his advantage in those moments when he could have.  He wasn't looking to use her the way so many of her past boyfriends had.  He was a real person, kind and compassionate and patient.

 

As for Sheldon and Amy, like koops has pointed out, they were each other's "only human in a world of dogs".  Or, to borrow from TXF, they were each other's "one in five billion".  No one else can understand what it is they see in each other--the girls don't quite get why Amy puts up with him and doesn't look elsewhere, especially now that she's come out of her shell, and the guys don't quite get why Sheldon is attracted to Amy because she isn't what any of them would imagine as "girlfriend" material.  But then again, none of them understands what it was that bound them in the first place.

 

Amy might have been supposedly looking for someone to date--primarily in order to appease her mother, not because she was actively seeking a romance, which, at the time, she found pointless--but she wasn't really seeking a long-term boyfriend.

Sheldon wasn't seeking anybody or anything.  He simply went to the coffeeshop to meet her because he was being blackmailed.

 

That he immediately saw something kindred in her was completely unexpected by either of them.  But as he himself said, she's more like him than anyone else.  And one could argue that Amy shares some characteristics with Sheldon's mother in that she gives him the affection he pretends he doesn't need and she can hold his feet to the fire when needed, making him be honest with her, to offer a real apology, etc.

 

At any rate, Penny is like Sheldon's mother and sister--comforting and understanding, helping him interpret the real world in way that his fellow nerds cannot--but she is definitely not a sexual/romantic factor in his life.  And neither of them wants that from each other.

 

I think the writers have done a really great job of revealing the characters little by little, having them grow beyond who they were when first introduced (including Amy and Bernie) and having them all influence each other's growth.

 

ANd I think last night's episode was a fantastic example of this.

To the person who said Sheldon has an undeniable attraction to Penny? Are you for real what show are you watching, and I am the only one who watches the same Penny who has always been confused by Sheldon's sexual preferance? What in the world would give you the idea Sheldon is attracted to Penny based on being like his mother, in what way is Penny anything like Sheldon's mother? Yes they have a maternal relationship, but you really have to be clutching at straws to take any moment throughout the entire series, and translate into a romantic or sexual dynamic, it's all AU. It's pretty obvious Kaley and Johnny have amazing chemistry, and Leonard and Penny have been the most important relationship from the pilot, Sheldon and Penny woulden't even be friend's if it wasen't for Leonard, most of the touching moment's and romantic moment's in the show have been all Leonard and Penny. But why am I harping on about this again lol? Who know's people really need to get over this fantasy that Sheldon deep down has feeling's for Penny, because it's getting old.

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