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7.03 "the Scavenger Vortex" (October 3)


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Same thing for canon Sheldon. Why would a guy who spends his life mocking other people's intelligence and has little interest in sexual things, be attracted to someone like Penny, who constantly gets mocked by everyone for her lack of intellect and who is a very sexual person. Like I said many times, I'm not sure what Sheldon and Penny would do all day in a relationship. He cleans her apartment while she... drinks? I mean, I think 7x01 was a good example of that, these two have just enough in common to hang out in the living room or go grocery shopping together for a few hours and that's it. (While I do think they both have a lot to learn from each other when it comes to their own romantic relationships, but that's another story).

 

But what I mean by anything being possible with storytelling is that the show took Sheldon and Penny and led them down path A, where it is now essentially impossible to even conceive them being in a romantic relationship without overhauling the show, its characters, ALL its relationships (friendly and romantic) and everything it stands for. Not to mention the writers and actors never meant to go anywhere near romantic Shenny. But if they had taken them in another direction from S1, it might have been possible. But so would Leonard and Sheldon or Howard and Raj or Howard an Penny and so on. You can find ways to make pretty much anything work, all it takes is good writing. But that doesn't change the fact that the show took them down path A, turned them into the characters we know today and that the idea of this pairing in a romantic fashion makes absolutely no sense in current canon and hasn't had for quite a while. I'd argue even before Amy showed up, probably around the time Sheldon started being established as the annoying third wheel/surrogate child of Leonard and Penny.

You right about Plan A re the pilot, the pilot is the basis for all the character, and how the writer's characterize every scenario they are in. Without Leonard being the social nucleus of all the character's dynamic's, no relationship would exist beyond the show's central premise.It's though people don't consider the actual relationship pardaigm that would exist if they were hypothetically a couple people say Leonard and Penny don't have any thing in common, and one of the flaws that has always been in their relationship, which is caused people to speculate Lenny is forced in terms of it's chemistry is the lack of perceived intelligence Penny bring's to the relationship. Their would be no real depth between Sheldon and Penny when it come's to commonlarities, and I disagree Penny is a very sexual person, not when it come's to her overall personality, but if we are basing it on her past relationship's and compared to Sheldon's dating history, yeah she is the most sexual person on the planet lol. Sheldon to me is attracted to someone like Amy who hold's intelligence and knowledge above all, why would he be attracted too someone who is the complete opposite of his entire life philosophy. And I agree 7.01 was a prime example of their sibling relationship, they can co-exist for a select periord of time when it come's to generalizing every day situations, but their's just not any common ideals or values between the two, to bring their relationship to a higher level, or have any more depth beyond that.

 

Another good example is Season 3 when Penny wanted to learn more about Leonard's work, Sheldon got so impatient because his mind processes thing's much more quicker then Penny, Penny is not stupid it is just her level of intelligence no where near reach's any of the guy's, she is simple in a way with a ton of emotional intelligence, she can be quick and witty at time's, but lack's the knowledge to fully function in those kind of situations. I think people ship Sheldon and Penny because of their own personal preferances, but I don't think people who do really have thought about if the writer's decided to go down that route, everything in the show up to this point in terms of the story archs, character archs, and characterization is based on the direction they took in the pilot. I have no problem with shipping who ever you want to based on your perception of thing's that is perfectly fine, but trying to justify this is based on actual evidence in the show, is when you get an argument out of me lol. Leonard although a geek like the guy's, has very fundemental common values and ideals, and has more in common with Penny on a very human level then any of the guy's, I think Sheldon said it compared to other guy's you don't stack up well, but compared to the rest of the guy's in the car i.e. Sheldon, Howard, Raj your a mack daddy. Since Season 3 though Sheldon has been established as the 3rd arch in Leonard and Penny's relationship, if the writer's wanted Sheldon and Penny as a relationship, but they went down a very specific path since the pilot, and they need to maintain continuity and consistency, the show is based on this one statement "Our babies well be smart and beautiful", everything that encompasses that is irrelvant to the main central premise. But I degress any shipping beyond cannon relationship's is all AU and based on your own personal preferances, neither of these AU's is ever going to happen in the show, so go crazy it won't make a difference :)

Edited by 3ku11

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With regard to Leonard's bone headed remark about avoiding being paired with Penny I'd just say he must of spoke before he thought it through. Being paired with an overly competitive Bernadette was a just consequence.  Leonard's remark was dumb but it was nothing compared to the dumb move he made by rewriting Penny's essay in S6E6. Leonard is usually not quite that socially inept. For someone who works at a University there really no excuse for encouraging academic dishonesty.

 

This gaff of Leonard in S7E3 would seem to indicate that Leonard really does not change very much.

0. S1E1 Leonard sees falls in love with Penny almost on first sight without knowing much of anything about her. (added after reading PaleLeper's post)

 

  1. In S2E1 he makes the suggestion to Penny that she go to City College not anticipating her reaction.
  2. In S3E12 Leonard tells Penny what he thinks of psychics. In this case I don't think he made a bone headed mistake. For me this would be more than I could accept and I would not be able to go beyond being friends. Leonard gives in here by the end of the episode. I don't think the subject ever comes up again. Perhaps that is why Leonard can let it go.
  3. In S3E22 prequel episode Leonard makes the bone head move of mixing rocket fuel at home in the apartment! This has nothing to do with Penny but I think it was the dumbest thing we see him do.
  4. S6E6 Leonard rewrites Penny's essay while she is asleep without being asked for any kind of help. This was a bone head move. I think it is the 2nd dumbest thing Leonard does in the entire series.
  5. S7E3 Leonard does not want to be paired with Penny for the scavenger hunt. Note nearly as dumb as 3 and 4. Perhaps it was mostly just a slip.
Edited by djsurrey
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Leonard  loves Penny end of story, this was established by writers in pilot, Penny loves Leonard this was established as early as season !, in Middle Earth, although Leonard rebuffed Penny's kisses due to his fear and assumption of her only reason was being drunk.  Neither is ready to really accept the level of love they feel for each other, even in season 3.  Yes in this season we hoped for the best and felt truly saddened when the writer's broke them up, it did make sense, neither was sure of why they were together.   Now in season 7 it makes no sense to break them up, Penny and Leonard have been away from each other for months, without either drifting (Penny said all she did was stay at home and miss him, Leonard made sure everyone on boat knew he loved Penny), now they will work on real things, the things that lead to marriage.
 

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Fair enough it's just a normal pre-disposition reaction to people who seem to ship Sheldon and Penny in an romantic light, when their is no suggestion in the show that that is even a hypothetical possiblity. I have always seen their relationship as maternal and brother and sister, the very episode you were refering to justify Sheldon deep down has romantic or sexual feeling's for Penny, to put it nicely is a bit off. Penny has always been confused by Sheldon's sexual preferance, so if she cannot grasp the concept or idea, the possiblity of the reality of it happening is very remote. They just woulden't work a a couple, they are two very different people, it would interesting, and don't get me wrong I love Sheldon and Penny's relationship, I love their sparring and their brother sister sibling relationship but their is just never been any romantic relationship their, they just are not compatible as that type of the relationship. The only way they would work hypothetically as a couple, is if the writers changed everything that make's them unique as individuals, and tbh that would destroy the show. I mean imagine the car scenes, when Penny drives Sheldon to work, now imagine that scenario as a couple, she would kill him lol! Literally, another example is not sure if you have watched it or not, but Season 3 Penny was worried she had nothing in common with Leonard, so wanted to learn more about his work, Sheldon got so frustrated with her because he just lacked that patience with Penny, as his mind processes thing's much differently and quicker then Penny. So unless the writer's decide on having an AU universe type episode any time soon, anyone who want's Sheldon and Penny based on their unique interaction's is purley AU (Alternative Universe), a part from the fact Leonard and Penny have been the most important relationship since the pilot, if you imagine an scenario in the pilot when Leonard wasen't their, most likely Sheldon and Penny woulden't be friend's, as you back to the pilot Sheldon had no intention of being friends with Penny. Sure Penny is nice and would some attempt's, but remember when Leonard told Penny how they first met, Sheldon was even worser socially then, Sheldon most likely would come across weird and contrived towards Penny, and the fact they are very different people, they would have no reason beyond meeting in the hall to have any kind of relationship. Sheldon even said that it is because of Leonard we are even friend's, and when Penny goes out with her friend's, Penny would prob be like "Hey Sheldon!" Sheldon would be like "Hello" lol and that would prob be it. Leonard making Penny part of their group caused Penny and Sheldon to develop a freindship, and Penny become like an older sister to Sheldon, and they started to tolerate their many many many differences. As for Leonard and Penny seem's forced well that your opinion, but I can see where your coming from, they are from different world's, and depending on your interpretation their relationship can seemed contrived and forced based on how different they are. But Leonard has prooven time and time again prooved that his attraction to Penny goes' beyond a physical attraction. I remember the Time Machine episode, when Penny has to take the elevator to work, and she ripped into the guy's, the only one effected was Leonard, which showed to me right then he was the one for her. Remember my all time favorite episode The Peanut Reaction, Penny organised a birthday party for Leonard because he never had one, it was a touching intimate moment in the end between them. I Think if you watch the show a bit more, you well find a chemistry and a relationship just as endearing as Sheldon and Penny's, I think people ship character's together based on their personal preferances, but cloud's their ability to judge the variables, hey I am doing it right now! Lol so sorry it was more a knee jerk reaction. But Leonard and Penny is more then a ship it's cannon :)

Yawn ... But who wants it to be so predictable? And so unlike real life? Leonard's "love" for Penny has always been based on her physical attractiveness. He was dazzled by her when she moved in across the hall. I'd like to see him outgrow his infatuation and find a character he can truly love, body and soul. So, I still hope for that.

In the real world, you wouldn't see guys (no matter how nerdy they are) ending up with the first women they dated. Okay, Howard and Bernadette ended up married...fine. But I would hate for Len/Pen and Shamy to follow suit, because it's too boring and predictable. I want the writers to keep us all guessing until the day this wonderful show goes off the air.

This week's episode did that...hope future episodes will too!

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Yawn ... But who wants it to be so predictable? And so unlike real life? Leonard's "love" for Penny has always been based on her physical attractiveness. He was dazzled by her when she moved in across the hall. I'd like to see him outgrow his infatuation and find a character he can truly love, body and soul. So, I still hope for that.

In the real world, you wouldn't see guys (no matter how nerdy they are) ending up with the first women they dated. Okay, Howard and Bernadette ended up married...fine. But I would hate for Len/Pen and Shamy to follow suit, because it's too boring and predictable. I want the writers to keep us all guessing until the day this wonderful show goes off the air.

This week's episode did that...hope future episodes will too!

Sorry you obviousley missed Season 6 to say that his attraction to Penny is purley infaturation, he clearly loves her and she clearly loves him. Did you miss the final car scene in Season 6, that prooved without a shadow of a doubt that Leonard loves Penny compleltey. Yes the intial atrraction was lust but of course it was, he was a nerd she is the hot girl next door. But since then their relationship has grown to this mutual understanding. Sorry to say he wont out grow Penny neither well Penny, they are their to stay, they have always been the most important relationship in the entire show, the first two season finalie werw all about Leonard and Penny. I am sorry if you seriousley think Leonard has not yet prooven he values Penny beyond her look's, you really need to re watch the whole show, the whole Leonard wants sex from Penny died when they started dating, and since the whole DL ep the idea of Sheldon and Penny as a couple is just creepy and hedonistic tbh. Their relationship has always been maternal and sibling, even Kaley said it would be gross, their is no evidence in the entire series to suggest that their is a physical relationship, or their well ever be a sexual relationship their. Why would a guy who values intelligence and knowledge above all be interested a women who is very sexual, Penny has always been confused by his sexual preferance, your getting dillusional. They made tremendous progress last year, and tbh if the show doesen't end with Leonard and Penny which as been the show's destiny from the begginning, it well be selling the show short. As for your Lenny are too predicatable, and Sheldon and Penny woulden't be? They have even less in common then Leonard and Penny too, but Leonard and Penny have very much in common, in terms of values and ideals. Penny has now realizied she does love Leonard, she could be with any guy right now but she choose Leonard, Leonard could be with someone more sutiable like Priya, but Penny is the only one who can be himself. Besides you were going on about how I disrespected your opinion, yet your not respecting mine seriousley. Being in a stable relationship may be boring too you, but what are you expecting? Penny is not 21 anymore, she is not bed hopping or dating guy's who are better looking or have bigger muscles, and are tallker her expectations of her life and the conventions that exist have been de constructed. I am interested in to what make's you think Sheldon and Penny would bring to the table that Leonard hasent, Leoanrd and Penny have actually had a real relationship, that has stood the test of time. Hyopthetically Sheldon and Penny just wouldent work as a couple, they are just too different, and Penny has made it clear so many times that she is not interested in even the idea, I mean she has always been confused by his sexual preferance, it's getting old time to let this go.

Edited by 3ku11

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Leonard  loves Penny end of story, this was established by writers in pilot, Penny loves Leonard this was established as early as season !, in Middle Earth, although Leonard rebuffed Penny's kisses due to his fear and assumption of her only reason was being drunk.  Neither is ready to really accept the level of love they feel for each other, even in season 3.  Yes in this season we hoped for the best and felt truly saddened when the writer's broke them up, it did make sense, neither was sure of why they were together.   Now in season 7 it makes no sense to break them up, Penny and Leonard have been away from each other for months, without either drifting (Penny said all she did was stay at home and miss him, Leonard made sure everyone on boat knew he loved Penny), now they will work on real things, the things that lead to marriage.

 

 

I'll be the first to admit this clip does not apply to Penny and Leonard but this is what the first part of the first sentence of your post reminded me of (and I don't even actually like Woody Allen Films for the most part)

 

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Sorry you obviousley missed Season 6 to say that his attraction to Penny is purley infaturation, he clearly loves her and she clearly loves him. Did you miss the final car scene in Season 6, that prooved without a shadow of a doubt that Leonard loves Penny compleltey. Yes the intial atrraction was lust but of course it was, he was a nerd she is the hot girl next door. But since then their relationship has grown to this mutual understanding. Sorry to say he wont out grow Penny neither well Penny, they are their to stay, they have always been the most important relationship in the entire show, the first two season finalie werw all about Leonard and Penny. I am sorry if you seriousley think Leonard has not yet prooven he values Penny beyond her look's, you really need to re watch the whole show, the whole Leonard wants sex from Penny died when they started dating, and since the whole DL ep the idea of Sheldon and Penny as a couple is just creepy and hedonistic tbh. Their relationship has always been maternal and sibling, even Kaley said it would be gross, their is no evidence in the entire series to suggest that their is a physical relationship, or their well ever be a sexual relationship their. Why would a guy who values intelligence and knowledge above all be interested a women who is very sexual, Penny has always been confused by his sexual preferance, your getting dillusional. They made tremendous progress last year, and tbh if the show doesen't end with Leonard and Penny which as been the show's destiny from the begginning, it well be selling the show short. As for your Lenny are too predicatable, and Sheldon and Penny woulden't be? They have even less in common then Leonard and Penny too, but Leonard and Penny have very much in common, in terms of values and ideals. Penny has now realizied she does love Leonard, she could be with any guy right now but she choose Leonard, Leonard could be with someone more sutiable like Priya, but Penny is the only one who can be himself. Besides you were going on about how I disrespected your opinion, yet your not respecting mine seriousley. Being in a stable relationship may be boring too you, but what are you expecting? Penny is not 21 anymore, she is not bed hopping or dating guy's who are better looking or have bigger muscles, and are tallker her expectations of her life and the conventions that exist have been de constructed. I am interested in to what make's you think Sheldon and Penny would bring to the table that Leonard hasent, Leoanrd and Penny have actually had a real relationship, that has stood the test of time. Hyopthetically Sheldon and Penny just wouldent work as a couple, they are just too different, and Penny has made it clear so many times that she is not interested in even the idea, I mean she has always been confused by his sexual preferance, it's getting old time to let this go.

I agree that Penny Sheldon together would be ridiculous. If Sheldon heard the suggestion he would just be confused. If Penny heard it she would just give some expression of disgust.

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Some of the people who criticize Leonard for some of his actions are missing the very important fact that Leonard is socailly inept.  Yes, he is better then the rest of the gang, but that is setting the bar extremely low.  Just because a pygmy is taller then his friends doesn't mean that he can play in the NBA.   As for Leonard only loving for her physical appearance,  that is what first attracted him to her, which shocking as it may be is the same thing that initially attracks men to the women they marry, but to think is why he loves her now is ignoring everything that has happened in his life since he met her.   IMO Priya was just as attractive as Penny if not more so, but it was obvioius that even while he was dating Priya he had strong feeling for Penny. 

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Some of the people who criticize Leonard for some of his actions are missing the very important fact that Leonard is socailly inept.  Yes, he is better then the rest of the gang, but that is setting the bar extremely low.  Just because a pygmy is taller then his friends doesn't mean that he can play in the NBA.   As for Leonard only loving for her physical appearance,  that is what first attracted him to her, which shocking as it may be is the same thing that initially attracks men to the women they marry, but to think is why he loves her now is ignoring everything that has happened in his life since he met her.   IMO Priya was just as attractive as Penny if not more so, but it was obvioius that even while he was dating Priya he had strong feeling for Penny. 

Please no one's hotter then Penny ;)

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Not to offend you, but many of the Nostalgics had all drifted away. So at the moment, I'd say yes, you may be the only one. Btw Nostalgic may not have quite the piquancy of "relationship addicted idiots", but some of that flavour is still there. Good to know you have standards about sexism. I appreciate the focus.

 

I wasn't referring to you or the other person, I just find it annoying when I see a lot of posts about Penny and Sheldon's relationship, Howard and Amy's relationship, etc.

 

just an FYI, saying "not to offend anyone" and then saying something offensive does not make it not offensive. Calling people idiots IS offensive, and people (like me) will take it as an offense, even if I don't consider myself relationship-addicted.

 

And BTW, most of those "Howny" comments were sarcasms, also an FYI.

 

Don't get so butthurt, did I even mention you in my post? Why would you get offended by the word "idiots" in my post when I wasn't even referring to you in particular?

Edited by Ðꧧï©å‡êÐ ©ø®þ§ê

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You cannot just sell off your own opinions as "facts" about real life.  I know TONS of people in my circle who ended up with the first person they dated. These people are not regular people. Not everyone wants, cares for or has to bed-hop and "try out the goods" before they settle with a life partner.

.

And I know TONS of people who didn't. So what's your point? We all make our observations based on life experience. Yours are just as "factual" as mine.

And mine maintain that for all these couples to magically end up staying intact is highly unlikely and utterly ridiculous.

But, if TBBT is trying to be more like science fiction and less like real life, then bring on la magica!

P.S. to whoever it was who said you liked my name ... Thanks! (I'm also known as Brenda)

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Some of the people who criticize Leonard for some of his actions are missing the very important fact that Leonard is socailly inept.  Yes, he is better then the rest of the gang, but that is setting the bar extremely low.  Just because a pygmy is taller then his friends doesn't mean that he can play in the NBA.   As for Leonard only loving for her physical appearance,  that is what first attracted him to her, which shocking as it may be is the same thing that initially attracks men to the women they marry, but to think is why he loves her now is ignoring everything that has happened in his life since he met her.   IMO Priya was just as attractive as Penny if not more so, but it was obvioius that even while he was dating Priya he had strong feeling for Penny.

Of course men are first attracted to a woman's appearance ...but, as they date, they look for other ways to connect. Physical attraction goes away over time, so there's got to be a lot more to hold them together. This episode proved that Leonard is still, deep down, embarrassed by Penny's IQ. if, by now, he hasn't come to terms with that, he never will. He needs to be with a woman who stimulates him physically and mentally.

He believes himself to be in love with her because she is his living fantasy. Period.

And I don't believe for one second Penny has ever really been in love with him. She loves him, but she's not IN love with him. She's trying to be in love, because she loves his friendship and probably likes the stability that he brings to her life. (By the way .... Women opt for this a lot. I know TONS of women who have.). But her contempt for Leonard's frequent marriage proposals suggests she's not IN love yet(but probably hoping to be at some point in the future).

So, I still hope for better things for both Leonard and Penny, but won't be surprised if they end up together. I'm sure the writers probably don't want to risk alienating all you Len/Pens! :-)

P.s. remember ... It's just a TV show. ;-)

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Of course men are first attracted to a woman's appearance ...but, as they date, they look for other ways to connect. Physical attraction goes away over time, so there's got to be a lot more to hold them together. This episode proved that Leonard is still, deep down, embarrassed by Penny's IQ. if, by now, he hasn't come to terms with that, he never will. He needs to be with a woman who stimulates him physically and mentally.

He believes himself to be in love with her because she is his living fantasy. Period.

And I don't believe for one second Penny has ever really been in love with him. She loves him, but she's not IN love with him. She's trying to be in love, because she loves his friendship and probably likes the stability that he brings to her life. (By the way .... Women opt for this a lot. I know TONS of women who have.). But her contempt for Leonard's frequent marriage proposals suggests she's not IN love yet(but probably hoping to be at some point in the future).

So, I still hope for better things for both Leonard and Penny, but won't be surprised if they end up together. I'm sure the writers probably don't want to risk alienating all you Len/Pens! :-)

P.s. remember ... It's just a TV show. ;-)

Hmmm. Maybe so. I find your " I know TONS of women who have" argument highly persuasive. And that the writers don't want to risk alienating viewers who are enjoying the show in perhaps a large proportion and are therefore forcing the characters to behave against their preferences is also a compelling idea. Because the characters and writers are so naturally at odds. It must be exhausting for them to keep this story going in the face of this struggle. :)

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.

And I know TONS of people who didn't. So what's your point? We all make our observations based on life experience. Yours are just as "factual" as mine.

And mine maintain that for all these couples to magically end up staying intact is highly unlikely and utterly ridiculous.

But, if TBBT is trying to be more like science fiction and less like real life, then bring on la magica!

P.S. to whoever it was who said you liked my name ... Thanks! (I'm also known as Brenda)

 

My point is that you state your case starting with "In real life, X and Y happens" as if that is the only truth to life. So are you saying that people who end up staying pair-bonded until the day they die in real life are unlikely and ridiculous? Only break ups are realistic? 

 

Yes, in real life there are people that bed-hop (like Howard) and change tons of partners before settling down (as Penny did, and so did Leonard, who also dated several women) and people who find one person and stick to them (like Sheldon and Amy). All these relationships are examples of tons of relationships that exist outside of fiction. We have seen these characters go through their growth in the first 1-5 seasons: Howard bed hopped until he found Bernadette, Leonard dated other women while still having feelings for Penny, Penny was single for a while and dated briefly while still having feelings for Leonard, Sheldon had no interest in relationships until he met Amy and Raj is still working on his issues. Just because the show has moved past that stage now into a different stage of their lives does not make it unrealistic or ridiculous. Or have you not been watching the show prior to S7?

 

Furthermore, this is a show about accomplished academics first and foremost, it's not HIMYM. This type of people do not have revolving doors of romance, drama and sex in the city before they finally magically meet the "ONE" with the yellow umbrella and live happily ever after. They struggled making friends when they were younger, as this episode showed, let alone find lovers.

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Of course men are first attracted to a woman's appearance ...but, as they date, they look for other ways to connect. Physical attraction goes away over time, so there's got to be a lot more to hold them together. This episode proved that Leonard is still, deep down, embarrassed by Penny's IQ. if, by now, he hasn't come to terms with that, he never will. He needs to be with a woman who stimulates him physically and mentally.

He believes himself to be in love with her because she is his living fantasy. Period.

And I don't believe for one second Penny has ever really been in love with him. She loves him, but she's not IN love with him. She's trying to be in love, because she loves his friendship and probably likes the stability that he brings to her life. (By the way .... Women opt for this a lot. I know TONS of women who have.). But her contempt for Leonard's frequent marriage proposals suggests she's not IN love yet(but probably hoping to be at some point in the future).

So, I still hope for better things for both Leonard and Penny, but won't be surprised if they end up together. I'm sure the writers probably don't want to risk alienating all you Len/Pens! :-)

P.s. remember ... It's just a TV show. ;-)

 

This being a TV show, reality is what the writers of the show create. Penny and Leonard are not free will organic creatures who have different imperatives than what dialog they deliver from the writers laptop. The premise of the show is based on their twisting, halting and at times torturous journey from meeting in the pilot to those "Smart and Beautiful Babies". The show has not wavered from that journey in the least and the creator as late as last month talked not about if they will complete the journey but when (Chuck Lorre on the timing of Penny's proposal). In "How I Met Your Mother" we were told in the pilot that Robin was NOT the Mother, TBBT pretty much announced that Penny will be the mother here.

 

We are all free to believe and interpret what ever we want. But in the "reality" of a TV show, if the writers have Penny and Leonard say they love each other, that's the facts, period.

Edited by BangerMain
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This being a TV show, reality is what the writers of the show create. Penny and Leonard are not free will organic creature who have different imperatives than what dialog they deliver from the writers laptop. The premise of the show is based on their twisting journey from meeting in the pilot to those "Smart and Beautiful Babies". The show has not wavered from that journey in the least and the creator as late as last month talked not about if they will complete the journey but when (Chuck Lorre on the timing of Penny's proposal). We are all free to believe and interpret what ever we want. But in the "reality" of a TV show, if the writers have Penny and Leonard say they love each other, that's the facts, period.

Sorry ... But the writers can write what they want ... Doesn't mean the viewers are always gonna buy into it.

I predict that when Leonard and Penny do tie the knot, this show's gonna jump the shark. Waiting to see TV's most boring couple ride off into the sunset is going to turn off LOTS of viewers. (And I know I'm not alone out here!)

So, for the show's sake, I hope they put it off until the series finale!

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.

And I know TONS of people who didn't. So what's your point? We all make our observations based on life experience. Yours are just as "factual" as mine.

And mine maintain that for all these couples to magically end up staying intact is highly unlikely and utterly ridiculous.

But, if TBBT is trying to be more like science fiction and less like real life, then bring on la magica!

P.S. to whoever it was who said you liked my name ... Thanks! (I'm also known as Brenda)

However many TONS of people you may know who did whatever doesn't make your observation any closer to the truth that you claim it to be.

And Penny isn't the first person Leonard dated. By the time he met her he hadn't dated much, but by the time they finally got together he had dated more women and ultimately found that he still loved only her.

And she had certainly dated plenty of men, so it's not like either of them went into the relationship as naive children.

But most importantly, there isn't some rule about how many people one must date or sleep with before committing that determines whether or not one's relationship will last. What matters is knowing one's own heart and mind and getting to honestly know that other person.

I think that in the case of both Leonard and Penny, and in many ways, of Sheldon and Amy, that process has been shown.

The fact that Leonard became Penny's friend first, not allowing himself to take advantage of her, trying to be friendly with Zack, even being just friends while he dated others, gave him the time and perspective to weigh what he felt for these other girls against what he felt for Penny and against everything he'd been through. And the answer he came up with was that he loved Penny more than the others. It so happened that his first instinct about her turned out to be right, even if it was "love at first sight."

As for Sheldon and Amy, while they are certainly less experienced when it comes to romantic relationships, I think that the two of them are a bit more adept at knowing what they want because they haven't been chasing sexual partners all their adult lives. While they might be naive in some ways, they both have a degree of childlike honesty about what they do and do not want.

Sheldon certainly could have found women to have sex with or relationships with if he had been interested in such experimentation, and, really, so could Amy.

But in meeting Amy, Sheldon found not just any girl, but the only one who had ever awakened in him the desire for a relationship of this nature. And it seems to me that Amy recognized in him a kindred spirit who, unlike other guys (and, really other people in general,) truly understood her as a person.

And they spent a year as platonic friends, just getting to know each other as people, which is the best way to develop a long-lasting relationship.

So even if each of these couples had a different path in finding each other, they both found each other honestly and there's nothing "science fiction" like in that approach, nothing "magical", in the sense that you're implying.

I don't know what your social circle is like, but there are plenty of examples of couples who met in all kinds of ways, whether it was love at first sight or after a long and fruitless search or whatever, who managed to stay together--not because of how they got to the relationship, but because of finding the right person to begin with, in whatever circumstances.

I think this is also true for Howard and Bernie. Though they got married rather quickly, it worked for them because they knew fairly quickly that they were right for each other. Call it instinct or whatever, they just knew. Now, Howard had to get used to the idea that Bernie was real as opposed to the fantasy women he'd always imagined he would be with, but she was the one who truly loved him for who he was.

That's what all of these couples have in common--true acceptance of each other and the willingness to bare their hearts to each other.

Besides, this the story the writers are telling. You're certainly free to dislike the story, but that doesn't mean that it's unrealistic or wrong or that your idea would be better.

Edited by phantagrae
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Sorry ... But the writers can write what they want ... Doesn't mean the viewers are always gonna buy into it.

I predict that when Leonard and Penny do tie the knot, this show's gonna jump the shark. Waiting to see TV's most boring couple ride off into the sunset is going to turn off LOTS of viewers. (And I know I'm not alone out here!)

So, for the show's sake, I hope they put it off until the series finale!

It's a very difficult situation when a viewer and the writers disagree. And as you are not alone out there and you know it, then heck, I'd better brace myself. I'm convinced.

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W this person obviousley a troll lol, tried givimg him or her the benefit of the doubt but anyway. You clearly have only seen one ep to make sch an ignorant comment, u obviousley have an personal.preferance dand thats clouding ur judgement f all the couples. YYees they have differences but theyre just skin deep, their sames go straught to the bone, they have a mutual understanding now, we hich has gone past Leonard being infatured they are clearly un loving relationshup that just cant be defined.in one ep.

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WOW .... some folks here get to feeling really threatened when someone with a different opinion shows up!

Look... a person who does not agree with you is not a troll ... Or an idiot ... Or any other colorful metaphor.

But, as everyone here is not a bully, I'll continue to post. This place needs me!

Have a good weekend, all ... Even you Len/Pen diehards. :-)

Edited by BigBangWeary

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I wish I could place a bet with you, because Lenny has always been the fan favourite couple from the pilot. The proportion of people who voice their hate of the couple online and perhaps those you have spoken to are a minuscule audience compared to the 20 million plus viewers who tune in because they love the show. If Leonard and Penny tie the knot, I can almost guarantee the ratings will be, at the worst, unaffected.

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WOW .... some folks here get to feeling really threatened when someone with a different opinion shows up!

Look... a person who does not agree with you is not a troll ... Or an idiot ... Or any other colorful metaphor.

But, as everyone here is not a bully, I'll continue to post. This place needs me!

Have a good weekend, all ... Even you Len/Pen diehards. :-)

Lol I also noticed on another thread you said you want Amy and Bernadette to be thrown under a train? It is just your first initial post's were very hostile, the whole show since the pilot has pratically been based on Leonard and Penny's relationship. So you cannot expect coming to a BBT fan site, rip a new one into Lenny, and expect Oh your entitled to your opinion response were you lol? Yes you have an opinion but you lacked the constructive ability, my point is you have a personal agenda and preferance to Leonard and Penny relationship based on one episode. Your basis as to why Leonard and Penny are not compatible, is that Leonard see's Penny as a fantasy, well duh! He's a nerd that was the whole central premise of the show, the nerd meeting the hot girl next door. But as the series has progressed Penny is no longer the hot girl next door, she is still the hot girl but more integrated into the group, Leonard is no longer that awkward geek, he is more socially equipped. As for your argument's that Leonard doesen't like that Penny is unintelligent, tell where in 7.03 Leonard said he think's Penny is unintelligent? He just felt or assumed the whole scavenger hunt woulden't be his fortate, if you really think based on that one exchange, that is the whole basis of their relationship, and how Leonard see's Penny is riduclous, seeing it has been gone seven seasons.

 

Not sure if you missed last season, but Penny prooved she is in love with Leonard, that final car scene, prooved their equal partnership. Leonard has prooven he see's Penny more then just a sex object, their is now a mutual understanding and chemistry that has superseded the conventional standard what is expected from society and Penny's expectations, she has now deconstructed her self actulization that used to be based on her acting, and the guy's she dated really encompassed those ideal's, if you have watched the show you would know Penny had dated a lot and had a lot of relationship's, Penny could be with any guy right now but she choose Leonard why? Because he is the only guy who has intellectually challenged her, and is the only who not only see's her as a queen but treat's her like one. And Penny is the complete opposite of Leonard's mother, warm, affectionate, loving e.t.c. But now as Penny has matured her self actulization has changed, her happiness and success is now been transfered to her relationship's particularly Leonard. And your right the writer's could write any characters they want to be together, but the writing in the show and the stories they want to tell, is based on the direction they took in the pilot, the line "Our babies well be smart and beatiful" really tell's you the core premise of the show. So I understand everyone has personal preferances when it come's to shows they like, characters they like, relationship's like, and it is fine you don't like them together.

 

But letting that personal preferance over shadow your judgement of all the varaibles, not to mention basing it on one episode, where the whole intention of the episode was to bring the best and worst out of everyone, is Howard and Bernadette wrong for each other, because he ditched her for Amy lol? What about Sheldon Penny ditched him in the laundry room. Thing's were said in the heat of the moment, it should not be taken as a writer's vantage point of the characters or the relatonship's, just a fun episode that shook Lenny a bit, but they have been through a ton throughout the show, this won't change a thing. Besides in the next episode Leonard and Penny are cuddling on the couch, while their friend's bicker in their relationship's, you could argue Sheldon and Amy, and Howard and Bernadette are much more suited to each other then Leonard and Penny, yet they are the one's fighting and Leonard and Penny are cuddling watching a dvd. That's the point Penny has realizied the social convention of a relationship that society expect's, is not always relevant to how you feel about someone, Leonard doesen't care that Penny has less intelligence then he has, he even made this clear in 2x01, the most important thing is they have choosen each other and only each other. Of course if the writers thought the best interest in the show, was to hook Penny up with some tall guy with muscles, they would but Penny is not 21 anymore, she is 27, and of course if the writer's felt the best interest in the show was hook her up with Sheldon, they would, but they after seven season's that ship has sailed ;)

 

They just woulden't work as a couple, it's a sibling relationship regardless of people's personal preferances. The writer's set the show's destiny between Lenny since the pilot, regardless of you don't like them as a couple is irrelevant, and regardless if you think they are the most boring couple alive which I don't get that, based on the fact season 7 starts four months after Leonard comes back home, what are you expecting lighting and fireworks lol? They are in a stable relationship, are Shamy boring because they have yet to be physically intimate? TBBT is not a show about big moment's, or quick progression, it can be tedious and meticulous, which make's it realistic. IMO Penny made tremendous progress in the latter half of Season 6, and most people would agree they are now equals. You have every right to have an opinion, but as people's views are all different to the writer's, the actual cannon relationship's well not change, like I've said before Lenny is more then a ship it's cannon :) Continue posting after all this is a site for discussing story arch's on the show, if we all agreed on everything it would be boring.

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Dang, Raj. You and Stuart were so tight at one point. Now his name doesn't even come up when you're sending out murder mystery night invitations? That's cold, brother! :)

I thought just the same! Just when did those two drift apart? When did it happen? I remember them being close friends (wiedrly close friends, too close!), when Howard arrived home from the space station, and then after a while Stuart sort of faded away again.

Of course, Raj had this intense girlfriend-intermezzo which would have taken all his time.

 

To be honest, I'm not really sad about it. Stuart is a great supporting character. He is best, when he is the sad sack, lonely, desperate and insecure, and never part of the group. Because as a part of the group he always seemed kind of too awkward to me (if there is a thing like "too awkward in THIS group! ;) )

 

So, after all: I was delighted seeing him back in his old form. And I just loved his last sad line "So no one's gonna buy anything!"

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