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7.04 "the Raiders Minimization" (October 10)

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Keeping his eyes shut saved him because one is not supposed to look upon the Ark.  It's part of the biblical background.  It was a holy object and only the priests were supposed to carry it, etc., so the Nazi's were destroyed because they opened it and looked into it, etc.

 

The part of Raiders that I always wonder about was--how did they get the ark back to the states?

Could the two of them have carried it on their own?

And even if they could have, wouldn't there still have been crew members on the Nazi submarine?  I mean, not every single crew member would have gotten off the boat when they got to the island, right?

And even if all the crew members had gotten off the boat, would Indy and Marion have been able to pilot the boat back to some kind of harbor or another ship or something?

 

Now I'm wondering who came up with Amy's point--is that something that's been said online somewhere or did one of the writers come up with that idea or what? :p

 

Oh I would guess that the writers found that point about Indy on the internet - I think that is where writers in Hollywood find A Lot of their ideas - LOL -

I hadn't seen that point about Indy's relevance to the story before, but it is all over the internet now - best counter point I have seen is that without Indy destroying the plane, the ark would have been flown to Germany and not gone to the island - but even with that Indy bungled, because if that had happened the ark would have been opened in front of Hitler, destroying him and stopping WW II from happening.

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I liked the episode.  Cute how Amy is teaching Sheldon to have a "real" relationship.  Those moments are the best for them in my opinion.

 

Still think Penny went a bit too far with calling Leonard's mom but I now see why.  Leonard pushed it too far and like someone had previously said that it appeared to be almost like an experiment to him.  That wasn't right.

 

And though Beverly was great, I think it was a bit of a waste of an appearance by her....

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

Amy's critque of Raiders was amusing and she had a point - Indy lost out to Belloq at the start of the movie and kept loosing out to him right up until the ending - the only thing that saved him and Marion from being vaporized along with every one else by the ark was closing his eyes - which I always found amusing - was that really what saved him or could the ark tell who the who the bad guys were - would Indy have been vaporized if he had been the one to open the ark? - I don't think he would have - I liked the guys rewatching Raiders again to see if they could find a flaw in Amy's argument but couldn't - they could have mentioned that Marion would have been killed by the nazis if not for Indy, so that made him a hero, even if he kept bungling recovering the ark.

 

but again, he wasn't so sucessful in saving Marion either. He did save her when the Nazis tried to take the medallion from her (although someone could arguably say that she would have just sold it to them, since she would not have sold it already to Indy), he didn't save her in the tent either, and then, when se was taken hostage by Belloq and the Nazis and he tried to rescue her, failed, and he also ended up being a hostage.

They both ended up tied to that pole.

So yeah, I still love Raiders but Amy's point is absolutely valid.

Edited by Sursonica

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I liked the episode.  Cute how Amy is teaching Sheldon to have a "real" relationship.  Those moments are the best for them in my opinion.

 

Still think Penny went a bit too far with calling Leonard's mom but I now see why.  Leonard pushed it too far and like someone had previously said that it appeared to be almost like an experiment to him.  That wasn't right.

 

And though Beverly was great, I think it was a bit of a waste of an appearance by her....

 

It reminded me of the episode when Sheldon tried to modify Penny's behavior by tossing her chocolates - LOL

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I wouldn't be surprised if the writers had come up with Amy's point by watching Raiders themselves together and then going "Oh, man!". And then go "Wait! We can write an episode about this!". I can totally see this bunch of writers do that. LOL. :p

Edited by koops
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Thank you, finally a man willing to have some discerning taste!   They clearly made her up to look as trampy and vampy as they could and that is why it didn't work.  She is sexy on her own and didn't  need all that extra "fluff" to try and vamp her up.   Put her in a normal beautiful elegant negligee and her hair as normal and she would have been far sexier.

Though it should be pointed that not only women watch the show. BTW your avatar IMO has no "discerning taste".

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I wouldn't be surprised if the writers had come up with Amy's point by watching Raiders themselves together and then going "Oh, man!". And then go "Wait! We can write an episode about this!". I can totally see this bunch of writers do that. LOL. :p

 

Yep--they all have bona fide nerd cred. :p

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I just love the guys trying so herad to find any peice of evidence that would disprove Amy's destruction of Indiana Jones - and failing every time! :dancer:

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I just love the guys trying so herad to find any peice of evidence that would disprove Amy's destruction of Indiana Jones - and failing every time! :dancer:

 

Yay for Amy!  It's about time she came out on top.  More episodes like this, please.

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I wonder if Beverley is equally horrible to all of her children, or just leonard and in season 2 didn't she say that she and her husband only had sex for having children and then last night there was some nonsensical bedroom stuff that came out

Edited by rachelshamyfan

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I wonder if Beverley is equally horrible to all of her children, or just leonard and in season 2 didn't she say that she and her husband only had sex for having children and then last night there was some nonsensical bedroom stuff that came out

Knowing Bev, she was "experimenting" during the naked with paddle scenario with her husband.  You notice she never mentioned they had sex, but just that they were naked and she was using a paddle on her naked husband.   :girlwink:   I could see her using him as a guinea pig like she did Leonard.   I get the feeling Bev would use anyone as an experiment, so yes, I would think all her children were subject to her observations, although Leonard, being youngest, may have been far enough in age span difference from the others that he was easier to make a guinea pig for her.  Also, her studies may have been more focused on developmental behavior at the time so he may have been subject to more observations.  

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hmm yeah though there needs to be one of two things that happens with leonard and Beverly

 

1) Leonard accepts what his mother put him thru as a child and now as an adult with her books and tries to deal with it better

or

2) he actually tells her how he feels about it but that might backfire

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Yes, but once drunk Beverly also seemed to prey on younger men :p So who knows really? 

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I liked the episode. Cute how Amy is teaching Sheldon to have a "real" relationship. Those moments are the best for them in my opinion.

Still think Penny went a bit too far with calling Leonard's mom but I now see why. Leonard pushed it too far and like someone had previously said that it appeared to be almost like an experiment to him. That wasn't right.

And though Beverly was great, I think it was a bit of a waste of an appearance by her....

IMO it was only fair for Penny to use Leonard's mother to teach him a lesson. After all Leonard used his mother to get what he wanted from Penny. As far as I'm concerned Leonard set the ground rules and of course it ended up bitting him where the sun don't shine! ;)

As far as Penny's lingerie...She was SMOK'N HOT!! :) :) JMO

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I wonder if Beverley is equally horrible to all of her children, or just leonard and in season 2 didn't she say that she and her husband only had sex for having children and then last night there was some nonsensical bedroom stuff that came out

 

Maybe he needed a little paddle action to get him excited enough to have sex with her--maybe they were trying to have another child and gave up?  Who knows?  I don't care--just the image of poor Leonard walking in on that was too funny!  Along with his "I didn't dream that?" reaction. :p

 

I also loved his "Mommy, no! Mommy!" reaction.  I think that's the first time that word's come out of his mouth. :biggrin:

And I kind of love it that Bev and Penny have some kind of bond that Penny was apparently able to talk to her about her (Penny) relationship with Leonard.

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It's funny because I just caught up yesterday reading the Montserrat Resurgence fanfic and the scene with Beverly on the computer last night made me think of where that story left off... I'm dying to know what happens next in that story!

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And the end, oh the end. I was glad that he was able to say, "I'm mad at you" without fear of her rejecting him or anything. I love that she gave him the freedom and safety to express his anger or hurt or whatever he might feel. I love that she is helping him to be more open with his feelings, which allows her to do the same.

And I loved his last line about Garfield and Mondays and his triumphant little smile! :)

 

I don't think Sheldon would ever have troubles with telling someone "I am mad at You" and being afraid of being rejected.

First, plainly saying "I am mad at You" would definitely typical for him (as weel as the childish revenge scheme).

Second, he is so self centered he would never believe that one of his friends or his girlfriend would ever find any reason or even want to reject him.

 

I think this was more about growing up, getting more committment into a serious relationship and how to behave in it.

S1-Sheldon only would have to been told "This is social protocol for relationship situations like this." and he simply would have done it.

 

 

A propos serious: What they all didn't get about Indiana Jones: The movies, from the first one on, weren't meant to be serious adventure movies, they never have been! Indiana Jones was designed to be a satire to classical movie and pulp fiction adventurers like Allen Quatermain. He is an Anti-Hero, and being that, it would perfectly fit for him being victorious in the end although he failed in almoust everything he tried to achieve. And even his final failure in bringing the arch to his country, but failing to display in the museum, fits to his role as anti-hero. He might have the reputation as a hero and acts like one, but in fact he is more of a loser.

But it's true: a real nerd-fan would never admit this! To the fans Indiana Jones is an adventurer, he is tough, cool, he is a badass archeologist, he is a hero, and that would be it!

I once spent an four-hours-cardrive with one kind of that nerdy fan species... four long hours in a car going on and on about Indy here and Indy there, and that killed the whole franchise for me far more effectively than Amy would ever be able to! :hang:  So, just for that, I enjoyed the episode immmensly! :sarcastichand: I just could have watched the firs and last part (with the middle in the cafeteria): 

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I haven't read all the comments but I think that pretty much everything I wanted to say is already said.

 

I liked the all the storylines on the episode. Leonard and Penny were really sweet!! I didn't find what Leonard did reallyyy bad. Penny should have probably checked with him before reading this book given that she knew what kind of relationship Leonard has with his mother. And I felt really bad for him when he said that his was his mother's ginuea pig. Of course he didn't want to take advantage of her but I didn't like that he asked her not to see her friends. Glad her other friends were mentioned though. And the fact that she is still on school!! Penny was really sweet and she tried to make him fell better!! Actually I really liked the way she interacted with her significant other. I feel she has grown a lot!! But I didn't like that pink nightie. She is really beautiful she doesn't need something like that. She can be more elegant than that!!!

 

Raj and Stuart were sad and funny. I like Stuart and he interacts very well with Raj!! I wish there are more storylines with them to come!!

 

And last but definitely not least the shamy!!!koops said it all but I liked the way the resolved the issue in the end. That was really mature and I will give Amy credit for that! Unlike the 7.02 were she stand up for Penny in a dynamic way (which I loved and I think it was about time she defended herself!!) now she is the cool-headed one. She wasn't upset (maybe a little hurt when she realize what he was trying to do) but she understood why he acted like that. She shouldn't have spoiled the movie but for hes it just wasn't such a big deal. She didn't want to upset him and I think he got it. Of course I liked the Dr.Fowler and Dr.Cooper line!!

 

I think it was a good episode and step forward for Sheldon and Amy!!!

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Maybe he needed a little paddle action to get him excited enough to have sex with her--maybe they were trying to have another child and gave up?  Who knows?  I don't care--just the image of poor Leonard walking in on that was too funny!  Along with his "I didn't dream that?" reaction. :p

 

I also loved his "Mommy, no! Mommy!" reaction.  I think that's the first time that word's come out of his mouth. :biggrin:

And I kind of love it that Bev and Penny have some kind of bond that Penny was apparently able to talk to her about her (Penny) relationship with Leonard.

 

 

That was one of the best lines when Leonard yelled "Mommy".  Also when he said earlier that he was going to the right and for Penny not to make anything out of it. 

 

Not sure I want Penny to have a bond with Beverly unless the bond helps Leonard to come to terms with his childhood but that's a whole nutter Oprah...

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Did anyone else notice in the episode that Leonard called Howard by his REAL name? If you listen when Howard knocks on the door and asks if he, Leonard, is ready for lunch and he shouts "1 Sec!". When he opens the door he actually says "Hey, Si", which as you know is Howards real name. This is on 11m 36 sec. for those interested. I cannot beleive the shows producers and everybody else missed it. Especially when you watch Gag Reels from previous seasons and see them getting them.

 

I didn't catch that, I think I heard "Hey, sorry" at first! Not sure what he is saying really, but it does sound like Si. 

 

I don't think Sheldon would ever have troubles with telling someone "I am mad at You" and being afraid of being rejected.

First, plainly saying "I am mad at You" would definitely typical for him (as weel as the childish revenge scheme).

Second, he is so self centered he would never believe that one of his friends or his girlfriend would ever find any reason or even want to reject him.

 

I think this was more about growing up, getting more committment into a serious relationship and how to behave in it.

S1-Sheldon only would have to been told "This is social protocol for relationship situations like this." and he simply would have done it.

 

ITA. Sheldon wouldn't even have cared about being rejected or hurting someone's feelings, he always thinks he's right anyway. This was about realizing that playing games is immature and that there's no need to do that and that that's not how a healthy relationship works. Indeed, he took his parents as an example who were anything but a healthy relationship. 

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What a very good episode that was !

 

The interactions between the couples were great.

I love Bernie's no nonsense attitude; she is good at keeping Howard in line. 

 

Penny and Leonard were a lot of fun to watch. It was nice to see Penny being so compassionate towards Leonard and feeling genuinely sorry for bringing up the topic of his childhood, though I have to say the "breastfeeding" exchange was brilliant; Leonard went too far with his new found leverage and got punished for it. Penny unleashed Hell on his tushie and he learnt his lesson. The "mommy" interjection was great : as others mentioned, it might have been the first time he used that word. Poor guy, he loves his mom but he cannot stomach her (for good reasons). Also : who knew Bev was such a kinky lady ? A ping pong paddle ? There is a very sick voice in my head that demands more details on that particular anecdote. 

Also, yay for Penny still going to college !

 

Sheldon and Amy were delightful. I do no think Amy "ruined" the Raiders of the Lost Ark (who cares, after all, whether Indiana Jones serves any purpose in the unfolding of events ? He is an archeologist with a hat and a whip.. And he fights the Nazis ! Who cares whether he contributes anything to the plot ? He is cool ;)) but I imagine that, for someone as committed to his passions as Sheldon, it must have felt like a blow to the heart. His attempts at vengeance were adorably lame and a nice wink from the writers : after having the girls show interest for the boys' culture in The Bakersfield Expedition, they make one of the guys dip his toe into the girls' artistic preferences and fail to find it lacking in any way. Nice throwback ! Furthermore, Sheldon appears to have begun to learn something. While he is not entirely sold on the idea of not seeking retribution, he at least acknowledged that telling Amy about his frustration and forgiving her made him feel better. That is a small step forward. He has not had he best example given to him by his parents but he is capable of moving past it, somewhat...

 

But the real payoff was provided by Raj and Stuart.  

Is there such a thing as a Stuart fetish ? Are there meetings for people who cannot get enough of the depressed, sad, lonely, perpetually rejected, desperate Bloom boy ? For I feel I may be turning into one right now. Kevin Sussman is an amazing actor : his delivery and facial expressions are absolutely priceless. The "photoshoot" was a perfect exemple of his talent; done by many other actors, it may have seemed over-the-top ridiculous. But with Mr. Sussman in charge, it felt real. And hilarious. And just a bit sad. Like Stuart himself.

I like that both Raj and Stuart have not given up on romance. Even though they have no clue what they are doing, they are still willing to put themselves out there and try their best to find love. That is brave and they deserve kuddos for it. 

 

All in all, great episode. 

Edited by Chiara
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An issue in this episode has been bothering me. A number of posters through the seasons have said that Penny needs to be more attentive or interested in Leonard's needs or interests. Yet it is clearly shown in this episode that since season 3 (The Cornhusker Vortex) Leonard still doesn't know a thing about football nor does he care. SHELDON knows much more about football for goodness sakes! Yet he is suppose to be in love with Penny yet he can't learn about a sport in almost 4 years that she cares about? To the point where Penny says you better not talk sports with her friends and don't complain about everything. That sure sounds like a one side relationship in regards that he can't even care enough to be coherent in a simple sport. Just saying. Sounds like a double standard here. The guy is more than smart enough to grasp the concept of football to handle a conversation if he really cared.

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An issue in this episode has been bothering me. A number of posters through the seasons have said that Penny needs to be more attentive or interested in Leonard's needs or interests. Yet it is clearly shown in this episode that since season 3 (The Cornhusker Vortex) Leonard still doesn't know a thing about football nor does he care. SHELDON knows much more about football for goodness sakes! Yet he is suppose to be in love with Penny yet he can't learn about a sport in almost 4 years that she cares about? To the point where Penny says you better not talk sports with her friends and don't complain about everything. That sure sounds like a one side relationship in regards that he can't even care enough to be coherent in a simple sport. Just saying. Sounds like a double standard here. The guy is more than smart enough to grasp the concept of football to handle a conversation if he really cared.

 

Well, you could argue that Penny has never really embraced science either.  She tried to, but found it boring and tedious.  The same probably goes for Leonard and sports.  Leonard has taken an interest in her acting and Penny has tried a bit of his geekier activities.  I think they are pretty even on that front.

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Except that Penny would go to his functions without whining or complaining. Actually being very supportive, whereas, Leonard it seams goes very begrudgingly. Maybe the writers are just trying to show us that it isn't as one sided as it seams?

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