Chiara Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 An issue in this episode has been bothering me. A number of posters through the seasons have said that Penny needs to be more attentive or interested in Leonard's needs or interests. Yet it is clearly shown in this episode that since season 3 (The Cornhusker Vortex) Leonard still doesn't know a thing about football nor does he care. SHELDON knows much more about football for goodness sakes! Yet he is suppose to be in love with Penny yet he can't learn about a sport in almost 4 years that she cares about? To the point where Penny says you better not talk sports with her friends and don't complain about everything. That sure sounds like a one side relationship in regards that he can't even care enough to be coherent in a simple sport. Just saying. Sounds like a double standard here. The guy is more than smart enough to grasp the concept of football to handle a conversation if he really cared. I see where you are coming from. But it was not that bad : for all his moaning, he was still willing to go. For Penny's sake. Until she provided him with the perfect excuse... On a related note, I was very pleased to find out Penny continues to socialise with her more jock-y friends. While her true "family", so to speak, is the Los Robles Mafia, there are things she cannot share with them, such as her love of sports, for they simply would not understand. So I am glad she has not given up on those activites of hers and continues to exist as a separate entity, in a way. She has her own thing going on and she tries to include Leonard. Good for her. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
koops Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 I've always loved that Penny is into football and sports. I think it's easy to see her as the typical hot girl next door, but, actually, the writers have managed to even make that tv trope original, with all the gender-reversal, Penny-the-man jokes and the fact that she's a total tomboy for many things (sports, fishing, etc). I really like that and I'm glad they're not forgetting about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodidIwin? Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 I see where you are coming from. But it was not that bad : for all his moaning, he was still willing to go. For Penny's sake. Until she provided him with the perfect excuse... On a related note, I was very pleased to find out Penny continues to socialise with her more jock-y friends. While her true "family", so to speak, is the Los Robles Mafia, there are things she cannot share with them, such as her love of sports, for they simply would not understand. So I am glad she has not given up on those activites of hers and continues to exist as a separate entity, in a way. She has her own thing going on and she tries to include Leonard. Good for her. Excellent points! As anyone that have read my posts I'm a Lenny shipper 1st and always! Perhaps that's why it bothered me that over so many years someone as intelligent as Leonard couldn't learn enough about a sport to have a normal conversation? Knowing that he went to these events to please Penny, what was he doing while he was there? Just through seeing the game on TV over and over again you would think he would grasp on at least the overall consept? I know...that's why it's funny! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogravitasatall Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 I see where you are coming from. But it was not that bad : for all his moaning, he was still willing to go. For Penny's sake. Until she provided him with the perfect excuse... On a related note, I was very pleased to find out Penny continues to socialise with her more jock-y friends. While her true "family", so to speak, is the Los Robles Mafia, there are things she cannot share with them, such as her love of sports, for they simply would not understand. So I am glad she has not given up on those activites of hers and continues to exist as a separate entity, in a way. She has her own thing going on and she tries to include Leonard. Good for her. He goes because he loves her, they put chicken wings in his ear... I totally get that he just doesn't care at all about football. He could learn the rules, but you can't fake um, enthusiasm (girls can tell). And let her have her thing. That's fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasu Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) i've never seen raiders...so i did'nt know whether Amy's discovery was as clever as it seemed... sheldon was an *** ...amy had nothing to be sorry about.....weird story leoanrd penny-started rather cutely .... ended rather bizzarly......leonard had it coming but penny could have admonished him instead of pulling a cruel prank.. raj and stuart are losers...story ended... Edited October 11, 2013 by vasu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantagrae Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) i've never seen raiders...so i did'nt know whether Amy's discovery was as clever as it seemed... sheldon was an *** ...amy had nothing to be sorry about.....weird story leoanrd penny-started rather cutely .... ended rather bizzarly......leonard had it coming but penny could have admonished him instead of pulling a cruel prank.. raj and stuart are losers...story ended... I see you're still all sunshine and enthusiasm. Tell me again why you're still watching? Do you even like the characters at all? Any of them? Edited October 11, 2013 by phantagrae Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasu Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 I see you're still all sunshine and enthusiasm. Tell me again why you're still watching? the same reason that drives you to respond my posts... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyGirl Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) This was my least favorite episode of the season so far --- for me it's 7.02; 7.03; 7.01; and 7.04. Beverly ruin it for me and I hope that is the last we see of her for years to come. eta: Go Amy! Now Sheldon should have thought back to when he ruined/spoiled the book Leonard was reading along with The Walking Dead. Sheldon hates it when people do it to him but it's okay for him to do it to others especially Leonard. Edited October 11, 2013 by ArmyGirl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodidIwin? Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 This was my least favorite episode of the season so far --- for me it's 7.02; 7.03; 7.01; and 7.04. Beverly ruin it for me and I hope that is the last we see of her for years to come. eta: Go Amy! Now Sheldon should have thought back to when he ruined/spoiled the book Leonard was reading along with The Walking Dead. Sheldon hates it when people do it to him but it's okay for him to do it to others especially Leonard. I have always been anti Bev, however, I'm beginning to agree with her. Leonard: "Buck Up!". As for Sheldon, he only thinks of himself first. That part of the character (except for Amy) won't change! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyGirl Posted October 11, 2013 Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) I have always been anti Bev, however, I'm beginning to agree with her. Leonard: "Buck Up!". As for Sheldon, he only thinks of himself first. That part of the character (except for Amy) won't change! Sorry nothing Beverly does will every make me side with her. You don't emotional abuse your child(ren) and expect them to be okay in life. You don't use your child(ren) for your experiments and expect them not be damage in some manner! Sheldon always being a selfish arse maybe won't change is fine and he will continue to be one of my least favorite character. He and Beverly are in a tie as the least liked characters. Edited October 11, 2013 by ArmyGirl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodidIwin? Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Sorry nothing Beverly does will every make me side with her. You don't emotional abuse your child(ren) and expect them to be okay in life. You don't use your child(ren) for your experiments and expect them not be damage in some manner! Sheldon always being a selfish arse maybe won't change is fine and he will continue to be one of my least favorite character. He and Beverly are in a tie as the least liked characters. I'm not siding with Beverly for what a horrible mother she was. What I'm saying is Leonard you are now in your 30's, leave the past and appreciate what you have in the present. He never will be able to do the latter until he lets go of the former! JMO P.S.: My cell is dying so I'm not sure how much time I have left! Enjoy! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ku11 Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 (edited) I like the fact it started out as Penny being really attentive and concerting to Leonard, but then Leonard in the spur of the moment he decided to see how far he could test the boundaries of what he could get away with. And I don't think Stuart and Raj are looser's, the complete opposite, with all the odd's stacked againgst them, and againgst all adversity they are still trying to be positive and socialize, to me that is very endearing. As for Leonard not showing an interest in Penny's hobbies, well he did in S3, he tried to learn more about the rule's of Football, so he could converse with Penny's friend's, so he has at least attempted in the past to be a part of Penny's world, so I don't agree it has been a one sided relationship. Penny has never visited the university, other then to make out with Leonard haha, in S3 she wanted to learn more about Leonard's job, so she got Sheldon to help her (for the record I am surprised Sheldon and Penny are even friend's, the amount of thing they don't have in common, and philosophy on life, and their general outlook on life are so vast it is amazing the universe hasen't collided by now lol), obviousley Sheldon got impatient with Penny, but she ended up undermining Leonard's work without realizing it, Sheldon can be a jerk sometime's, which is funny because of late Leonard has had more success in his field. So both Leonard and Penny at time's have shown interest in each other's friend's and hobbies, but I think their's more compromise now from both Leonard and Penny, so this time Leonard was looking for an excuse to get out of watching football, as last time it diddn't go so well haha. As for Beverley I have never got the impression from her that she treated Leonard horribly as a child because she is a horrible person, even go to Taahm, Evelyn never treated Charlie and Alan horribly because she is a horrible person, it's just the way she is built. The same way Sheldon is condecending and oblivious, it is just the way he is, he mean's well but he is absoulotely clueless when it come's to social and emotional intelligence. The same can be said for Beverley, from her vantage point when it came to raising Leonard, she saw him as a guinnie pig or an experiement, she looked at everything even her family as evidence it was all about science. but because of this she was so cold and distant, even Leonard's father never received love or approval, which resulted in Leonard's father cheating on her. Because of the way she is I feel Beverley over time has repressed and supressed all of her emotions, as it was not part of her psyche. Most of Leonard's behaviour early on in the show was a direct physical manisfestation of the way Beverley raised him, she has always been emotionally distant yet clinically she has always been aware of Leonard's need for approval from women, that directly correlates to Beverley. Their relationship is very similar to Charlie and Alan from Taahm, Evelyn treats them with no regard but loves them, guess that's the difference never seen evidence from Beverley she loves Leonard. So when she does stuff like this which is typical Beverley behaviour, some people'e normal pre-disposition to their judgement of her character, is she emotionally abused Leonard, don't think people have considered the fact that Beverley has always been emotionally stunted herself. Even in S3 when she hugged Leonard drunk, and she told Penny she has these warm feeling's inside, so I beleive deep down she loves Leonard, but never considered human emotion has a relevant part of human nature, just like Sheldon knowledge and education well always take precedence over human emotion. Not that I am siding with Beverley or excusing the way she has treated Leonard over the year's, but I am just saying their are reason's for the way she is, and I actually think it is great her and Penny are on such good term's, the fact they skype implie's their's a relationship their. afterall she well most likely be her mother in law one day. Edited October 12, 2013 by 3ku11 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djvang Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 At the risk of incurring the wrath of phantagrae, I didn't really like the episode. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantagrae Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Well, I don't care if some people didn't like it. It was pretty dang funny on all sides. This isn't a drama and no one is really emotionally damaged. Leonard had a weird, tough upbringing, but his mother really does love him and I daresay he does love her, even if he dislikes her parenting style. Many people are exasperated with their mothers over how they were raised. I think that he's generally mortified at her inappropriateness, but he's not really damaged. He's pretty normal, all things considered. I don't think he's hung up on what he went through as the child of such a person, he's just embarrassed that every aspect of his childhood has been published for everyone to read. Most people have embarrassing stories from their childhood and oftentimes our parents or families tend to bring up those incidents ("Remember when you were 5 years old and you...") Unfortunately for Leonard, his mother analyzed everything he did and then wrote about it and had it published for the whole world to read about. But otherwise, he came through it as a pretty normal person. So, no, I don't think Beverly was abusive. Her weirdness is exaggerated for the joke. That's how it's presented so that's how I take it, rather than trying to manufacture drama where it is not intended. YMMV. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ku11 Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 At the risk of incurring the wrath of phantagrae, I didn't really like the episode. haha everyone is entitled to an opinion, although from what I have seen 99% seem to love the episode as I did, although it wasen't as good as last week's episode it was really good, Season 7 at the way it is going could be the big bang's best season ever JMO. Just wondering why you exactly diddn't like the episode, was it personal preferance like the relationship's? All is your comedy taste a bit subjective for this episode, some people may have not found Leonard what he did funny, I did but everyone has different preferances. Not that it matters as TBBT was #1 for the night in all networks for the third week in the row, and that's all that matters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogravitasatall Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 I'm not siding with Beverly for what a horrible mother she was. What I'm saying is Leonard you are now in your 30's, leave the past and appreciate what you have in the present. He never will be able to do the latter until he lets go of the former! JMO P.S.: My cell is dying so I'm not sure how much time I have left! Enjoy! Well, none of us know how much time we have , so that's good advice. I'm skeptical about the "leave the past" part, however. Leonard been coping fairly well by avoiding Beverly. I think it's a good strategy. Helps explain why he is across the country from her. Even Tony Soprano was cowed by his mother and he killed people for a living. Then Penny chased the past down. Leonard had said to Penny that he didn't care what she did with the book, but don't talk to him about it. But she opened that Pandora's box, and then there were consequences. It's not like Beverly made a one-off faux pas. He's her subject matter and she has made money and reputation off of him. He can't escape the past. Drugs and booze could help but he has chosen distance. I think he's smart. It was hilarious, however. (I wonder if Penny's career after acting could as a be psychologist. Lots of material all around her. And Pamela Stephenson, wife of Billy Connelly, did that. She was an actress and now has a PhD.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmp Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Did anyone else notice in the episode that Leonard called Howard by his REAL name? If you listen when Howard knocks on the door and asks if he, Leonard, is ready for lunch and he shouts "1 Sec!". When he opens the door he actually says "Hey, Si", which as you know is Howards real name. This is on 11m 36 sec. for those interested. I cannot beleive the shows producers and everybody else missed it. Especially when you watch Gag Reels from previous seasons and see them getting them. It sounds like "Hey, sorry" to me and that's what the closed captioning says as well. I really like this episode. Highlight for me was Stuart's poses for profile pic. It was cute how Leonard milked the situation with Penny, kind of like Amy did last year when she got the flu. Wish we had gotten more Bev. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Zog Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 (edited) Sorry nothing Beverly does will every make me side with her. You don't emotional abuse your child(ren) and expect them to be okay in life. You don't use your child(ren) for your experiments and expect them not be damage in some manner! I'm not siding with Beverly for what a horrible mother she was. I never thought I was supposed to side with anyone! For once, they're not real persons, and secondly it's still a comedy, not a social drama! So, no, I don't think Beverly was abusive. Her weirdness is exaggerated for the joke. Don't get me wrong, I think You're eabsolutely right there, but: OF. COURSE. HER. WEIRDNESS. IS. EXAGGERATED. FOR. THE. JOKE!!! It's a comedy, for cryin' out loud! That's how comedy works! All characters are exaggerated, from Sheldon to Dr. Gabelhauser! They need to be exagerated to be funny! But they're not real, no matter how much You wanna side with them, or how much You claim that You know a guy who's perfectly the same as Sheldon or Howard or whatsoever! Because You don't! Believe me. No matter how strong the similarities are, normal persons don't act like that! They just don't! But of course You all know persons who are in a way like those characters, like self-centered Egomaniacs like Sheldon, unemphatic parents like Bev, pathetic loosers like Stuart, and so on. It is vital for the show that can build relations to the characters by either identifying themselves with them (that's why Leonard is usually more "normal", reality-based and a little less nerdy like the rest, so viewers can identify more easily with him) or identify other characters with people they know or are familiar with from their every day life experiences. You know, all that talk here about social structures and relationships reminds me of the good times in the early seasons, when the only steady couple in the whole show were Raj's parents! In a way it was much funnier then. Edited October 12, 2013 by Lord Zog Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tensor Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Yes, we all know they're not real. That doesn't make analyzing the relationships we see any less real, for those that want to analyze the relationship. For some, like me, for instance, it is enjoyable to analyze these things, and discuss them, even if they are not real. For others, seemingly like yourself , it's not. That doesn't make them wrong. However.... You know that Leonard's not real, right? He is what writers want to make him be. You telling everyone that Leonard is the more normal one, makes you guilty of the same thing you seem to want to tell others it's wrong to do, because the characters aren't real. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjc45 Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 great episode--- poor raj/stuart-no dates online. glad to see amy stand up to sheldon, than ruined it for me a big fan of little house. bernie was great to after howard to get her to have sex, did not take long for her to tell penny. glad to see penny was still in school, taked other classes it was over the summer while leonard was at the north sea. i am a guy and that nightie (lingerie) was HOT!!! on penny best part of the show Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsurrey Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 OF. COURSE. HER. WEIRDNESS. IS. EXAGGERATED. FOR. THE. JOKE!!! It's a comedy, for cryin' out loud! That's how comedy works! All characters are exaggerated, There is more to comedy than just exaggeration. http://www.wildbilly.dk/engelsk/humorousdevices.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Yes, we all know they're not real. That doesn't make analyzing the relationships we see any less real, for those that want to analyze the relationship. For some, like me, for instance, it is enjoyable to analyze these things, and discuss them, even if they are not real. For others, seemingly like yourself , it's not. That doesn't make them wrong. However.... You know that Leonard's not real, right? He is what writers want to make him be. You telling everyone that Leonard is the more normal one, makes you guilty of the same thing you seem to want to tell others it's wrong to do, because the characters aren't real. They're not real? Next thing you're going to tell me that Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy aren't real aren't ya? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantagrae Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Yes, we all know they're not real. That doesn't make analyzing the relationships we see any less real, for those that want to analyze the relationship. For some, like me, for instance, it is enjoyable to analyze these things, and discuss them, even if they are not real. For others, seemingly like yourself , it's not. That doesn't make them wrong. However.... You know that Leonard's not real, right? He is what writers want to make him be. You telling everyone that Leonard is the more normal one, makes you guilty of the same thing you seem to want to tell others it's wrong to do, because the characters aren't real. I don't know if you're addressing my comments, but what I mean is that the writers intend certain things and that's the interpretation they at "selling", if you will. This is similar to the Penny/Sheldon analysis--if he spent time with her while Leonard was away, was it because they secretly harbor a sexual desire for each other, or because the writers want to show them developing a friendship? One can read all kinds of motivations or feelings into the scenes, but one should temper such analysis with the understanding of what the writers intend, since the characters don't have any motivations or feelings apart from what the writers have given them. So, in this case, it doesn't appear that the writers are intending to show Leonard as a truly damaged character or to depict Beverly as some kind of abusive monster. This is apparent to me based on the other episodes we've seen with Beverly and Leonard and her interactions with the rest of the gang. Yes, she's brusque and inappropriate and clinical in her approach to everyone around her, but there are no villains on this show and no one has an abusive mother. So I look at the characters and their reactions based on this starting point, rather than taking them in some kind of other context. I do see Leonard as the "most normal" because he is obviously intended to be the straight man, and to some degree, the viewpoint of the audience. Not always, obviously, but he's often the one juggling the craziness around him. Everyone is certainly free to analyze the characters as they see fit, but I think that it can get lopsided when one starts with assumptions that are not based on the intent of the writers. JMHO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tensor Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 No phanta, it wasn't your comments. It was the comments in reply to yours. I thought that was obvious from my second paragraph. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Zog Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 (edited) You know that Leonard's not real, right? He is what writers want to make him be. You telling everyone that Leonard is the more normal one, makes you guilty of the same thing you seem to want to tell others it's wrong to do, because the characters aren't real. Ouchouchouch, ooouuhh that one really hurts! Hurts soo much! What is this? Polemics for beginners? What argument would You bring next? "Your mom..."? Edited October 12, 2013 by Lord Zog Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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