Episodes 7.04 "the Raiders Minimization" (October 10)

[Tensor]

I rated the first three episodes of the season as Very Good. But apparently that's not good enough for the majority.

As I stated before, it's kind of naive to post critical comments, on a site where the majority of posters will defend the show because they like it, and not expect rebuttal comments.

 

I'm not trying to change anyone's opinions. I simply state my opinion of each episode.

And others are stating what they think of your opinion. So how is that trying to change opinions, and your post aren't?

 

And I stated before, I rated the first three episodes as Very Good.

Which has nothing to do with my point, but it's a good distraction.

 

But anything short of glowing adoration of every second of every show is attacked as heresy.

Well, how is your complaining about the posts of others who dislike your opinion, different from their complaining about your posts on your opinion of the show?

[djvang]

As I stated before, it's kind of naive to post critical comments, on a site where the majority of posters will defend the show because they like it, and not expect rebuttal comments.

 

And others are stating what they think of your opinion. So how is that trying to change opinions, and your post aren't?

 

Which has nothing to do with my point, but it's a good distraction.

 

Well, how is your complaining about the posts of others who dislike your opinion, different from their complaining about your posts on your opinion of the show?

I've never accused anyone of trying to change opinions. They accused me of that.

 

It has everything to do with the point. People keep accusing me of hating the show but I've rated three of them as Very Good.

 

Because my opinion is about the show, not about the opinions of others.

 

It's not that difficult, is it?.

[Guest I'm not dead Cheryl]

Exactly, so why didn't he know this? I knew it! Sheldon has extreme cult film and television obsessions. They all do and I usually learn something, whenever the guys have one of their arguments but this was dead obvious. Also, I have seen loads of people on other sites come up with other arguments to refute her 'revelation' so why couldn't Sheldon? It's completely out of character. He's just getting dumber.

 

It doesn't have anything to do with being "dumber" or not. It has to do with the adoration that some movies can cause that we are blind to their flaws until someone points them out like I think it was the case with Sheldon in this episode.

 

Sheldon and the guys must have surely seen the film when they were kids. Kids will not make judgments on the plot generally so it makes sense that they didn't catch it. Years pass by and they keep watching it, but always under the "adoration glasses", therefore it makes sense that they didn't see it.

 

It happens to me a lot with movies I watched as a kid that I absolutely adored and that as I grew up some people pointed flaws (some others I noticed myself) that I never saw before, even with dozens of times watching them. Gremlins being the finest example (HOW F** HARD IT WAS, DO NOT GET THEM WET, DO NOT FEED THEM AFTER MIDNIGHT FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE. AND THEN IT HAPPENED AGAIN IN GREMLINS 2!")

Edited October 21, 2013 by Sursonica

[Tensor]

I've never accused anyone of trying to change opinions. They accused me of that.

Really:

 

The Protectors of the Show need to lighten up.

How's that not trying to change their opinion?

 

It has everything to do with the point. People keep accusing me of hating the show but I've rated three of them as Very Good.

It has everything to do with your point, not my point. But, again, a good distraction.

 

Because my opinion is about the show, not about the opinions of others.

 

It's not that difficult, is it?.

Well, it wouldn't be that difficult, except:

 

But anything short of glowing adoration of every second of every show is attacked as heresy.

That sure sounds like a complaint about someone's opinion or, again, how about this:

 

The Protectors of the Show need to lighten up.

Again, a complaint of someone's opinion and trying to change their opinion.

[Carlos]

It happens to me a lot with movies I watched as a kid that I absolutely adored and that as I grew up some people pointed flaws (some others I noticed myself) that I never saw before, even with dozens of times watching them.

 

That exact thing happens to me too, and I get pissed about it at first, but later I understand that when remembering a movie we saw (and loved) as kids we are not only remembering the movie itself, but how it made us feel, and I think that is why we hold to those opinions as tightly as we do, even beyond reason (sometimes). 

[djvang]

Really:

 

How's that not trying to change their opinion?

 

It has everything to do with your point, not my point. But, again, a good distraction.

 

Well, it wouldn't be that difficult, except:

 

That sure sounds like a complaint about someone's opinion or, again, how about this:

 

Again, a complaint of someone's opinion and trying to change their opinion.

I don't care if someone else loves every second of the show. But when I say I don't, they get offended. Why should they care about my opinion? Why does it bother them so much? When I said that the Protectors of the Show need to lighten up, I'm not trying to change their opinion in any way. Just asking that they allow others to disagree without being accused of hating the show.

 

You're arguing just for the sake of arguing. Your entire spinning is just distraction. Can't be bothered to play your silly game anymore.

Edited October 23, 2013 by djvang

[Tensor]

I don't care if someone else loves every second of the show. But when I say I don't, they get offended. Why should they care about my opinion?

Why should you care enough about their opinion to reply?

 

Why does it bother them so much?

Why does their opinion bother you so much?

 

When I said that the Protectors of the Show need to lighten up, I'm not trying to change their opinion in any way. Just asking that they allow others to disagree without being accused of hating the show.

If you don't like being accused of hating the show, then lighten up on the tone of your complaints. The wording you use makes it appear that you do indeed hate the show.

 

I'm also dismayed that the writers have apparently settled on the tired old "silly, childish boyfriend and the wise, patient girlfriend who loves him inspite of his buffonery" type of relationship for Sheldon & Amy. They threw away the refreshingly unique robot-couple in favor of a much-easier-to-write romcom cliche relationship.

It's sad that to TPTB it seems to be that IS all that now matters.(in regards to ratings)

Was it really necessary to demean the writers, or the producers when you could have simply said that you don't like the direction the relationship is taking? Is it any wonder with comments like this (among all your other highly negative comments) that someone would determine you hate the show?

 

You're arguing just for the sake of arguing. Your entire spinning is just distraction.

Spinning? Using your own quotes to show you contentions are wrong is spinning now? LOL

 

Can't be bothered to play your silly game anymore.

The usual answer when someone doesn't have a cognizant reply to points brought up. I can point out many more examples of insulting language in your "opinions". I simply pointed out that you are complaining about others doing the exact same thing you are doing, stating your opinion. Your opinion is of the show, and their opinion is of your comments(and then you make comments about their opinions, an even better example of how your complaints are silly). If you want to state your opinion, state your opinion, but you should just realize that using demeaning, insulting, or unnecessarily negative language in your comments is going to be seen as hating the show, and will get a response.

[djvang]

Why should you care enough about their opinion to reply?

 

Why does their opinion bother you so much?

 

If you don't like being accused of hating the show, then lighten up on the tone of your complaints. The wording you use makes it appear that you do indeed hate the show.

 

Was it really necessary to demean the writers, or the producers when you could have simply said that you don't like the direction the relationship is taking? Is it any wonder with comments like this (among all your other highly negative comments) that someone would determine you hate the show?

 

Spinning? Using your own quotes to show you contentions are wrong is spinning now? LOL

 

The usual answer when someone doesn't have a cognizant reply to points brought up. I can point out many more examples of insulting language in your "opinions". I simply pointed out that you are complaining about others doing the exact same thing you are doing, stating your opinion. Your opinion is of the show, and their opinion is of your comments(and then you make comments about their opinions, an even better example of how your complaints are silly). If you want to state your opinion, state your opinion, but you should just realize that using demeaning, insulting, or unnecessarily negative language in your comments is going to be seen as hating the show, and will get a response.

I HAVE said that. My first post about this episode was "I didn't really like the episode." I was met with "Just wondering why you exactly didn't like the episode." So when I explained why I didn't like the episode I got a long lecture on how I was "wrong" and I just don't understand the variables and nuances of the show....blah blah blah. So you see, simply stating that I didn't like the episode leads to all this. Over and over and over.........

 

I dont even know, or care, what your "points" are. You argue just to argue. Enough.

[3ku11]

I HAVE said that. My first post about this episode was "I didn't really like the episode." I was met with "Just wondering why you exactly didn't like the episode." So when I explained why I didn't like the episode I got a long lecture on how I was "wrong" and I just don't understand the variables and nuances of the show....blah blah blah. So you see, simply stating that I didn't like the episode leads to all this. Over and over and over.........

 

I dont even know, or care, what your "points" are. You argue just to argue. Enough.

That was me lol, I wasen't lecturing you, you gave an opinion, I think you said you don't like the relationship's in the show, I was just explaining why they are their that's all. And beside's aren't you arguing too? If you don't want to argue just ignore someone's post's simple. 

Edited October 24, 2013 by 3ku11

[Tensor]

I HAVE said that. My first post about this episode was "I didn't really like the episode." I was met with "Just wondering why you exactly didn't like the episode."

So, you thought it would make it better by becoming demeaning and insulting to the show?

 

So when I explained why I didn't like the episode I got a long lecture on how I was "wrong" and I just don't understand the variables and nuances of the show....blah blah blah. So you see, simply stating that I didn't like the episode leads to all this. Over and over and over.........

So, you got upset over someone giving you their opinion, over and over. Why exactly do you think other posters shouldn't be allowed to give you their opinion? Especially when you demand that they allow you to give your opinion.

 

I dont even know, or care, what your "points" are.

Of course you don't care, you haven't refuted any of them yet.

 

You argue just to argue. Enough.

You complain about me arguing just to argue, yet you continue to reply. So, aren't you by your definition, arguing just to argue?

[djvang]

So, you thought it would make it better by becoming demeaning and insulting to the show?

 

So, you got upset over someone giving you their opinion, over and over. Why exactly do you think other posters shouldn't be allowed to give you their opinion? Especially when you demand that they allow you to give your opinion.

 

Of course you don't care, you haven't refuted any of them yet.

 

You complain about me arguing just to argue, yet you continue to reply. So, aren't you by your definition, arguing just to argue?

So saying you don't like something about the show is considered insulting and demeaning? Fine. The forum should have a rule that no criticism is allowed. Problem fixed.

 

There's nothing to refute. You all act as if there's a right or wrong answer about whether someone likes the show as much as someone else. There isn't. You simply don't tolerate disagreement.

 

Done. Go play with someone else.

[phantagrae]

I think this horse is not only dead, it's now been pulverized...

[HollyAndOatmeal]

It's hard to stop replying to people on the internet

[Nogravitasatall]

It's hard to stop replying to people on the internet

No, it's really easy... Oh, wait.

[Tensor]

So saying you don't like something about the show is considered insulting and demeaning? Fine. The forum should have a rule that no criticism is allowed. Problem fixed.

Actually, insinuating that the writers are lazy is insulting and demeaning.

 

There's nothing to refute. You all act as if there's a right or wrong answer about whether someone likes the show as much as someone else. There isn't. You simply don't tolerate disagreement.

This whole thing started with you complaining about people complaining about your opinion. You want to be able to give your opinion of the show. Fine, no problem. But, if you want to do that, then others should be able to give their opinion of what you think of the show. If you want the right to give your opinion of the show, then others have the right to give their opinion of what you think of the show. Yet, when they do, you complain about it.

 

Done. Go play with someone else.

Let's see, you've couldn't be bothered to play my silly game anymore, there was "Enough", and now your "Done".

[gwhh]

 

 

GIF

Edited October 25, 2013 by gwhh

[coopernokia]

I enjoyed this episode, especially Raj's starting of the scavager hunt.

 

Have a question related to this episode though hopefully you can help with?

 

Leonard is wearing a jacket in it with a blue hood. Does anyone know where to get it?

 

Below is a picture of the jacket 

 

http://www.tvequals.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/The-Big-Bang-Theory-Season-7-Episode-4-The-Raiders-Minimization-1.jpg

 

Thanks 

[vonmar]

Tweeted by Paramount Entertainment last night:

‏@ParamountMovies
Amy can never ruin #RaidersOfTheLostArk for us @BigBang_CBS! #WeLoveIndy  pic.twitter.com/lj0C2W2H6M

Retweeted by The Big Bang Theory

[dellamino]

I have to admit I tuned out at around 6x5/6x6 and I'm just catching up (I'm currently at 7x6) but I just had to comment on this one, because of Beverly. Love what she had done to her hair.

She may be 20 years my senior, but, aside from Sophia Loren, I'd be hard pressed trying to figure a woman more attractive.

Now, please stop staring at me that way and get back to business. >

[Mislav]

I find Beverly hilarious - Christine Baranski is so funny she makes my toes curl. In this particular instance, Leonard got what was coming to him. He took Penny's kindness and sympathy and then milked it egregiously, and then bragged about doing so to Howard. He was clearly owed a major smackdown, and it was brought from the place all his greatest smackdowns stem - his mother. I really have no arguments with it. I understand that Leonard has looked for sympathy and understanding his whole life and never really found comfort - until this instance with Penny. I think that having someone be sympathetic and sweetly try to make him feel better rather than show cold indifference to his emotional state was so unusual that he got completely drunk on it and then ran away with it. I find that totally understandable and certainly don't hate him for it, but I also don't see it as an excuse. I'm always fond of the lesson that kharma is a bitch, and I liked the storyline and resolution here better than I did, say, Leonard having a legitimate problem with Priya and Beverly just telling him to, "buck up, sissy pants." He really didn't deserve any of that in that case, but in this case he did, so I appreciated the humor and Beverly's appearance more. Leonard went too far with milking Penny's sympathy, and it got shut down in such a way that you know he learned his lesson and will stop doing it, and you kinda feel sorry for him even if he got himself into that particular mess.

I thought that Raj and Stuart were incredibly funny. Kevin's faces to the camera during his photo shoot were pure genius. I was laughing so hard over those. Also, I think that the experience of online dating is genuine to how it really works. Even if you're relatively attractive or sweet-natured, the dating world can be total hell. Putting yourself out there like Raj and Stuart are doing is brave, and that they keep being hopeful despite all of the smackdowns makes me root for them.

Amy and Sheldon's storyline was both funny and interesting. I got chills when Amy tells Sheldon he can be honest about his feelings, and he snaps from trying to seem at ease with some of his nervous twitching as he was suppressing his emotions to the way he leaps forward, suddenly his body connecting with how he feels, and he tells her that he's mad at her. It was some amazing acting there on Jim's part, and quite fascinating to the development of their relationship and Sheldon's evolution. They seem to be hitting a nail on the head about Sheldon connecting to his emotional side and, most importantly, displaying them openly and directly to the people around him. It takes more trust in the people around you to be able to do that.

And if you think that Sheldon has no problem voicing his emotions and feelings, I'm really not sure what show you have been watching. This is a guy who, seasons back, was asked, "How does that make you feel," and answered with, "I don't understand the question." Or, when riddled with jealousy by watching Amy date Stuart, took such backwards routes as stalking Stuart's Facebook page, lashing out and defriending all of his friends when they suggest he has feelings for her, and then trying to ask Penny out on a date as part of a manipulative game to make her jealous. As recently as Leonard leaving for the North Sea, Sheldon dealt with this by warning him about death by drowning or sharks, and even went so low as to throw Leonard's relationship with Penny in his face to try to make him consider not leaving. When confronted by Leonard about his unique blend of "concern and selfishness," Sheldon will not admit to having those feelings even while he plunges on with behavior clearly motivated by those feelings.

Even while Leonard is gone, Sheldon sits on the couch with Penny, denying strenuously that he misses Leonard while listing off waffles, zipper-help, and night time knocks on the wall in loving detail as clear evidence of how desperately he actually misses him. In fact, he's so worried about Leonard, and misses him so much, it manifests in his subconscious in the form of a nightmare of Leonard being taken by the Kraken. His response is to show up at Penny's and suggest he better sleep there because SHE is the one who is probably having a hard time sleeping, again, operating from denial of his feelings which he projects onto her. Another example of Sheldon going sideways instead of straight when in emotion distress is when Leonard dissolves the roommate agreement. Sheldon throws the circuit breaker and tries to demonstrate all the reasons why he's a valuable asset to Leonard as a friend and roommate to make him resign it and come back again. This sideways dealing is clearly Sheldon's established modus operandi. He could just tell Leonard he misses him, wants him back, and appreciates all that Leonard does for him, but he's not capable of it.

The level of denial, particularly his inability to express his emotions in a straightforward manner, with Sheldon is immense and has been a front-and-center issue with him since the beginning. It's been portrayed a zillion different ways throughout all 6 seasons, and is a major theme coming into season 7 as well. In this episode, I find it greatly fascinating and in total keeping with the canon that when Amy confronts Sheldon about his mode of operation he says it's because that's how it's parents did it. He goes sideways at things because of trauma from watching his parents marriage implode, and he's learned these passive-aggressive and indirect ways of dealing from watching them and from his relationships from his youth. (I imagine that the bullying only double-downed on reinforcing the idea that "being himself" and "being honest about the way he feels or thinks" was completely unacceptable, and he had to find other ways to manage himself. He looked externally for other role-models, and found Spock, Data - brilliant, emotionless, in control, untouchable - and the rest is history.)

Oh, and he also does this because it's funny.

I know a lot of people latched onto Sheldon's "how can someone not know how they feel" from last season as evidence that Sheldon knows precisely how he feels, but I think that just because Sheldon knows he loves trains, hammerhead sharks and dislikes holding hands that's hardly proper evidence that the man's crystal clear on how feels about everything in his life. He's obviously mixing up opinions and emotions. I thought the man was clearly fooling himself, but apparently the statement also fooled some people in the audience because a lot of people use that as evidence that Sheldon has no inward uncertainy or emotional turmoil. However, I think there's far more evidence to the contrary. Sheldon has used denial and condescension as his primary coping skills all his life, but they aren't getting him where he wants to go anymore. So they are starting to bleed off at times, and watching that happen is as fascinating. Almost as fascinating is watching what type of viewer does or does not like seeing Sheldon make this progress, but that's another post for another day.

Back to Leonard & Beverly - Sorry, Phanta, but I have to disagree with you on the idea that it's clear Beverly loves Leonard and Leonard loves her. I think Beverly's ability to love is pretty limited. And I have to disagree with you that she wasn't incredibly abusive towards him or that he was not deeply scarred psychologically and emotionally by his upbringing. Also, I believe that Leonard is the middle child or that the show didn't really think that one through. When Raj threatens to have his way with Leonard's sister, Leonard says she's 36 and married, indicating that she was at least 6 years older than him. But when Beverly comes to visit Leonard the first time, she mentioned his YOUNGER brother, Michael. So, apparently, Leonard is the oldest boy but middle child, but I think he really gets the dirty end of the stick between all his siblings.

Beverly's books don't show any love towards Leonard at all - Needy Baby, Greedy Baby and The Disappointing Child. What she did with the Easter Eggs?

Beverly is a nightmare of a parent, and she messed up Leonard something fierce. He has consistently shown and mentioned this throughout the series. He was on a continual quest for love that was never given, and as this episode proved, he was angry at him Mom all the time and unable to express his feelings without her misunderstanding and twisting it into something it was not. Not only that, but she has put every single one of his most empbarrassing moments growing up out there for the world to read about, leaving him with barely a single shred of dignity. His issues with insecurity, which hamper his relationship with Penny, all tie back to her. I think Leonard got a hard smackdown in this episode - and he deserved it this time - but overall I feel for him greatly and think he had a horrid, horrid childhood in which, just like Sheldon, he was denied self-expression and understanding and room in which to be himself.

The most fascinating thing about Leonard and Sheldon's relationship is that they both come from embattled backgrounds and borderline abusive childhoods, but they took entirely different defensive and coping strategies. Sheldon decided to shut down emotionally, and to place himself above it all. He aspired to be detached and unemotional and used his brilliance in academics to get out as fast as he could. On the other hand, Leonard "knuckled under" and went the people-pleasing route, trying to jump through every hoop, such as giving up rap music for academics, writing papers to be graded for Christmas, striving for the highest academic achievements in the sciences in a fruitless, hopeless bid to try to win his parent's attention, love and approval. They couldn't have taken more different strategies, but I think that there's an unspoken understanding between the two of them that they know the horror the other faced and what coping methods they took, and their entire relationship is built on sometimes using the others weaknesses to their advantage, sometimes just accepting the other and the comfort in being around someone who accepts you for who you are as a shelter against the world outside, and supporting the other through thick and thin.

Sometimes you need episodes which might not seem exciting on the surface, but which build certain blocks necessary for plot development later. Obviously, those types of stories come early in the season. I think that this was one of them - we hit on issues for all 7 characters here (oh, and no, I don't think that Bernadette was a shrew or that there was signs of divorce for Howard and Bernadette. If anything, it showed that they are settling into their marriage and operating at a higher level than the other two couples as far as relating to each other) that show where they are "on the path of life." To me it was a very fascinating check in with everyone's psychological standpoints and issues, which I find deeply interesting and gives the show more than the take-it-or-leave-it fluff we get most of the time.

So for me it was actually a very good episode, one that I found funny but also very interesting.

I feel weird for even replying on this thread, after almost a year passed since the episode aired. But since I stumbled upon this thread and read some comments I feel need to reply.

Don't get me wrong, but I honestly found Penny's behaviour repulsive. Both she and Leonard were in wrong them and I actually really like Lenny. But with her previous behaviour in mind, also keeping in mind how the whole thing started (with her refusing to stop reading a book basically based on childhood abuse that Leonard had suffered and even trying to make a joke out of it despite him clearly showing that he is uncomfortable with that) and the fact that she rarely ever shows her "kindness and sympathy" (please), to Leonard or anyone else, and that her punishment was basically forcing Leonard to re live her childhood traumas, I feel little to no sympathy to her. I felt that this episode was for Penny the same that "The Itchy Brain Simulation" was to Sheldon (though she wasn't behaving very well in that episode either). Also when you had been abused and neglected for years from the hands of your own parents chances are memories still haunt you as an adult even without your girlfriend teasing you about that, and I think that Leonard finding out that he can have sex with Penny by bringing it up was his way of trying to get something good from an overly traumatic experience to make it easier to live with. He was still in the wrong and had no right to use Penny but I honestly feel that Penny was more in the wrong there and I can't think of any possible way to justifie her behaviour since she had many more ways of dealing with the situation, we may actually have a very emotional episode dealing with some serious problems and have Leonard and Penny coming to terms with their flaws and making up if the writer's weren't going for laughs (I didn't get any).

[Stephen Hawking]

 

On 10/10/2013 at 4:19 AM, Shamyfan said:

Sneak peak for 7x4

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlKsKn-Fijw&sns=em

I'm getting "This video is private"    

Edited March 18, 2016 by Stephen Hawking

[Stephen Hawking]

Why is Leonard so proud of having sex with Penny, in his lab?

 

He already had sex in the lab with her, a whole season ago.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Stephen Hawking

[Stephen Hawking]

When Raj and Stuart are writing their dating profiles, they take a break and have a beer.

On the table is a stand, on which are three glass domes, colored red, yellow and green.

Anyone know what it is?

Edited March 18, 2016 by Stephen Hawking

[Stephen Hawking]

Why was Beverley swatting her husband's bottom with a ping pong paddle, when, according to her:-

"Aside from a pro forma consummation of our marriage, his father and I only had intercourse for the purposes of reproduction."

[joyceraye]

7 minutes ago, Stephen Hawking said:

Why was Beverley swatting her husband's bottom with a ping pong paddle, when, according to her:-

"Aside from a pro forma consummation of our marriage, his father and I only had intercourse for the purposes of reproduction."

Assuming Beverley was telling the truth, they would have been indulging in foreplay with the intention of trying for another child.