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ArmyGirl

Bob Newhart Returns To Tbbt And Bill Nye As Himself

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We're in 100% complete agreement he doesn't get nor deserve sympathy... =) Because even when it is just bad luck, he's a jackass... like when he got sick when his mom was visiting... for a split second, they started to feel bad, until he shoved it in their faces he was getting his mom's full attention back...

Well it's not like he was saying "I get my mother's attention and you guys don't attention from yours", more like "I get my mother all to myself". Besides, Sheldon doesn't get to see his mother often, so of course he would get upset when she was spending more time with his friends. For example, remember in The Thespian Catalyst when he and Penny were acting his Star Trek fanfiction? Well, in the story, Sheldon was getting upset because he was leaving his mother, and I think he really subconsciously missed his mother. So I really don't get how "rubbing it in their faces" really judges if a character is sympathetic or not.

I think most get that though I don't know if that's a 100% true. though. Still I don't think everyone thinks that should be an excuse for him and a sort of "free pass" when he does something "dumb".

I agree that he doesn't get a free pass most of the time, but I didn't say he was being dumb, he just lacks common sense. Edited by wammyguide

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After considering the arguments, I'll make some amendments and clarifications.

 

Sheldon loses - he does. However, I will concede that most of the time he's hoisted on the his own petard. I've actually argued this one before when people have been defensive of Sheldon and the bad things that happen to him, or upset that people laugh or cheer for some of the sadder things that happen to him. Half the time, due to Sheldon's own arrogance, he deserves to lose. Often, he's sinking his own ship. Other times when he is losing you can cheer for it because overall, in anyone else's eyes, he's really winning. I think the majority of the time when he's losing, it's either his own fault or for his own good.

 

Also, on reflection, I think that the person he loses to the least is definitely Leonard. Although this is also debatable, because Leonard has made the choice to be there. It's Leonard's option to knuckle under, or to stay in the relationship and as Sheldon's best friend. So sympathy towards Leonard can also only go so far, because there's obviously things that Leonard gets out of this relationship and he's the one who has chosen to stay in it. If it was really such hell, he could walk.

 

Overall, I think Sheldon and Leonard have their battles that do, in the long run, somehow seem to even out.

 

What it comes down to is that I end up just being a swing voter - each battle is different and which team I'm rooting for is subjective to the circumstances. For instance, with Leonard's Day - there's a part of me which is hoping for follow up on this one. For whatever reason, I have hope that when it comes time for Leonard's Day this year, that for whatever reason Penny or Amy or both of them get wind of it and decide to hold Sheldon's feet to the fire and make him employ his eidetic memory to writing down each and every task or favor Leonard carried out for him in the past year, and somehow that in this preponderance of evidence Sheldon comes to realize he owes Leonard far more than a crappy card. That's a particular battle that I would like to see Leonard win and Sheldon lose - I think Sheldon is lucky beyond words to have Leonard for a friend, and I wish that he would, even for just a day, come down off his high horse and state of denial and be willing to openly acknowledge that and make a real effort on Leonard's behalf.

 

The Proton battle is different, and honestly I'm not really against Leonard so much. I'm really only reading the episode summary and shaking my head.

 

In the Proton case, while Leonard was certainly excited about it, it's Sheldon who tracked him down, Sheldon who paid him for his time and services, Sheldon who was delighted beyond measure to have Proton in his home, Proton who was like the only "friend" Sheldon had which kept him partially sane as a child, Sheldon who went to the hospital with Proton, Sheldon who went out of his way repeatedly to comfort the man that was clearly his hero and like a father-figure to him. Sheldon doesn't just worship the guy, he really loves him, and I think Sheldon has genuine feelings and his heart is in the right place here and clearly he's going to feel hurt and betrayed.

 

The thing which upsets me about it is....why does Proton opt for or admire Leonard over Sheldon, who is bending over backwards to try to boost the guy's ego and make him understand just how important and special he is in his own life, and the life of many scientists?

 

Because he has a hot girlfriend.

 

The term "everyone" has been thrown around in  5 - 6 different threads today, and it's driven me nuts every time. Someone commented that "all fangirls, everyone" wants a Sheldon Cooper who is nothing but Edward Cullen in disguise. (Nope. Not even close.) Or that "everyone" lusts after their parents and thus that's a great pro-Shenny argument. (No.) Or that "everyone" enjoys the addition of Bernadette and Amy to the show. (Nope.) Or in this thread, where "everyone" thinks Leonard is the real genius for having a hot girlfriend, and again the answer to that is a resounding, "not even close."

 

In this particular case, I really feel for Sheldon. His feelings and admiration for Proton are genuine, and Proton sees him as nothing more than a crazy guy and focuses solely on the hot girl while simultaneously listening to her comments about the potato powering the clock and thinking she's a total idiot. But, as Penny once mocked all on her own, who cares about any other aspect of a woman "as long as she's pretty?"

 

For some, perhaps this is just a statement of truth. Penny's hot, that trumps all, and everyone is on the same page about this.

 

Except that we're not. Penny's hotness is not the end-all-be-all virtue to some (particularly another woman who really gets nothing out of it) that it is to others. I love Penny because she's accepting, sweet, kind, funny, strong, and altogether pretty fabulous as a person. Her hotness is one of her least valuable qualities in my eyes.

 

I'm aware that mileage may vary on that, but the thing is that it's not even the point. The point is that I cheer for either Leonard or Sheldon based on the circumstances of the argument, and I'm also aware that sometimes the winning/losing points are not wholly clear. Sometimes winning is really losing, or losing is really winning, and between these two best friends it's complicated and they've been in this relationship far too long for them not to bear equal responsibility for where the relationship is.

 

So in the end, it comes down to the merits of the case. In this case, I think that Sheldon has genuine feelings, not to mention that he - in one of the things he does so rarely - really went the distance for Professor Proton. As a reward, he's about to get kicked in the teeth. Proton will reach out for help - to Leonard, and not Sheldon. Leonard will say yes, and in this case, if Sheldon sees things as a betrayal I actually think he has a case.

 

So I'd love to see Sheldon and Bill Nye team up to win this one. However, I have a feeling they won't, because from my perspective, Sheldon generally loses in these guest star situations (loses to Wil Wheaton, loses to Hawking, etc) and when he decides to take up a vendetta. But in this case I'd actually like to see Sheldon win; not so much to win over Leonard, but rather to win over Proton, who I continue to see as a rather bitter, shallow old man to whom both Sheldon and Leonard were incredibly kind. Perhaps in the new episode he'll be redeemed in some way, but I went from feeling incredibly sorry for the wheezing old man on the staircase to really disliking him by the end of that episode. (The character. I love Bob Newhart something fierce.)

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I don't know that Proton only values the hot girlfriend or chooses Leonard because he's the one with the hot girlfriend.

I think that the "hot girlfriend" jokes were made partly because Proton is a "normal" outsider who doesn't know or understand the dynamics or who these people are. I don't know that that gag will be brought up again.

He's expecting to do a show for children and instead finds himself being stared at by a seemingly crazed stalker fan.

At any rate, I don't think we have very much information on why Proton asks Leonard to help him. It may very well be that whatever it is he needs help with requires Leonard's specific skills or something and probably has nothing to do with any thought of Penny.

I'm not going to label Proton as a bad guy until it's really evident.

Sheldon getting upset is probably understandable, and I'm eager to see how Bill Nye fits in.

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Me too. Love Bob Newhart but didn't like Prof. Proton because of that. Hope it changes.

 

Perhaps Pr. Proton was just at a real low point. The fact that he is asking for Leonard's help with an experiment perhaps implies Proton will be pulling himself out of his disillusionment.

I don't know that Proton only values the hot girlfriend or chooses Leonard because he's the one with the hot girlfriend.

I think that the "hot girlfriend" jokes were made partly because Proton is a "normal" outsider who doesn't know or understand the dynamics or who these people are. I don't know that that gag will be brought up again.

He's expecting to do a show for children and instead finds himself being stared at by a seemingly crazed stalker fan.

At any rate, I don't think we have very much information on why Proton asks Leonard to help him. It may very well be that whatever it is he needs help with requires Leonard's specific skills or something and probably has nothing to do with any thought of Penny.

I'm not going to label Proton as a bad guy until it's really evident.

Sheldon getting upset is probably understandable, and I'm eager to see how Bill Nye fits in.

 

Well it only makes sense to ask an experimental physicist to help with an experiment.

After all Sheldon is a theoretical physicist so he would not likely be asked. Very few people can actually tolerate working with him is a second issue.

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I don't think Prof. Proton picking Leonard was in any way about who he was, it's all about what he is. Leonard is an Experimental Physicist, he does experiments for a living. Sheldon is a Theoretical Physicist, he thinks experiments are a quaint pastime for lesser minds. Prof. Proton is setting up an experiment he went to the only scientist who respected him and was qualified to help, which is Leonard.

 

As for Sheldon's "losses", well let's examine your list

 

He lost to Kripke when they fought their robots...

He loses to Penny when she gets banished from the aprtment after 3 strikes and she calls his mom and she makes him apologize...

Dr. Stephanie Barnett gets the better of him when she convices Sheldon that if he talks his throat will collapse and he will suffocate...

He lost to Raj & Howard when they forced him to go meet Amy for the first time... a good outcome ensued, but they still got the better of him...

He lost to Wil Wheaton at the Magic tournament...

He lost to Wil Wheaton at bowling...

He lost to the judge when defending himself over running a red light (which IMO his case seemed pretty solid to me)...

1. All of the guys lost, not just Sheldon

2. Considering just how much he had crossed the line, he totally deserved it

3. It's a joke that lasted for one scene, they've all played pranks on each other, if that is the best you can come up with for a loss Sheldon clearly doesn't lose enough

4. He went along with it because he wanted to prove to them that a computer couldn't find a suitable companion for him, he did not lose anything

5. He lost because he made the game personal, so Wheaton reciprocated

6. See above, and I would say Leonard lost a hell of a lot more there

7. He basically called the judge an idiot and then tried to confuse a simple issue with a bunch of semi-legal rationalizations, which really didn't work as a defense

 

Overall most "losses" by Sheldon are either petty, self-inflicted, or extremely well deserved.

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For what it's worth I agree with Occam's Chainsaw here except for number two where I am thinking he did not actually lose to Penny at all. He simply gave-in to his own mother. Penny did not actually win she just called on a higher authority (well Sheldon was still willing to treat his mother as one).

 

Penny did not even come up with the idea; Leonard did.

An idea that comes back to bite Leonard quite hard in S7e4 when Penny....

 

I said for what it's worth because Sheldon's winning and losing is not something I care about at all.

 

I am glad Sheldon was eventually able to become friends with Wheaton because I have have generally not enjoyed that story line (although I know some people have). I always saw it as an allusion to "Whrath of Kahn" (a movie that seemed like a rehash of the episode "Space Seed" which was an episode I did not like either). Kirk gives that Kahn line is the same way Wheaton gives the Wheaton line.

Edited by djsurrey

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For what it's worth I agree with Occam's Chainsaw here except for number two where I am thinking he did not actually lose to Penny at all. He simply gave-in to his own mother. Penny did not actually win she just called on a higher authority (well Sheldon was still willing to treat his mother as one).

 

Penny did not even come up with the idea; Leonard did.

An idea that comes back to bite Leonard quite hard in S7e4 when Penny....

 

I said for what it's worth because Sheldon's winning and losing is not something I care about at all.

 

I am glad Sheldon was eventually able to become friends with Wheaton because I have have generally not enjoyed that story line (although I know some people have). I always saw it as an allusion to "Whrath of Kahn" (a movie that seemed like a rehash of the episode "Space Seed" which was an episode I did not like either). Kirk gives that Kahn line is the same way Wheaton gives the Wheaton line.

I think the point was no one was winning in that whole stupid war lol hence why Leonard fast tracked the process by helping Penny get one over Sheldon with his mother, showed to me where Leonard's loyalties lie too. So I can agree to a certain extent that Leonard revealing Sheldon's kryptonite bit him hard 5 season's later, but I guess very different situations. 

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I think the point was no one was winning in that whole stupid war lol hence why Leonard fast tracked the process by helping Penny get one over Sheldon with his mother, showed to me where Leonard's loyalties lie too. So I can agree to a certain extent that Leonard revealing Sheldon's kryptonite bit him hard 5 season's later, but I guess very different situations. 

Indeed the situations would be very different from Leonard's point of view. From Penny's point of view I imagine she thought Leonard was acting like a jerk just like Sheldon had been acting like a jerk in S2E7. So the immature things they were doing were completely different but they were still both immature things. Anyway the point is Leonard gave her a tool to use once and when she got mad enough again she used it again but this time against Leonard. There really is some irony in that.

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