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Amy, And Sheldon's Diabolical Treatment Of Leonard

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Leonard suffered greatly physically for Sheldon's delivery of a "teachable moment". Could this affect Amy's relationship with her sweet baboo. She seems rational and she might wonder if this is how he would deliver lessons to their children, that she hinted at wanting in The Tenure Turbulence. Not to mention he's smacked her. I'm not getting it. She seems like a perfectly nice person. Why isn't she or when will she be, drawing a line.

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What has that smack to do with how they would raise their children?

That clearly was sexual in nature, and she did not seem to mind at all.

 

I can see it coming to a point where Amy will take a good hard look at their relationship, but I think she would not give him an Ultimatum.

But she has already shown several times not to afraid to confront him, with her taking a stronger attitude each time.

 

- When they were suppose to go to her aunts 93rd birthday, she tried making a scene (with help of Penny), but failed a bit/

- In the Spoiler episode, she confronted him in his face about why she could not move in, and did not back down (shame we did not get to see how they made up)

- In the D&D sex episode, she clearly stated she understood him (that Sheldon consider this already very intimate), but still stated she wants more.

 

There probably are more scenes though.

 

I hope she will take a stand again this season, and hopefully taking it further again.

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I think that she did seem a little annoyed at the end when she told him that his plan was diabolical. In fact I don't know if she was annoyed or terribly sorry for Leonard. For a moment I thought she was going to grab some ice and stick it on his back to help him. I was kind of disappointed when she didn't. because they spend time together as Sheldon said once and I think they are friends. Plus Sheldon would have been offended that his girlfriend wasn't taking his side and she could have put him in his place.

That spanking thing. I get your point because Sheldon came up with it because his father used to do it to his brother as a punishment. I mean for Amy it was clearly sexual but I don't know if it was for Sheldon too.

I too don't think that she will give him an ultimatum because she knows Sheldon and she likes him just the way he is. Up to this point in s7 it seems like Amy can hadle him very well and that is the difference. If they ever have children she will know how avoid situations like that and how to make him see the right thing. I don't know if she had the right to interfere more in Sheldon's and Leonard's relationship but their children this is something else.

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Up to this point in s7 it seems like Amy can hadle him very well and that is the difference. If they ever have children she will know how avoid situations like that and how to make him see the right thing. I don't know if she had the right to interfere more in Sheldon's and Leonard's relationship but their children this is something else.

 

Indeed, she really knows how to "push his buttons" to make him behave most of the time.

You could see this clearly in the hospital when they go sing to Bernadette.

 

He really didn't want to be there, since he thinks she might be contagious.

But after almost ordering him to join them, he simply complies.

 

And I thought I read that in the upcoming episode she again tells him off when he misbehaves, and he reacts positive to that, which he would never do for others.

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But why does she accept being his outsourced conscience? He has his endearing quirks but his inability to empathise must be difficult to watch. I know that the two of them have stood apart from mere mortals and observed, but Amy has a capacity for empathy, as evidenced by her care for Penny. Sheldon on the other hand has to practice "awww" so he can fake it when necessary. I think they are going to move to some other space, different to where they are now. Otherwise Amy is going to start looking a little like a henchman, standing by, if Sheldon ever goes to such extremes again.

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I think she accepts it because she has her issues too, and might be afraid to push him away.

She does not want to risk losing what she has now (the best boyfriend ever to use her own words).

 

But I see the situations I mentioned earlier here, as proof that Amy is growing and getting more confident in confronting him.

So I think there will be a point she has another talk with him, and making him understand and willing to help him in his "working on it" quest.

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Koops thanks for the post many times you say what I have in mind I just don't have the words!! ;-) The main point of the show is to be funny so the writers thought it was funny just like that. IMO they didn't exactly did their best but there was potential mainly because it wasn't clear that Leonard is an idiot to continue or he is the loyal friend or that Sheldon is mean or the victim that tries to make a point. Eventually they could turn it any way they wanted they just turned it the wrong way.

@Chiany I love you signature *coy smile-sigh* and I to am a fool for eyecoitus!!! :-)

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Can I just point out that when they all returned from the arctic, Leonard only went to Texas to apologise to Sheldon because he wanted to get in with Penny, she was the one that made him, he wouldn't of done it otherwise

Also I thought the sweater thing was funny, Leonard could of stopped it at any moment but he's obviously used to emotional torture from his mother!

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Koops thanks for the post many times you say what I have in mind I just don't have the words!! ;-) The main point of the show is to be funny so the writers thought it was funny just like that. IMO they didn't exactly did their best but there was potential mainly because it wasn't clear that Leonard is an idiot to continue or he is the loyal friend or that Sheldon is mean or the victim that tries to make a point. Eventually they could turn it any way they wanted they just turned it the wrong way.

@Chiany I love you signature *coy smile-sigh* and I to am a fool for eyecoitus!!! :-)

 

Koops, you really are so good with words, I wish I had that.

 

The problem with an episode like this is, you can't make everyone happy.

The Lenny/Leonard fans think Sheldon was pure evil and should be killed in his sleep.

 

The Sheldonites/Shamies have mixed feelings, but overal seem to forgive him, to different degrees.

 

And yes, who just does not melt with Eye Coitus like this...

 

Can I just point out that when they all returned from the arctic, Leonard only went to Texas to apologise to Sheldon because he wanted to get in with Penny, she was the one that made him, he wouldn't of done it otherwise

Also I thought the sweater thing was funny, Leonard could of stopped it at any moment but he's obviously used to emotional torture from his mother!

 

True, but the big difference was that Amy was not in TBBT yet, so Sheldon was really on his own, and therefor ran back to his mommy.

I wonder what would have happened if Amy had been his GF back then.

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I didnt mean because of whether Amy was there or not but Leonard has done things that have upset Sheldon as well

 

Ow I understood that, I was just hypothazing about what would have happened if.

 

All guys pulled pranks, or terrible things like the North Pole thing on each other.

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Also, the episode would have been received a lot better if, in the end, Amy had made him realize that he took it too far and Leonard was in pain, have Sheldon agree about apologizing to Leonard and end the episode on that line that got cut about watching Super Mario Brothers, which was so classic Shamy: "It's terrible. You'll love it." But no, making the millionth Amy-is-sexually-frustrated-joke was more important than character growth or saving the episode from making Leonard and Sheldon come across as a dysfunctional friendship. This is the difference between the firs 7 episodes of this season and the latest one. The first 7 were pure, old school, feel good TBBT fluff, and people responded positively. This last one was darkish, weird, twisted late S6 style humor where the characters were being asses to each other. Personally, not my cup of tea.

 

In any case, both Leonard and Sheldon are messed up in their own way, Leonard pretty much admitted it in the previous episode and this episode kind of shows it. Leonard is so used to emotional torture and abuse that he doesn't even realize he ends up bringing it upon himself by sticking to things out of principle. And Sheldon is so obsessed with his need for closure that even if it's a prank he planned 7 years prior, before the awful lot of character growth he had in between, and despite the fact that it's physically harming his best friend, he will see it through to the end. All these 7 characters are messed up in a way. People (me included) tend to gang up on Sheldon over his reluctance to show Amy affection, but at the same time she should be aware of his issues and nagging about sex behind his back, especially when she knows he's trying, does not make her come across as the patient and understanding girlfriend we all think she is. She knew what she was getting herself into in S5, she had the choice between a "normal" guy and Sheldon. She sat between them, had a choice, and picked Sheldon. She is the one who changed the parameters of what she expects and wants from the relationship, when he obviously has a much much harder time to overcome his hangups than she does hers. So, really, it's not ALL onto Sheldon. If you think about it, she's bringing this whole "They think our relationship is a joke" drama upon herself by constantly making those comments around their friends. Does that mean Amy is a b*** who only has what she deserves? Of course not. She's just imperfect like everyone else, and has her needs and her weaknesses, she loves him and just wants to show that physically. Does that mean that poor Sheldon is the victim of impatience and her needs? No. He wanted to be in this relationship in the first place and he is the one who wants to keep her to himself, therefore he has to be honest with himself about the fact that he has already called dibs in his head on being physical with her or he'd just tell her to "Follow her endocrine system" with someone who can satisfy her needs. But he most definitely does not want her to follow her endocrine system, or any other body part, anywhere that isn't with him and hasn't wanted her to for the longest time (whether he really wanted it even back then with Zack is debatable: "Please don't drag this out").

 

Then you have Raj's pathological neediness that makes him walk over his friends for women sometimes, Penny's tendency to ignore facing her issues that turns her into a borderline alcoholic in some episodes, Howard's dysfunctional relationship with his mother and how that impacts his marriage. Bernadette is probably the only one of the 7 that isn't really messed up in some way, unless you count the supervillain hiding in her. Every single one of these characters is messed up and imperfect, and they all do and say horrible things at different times. Like real people do, really. God knows if they were all perfect Wesley Crushers we would have gotten bored a long time ago. 

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Indeed, she really knows how to "push his buttons" to make him behave most of the time.

You could see this clearly in the hospital when they go sing to Bernadette.

 

But.... you can go both ways, with this one, becuase when she tried to help him get over his need of closure, she failed miserably, and Sheldon didn't behave the way she wanted him to at all.

But why does she accept being his outsourced conscience? He has his endearing quirks but his inability to empathise must be difficult to watch. I know that the two of them have stood apart from mere mortals and observed, but Amy has a capacity for empathy, as evidenced by her care for Penny. Sheldon on the other hand has to practice "awww" so he can fake it when necessary. I think they are going to move to some other space, different to where they are now. Otherwise Amy is going to start looking a little like a henchman, standing by, if Sheldon ever goes to such extremes again.

 

I think what you say is very telling. We could say that Amy and Sheldon were pretty much alike when she came on to the show, but she has grown much more tha him, because, as you say she has the ability to empathize, and is willing to experience things that might lead to growth.

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But.... you can go both ways, with this one, becuase when she tried to help him get over his need of closure, she failed miserably, and Sheldon didn't behave the way she wanted him to at all.

 

Obviously you can go both ways, it's just a matter of opinion, in which we don't have to agree.

And yes, you can say she failed in that instance, but that does not bother me much.

 

I don't expect (or maybe even want) her to succeed in everything she does with trying to help out Sheldon, because that would also get boring.

Like in real life, not everything can be fixed in one evening.

 

It's a long process for Sheldon, and I believe she knows that.

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I honestly don't think the writers were meaning to make Sheldon come across as a psychopath. Nuts, yes, but not as a psychopath. So I doubt this is meant to impact his relationship with Amy in any way.

 

The way the story was constructed was a delicate balance between Sheldon being insane and Leonard being an idiot who kept going along with it out of principle and I think, depending on the POV you look at it from, it can be one or the other or both. Leonard said he wanted to "prove a point" many times throughout the episode when people told him to take it off and Sheldon himself didn't seem all that phased about him quitting, he just made suggestions so Leonard would keep wearing the sweater and Leonard went along with it. Sheldon has never been so calculating and cold as they made him come across in this episode. All his pranks in the past have been awkwardly cute and down to an attempt to hide his real feelings, especially jealousy or missing his friends. This episode was honestly a total outlier.

 

And I wonder how much of it had to do with the fact that in several episodes this season or even last season you have had Sheldon show a softer/more mature/more empathic side to him, and maybe the writers are desperate to make the point that he isn't growing 'sappy'. I do honestly think the writers meant it to be funny, and instead it just came across as borderline torture and they're probably sitting in the writers room going "What? But that's not what we meant!". The writers have often done outrageous stuff in the name of "funny". I mean, think of Raj hitting on Bernadette and crying when she said yes to marrying Howard. That's one hell of a b****** thing to do and wish on your best friend. But I'm sure they're not really meaning to imply Raj would walk all over his best friend for a woman. Some often argue about the show being extremely inappropriate at making fun of Sheldon because he displays Aspergers traits. But I'm sure that the show doesn't actually mean to imply that's something to laugh at. Or all the inappropriately sexist/racist/politically incorrect jokes that regularly get reviewers or viewers up in arms about it.

 

I also disagree Sheldon has no capacity for empathy whatsoever. He has less than other characters, for sure, and much less than the average person, but just look at how protective he is of Leonard when it comes to Penny: last season with the whole "Please don't hurt my friend" deal and this year worrying that she was cheating on Leonard. He has seen how devastated Leonard was over losing Penny once and he doesn't want it to happen again. That is empathy. I don't think the "awww" is about faking it, it's about learning how to express oneself in certain situations. Besides, come on... most "social conventions" are all about faking. I bet 3/4 of people don't give a crap about small talk and nonsense but just smile and pretend to be interested out of politeness. The best "social butterflies" that everyone loves are the best ones at faking interest in other people. 

 

Now, whether this episode, together with Leonard's comments recently, will impact Sheldon and Leonard's roommmate-hood, that's a question. But even if it does it will probably be more of a "I can't take living with you anymore" thing ala Spoiler Alert than a "You need to be locked up and I want nothing to do with you anymore" kind of thing. I don't think the show is going in the direction of having Sheldon be rejected by everyone around him and turn into some sort of supervillain. They just pull out some plots that can be really awkward and controversial sometimes and things get a bit wonky.

 

As for Amy, the writers have a tendency to normalize her a lot and I think that's the reason why a lot of people end up putting themselves in her shoes, as an "average person", and ask "why isn't she dumping him?". But if you look at it from the perspective of the average person then you'll never going to understand why she sticks by him. Not that the writers shouldn't do a bit more work at showing us *why* she does, every once in a while, or otherwise that's just an excuse to let Sheldon get away with anything, if Amy just "takes it". But I think the issue with that is the same age-old issue. Because they want "Sheldon to stay Sheldon" (such a stupid phrase that has no real meaning, really, since it is totally subjective), they would rather tell you Amy and Leonard just love him so much that they'll put up with anything than show you Sheldon do things that make you understand why Amy and Leonard love him so much. And they hope you'll believe them. Problem is, a lot of people right now are starting to stop believing that. The bottom line of why these two stick by Sheldon is that Leonard had to deal with his mother his whole life, who is infinitely worse than Sheldon, and so can look past the crazy and appreciate the "loyal and trustworthy" man underneath. And Amy *was* Sheldon, so she gets what's in his head better than anyone (physical intimacy aside). But the writers can't expect people to constantly watch the show reminding themselves that Leonard has a psychotic mother and Amy was Sheldon. Some people have probably never even watched S4 or seen Beverly. They need to show why Sheldon is "worth it" more often than they are doing right now.

Could you please stop making all my points for me ?????? Nah, just kidding, Koops. You actually said exactly what I wanted to say much better than I could ever have. That being said I was very put off, by Sheldon's meanness this last episode.

Also I thought the sweater thing was funny, Leonard could of stopped it at any moment but he's obviously used to emotional torture from his mother!

 

And we'll agree to disagree. I thought the sweater thing, from Shedon's perspective, was vile , low, pathetic, mean, cruel, diabolical (to use Amy's words), un-funny and not what you would expect from a friend. Of course Leonard is to blame as well but that doesn't excuse Sheldon's behavior. And furthermore, even Sheldon's proposal that Leonard use an itchy sweater so he can feel what he feels is stupid and unimaginative.

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Can I just point out that when they all returned from the arctic, Leonard only went to Texas to apologise to Sheldon because he wanted to get in with Penny, she was the one that made him, he wouldn't of done it otherwise

Also I thought the sweater thing was funny, Leonard could of stopped it at any moment but he's obviously used to emotional torture from his mother!

Yes, Sheldon is a grown up and Leonard had a chance to progress his life, (Sheldon was hoist by his own petard), and yes, Leonard must be habituated to suffering. LOL.

may I say I'm glad everyone remains good humoured. :)

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I dunno about you guys but I'd forever be indebted to someone who saved my life.

Edited by Dracones

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I dunno about you guys but I'd forever be indebted to someone who saved my life.

 

 

So there is no expiration date on the 'Save Someone Life Card"?  Also does that mean you get to crap all over that person after you saved said person life?  You get to belittle that person? You get to degrade that person? You get to do all kinds of mean and vile things to that person? You get to treat that person worst than you would treat someone on your enemy list?  

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Wait, who saved who's live?

Am I missing something?

Sheldon saved Leonard from being blown up by his own unstable rocket fuel, as seen in "The Staircase Implementation."

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk

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Sheldon saved Leonard from being blown up by his own unstable rocket fuel, as seen in "The Staircase Implementation."

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk

Ow that, I never considered it really life threatening.

But that could be possible.

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I'm just glad Koops put some perspective into this tired old argument about Sheldon being so "mean". The writer's probably went a little far with this one, but it only seemed like such a cruel prank that went "too far" because guess who took it that far? The man wearing the sweater. No party has more blame than the other, they fed off of each other's hang ups (Leonard's being he was trying to make a point, Sheldon's being he was trying to teach a lesson).

That being said, the writers are truly doing a better job of allowing Amy to stand up for herself, and assuming that Sheldon and her ever decide to settle down together (which is likely), it is very hard to believe that a man raised by a character like Mary Cooper and enamored with his Meemaw could ever be heartless to his own offspring, if they ever choose to have any.

I re-watched the Fish Guts episode the other day, and was truly taken aback by the sympathy Sheldon showed for Amy in her time of sickness (well, when she wasn't faking sick). His body language was different, he apologized more frequently, and his support was unwaivering. This example alone gives me hope that if Sheldon ever procreates, he'll be just like any other first-time father--his heart will bleed for his little one.

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