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The Sheldon-Leonard Friendship

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It was so beautiful, I can't say enough good things about it. You feel the full weight of how much Leonard means to Sheldon, especially in the moment immediately after. Ahhh, it's perfect. I'm gonna cry again just thinking about it. I can't wait to see it again.

 

I have high hopes that this episode might finally get them the Emmy for best comedy.

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I really think it will. This season has been great. The show has always been funny, but it seems like this season they've gone so much deeper with all the characters, but especially Sheldon. I love that Jim's been given the opportunity to do some really meaty, emotional scenes. But Johnny was amazing in this scene, as well. You can see how touched Leonard is.

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*sniff* so adorable........

TBBT-7x22-08.jpg

 

 

Aww - I can't wait to see that,scene,  I think I'm looking at my future new avatar - the way Sheldon and Leonard's friendship has evolved and grown over the last 7 seasons has been a beautiful thing - one of my favorite moments was when Leonard explained to Professor Proton why he and Sheldon were friends - which makes the hug in this episode all the more poignant.

Edited by luke
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I already mentioned this in The Proton Transmogrification episode thread, but I really loved the Shelnard hug (as I knew I would, haha). It was heartfelt and just a really nice, quiet moment. I found it especially interesting how Leonard literally stopped talking mid-sentence when Sheldon hugged him. It was just really, really sweet. After seven seasons, a hug between them was long overdue. That's what made it all the more special, but at the same time, I hope we'll get to see them hug again eventually.

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I always say I can see Sheldon and Leonard in their late seventies,happy and greyhaired, playing 3 D chess and talking about their old gals!

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When Leonard first hugged Sheldon and said he was trying to comfort Sheldon, I think Leonard was also looking for comfort from Sheldon.

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My favorite friendship to watch on the show is Leonard and Sheldon.  Sometimes they fight but they really are the best of friends.  This season they're having some good moments.  Let's discuss them.  I'll start.

 

I'm really excited for Sheldon to hug Leonard.  Sheldon acts like he takes Leonard for granted (though we know he doesn't) and it's nice to see the affection he tries to hide be expressed.

I think its clear Sheldon cares very much for his friends. He just will never admit it. I thought the hug moment was sweet too. While he seemed to try to isolate himself in the beginning he is still human and you can see he does still feel something. 

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I think its clear Sheldon cares very much for his friends. He just will never admit it. I thought the hug moment was sweet too. While he seemed to try to isolate himself in the beginning he is still human and you can see he does still feel something. 

 

 

I believe this friendship is grossly over-hyped. For S it is very much a friendship of convenience. Even the 'please don't hurt my friend' had an ulterior motive. For L it was a friendship based on mutual nerdiness and after P moved in he was never going to do anything that meant he didn't live across the hall from her.

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I just had a random thought about when Leonard or Sheldon finally move out (although I think it would be Leonard moving out into Penny's place). I can see them having one more conversation through the wall on the last night in the apartment together. Makes me a little sad..... :(

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As long as the three of them live in 4A/4B, they practically all live together.  It's still sad (the end of an era, as they said on Friends in this situation) but they'll be back and forth between apts just like they do now.

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As long as the three of them live in 4A/4B, they practically all live together. It's still sad (the end of an era, as they said on Friends in this situation) but they'll be back and forth between apts just like they do now.

Not if Leonard gets Howard to up the security. LOL. And Sheldon has learned how to use the deadbolt. I'm keen to see what changes actually happen. Might be nothing for a while... if Sheldon doesn't live with Amy on his return. Hehehe

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Not if Leonard gets Howard to up the security. LOL. And Sheldon has learned how to use the deadbolt. I'm keen to see what changes actually happen. Might be nothing for a while... if Sheldon doesn't live with Amy on his return. Hehehe

 

I'm anxious to see what happens, too.  The finale is on my DVR but I can't bring myself to watch it until there's a resolution.  

 

I was actually thinking Leonard would be over at Sheldon's a lot, playing video games and watching goofy space movies.

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I suspect that the writers may have realized that Sheldon was getting to or there, and this is their way of resting the character. I imagine Jim Parsons was getting a bit uncomfortable with the way he was being written. They don't really need to change the character much, just dial down the mean a lot. A good example was when Leonard approached Sheldon about the potential new living arrangements. The funny line would be for Sheldon to say it would be hard to support the myth of Penny's notional virginity given that Penny and Leonard have been going at it like rabbits. Implying that she slept with a Titanic number of men (basically calling her a notorious slut) is mean and deserves a punch in the face. The distinction is important. Further Sheldon is the only one that has maintained that Penny is a slut. His math is wrong.

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IMO he IS that bad. Why is mean so funny and why is he the most "beloved" character? It isn't even like he is the character that people "love to hate".They just love him period because they find him funny. He doesn't even make me smile anymore, let alone laugh. More often, he makes me wince.

Parts of it are perhaps that people think:

he's pretty,

he can be cute

his bad behaviour gets discounted because it appears to be involuntary so he is held blameless

he was raised in a reactionary culture and expresses things that people from that culture only think to themselves

he is imperfect and can be fixed by the right circumstances

he can be funny

the show needs an antagonist

there is no accounting for preference

people generally don't think deeply about sitcoms

Penny and Leonard are adorable but Sheldon's weirdness makes the show special. But they go just to the brink with him, and sometimes over.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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IMO he IS that bad. Why is mean so funny and why is he the most "beloved" character? It isn't even like he is the character that people "love to hate".They just love him period because they find him funny.  He doesn't even make me smile anymore, let alone laugh. More often, he makes me wince.

Couldn't agree more. Even the over-hyped L and S friendship is one of convenience for S

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Couldn't agree more. Even the over-hyped L and S friendship is one of convenience for S

A completely one-way friendship (hmmm. I wonder which way that is?)

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I suspect that the writers may have realized that Sheldon was getting to or there, and this is their way of resting the character. I imagine Jim Parsons was getting a bit uncomfortable with the way he was being written. They don't really need to change the character much, just dial down the mean a lot. A good example was when Leonard approached Sheldon about the potential new living arrangements. The funny line would be for Sheldon to say it would be hard to support the myth of Penny's notional virginity given that Penny and Leonard have been going at it like rabbits. Implying that she slept with a Titanic number of men (basically calling her a notorious slut) is mean and deserves a punch in the face. The distinction is important. Further Sheldon is the only one that has maintained that Penny is a slut. His math is wrong.

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Agreed. I think we are cherry picking bastard Sheldon moments that really stand out rather than assessing his overall character. I hate his sex related insults towards Penny, his I don't give a shit about you innuendo towards Amy and his you are so inferior crap to Leonard ( although to be honest, if Leonard actually fought back, that wouldn't worry me) and individual moments like the Raj castration line, the itchy sweater revenge and him winning over the table with his "sometimes the baby wins" ( not endearing to me that line)

But his banter with Howard has been consistent and loved the line in Proton ep when He remarked that Howard is the last to suggest we skip the least popular. I am more positive about his friendship references like how he talked to Leonard after the proposal rejection (despite the kick me sign) and his "don't hurt my friend" bedroom conversation with Penny (despite his homeostasis wish) than Lennies have taken a negative bias towards him, his Texas and post Texas conversations with Howard were both funny and friendship building. His reactions to Missy's home birth were hilariously over the top and his interplay with Penny in the Scavenger Hunt were typically dismissive but at the same time she was given the opportunity to show she was capable of solving the puzzles as well.

 I don't think his overall personality is repulsive, just the crass one liners that the writers feed him. 

 

Parts of it are perhaps that people think:

he's pretty,

he can be cute

his bad behaviour gets discounted because it appears to be involuntary so he is held blameless

he was raised in a reactionary culture and expresses things that people from that culture only think to themselves

he is imperfect and can be fixed by the right circumstances

he can be funny

the show needs an antagonist

there is no accounting for preference

people generally don't think deeply about sitcoms

Penny and Leonard are adorable but Sheldon's weirdness makes the show special. But they go just to the brink with him, and sometimes over.

Yep. Do we really want the show to turn into I Love Lucy (hopefully enough forum members get this reference) starring Penny and Leonard, guest starring Howard and Bernadette?

 

Season 8 opens up the chance for a Sheldon reboot, an opportunity for the writers to stop sexually insulting people, allow the main characters to take on regularly ( not just one off episodes) the Kripke/Winkle role of taking Sheldon on and seeing how the new Sheldon can cope with not being the centre of the universe. But I don't want him watered down to never being insulting or inappropriate or too openly honest. That's him.

 

Not sure we can advocate a lessening of the Sheldon character. I doubt Jim would have got the awards playing the role of Leonard, Howard or Raj.

Edited by Itwasdestined

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You know what, when Sheldon broke into Penny's apt in S6x2 (still think it was weird) and asked penny not to hurt his friend. Hmmmm After watching S7 I wonder if he really sincerely meant it or was he just saying it because yes I know. it's a CHANGE. .. and did not want his schedule disrupted or changed. Sorry shelden uses all his friends for his benefit all the time so when he does something genuine you can't help but wonder, what is the motive behind this gesture. not used to that Sheldon that was sometimes a great friend.

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Edited by Tonstar17

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You know what, when Sheldon broke into Penny's apt in S6x2 (still think it was weird) and asked penny not to hurt his friend. Hmmmm After watching S7 I wonder if he really sincerely meant it or was he just saying it because yes I know. it's a CHANGE. .. and did not want his schedule disrupted or changed. Sorry shelden uses all his friends for his benefit all the time so when he does something genuine you can't help but wonder, what is the motive behind this gesture. not used to that shelden that was sometimes a great friends.

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I think that is part of the premise of the show and his character. The battle between his ego/centre of universe personality and this never before felt sense of friendship he develops from the moment he meets Leonard who then brings the other characters into his life.

Every act of friendship or love that Sheldon portrays is followed up with a sense of self importance or superiority - but he keeps having these moments.

Why do I like this Leonard guy when I am so superior to him?

Why do I like this Penny girl when she is so stupid and interested in physical contact?

How can I love this Amy girl when I love myself so much?

The Nimoy napkin Shenny hug, the Proton Shelnard hug, the SIKs, the D&D Shamy conversation are the rare occasions when he doesn't fight this feeling.

Maybe the spiteful, less likable Sheldon in S7 and some of S6 is the result of the 7 years of this inner battle between his ego and his growing friendships that has his ego fighting back against his actual enjoyment of friendship and affection. And Penny and Leonard needed to separate him from everyone so he could have that battle alone.

Or.........

Nah. It's probably just a bunch of successful comedy writers thinking that asshole characters in sitcoms are funny, probably based on the fact increased ratings are telling them that. We really do think too much don't we?

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I think that is part of the premise of the show and his character. The battle between his ego/centre of universe personality and this never before felt sense of friendship he develops from the moment he meets Leonard who then brings the other characters into his life.

Every act of friendship or love that Sheldon portrays is followed up with a sense of self importance or superiority - but he keeps having these moments.

Why do I like this Leonard guy when I am so superior to him?

Why do I like this Penny girl when she is so stupid and interested in physical contact?

How can I love this Amy girl when I love myself so much?

The Nimoy napkin Shenny hug, the Proton Shelnard hug, the SIKs, the D&D Shamy conversation are the rare occasions when he doesn't fight this feeling.

Maybe the spiteful, less likable Sheldon in S7 and some of S6 is the result of the 7 years of this inner battle between his ego and his growing friendships that has his ego fighting back against his actual enjoyment of friendship and affection. And Penny and Leonard needed to separate him from everyone so he could have that battle alone.

Or.........

Nah. It's probably just a bunch of successful comedy writers thinking that asshole characters in sitcoms are funny, probably based on the fact increased ratings are telling them that. We really do think too much don't we?

 

LOL.

 

Sheldon has break through moments when he is a "real boy".

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The moment Sheldon cleaned Pennys apartment without her consent, and in the middle of the night showed me what kinda person Sheldon is. He is completely cluless and unaware that the things he says and does is innapropriate, because he just does not understand. But cleaning Penny's apartment from his perspective, may have been doing Penny a good deed, but its offensive to Penny. Sheldon lives his life one moment at a time, in perfect order. He never perceived he would ever have a gf, that Sheldon flashback is the perfect gauge of who he was. When Leonard came into his life he brought all these other characters into his life, and he has over time learnt to deal with the changes to his life. But with Amy added to the mix, and he suddenly realized how much he had changed, its almost like he wanted to hide in his room and never come back haha. And I think its elementary to say L/P have a lot more in common when babying Sheldon, seeing the fact Penny nor Leonard has anything in common with anyone in their lifes. But like Sheldon said if Penny had to choose she would choose Leonard, as compared to the rest of the guys he is the mackdaddy, the "cool" one. Even in Nerdvanna Annallation, when Penny ripped the guys a new one. Sheldon and Co didn't seem to be bothered, and Leonard apart from his crush raising her voice haha, was really impacted about what she said. Leonard grounds the show, he is the "normal" one of the group, the voice of reason of the show. I always thought when Lenny were babying Sheldon, particularly in S3, like when Lenny had that big fight about her ex musician staying on her couch, and Sheldon ran away haha.

 

They always treated Sheldon like their divorced kid, particularly in the Disneyland scene. That has got everything to do with the type of person Sheldon is emotionally, and zero to do with L/P compatibility. Lenny has never been about what they do have in common, but about what they don't. Their relationship is one of collision, Leonard living in perfect order all his atoms in the right place, then suddenly this hot blonde moves in next door with all her atoms in the right place, and it disrupts his entire universe. Penny girl next door, likes to shop, aspiring actress. Experimental Physicist, likes comic books, Superman movies e.t.c. Really that doesn't scream to you COMPATIBLE. But that's the point its the sublties in their relationship, the scene in Pennys Halloween party in S1. When Penny was like No im not perfect, and Leonard was like "Yes you are". Based on Pennys response, it was the first time a guy was genuine without having an interior motive. The whole point of this show is reversing and deconstructing gender roles. the whole point of Lenny is in the real world, or any other scenario Penny would not look twice at a geeky guy. But as fate let it happened, Penny moved in next door, meet cute, they developed a friendship and the rest is history. That's the endering part of their story watching a lonely nerd get the girl. And now watching these two people over time become equals, to the point its now the guy supporting he girl he loves unconditionaly. Sheldon was always the anti hero, and was someone they just had to deal with on a every day basis. But he now has a edge to his personality, and has lost all empathy for people he previously had, its almost like the more he gets better at emotionally reading people, the more he realizes or thinks how much better he is then the people he chooses to have in his life. Well maybe he needs to realize they choose you not you, I remember Leonard was like in S1 "You know I may have not graduated at 9, but I am just as succesfull".

 

ETA: Yeah this is turning into a Sheldon character assanation thread haha, but I think that's because he is in the way of the Lenny story. But yes back to the original point of this thread.

Edited by 3ku11

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Yes, I can't get over the Penny insults. How can that be expressed in a friendship? Not near funny.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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The idea of the writers to super-size Sheldon for casual viewer appeal is that Sheldon can collapse onto itself into a singularity.  Sheldon's control mania could really destroy his friendship with Lenny, I think he will comeback more of a mellow person and the good friend that he can be to Lenny.  The way Sheldon treats Penny is really getting boring and insulting, it will come to a point where Leonard will  to really have a talk to Sheldon regarding the treatment of his fiancée. Any regular; normal guy would not allow his fiancée to be called a slut, and Leonard is a normal/regular guy.  I could seriously see Lenny using time out techniques for Sheldon when he gets out of line, and they will do it.    I think for season eight, Sheldon's mother will be a huge impact on how he behaves with the gang, she will make sure that her son behaves with respect and good behavior.  I could see Lenny calling up Sheldon's mother in case Sheldon becomes intolerable for everyone.  Amy is the main key for Sheldon's happiness, so Lenny will keep her close to them so that they can use her as a sort of an antidote against Sheldon if there is need for it.

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You know what, when Sheldon broke into Penny's apt in S6x2 (still think it was weird) and asked penny not to hurt his friend. Hmmmm After watching S7 I wonder if he really sincerely meant it or was he just saying it because yes I know. it's a CHANGE. .. and did not want his schedule disrupted or changed. Sorry shelden uses all his friends for his benefit all the time so when he does something genuine you can't help but wonder, what is the motive behind this gesture. not used to that Sheldon that was sometimes a great friend.

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(thought I'd bring my responce over since the msg I was commenting on was move here)

 

I think we were expected to wonder but after the last PP episode it is quite clear. After all PP in that episode is nothing but a manifestation of Sheldon's own subconscious. Sheldon is not playing it up for anyone when he is dreaming. We see the actual struggle that he is having internally. We see him question himself, the way he treats his friends and the amount of time he spends watching star wars. Clearly there is a real person in there but layers of social ineptitude, exaggerated self confidence and a reluctance to change.

 

Overall I'd say that it is the sweater episode that was out of place. Most of Sheldon's issue is really being socially inept. I'm actually surprised he is being judged so harshly here.

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