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[Spoilers]Shamy S8 Thread


rachelshamyfan
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Like Michy said, I don't think Amy would commit to marriage before seeing that she was going to get the physical intimacy she craves.

 

But wasn't the whole point of "I'm always hoping but [...] of course I understand" and her declaration of love to show that she loves him as he is and that if it means never having sex, she is okay with that? Because loving him and being with him is more important than having sex? Sex is a big question mark for Amy - she's never had it - but she is certain of her feelings for Sheldon, and she is certain of his feelings for her. If being happy with him means never having sex, I don't doubt for a second that she'll never pursue anything in that direction. And this idea that Amy isn't committed to him anyway, where does that even come from? It may not be marriage, but they're more committed to each other than Howard and Bernadette, who actualy are married. As koops puts it, Sheldon and Amy aren't "try before you buy" kind of people, they're "be sure before you buy" kind of people. That's why it took them so long to officially become a couple, that's why they didn't declare their obvious love for so long. Their trajectory is completely different to that of Penny and Leonard. Leonard needed to be sure Penny would be ready to commit and that's why he told her she'd have to be the one to propose because he was tired of being rejected. But Sheldon and Amy love each other unconditionally, and that means that Amy is committed to him no matter how much she gets in the physical intimacy department. She is committed to him with or without sex, with or without a marriage contract, and as things currently stand, she's essentially admitted that she's willing to not have sex if it means they can still be together. And if they do marry (as Sheldon hasn't expressed any interest in that at the moment), it won't be because they're finally willing to commit, it'll be because a marriage contract is the ultimate bureaucracy tenant in the love department. If that makes sense.

Edited by Marina
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But wasn't the whole point of "I'm always hoping but [...] of course I understand" and her declaration of love to show that she loves him as he is and that if it means never having sex, she is okay with that? Because loving him and being with him is more important than having sex? Sex is a big question mark for Amy - she's never had it - but she is certain of her feelings for Sheldon, and she is certain of his feelings for her. If being happy with him means never having sex, I don't doubt for a second that she'll never pursue anything in that direction. And this idea that Amy isn't committed to him anyway, where does that even come from? It may not be marriage, but they're more committed to each other than Howard and Bernadette, who actualy are married. As koops puts it, Sheldon and Amy aren't "try before you buy" kind of people, they're "be sure before you buy" kind of people. That's why it took them so long to officially become a couple, that's why they didn't declare their obvious love for so long. Their trajectory is completely different to that of Penny and Leonard. Leonard needed to be sure Penny would be ready to commit and that's why he told her she'd have to be the one to propose because he was tired of being rejected. But Sheldon and Amy love each other unconditionally, and that means that Amy is committed to him no matter how much she gets in the physical intimacy department. She is committed to him with or without sex, with or without a marriage contract, and as things currently stand, she's essentially admitted that she's willing to not have sex if it means they can still be together. And if they do marry (as Sheldon hasn't expressed any interest in that at the moment), it won't be because they're finally willing to commit, it'll be because a marriage contract is the ultimate bureaucracy tenant in the love department. If that makes sense.

Yeah...I think you caught me doing something that I often do, which is projecting myself upon Amy.  :p  And you're right that they're fully committed.  I feel like the relationship agreement is as ironclad if not moreso than a marriage certificate anyway. 

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But wasn't the whole point of "I'm always hoping but [...] of course I understand" and her declaration of love to show that she loves him as he is and that if it means never having sex, she is okay with that? Because loving him and being with him is more important than having sex? Sex is a big question mark for Amy - she's never had it - but she is certain of her feelings for Sheldon, and she is certain of his feelings for her. If being happy with him means never having sex, I don't doubt for a second that she'll never pursue anything in that direction. And this idea that Amy isn't committed to him anyway, where does that even come from? It may not be marriage, but they're more committed to each other than Howard and Bernadette, who actualy are married. As koops puts it, Sheldon and Amy aren't "try before you buy" kind of people, they're "be sure before you buy" kind of people. That's why it took them so long to officially become a couple, that's why they didn't declare their obvious love for so long. Their trajectory is completely different to that of Penny and Leonard. Leonard needed to be sure Penny would be ready to commit and that's why he told her she'd have to be the one to propose because he was tired of being rejected. But Sheldon and Amy love each other unconditionally, and that means that Amy is committed to him no matter how much she gets in the physical intimacy department. She is committed to him with or without sex, with or without a marriage contract, and as things currently stand, she's essentially admitted that she's willing to not have sex if it means they can still be together. And if they do marry (as Sheldon hasn't expressed any interest in that at the moment), it won't be because they're finally willing to commit, it'll be because a marriage contract is the ultimate bureaucracy tenant in the love department. If that makes sense.

So spot on Marina! Her love declaration was to say "understand because I love you." She knows him better than anyone. She knew what she was getting into worth him. If she was/is waiting on sex to fully commit to Sheldon she is being unfair to the both of them. I would hate if their story is told this way and it would make me think so much less of Amy.

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I was watching the fun with flags parts from the last episode and I realized there's a definite physical closeness between Sheldon and Amy comparing to last seasons. Their hands and arms are brushing casually, I don't think they were like that before.

Yes!!!! If you look closely in the beach scene, it's the first time we've seen so much "skin to skin" contact between them!

Naked arm coitus.......(I need help).

Edited by heres2U
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I so want a moment where he catches her dressing or in the shower or something....yea, he gave her bath back in fish guts, but that was two years ago and he wasn't in love & having urges back then....I think the love/urges part for him really didn't start until D&D.......

 

I still think in my head how that would happen, but I would love it!!!

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Part of me still believes that when he applied vaporub to her chest, bathed her, and spanked her, all of that stuff did affect him but he suppressed the feelings by using Kolinahr.

I believe he's using this memories every time he comes home from his Tijuana sex show date night kiss  ;)  :icon_cheesygrin: 

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Part of me still believes that when he applied vaporub to her chest, bathed her, and spanked her, all of that stuff did affect him but he suppressed the feelings by using Kolinahr.

I believe he had been affected even before that.... which it why I thought of spanking that ass, of all things, in the first place. LOL!

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I'm wondering if Shamy kisses are still the closed mouth chaste kisses we've seen on screen? My guess is they are because I would think tptb would want their first really passionate kiss and their reaction to it to play out on screen because, imo, that scene would be gold!

I know some think that Shamy will be put on the back burner for the second half of the season but I'm not so sure.I think that the physical aspect of their relationship may be progressed and them kissing passionately and losing a little 'control' may be a good place to start.

After what's happened so far this season I'm not sure the physical side of their relationship can be ignored and dragged out much longer.

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But wasn't the whole point of "I'm always hoping but [...] of course I understand" and her declaration of love to show that she loves him as he is and that if it means never having sex, she is okay with that? Because loving him and being with him is more important than having sex? Sex is a big question mark for Amy - she's never had it - but she is certain of her feelings for Sheldon, and she is certain of his feelings for her. If being happy with him means never having sex, I don't doubt for a second that she'll never pursue anything in that direction. And this idea that Amy isn't committed to him anyway, where does that even come from? It may not be marriage, but they're more committed to each other than Howard and Bernadette, who actualy are married. As koops puts it, Sheldon and Amy aren't "try before you buy" kind of people, they're "be sure before you buy" kind of people. That's why it took them so long to officially become a couple, that's why they didn't declare their obvious love for so long. Their trajectory is completely different to that of Penny and Leonard. Leonard needed to be sure Penny would be ready to commit and that's why he told her she'd have to be the one to propose because he was tired of being rejected. But Sheldon and Amy love each other unconditionally, and that means that Amy is committed to him no matter how much she gets in the physical intimacy department. She is committed to him with or without sex, with or without a marriage contract, and as things currently stand, she's essentially admitted that she's willing to not have sex if it means they can still be together. And if they do marry (as Sheldon hasn't expressed any interest in that at the moment), it won't be because they're finally willing to commit, it'll be because a marriage contract is the ultimate bureaucracy tenant in the love department. If that makes sense.

I totally agree with this.

If Amy's commitment to the relationship and her love for Sheldon were dependent upon whether or not he would be capable of or willing to have sex with her, then she would not have been willing to let him off the hook about it just as she's ready to declare her love for him.

Otherwise it would have been some variation of "If you love me, you'll have sex with me" or "I'd like to say I love you, but it will depend on if you're willing to have sex with me."

Both of those ideas sound horrible to me and not like love.

I don't think that you need to try sex like you'd test drive a car. I know that a lot of people think you do, but I think that's simply a modern excuse for sex before marriage. I mean, it's not as if one needs to figure out if you're the same species--the parts are designed to go together.

At any rate, she does love him enough that she doesn't seem to want to push him in that department. She didn't even want him to feel obligated to return the ILY. I do think that she can take assurance from the fact that as reluctant as he was about physical interactions when they first became a couple, he has obviously made progress.

It will always be in his nature, I believe, to be more modest and prudish about things like PDA, hence the "Tijuana Sex show" comment, and that has been and will be a factor in when he's ready to cross that final line, but I don't think the writers are intending to make him ultimately unwilling. And I think they've made it that Amy loves him no matter what.

Yes, she's always hoping that it will happen, but no, she's not going to hold it over his head as an ultimatum--"Have sex with me or I won't marry you."

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I'm wondering if Shamy kisses are still the closed mouth chaste kisses we've seen on screen? My guess is they are because I would think tptb would want their first really passionate kiss and their reaction to it to play out on screen because, imo, that scene would be gold!

I know some think that Shamy will be put on the back burner for the second half of the season but I'm not so sure.I think that the physical aspect of their relationship may be progressed and them kissing passionately and losing a little 'control' may be a good place to start.

After what's happened so far this season I'm not sure the physical side of their relationship can be ignored and dragged out much longer.

My guess is that they're probably not as chaste as we've seen. Remember the comment at the cal tech cafeteria when Leonard confirmed Sheldon's assessment that their kisses weren't romantic and now when they went to the mall, their kiss under the mistletoe (to Sheldon) was like a "Tijuana sex show." TPTB are going to have to claim some steps in their physical relationship is done off screen because they simply don't have enough time to show us every single step for Shamy.

I think the simple fact that they've been doing a lot of kissing off screen, indicates they've gotten better at it (Amy probably responds now) and they're a little more "steamyer"

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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It was sweet when Amy said that although she was always hoping for more, she would still love him and be with him, which is not to say that she should never have the physical intimacy she needs and wants. It's more that she would never use sex as a demand, or condition, of her love. Also, she knows her man, and I think she knows that he is coming to accept that he needs and wants it too.

 

I think maybe that's her 'journey' in the show. Through the friendships and relationship she forms over the course of the show, I think Amy is learning how to be a 'girlfriend' to both Sheldon and the other girls, as the nearly 33 year old woman she is, and will eventually be able to let go of the lonely 16 year old whose attitudes to love and friendship (through no fault of her own) needed work, it's fair to say, when we first met her.

Initially, she had tried to get over her lonely childhood and teenage years by shutting herself off emotionally/sexually, and to a certain extent, put others down before they could do it to her, as she did when she first met the others. Then, as she started to let her guard down, so many repressed feelings came out, and she didn't know how to express them in a 'normal', adult way. I'm thinking mainly her adoration of Penny phase, which some see as bi-curiosity, but I've never thought that. For one, the only one she wants is and always will be Sheldon, and I think that adoration was very much something teen/pre-teen girls do when they feel insecure. They latch on to someone who represents everything they see as 'perfect' and want to be just like them.

Of course, that, and her newly discovered hormones and emotions pushed her to talk big about sex (again, like a teenager) and push her relationship with Sheldon faster than he was comfortable with on occasion. It's only now, I think, that she is able to enjoy their relationship without comparing it to the other girls', and of course, knows she is loved. That probably takes a lot of her self induced pressure off. She's not there yet, and will still come out with her slightly inappropriate comments and act like a 16 year old sometimes (and we love her for it!) but I think she must be much happier than she was stepping into that coffee shop four years ago.

Edited by Bella Duveen
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I just had a thought...can you imagine how lengthy the relationship agreement will become once they move in together and get married?  It'll be the length of the relationship agreement (which would by then include sex, in-laws, and sharing finances, for example) + the roommate agreement.  It'll be as thick as that book Sheldon was using to look up the reaction rates before he thought he discovered a new element.

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While I agree that yes, Amy said she understands Sheldon's reluctance and has shown that she is willing to be patient for as long as it takes him, I think we have to acknowledge the fact that this is something that is important to her, and it shouldn't be marginalized. Sex is not just some cheap and dirty thing. Especially for someone like Amy. She craves physical intimacy because she's been neglected her whole life, and to feel that kind of closeness is something that she truly wants. And that's okay. She has every right to want that. And I think she will want to know that it's something that will be fulfilled for her in their relationship before she goes jumping into a marriage. She is happy to be with Sheldon and she has been happy for several years without sex because of the love she has for him, but when you start talking about marriage, that's a completely different set of circumstances. You're talking about the commitment to spend your life with someone.

 

It's not unreasonable for her to want to know what her future holds before committing to marriage, and that's the point that I'm trying to make. I would not want to see Amy sacrifice something that is important to her for someone else. There's a certain amount of sacrifice that you can make in relationships so long as it's short-term. I don't think it's okay to say, "Well Sheldon doesn't want it, so Amy's just gonna have to go the rest of her life without every having it because she loves him." It's not fair. And I believe that it's something they will both want, when they're both ready for it. But all I'm saying is that I feel like that sort of hurdle needs to be overcome before we can start talking about marriage. 

 

Now, if Sheldon tells her that it's something he wants and is ready for but he wants to be married first, then fine. I just think that it's a huge wedge issue between them and until it's resolved, either consummated or just discussed and agreed upon mutually, then I can't imagine them entertaining the idea of marriage just yet. That seems like a much bigger commitment and they have to build to it.

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I have been so busy that I haven’t really had time to catch up with the forum lately (even to spazz about how damn adorable Shamy were in the latest flag-fun-filled episode - OMC HOW ADORABLE! - or the Xmas spoilers - OMC HOW EVEN MORE ADORABLE, ARE THEY FOR REAL??), so apologies if I just jump in the middle of this convo and maybe repeat what’s been said already.

 

While I don’t disagree that Amy obviously wants physical intimacy, a relationship isn’t so much about compromises as it is about priorities. Just because Amy has made it clear she hopes to progress physically with Sheldon, it doesn’t mean it is a priority for her or something that could be a make-or-break in their relationship. There is no evidence on screen that she thinks this at all. I don’t think that if Sheldon, due to whatever hung ups he might have about sex (which could even be some pretty deep seated psychological issues, to be honest, we really don’t have a concrete answer for that), will never be able to consummate his relationship, and Amy decides to stick by him anyway, it necessarily means that she’s given up her happiness or made some huge sacrifice rather than an indication that, maybe, it simply wasn’t a big priority to her over other things. Especially over the fact that it seem clear as day now that Sheldon truly loves her in any way he can. 

 

Secondly, I don’t understand this talk of marriage right now. Sheldon has never once given any indication that he wants to marry. That might come, who knows, but, so far, I don’t really expect him to propose any time soon. So I don’t really understand what kind of marital commitment he’s asking of Amy that she needs to think long and hard about. If anything, the only two lines about a Shamy marriage ever uttered came from Amy, and that was way before any major progress between them that might indicate impending coitus. So it sounds like on-screen Amy is more than eager to marry him, coitus or no coitus. And even Amy hasn’t really talked marriage much at all on the show. She had those two lines about it, over two years ago, but it’s obviously not something she’s particularly focused on, let alone something that would be a deal breaker of sorts. Again, not saying that Shamy will never marry, it just doesn’t seem something either of them really thinks about much, if at all.

 

And, regardless, I think it’s been pretty clear for ages now that Amy has *already* committed, in her head, to spending the rest of her life with him. In all the time they’ve been together, she has never once mentioned that she thought about getting out of the relationship, quite the contrary. What I struggle to wrap my mind around is that marriage is the only form of life-long commitment a person can make and that Sheldon and Amy aren’t already in the circumstances of being committed to each other pretty much for life. I think saying that marriage is a whole other set of circumstances pretty much cheapens an awful lot of relationships, even in real life: are Jim and Todd less committed than Kaley and her husband just because they’re not married, despite having being together over a decade and not a year? 

 

I don’t know, I think if any marriage decision is to come for these two in the future, I don’t think sex will be a point of contention that’s going to sway anybody’s decision. And, in any case, I already see them committed for life: if Amy really craved the constructs and the conventions more than she craves Sheldon, she would have left him a long time ago for someone that could give her everything right away. And if she ever broke up with him, I don’t think he would ever date again, not after how much he’s grown to love her. She’s it for him, and cannot be replaced.

Edited by koops
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I agree that Amy could potentially be happy with or without it. I'm just saying it's an issue they need to discuss. I don't want Amy's desires or needs to be marginalized because omg she just loves Sheldon so much, she'll give up anything to be with him! I think their relationship means far more than that, and if they're gonna go talking about marriage (which is not something hinted on the show, just something we as fans were discussing), then they need to have an honest conversation about where they are, what their needs and comforts are, and where their relationship is going. My point being that they're no where near a marriage discussion until they figure this crap out. 

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