Jump to content

[Spoilers]Shamy S8 Thread


rachelshamyfan
 Share

Recommended Posts

I agree that Amy could potentially be happy with or without it. I'm just saying it's an issue they need to discuss. I don't want Amy's desires or needs to be marginalized because omg she just loves Sheldon so much, she'll give up anything to be with him! I think their relationship means far more than that, and if they're gonna go talking about marriage (which is not something hinted on the show, just something we as fans were discussing), then they need to have an honest conversation about where they are, what their needs and comforts are, and where their relationship is going. My point being that they're no where near a marriage discussion until they figure this crap out. 

 

But you don't think they are already figuring all that out? Obviously Sheldon is not a liar and won't just say "Yes, Amy, I will sleep with you in 462 days, 2 hours and 3 minutes from now", but he's always been honest with her about where he's at in terms of progress with the idea of intimacy in his head. They've had that talk more than once, the latest one in Prom. Also, this season, we have seen them take tests that predict the stability of their relationship, and there's been hints of discussions off-screen about his departure that resulted in him making it up to her with extra dates. Which means that wasn't just swept under the rug. Not to mention that they obviously sit down and discuss every minutia of their relationship via the RA all the time (love keeping that bureaucracy alive!). I think for one, we have already seen these candid discussions on screen more than once (6x23, 7x05, Prom, etc), and, second, it's not a discussion that happens once and then everything is resolved and forgotten and where promises (which one can't keep) are made just to put fears and uncertainties to rest. Actually, those promises are things that usually destroy relationships because there's no way to know for sure whether they can be kept.  

 

Communication has always been their strong suit (Table notwithstanding) and we have seen it depicted on screen more than once. I just don't think the convo where they sit down and Sheldon signs on the dotted line that he will have sex with her and Amy is appeased enough to go "Phew, now we can discuss the rest of our lives" is going to happen. It's more likely that we're going to see a scene where Amy says it doesn't really matter because all the other things he brings to this relationship are more important to her. Especially now. Oh wait, that already happened in Prom :p Frankly, if by "marriage talk" we mean being ready to commit to each other for the right reasons, (and now I'm going to brace for all the Lenny-brigade to march in here and set me straight, but I'm going to risk it - I AM GOING DOWN WITH THIS SHIP!), I think, as of now, they're closer to that than Lenny are, tbh. We've seen Lenny discuss their fears with marriage and solve it with a line that's pretty much "Love will conquer it all", whereas Sheldon has always been logical and pragmatic in his assessments, which, imo, is a much more comforting and realistic promise than any romantic speech could be. As much as we like to think of relationship as all about passion and emotions, they're not good predictors of relationship health or longevity, which is another reason why I'm a big fan of the Shamy's "taking the romance out of relationships" approach courtesy of Berscheid, Snyder and Omoto ;) 

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I agree that yes, Amy said she understands Sheldon's reluctance and has shown that she is willing to be patient for as long as it takes him, I think we have to acknowledge the fact that this is something that is important to her, and it shouldn't be marginalized. Sex is not just some cheap and dirty thing. Especially for someone like Amy. She craves physical intimacy because she's been neglected her whole life, and to feel that kind of closeness is something that she truly wants. And that's okay. She has every right to want that. And I think she will want to know that it's something that will be fulfilled for her in their relationship before she goes jumping into a marriage. She is happy to be with Sheldon and she has been happy for several years without sex because of the love she has for him, but when you start talking about marriage, that's a completely different set of circumstances. You're talking about the commitment to spend your life with someone.

 

It's not unreasonable for her to want to know what her future holds before committing to marriage, and that's the point that I'm trying to make. I would not want to see Amy sacrifice something that is important to her for someone else. There's a certain amount of sacrifice that you can make in relationships so long as it's short-term. I don't think it's okay to say, "Well Sheldon doesn't want it, so Amy's just gonna have to go the rest of her life without every having it because she loves him." It's not fair. And I believe that it's something they will both want, when they're both ready for it. But all I'm saying is that I feel like that sort of hurdle needs to be overcome before we can start talking about marriage. 

 

Now, if Sheldon tells her that it's something he wants and is ready for but he wants to be married first, then fine. I just think that it's a huge wedge issue between them and until it's resolved, either consummated or just discussed and agreed upon mutually, then I can't imagine them entertaining the idea of marriage just yet. That seems like a much bigger commitment and they have to build to it.

 

THIS. Just all of it.

 

I am getting a sense some don't understand how real-life relationships work.

 

For Amy's sake, I hope that Sheldon would make every effort to give her what she wants, just like she would do for him. Forfeiting something that she's made adamantly clear she wants with Sheldon for the sake of continuing their relationship is unhealthy and that relationship will eventually fail. It's about compromise, something I think Sheldon is learning. Slowly, but he's learning.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would never want Sheldon to have sex as an obligation of just making AFF happy. It's very, very un-romantic. And most of all, can you imagine how Amy would feel? She would feel that distance between them in bed and it would break her heart :(

Edited by AndyRenee
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But you don't think they are already figuring all that out? Obviously Sheldon is not a liar and won't just say "Yes, Amy, I will sleep with you in 462 days, 2 hours and 3 minutes from now", but he's always been honest with her about where he's at in terms of progress with the idea of intimacy in his head. They've had that talk more than once, the latest one in Prom. Also, this season, we have seen them take tests that predict the stability of their relationship, and there's been hints of discussions off-screen about his departure that resulted in him making it up to her with extra dates. Which means that wasn't just swept under the rug. Not to mention that they obviously sit down and discuss every minutia of their relationship via the RA all the time (love keeping that bureaucracy alive!). I think for one, we have already seen these candid discussions on screen more than once (6x23, 7x05, Prom, etc), and, second, it's not a discussion that happens once and then everything is resolved and forgotten and where promises (which one can't keep) are made just to put fears and uncertainties to rest. Actually, those promises are things that usually destroy relationships because there's no way to know for sure whether they can be kept.  

 

Communication has always been their strong suit (Table notwithstanding) and we have seen it depicted on screen more than once. I just don't think the convo where they sit down and Sheldon signs on the dotted line that he will have sex with her and Amy is appeased enough to go "Phew, now we can discuss the rest of our lives" is going to happen. It's more likely that we're going to see a scene where Amy says it doesn't really matter because all the other things he brings to this relationship are more important to her. Especially now. Oh wait, that already happened in Prom :p Frankly, if by "marriage talk" we mean being ready to commit to each other for the right reasons, (and now I'm going to brace for all the Lenny-brigade to march in here and set me straight, but I'm going to risk it - I AM GOING DOWN WITH THIS SHIP!), I think, as of now, they're closer to that than Lenny are, tbh. We've seen Lenny discuss their fears with marriage and solve it with a line that's pretty much "Love will conquer it all", whereas Sheldon has always been logical and pragmatic in his assessments, which, imo, is a much more comforting and realistic promise than any romantic speech could be. As much as we like to think of relationship as all about passion and emotions, they're not good predictors of relationship health or longevity, which is another reason why I'm a big fan of the Shamy's "taking the romance out of relationships" approach courtesy of Berscheid, Snyder and Omoto ;)

 

When did I say I don't think they're figuring that out? Someone brought up marriage and my point was that they have a lot of things to finish figuring out before we're going to entertain the idea of marriage. My point is that they're not going to just up and marry while there's still this huge question hanging over their relationship.

 

 

Amy not having sex because Sheldon doesn't want to is unhealthy, but Sheldon forcing himself to have sex just to please her isn't? Well okay then.

 

Who the crap ever said Sheldon needs to force himself to have sex to please her? You have some serious reading comprehension issues if that's what you got out of what I said. My point was that if they're at different places with it, then they shouldn't be getting married. But we won't know until they have a discussion and figure it out. Please don't put words in my mouth, kthx.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would never want Sheldon to have sex as an obligation of just making AFF happy. It's very, very un-romantic. And most of all, can you imagine how Amy would feel? She would feel that distance between them in bed and it would break her heart :(

Who said that? If they couldn't compromise, I would say they should end their relationship because it's eventually going to fail either way.

Whether it's Sheldon that does something he doesn't want to in order to make her happy or Amy never gets something that is clearly important; it's not going to work.

I personally think they both will end up agreeing mutually it is what they want.

Edited by denajeanx
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who the crap ever said Sheldon needs to force himself to have sex to please her? You have some serious reading comprehension issues if that's what you got out of what I said. My point was that if they're at different places with it, then they shouldn't be getting married. But we won't know until they have a discussion and figure it out. Please don't put words in my mouth, kthx.

 

"Forfeiting something that she's made adamantly clear she wants with Sheldon for the sake of continuing their relationship is unhealthy and that relationship will eventually fail." never said I was replying to you. Please don't put words in my mouth, kthx.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amy not having sex because Sheldon doesn't want to is unhealthy, but Sheldon forcing himself to have sex just to please her isn't? Well okay then.

I think you have trouble comprehending the English language. That is not what I said. Read and try really hard to understand what I wrote before you comment. I know, that's hard.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Forfeiting something that she's made adamantly clear she wants with Sheldon for the sake of continuing their relationship is unhealthy and that relationship will eventually fail." never said I was replying to you. Please don't put words in my mouth, kthx.

 

Whether you were replying to me or not, no one ever said Sheldon needs to force himself to have sex with her. You're just making up reasons to attack people.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Forget it. I was trying to make a point about whether or not marriage can be discussed when two parties are at different places on big issues, but I'm not interested in the mud-slinging from people who disagree. I'm happy to have a debate but not if it's going to turn irrationally personal.

So here, have a photo of the cookies Amy made for Sheldon for Christmas.

c4ad5e8482e9c8ec47a645fb8e0e34cc.jpg

...and discuss.

 

OMG WHERE DID YOU FIND THIS???

 

You know I love you right?

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When did I say I don't think they're figuring that out? Someone brought up marriage and my point was that they have a lot of things to finish figuring out before we're going to entertain the idea of marriage. My point is that they're not going to just up and marry while there's still this huge question hanging over their relationship.

 

 

Well, you said that 

 

I'm just saying it's an issue they need to discuss. ...they need to have an honest conversation about where they are, what their needs and comforts are, and where their relationship is going. My point being that they're no where near a marriage discussion until they figure this crap out. 

 

And to me it read like you didn't think that had happened already, but it has: they have had several discussions about where they're at, what their needs and comforts are and the only thing we have yet to see on screen, really, is some mention of time ala "I'm going to spend the rest of my life with him/her". But, given that something like Sheldon's obvious issues with sex isn't something that can be solved by a deadline, I don't really see it as a deal-breaker for a potential marriage/commitment, given that, especially right now, they are scoring high in every other aspect of their relationship: they're happy, they have lots in common, they are (openly) in love and make each other very happy. I don't think it would take much for me, given how things are going right now, to buy a marriage proposal. Maybe I would just need some more episodes like this season's under the belt just for consistency and continuity's sake, after the way last season ended. But we can agree to disagree on that, that's fine.

 

As far as Sheldon giving or not giving Amy sex. I get the impression, sometimes that Sheldon "making an effort" to give her what she craves essentially translates to "giving her what she wants". I think that, despite all his shortcomings when it comes to what comes out of his mouth, nobody can deny he IS making one hell of an effort for her on the physical side of things. Obviously, I truly believe that he enjoys it too, especially the kissing, and that the kissing was what has been triggering his open-mindedness about sex as of lately. But Sheldon is not not giving sex to Amy because he's being stubborn or ridiculous. He obviously has his own very valid reasons that "of course she understands". He is making the effort, we see it, but, more importantly, Amy sees it. That's why she understands. If we all agree that it's the effort that matters, at the end of the day, and that Amy doesn't just want sex for the sake of sex (or she would have dumped him a long time ago), and that they love each other deeply, then I don't think that if sex never entered the equation the relationship will be doomed to failure or not marriage-worthy, because there are 394817 other different things that might be more important to them than that. Or they wouldn't have gone 30 years on their own before giving this whole relationship thing a go, with each other.

Edited by koops
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, you said that 

 

 

And to me it read like you didn't think that had happened already, but it has: they have had several discussions about where they're at, what their needs and comforts are and the only thing we have yet to see on screen, really, is some mention of time ala "I'm going to spend the rest of my life with him/her". But, given that something like Sheldon's obvious issues with sex isn't something that can be solved by a deadline, I don't really see it as a deal-breaker for a potential marriage/commitment, given that, especially right now, they are scoring high in every other aspect of their relationship: they're happy, they have lots in common, they are (openly) in love and make each other very happy. I don't think it would take much for me, given how things are going right now, to buy a marriage proposal. Maybe I would just need some more episodes like this season's under the belt just for consistency and continuity's sake, after the way last season ended. But we can agree to disagree on that, that's fine.

 

As far as Sheldon giving or not giving Amy sex. He is not not giving sex to Amy because he's being stubborn or ridiculous. He obviously has his own very valid reasons that "of course she understands". But I get the impression, sometimes that Sheldon "making an effort" to give her what she craves essentially translates to "giving her what she wants". I think that, despite all his shortcomings when it comes to what comes out of his mouth, nobody can deny he IS making one hell of an effort for her on the physical side of things. Obviously, I truly believe that he enjoys it too, especially the kissing, and that the kissing was what has been triggering his open-mindedness about sex as of lately. But Sheldon is not not giving sex to Amy because he's being stubborn or ridiculous. He obviously has his own very valid reasons that "of course she understands". He is making the effort, we see it, but, more importantly, Amy sees it. That's why she understands. If we all agree that it's the effort that matters, at the end of the day, and that Amy doesn't just want sex for the sake of sex (or she would have dumped him a long time ago), and that they love each other deeply, then I don't think that if sex never entered the equation the relationship will be doomed to failure or not marriage-worthy, because there are 394817 other different things that might be more important to them than that. Or they wouldn't have gone 30 years on their own before giving this whole relationship thing a go, with each other.

 

They have had discussion, yes, but only to the point that they've figured out that he's not ready yet and he hasn't ruled it out. But I don't think that discussion is over by a long shot, and I'm just saying that it needs to be resolved before we're going to entertain the idea of marriage, that's all. I know they're getting there, and I know it's coming. But that's my point - that's going to be resolved before we see a ring on her finger. I just don't see marriage coming up now while the sex thing is still an ongoing discussion.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whether you were replying to me or not, no one ever said Sheldon needs to force himself to have sex with her. You're just making up reasons to attack people.

 

I'm not attacking anyone here. I'm just saying that this is the impression this conversation is giving me. If it's not what you're saying then fine I apologize. Y'all seem quick to forget that some of us around here are ESLs and that yeah there are things that do get lost in translation. I don't go around looking for reasons to "attack people." 

Yes, Shamy sex is a sore spot for me, but it's just fucking hard sometimes being in this fandom and people being all over "Sheldon needs to make an effort". Look, Amy's my fav too, and I want her to have everything in the world and then some more because she deserves it. But Sheldon also deserves that, Sheldon also deserves to be understood. I don't know if Sheldon's an ace, or a demi, or a late bloomer, but he could very well be an ace and it's not fair to say that him not putting up is just him not making an effort. And that's not me saying that's what you personally were saying in that post, btw, it's just something I've seen thrown around a lot, whether it is by fellow shippers or by Lennies who think no sex =/= no real relationship, and yeah it's always at the back of my mind when this topic comes up because not a lot of people understand where we are coming from.

Except that Amy does understand and she's willing to take him just as he is, which is where the conversation should be left at tbh. Regardless of our own personal feelings on the matter, Amy is okay with taking Sheldon just as he is. That is canon. If she wasn't okay with that then I'd be the first to encourage her to leave him (God knows I was rooting for that over the summer. Boy was I pissed back then. :p), but she is happy just as things are. Sure, maybe she'd be even happier if she could also jump him, but as things currently stand, Sheldon is enough with or without the sex.

 

I'm also sending you a PM because there are some things to be said that do not have their place on a public space.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They have had discussion, yes, but only to the point that they've figured out that he's not ready yet and he hasn't ruled it out. But I don't think that discussion is over by a long shot, and I'm just saying that it needs to be resolved before we're going to entertain the idea of marriage, that's all. I know they're getting there, and I know it's coming. But that's my point - that's going to be resolved before we see a ring on her finger. I just don't see marriage coming up now while the sex thing is still an ongoing discussion.

 

But... I'm struggling here. What is the resolution to their discussion then? A yes or no answer? It just seems to me like you're implying Amy will only marry him if he commits to giving her sex and if not she will turn him down? Despite him being perfect in her eyes under any other aspect? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not attacking anyone here. I'm just saying that this is the impression this conversation is giving me. If it's not what you're saying then fine I apologize. Y'all seem quick to forget that some of us around here are ESLs and that yeah there are things that do get lost in translation. I don't go around looking for reasons to "attack people." 

Yes, Shamy sex is a sore spot for me, but it's just fucking hard sometimes being in this fandom and people being all over "Sheldon needs to make an effort". Look, Amy's my fav too, and I want her to have everything in the world and then some more because she deserves it. But Sheldon also deserves that, Sheldon also deserves to be understood. I don't know if Sheldon's an ace, or a demi, or a late bloomer, but he could very well be an ace and it's not fair to say that him not putting up is just him not making an effort. And that's not me saying that's what you personally were saying in that post, btw, it's just something I've seen thrown around a lot, whether it is by fellow shippers or by Lennies who think no sex =/= no real relationship, and yeah it's always at the back of my mind when this topic comes up because not a lot of people understand where we are coming from.

Except that Amy does understand and she's willing to take him just as he is, which is where the conversation should be left at tbh. Regardless of our own personal feelings on the matter, Amy is okay with taking Sheldon just as he is. That is canon. If she wasn't okay with that then I'd be the first to encourage her to leave him (God knows I was rooting for that over the summer. Boy was I pissed back then. :p), but she is happy just as things are. Sure, maybe she'd be even happier if she could also jump him, but as things currently stand, Sheldon is enough with or without the sex.

 

I'm also sending you a PM because there are some things to be said that do not have their place on a public space.

 

But there's a difference between "lost in translation" and completely fabricating things that no one has said in this discussion. If you've gotten those attitudes or comments in the past, there's no reason to be bringing them up now against people who were not saying anything of the kind. We were just having a discussion about whether or not marriage is likely to happen while the sex thing is unresolved. No one said he has to make an effort or put out or anything else. At least I wasn't, and I didn't see anyone else saying anything like that in this discussion. We're just talking about what they want in the relationship and whether or not that needs to be resolved before we're going to talk about marriage, since a lot of people seem to be marriage-heavy on Shamy this season.

 

 

 

 

But... I'm struggling here. What is the resolution to their discussion then? A yes or no answer? It just seems to me like you're implying Amy will only marry him if he commits to giving her sex and if not she will turn him down? Despite him being perfect in her eyes under any other aspect? 

 
No, I'm saying that I don't see Amy agreeing to marry him when they're still working their way through issues in their relationship. They have a lot to figure out and learn about each other before they're going to agree to spend their lives together. Lenny had their similar hurdles (Leonard's confidence, Penny's issues with commitment) and those were all ongoing and had to be dealt with before they were talking about marriage. All I was saying was that it's too soon in Shamy's relationship because they're still taking it slow and they're still working things out. And because I think it's pretty clear by now that Sheldon will be ready for it eventually, but I don't see him being ready for marriage before that happens. 
Edited by MichyGeary
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

But there's a difference between "lost in translation" and completely fabricating things that no one has said in this discussion. If you've gotten those attitudes or comments in the past, there's no reason to be bringing them up now against people who were not saying anything of the kind. We were just having a discussion about whether or not marriage is likely to happen while the sex thing is unresolved. No one said he has to make an effort or put out or anything else. At least I wasn't, and I didn't see anyone else saying anything like that in this discussion. We're just talking about what they want in the relationship and whether or not that needs to be resolved before we're going to talk about marriage, since a lot of people seem to be marriage-heavy on Shamy this season.

 

I just want to point out that the conversation was perfectly polite and no one was putting words in anyone's mouth until your friend came like "some people clearly have no idea what real life relationships are like." 

Edited by Marina

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just want to point out that the conversation was perfectly polite and no one was putting words in anyone's mouth until your friend came like "some people clearly have no idea what real life relationships are like."

That wasn't directed towards anyone specifically. You chose to make a snarky reply. I was pointing out that a relationship will fail eventually, if big issues are not addressed and agreed to by both people in the relationship.

Please feel free to drop the passive aggression and address me directly.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.