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[Spoilers]Shamy S8 Thread

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Here is me remembering a voice memo of you containing a phrase like "if I am going home on wednesday it will be in a casket" - ah, how right you were Kazzie :D

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Right. So.

 

koops, Marina, nickelette, as ever I am in your debt for expressing my thoughts better than I can.

 

This concludes this season's habit (for me) of introducing HUGE Shamy developments that I love in and of themselves, but don't believe that the writers have earned in context. The 'I Love You' declaration (yes, I'm continuing to be a pain about that)- beautifully done, but I had a sense of 'yes, but- where did that come from?' The ring? Look, I devoutly believe that Sheldon and Amy are headed towards delightfully weird love and cohabitation, but- hang on, hang on, you JUST had a blanket fort sleepover. I do not for an instant buy that you would plan a move of this magnitude without making Leonard and Penny's lives a living misery about every aspect of the decision.

 

And Amy's freakout. Now, I have been saying for some time that I think it's Amy's 'turn' to have a freakout. But that would have been at the beginning of this season, as koops suggested. I may even buy that she would freak out while she and Sheldon were going at it. Indeed, that would be a very satisfactory capper to her stiffness during their previous kisses. But flying off the handle because Sheldon asks an innocent question INVOLVING HER IN HIS BELOVED POP-CULTURAL PURSUITS?!? COME ON NOW AND I MEAN IT. (sorry for the all-caps). You have put up with ten times worse, girl. What the actual hell.

 

There's another thing here, which is that the show has a very frustrating habit of shitting on Amy when Sheldon's being unreasonable, and taking Amy's side when she's being unreasonable. I'll explain. You know that time that Sheldon fought with Will Wheaton for Amy? Now, as cute as that sequence was, I believe that Amy was being a massive ball-ache and was in the wrong there. The first kiss? As lovely as it was (and it was, it was), I was on Sheldon's side. Amy was indeed trying to trick him by using his interests. And now? Getting angry with Sheldon because she thinks he's not present in the moment, when he is consulting her about pop-cultural activities that she knows are dear to him? Yes, Team Sheldon. Absolutely Team Sheldon.

 

And finally, the making out- forgive me, but as delightful as it sounds, I would personally have preferred to see the- you know- yellow brick road to making out. We've sat around for season after season suffering through Amy's frustration and Sheldon's cluelessness. We have TWO chaste kisses, a season with very little physical contact between them (apart from the hug, which was wonderful) and now suddenly they're going at it like ferrets in heat?!? I completely buy that this is a reasonable escalation of their relationship, but would it have killed the writers to show us the buildup?

Edited by wowbagger
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I'm just gonna write here what I wrote back in the chat room. They're making out. In Amy's mind 'it's finally happening!' then suddenly Sheldon says 'can I start watching the Flash now?' While it may not mean that he wants to watch flash more than make out, if amy is anything like me, an overthinker, she might probably think 'hey, is this how it's gonna be all the time? Is he never gonna concentrate on me alone? Am I not interesting enough that he wants to watch the Flash while we do this?' It might also make her think about whether or not he's really invested in his relationship with her. She's reevaluating and thinking about it more since now, there's a big possibility that they will have coitus, and she probably doesnt wanna give it away to a person who she thinks is less invested.

 

I don't think Sheldon Cooper works this hard to be better for someone if he is not invested.  Maybe she is too close to it right now, but it really is right in front of her face.  Sheldon is very in love with her.  

 

And again, I don't think he wants to watch the Flash while they are kissing, just that he asked her if he should start following the show.  It's not ideal and I can understand why it can be annoying.  However, let's not act like Sheldon was being so horrible.  Hell, his going for another kiss actually should answer the question of what he really wanted to do.

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Still sounds he would rather watch The Flash then make out with the woman he loves.

 

This is not the way I see it at all. He was going back for more kissing and he obviously told her she killed "the mood" as well as telling Lenny later he was upset they went from kissy face to angry face while they were making out like teenagers under the bleachers. While I don't disagree that Sheldon says the most random things at the worst timing sometimes, and I don't blame Amy for asking him "really, that's what you're thinking about?", I also think this whole thing is blown way out of proportion, because Sheldon obviously was INTO IT and had no intention to stop kissing her and was enjoying it (hence, the mood). If Sheldon had preferred watching the Flash instead, he would have. 

 

The point is that he would rather think about and TALK about whether or not he should watch a TV show than make out with her. Not that he wanted to watch it instead. Honestly, does it matter? The point is they were making out and he was thinking about TV. Kind of a bummer if you're the girl he's kissing.

 

It does matter a great deal to me. Getting momentarily distracted during what appears to be a very long makeout session is one thing (and we see that happening all the time to the other couples on the show too), wanting to stop making out because he prefers watching tv is another. I'm not putting all the blame on Amy for being disappointed, for the reasons I explained in other posts this morning and I'm not going to repeat myself. But I also think that she overreacted, because, again, this is not any guy. This is Sheldon. He doesn't just make out with anyone, if he's not 100% into the person.

 

Having said that, I am starting to wonder whether this is the only way the writers could envision shifting gears from making it look like Sheldon is only going along with what she wants to making it clear that he wants her just as much, but he's just going slow. I do think that is a necessary shift, and I probably wouldn't have handled it this way (especially this year), but I can see that this is what the whole scenario is setting up, as far as I can see. Amy is going to come back from her "time off" being honest with him, and she's going to get the answer that "Yes, I do want you.", which, as an audience, we already got to see via his talk to Lenny and the fact that he had a ring in his desk.

 

eta: I just wanted to add that I agree totally with what you say, wow, about Amy having put up a smiley face to stuff that was 100 times worse than this. I understand that people can snap for little nothings after cumulative frustration, but the problem is that Amy, this season, had no cumulative frustration whatsoever, other than the Mars thing that they solved right away. Again, I do hope that this is going to go head on to address the fact that Amy is insecure about Sheldon's attitude towards physical intimacy and that's why she's so snappy about this stuff, and that Sheldon will clear the air for her and this is the way for the writers to turn the page on "asexual" Sheldon. Although, again, from the way the makeout was described, it doesn't require much spelling out to me.

Edited by koops
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Look on the bright side, we've got a new game now - Predict the episode he's going to propose.

 

 

They're probably stretch that out until near the end of the season, with a few false alarms before that.

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We also can't be sure when he got the ring. It is heavily my opinion that he got it after watching Leonard and Penny talk about eloping. Because otherwise it would have come up before that. "I was even going to propose to her!" But no, his whole attitude with Lenny was, "I don't get why she's mad at me. What did I do wrong?" And then it's not until a full day and a half later that he calls her and says he's been thinking about the relationship. It sounds like the "thinking" had to come post-fight.

 

The ring purchase happened off screen.  I love off screen Shamy moments.

 

Predict the proposal!!  LOVE IT!

Edited by notchinc
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While it's not what our Shamy loving hearts wanted to hear, it's still not as bad as last year's finale, and look how this season played out in response to that! He only stayed away for 45 days and came back much more appreciative of her than he ever had been before.  If his leaving had that effect on him, imagine what her needing a break from him, will have.  I just wonder about the ring though.  Was it gotten because he honestly felt contrite about putting her second (because it doesn't seem as he really gets what the problem was), or was it along the lines of----She really liked the tiara that time, how can I top it? I think that if/when he proposes in Season 9, it will be when he really means it, not as a gift to get to make up for being a putz (lol).  And that probably wouldn't happen until mid year or next year's finale.  The writers are just speeding things up now.  It all depends on how long they make the time be between the finale and the first episode of 9.  The longer the time, I think, the more far along Sheldon can be in his thinking. 

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I don't think Sheldon Cooper works this hard to be better for someone if he is not invested.  Maybe she is too close to it right now, but it really is right in front of her face.  Sheldon is very in love with her.  

 

And again, I don't think he wants to watch the Flash while they are kissing, just that he asked her if he should start following the show.  It's not ideal and I can understand why it can be annoying.  However, let's not act like Sheldon was being so horrible.  Hell, his going for another kiss actually should answer the question of what he really wanted to do.

yes, I know he's invested, that's why I said "she thinks". Since their relationship is an unconventional one, Amy might be thinking that since Sheldon's not doing certain things in their relationship, she might think he isn't invested when in truth, he is very invested, he just does it in a different manner from the conventional couple 

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Sheldon didn't even realize how and why she was upset, I seriously doubt he would be willing to propose on a whim out of nowhere just because she got upset over a kiss. That is a HUGE commitment and HUGE change in their lives, it's not like going out to buy a tiara. I think that, kind of like with asking her to be his girlfriend, that's something that has been rattling around his brain for a while ("If I had a fiance or a wife"), even though he might not have been planning to do it that night per se. Again, if the writers wanted to convey the message that Sheldon's ring was just a way to try and patch things up, they would have made that clear by having him pulling it out and Amy turning him down (which would have been a hell of a shocker), rather than the way it went down, where we are meant to see that Amy is unaware of his intentions. The way the end reads to me is a total heartbreaking misunderstanding between the two. And I do think it has the potential to be resolved in an incredibly sweet and touching way. I just wish it came at a different time in their relationship, because I do not find it necessary right now and the "taking a break" cliche' is done over and over in so many shows. 

 

On a related note, was the episode a "To be continued" episode? As in, did it give you the impression it would pick up from the same timeframe, more or less, especially if Lenny are still in Vegas and heading to get married (which is just mindblowing to me, still, given Leonard's confession. Wtf.). 

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eta: I just wanted to add that I agree totally with what you say, wow, about Amy having put up a smiley face to stuff that was 100 times worse than this. I understand that people can snap for little nothings after cumulative frustration, but the problem is that Amy, this season, had no cumulative frustration whatsoever, other than the Mars thing that they solved right away. Again, I do hope that this is going to go head on to address the fact that Amy is insecure about Sheldon's attitude towards physical intimacy and that's why she's so snappy about this stuff, and that Sheldon will clear the air for her and this is the way for the writers to turn the page on "asexual" Sheldon. Although, again, from the way the makeout was described, it doesn't require much spelling out to me.

 

I so agree with all of this. Amy has a history (especially seasons 5 & 6) of not being direct and actually communicating how she feels about something to Sheldon, and as frustrating as that was, it made sense because she was the girl who grew up with no friends...of course she wouldn't be great at communicating her feelings directly to someone. And with clueless Sheldon, it led to plenty of little clashes and misunderstandings. This season, for the most part, showed vast improvement in the way that they communicate. She has gotten more direct with him, which has been wonderful to see. Things have been moving along steadily with little obvious dysfunction. And then we get this. 

 

I understand the idea they're trying to sell us here. And I could even believe that Amy might secretly struggle day in-day out with not quite understanding how Sheldon feels about her and where things are going, and not being able to muster the courage to be direct and just ask, even after all this time. I could also believe that this insecurity coupled with Sheldon's complete oblivion to it could wear her down and bring her to a breaking point, especially when they are celebrating a big milestone. I can buy that. My issue is that since there was no indication all season that this is a struggle (quite the opposite, really), it makes Amy's reaction look like much ado about nothing. Like, I understand the idea, and I can appreciate it, but with all of the signs all season pointing to the fact that they are communicating better than ever, this just feels kind of cheap, you know? I can totally get behind a plot of Amy struggling with the progress and wondering how Sheldon really feels, and even wanting to take some time to figure it all out, but when we have no real narrative indication of this all year, it makes it seem like an overreaction by Amy, which I don't think is totally fair to her character.

 

 

 

This concludes this season's habit (for me) of introducing HUGE Shamy developments that I love in and of themselves, but don't believe that the writers have earned in context. The 'I Love You' declaration (yes, I'm continuing to be a pain about that)- beautifully done, but I had a sense of 'yes, but- where did that come from?' The ring? Look, I devoutly believe that Sheldon and Amy are headed towards delightfully weird love and cohabitation, but- hang on, hang on, you JUST had a blanket fort sleepover. I do not for an instant buy that you would plan a move of this magnitude without making Leonard and Penny's lives a living misery about every aspect of the decision.

 

 

Exactly. I actually really love this plot. But I don't think it belongs here. It belongs last season, or maybe next season after some indication that Amy's struggling. I can rationalize Amy sort of hitting a breaking point and it coming out of left field to Sheldon, because again, she has a history of not directly communicating what she feels. Sheldon's surprise at the situation makes it effectively heartbreaking, and now we, as the audience, are postured to rally around Sheldon and truly understand what he wants (which is a wonderful change of pace).  BUT, again, the cost of that drama is that logically, all of it is coming out of left field to us, too, and it sort of feels cheap. I feel like Sheldon with my hat in hands (or ring, I guess)...going "What now, Gollum?"

 

I do want to say that I'm not unhappy (just feeling a little whiplash).  While I agree that Sheldon deciding he's ready for marriage is sort of out of nowhere, I am really intrigued by the idea of him deciding that this is what he wants possibly without understanding or being ready for the consequences. And I'm interested to see how this is going to get resolved. I suspect  quickly, because Sheldon isn't the kind to suffer (or do anything) in silence. Though, he's apparently been silently contemplating marriage for who knows how long, so I guess anything is possible. 

 

If I take off my critical hat, I am pretty happy with all of this overall. Even if it seems a bit unbelievable (damn, how did my critical hat get back on?!), I love how we get to unambiguously see what Sheldon actually wants and are poised to see this relationship through Sheldon's feelings. For the first time, he's vulnerable and the ball is really in Amy's court, which (while I'm a little annoyed at how it got there) I think is for the best. 

Edited by NutMeg
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I would imagine he was already thinking of marriage for a while but when Penny waves her hand in his face when he questioned their slow speed, he was a bit shocked and maybe went then... Or he has had it for some time...

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I just hope that the time between thei finale and the premiere is enough time for her. That this is not protracted over an entire season of will they or won't they get back together. It just bothers me that they had so much progress and this is where they went with it. That being said it would be nice to see him chase her again. Okay now onto the kiss, I just thought it was like in the Expedtion episode where he tells Raj his mind is capable of thinking of several things at once. Let me stand on my soapbox and advocate for aspergers (whether you agree he has it or not I operate on the assumption that yes he does) my son has aspergers too. It is nearly impossible for his mind to focus on one single thing at any given time. He can be having happy birthday sung to him and he is going on about how Luigi is far better than Mario. It is not that Sheldon did not enjoy the kiss, he probably was enjoying it more than Amy knows, it's just that his brain is adjusted to randomness and he was not using his filter b/c to him kissing or not it was the same as any normal time of them being in the couch together,

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I totally agree with koops on this one, the marriage thing is probably something he's been thinking about for quite some time but he hasn't come around to it. It's Flaming Spittoon all over again. He wants Amy and wants her to be with him but he hasn't found the time or courage to just come out and ask, then something happens (e.g Amy decides she's had enough and decides to try dating someone else) and he panics and realizes he needs to kick things up. Hence asking her to be his gf. Then the proposal - Amy wants more and Sheldon's being told he's supposed to speed things up - In his mind that was the cue to pick that ring out of the drawer and ask her to marry him.

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I doubt the time between the finale and the first episode of 9 would be too long---the way things were left, with both Lenny and Shamy---it might be a "to be continued" type thing, unless they told it in a flashback way.  I think this "break-up" thing will just be a little blip---a way for Sheldon to really come to terms with what he wants, which is obviously, Amy.  He wanted her/loved her already;  is trying to find out what he did wrong so he can fix it, and possibly has had the idea of marriage on his mind;  so her needing a break from him is going to hurt.  Hopefully he'll fight to get her back, which I would like to see---him pursuing her.  I'm sure the fanfiction this summer will be interesting! :)

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Yea I think this will be like season 4s finale...as a to be continued... With the Lenny plot it kind of has to be

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I hope they don't wait all of season nine to make up. I have always felt Shamy will marry before Lenny

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Although I wish Shamy wasn't on a break, I can understand why Amy may need a breather after reading a few poster's perspectives. I guess I will have to trust that TPTB have something very special planned for Shamy in season 9. The season 7 finale brought about some major milestones in season 8 so I cannot wait to see what happens in season 9. I have a feeling that things will speed up a bit for Shamy.

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Yea I think this will be like season 4s finale...as a to be continued... With the Lenny plot it kind of has to be

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I hope that is the case

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I know that this is off topic slightly.  When I first read the synopsis of the finale, I was right and truly pissed off with the writers.  Not the fact that Amy wanted a step back, but the actual timing of this in relation to all that has gone on before.

 

However I have had some time to think about this now, and I wonder if the writers were being considerate to Mayim's current circumstances.  Due to her sad personal loss, she has been unavailable for table readings and rehearsals (though I may be wrong) till Monday.  Also, though a consummate professional, I think it would have been harsh to expect her to be anything but restrained at present.

 

I know that there could have been other options, but they chose this, so taking that into account, I am hoping that this will be a 'to be continued' type episode and that the follow up will be awesome.

 

For me the cat is alive, but has taken a nap.

 

 

 

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