Ship Zone [Spoilers]Shamy S8 Thread

[counterfactuals]

I think I'm falling in love with Shamy all over again

[puremorning]

Still zooming...

[Guest]

Remember that joke?

 

'I want to join the Shamy club... But the best part is that there's no club handshake because touching is icky..'

 

WELL, THIS PICTURE MAKES THAT GUY SOUND LIKE AN IDIOT

 

#intimacy

[musicsnob1971]

In the EP with the Fort and now from the pics today of the finale I wonder if there is a reason they put Sheldon in dress shirts instead of his t shirts for scenes that are showing growth in him. Is this suppose to make him seem more grown up? If this has been talked about sorry I missed it but was just a idea I was having.

[EleQueen]

I think that both Sheldon and Amy dress up on date nights. (with a few exceptions on Sheldon's part).

Maybe there's a special clause in the Relationship Agreement about dress code. Who knows?

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[Susana Alcira]

Amy´s dress is similar but with complete different colors!

[Shamynanigans]

I can't believe one week ago they filmed the finale and we get in in a week. AAAAAHHHHH.

[rachelshamyfan]

https://instagram.com/p/2CokloCOEF/

Very close close up

[Retroluv]

My heart is literally racing....can't imagine how I'm going to feel when the episode airs!!!!! I may or may not need to have cold water dumped over my head. Seriously. Kazzie, your posts are both delighting and killing me today!

To those of you who were at the taping: were Amy and Sheldon both breathing heavily when they broke the kiss?

So. Flipping. HOTT. I will die. Again.

I am not going to think about the tag. Just going to bask in the glow of THIS.

[Lionne]

Insert photo of Sheldon and Amy making out, and the massive Shamy fandom freak out here.

Lio's answer to all:

Lio, this makes me feel better about Amy's outburst. Perfectly true that the descent from Cloud Nine is harder than from Ground Zero. Sigh- I still think it was done in a spectacularly graceless fashion. If Amy had pulled away from Sheldon and said 'way to make a girl feel special, bucko', or 'Sheldon, do you actually want to be here kissing me?' then I would - still have thought 'Criminy, girl, give the poor idiot a break.', but I would have got it. And hey, Amy's allowed to be the unreasonable one from time to time. What upsets me is when the show refuses to acknowledge that she is being unreasonable. Paradoxically, that makes me angry on Amy's behalf, because it shows me so clearly that the show doesn't think of her as a character whose pathologies deserve to be fully explored.

No, it was Amy choosing this moment to tick Sheldon off about the pace of the relationship that felt weird to me. Not only unreasonable- that's fine. In a fight, all sorts of stuff comes bubbling out, and there's nothing wrong with Amy getting going and then tearing Sheldon a new one about, I don't know, almost all of Seasons Six and Seven. No, my problem was that the choice of argument and wording felt forced. That choice of argument pulled me RIGHT out of the story. It made the puppet-strings painfully visible to me. I think koops is right that the writers used the argument about pace to jump-start Lenny's plot. And I don't have a problem with writers contriving stuff- that's their job. I have a problem when it feels contrived.

*sigh* Alright, I'm taking a deep breath as I basically take a sharp left turn in disagreement from all my besties, but here goes:

I am not bothered by this. (Trademark: phantagrae. Copyright paid in candy.) In fact, the more I think about it, the more it makes perfect sense to me given the evidence we've seen on screen and trajectory of Sheldon and Amy's storyline this season.

Where to start. Well, I'm going to start with one of the lines which I know has really upset a lot of people, and that's Amy's line which goes something like: Do you think it's funny that you have a pace of the snail when you hero is the fastest man on earth? It's been 5 years and all I've gotten is one distracted make out session on the couch.

I know that a lot of people are chafing at the idea that this line seems to dismiss all of the huge steps both emotional and physical that Sheldon has made over the years for Amy and for their relationship. And that it's upsetting that Amy seems to dismiss all of those steps forward that Sheldon has made and pin it all down to the physical. That all she wants from him is sex, or that she's making it all about sex. While I understand that, I think that the line was very deliberately inserted to inform the audience that what we just saw in the cold open was well and truly Sheldon and Amy's first real make out session. A few posts back, phanta commented on the fact that the one date night kiss we have ever seen was a very "chaste" kiss, and I think that's a fairly good description of it. We were given the information at that point that, after the Valentine's Day train kiss, in which Sheldon found out kissing Amy was a lot more magical than he thought it would be, they talked about it and decided to add these fairly chaste kisses to the end of their date nights. We were told that now this happens as agreed by the RA after date nights, and shown what the kisses looked like - sweet and sincere but also fairly gentle and chaste.

In truth, We have never been shown another kiss since then, and while I think sometimes the fandom has run away with the idea that they might be kissing a lot more often here and there, I think that kisses are primarily kept to date nights and that they have not progressed much from what we saw from the first one. There's really no evidence to suggest otherwise, and since Amy says that that make out session on the couch was "all she's gotten in 5 years," I think this is the writers being very clear: this was their first really intense make out session. TPTB are being clear here: no, fandom, you have not been missing any hot Shamy make out sessions off-screen or anything, we have not been forsaking you, this was really the first time they started getting hot and heavy like this, and you get to see it on-screen.

I think this is very important information, and I think that this information makes the actions and perspectives of both characters make perfect sense, and goes along with everything we have seen them go through this season. It makes sense that Amy was so elated and hence vulnerable to being hurt, and it makes sense that Sheldon was getting so intense because as the reveal of the ring let us know, he's changed, he's made up his mind.

As I said before, two seasons ago we ended with Amy screwing up her courage to tell Sheldon she wanted more physical intimacy in their relationship, to which he told her "maybe" and then decided to test the waters of sex theoretically by consummating their relationship with dice during a game of D&D. A year later, when Amy awkwardly and hopefully pushes on the issue of them living together, he snaps and tells her that that's screwball talk, and next she'll want marriage, kids, and to settle down in a little house together, and all of that is even worse! And then he leaps on a train and skips town over almost 2 months. (And all during that time, Amy never cries, never nags him to come home, never puts pressure on him to come back - she stays calm, supportive, understanding, and waits it out like a saint.) So we know, absolutely, that at that time Sheldon was still struggling with all of the changes happening in his life - his career, the loss of Leonard, his growing attraction to Amy and interest in kissing her, despite his earlier objections to the idea of being intimate with anyone, ever, and the loss of the poor comic book store. That's where he was at a year ago.

Well, this season, Sheldon first put his career back into line somehow by skipping to dark matter and then getting involved with Leonard's paper, he and Leonard have had their mutual crying session over their impending break up, the comic book store has been rebuilt, and Sheldon and Amy have proclaimed their love to each other. Sheldon's grown and become more relaxed and happy, and then we've had two really important Shamy episodes and this is what we got from them:

Amy's fan fic episode - This is the episode where it was really driven home how much Amy desires Sheldon to acknowledge that she's part of his future, and just how scared and vulnerable and hopeful she is about him being willing to be her partner in that. Her embarrassment over them finding the fan fiction in the first place, and then the way she wrote her own character and the story - about her heart beating and wanting to ask him if he felt the same way, but being too scared to ask. Her devastation he was leaving for the future and her own inability to show her true feelings and beg him to stay, and her elation when he comes back and touches her shoulder and tells her that there's no future without her. A great deal of that episode displayed just how vulnerable her love for Sheldon makes her feel, and how much she loves and wants her future to be with him, but that she's scared to ask him directly and how much she wants to hear him say he wants her after he's come to the conclusion on his own. Precisely as he did with the "I love you too," which knocked her off her feet. But Amy wants it to involuntarily come from him, not push for it.

The turtle episode - The future was, once again, the issue at hand over the turtle and Sheldon's application to Mars. Getting the turtle together showed Sheldon's willingness to commit to taking care of another creature with her, and she was so high on that that when she found out about his Mars application, she was deeply upset. Again, it was Sheldon planning a part of his future away from her and without her, and she barely knew how to express herself, and how upset she was, and stormed off and ended up yelling at him. But it was the first time that Sheldon got started thinking about planning his future with her, and the thought dawned on him that if he was going to go somewhere, and especially if he might die, he wanted her by his side.

Meanwhile, Leonard's confrontation about the fact that he wasn't living with the woman he loved just for Sheldon really knocked Sheldon for a loop. As selfish as Sheldon is about things, he's not so selfish that he wants to be the one thing standing in the way of Leonard and Penny's happiness; he loves them and he does want them to be happy. He seemed devastated to think that he was the only thing holding them back, and he started to cry then thinking about his life without Leonard in it, or without Leonard as his roommate, but at least he started thinking about it - life after Leonard moved out. He's refused to really consider the possibility before, but Sheldon hit up against a level of selfishness even he can't reach - preventing Leonard's happiness with the love of his life. And so, finally, Sheldon had to start thinking about life after Leonard and what that would look like.

And then there was the "I love you" and the sleepover and the 8.2, and Sheldon growing happier and more relaxed and confident about his relationship all the time. Continuing going on date nights, continuing to give Amy kisses at the end of those evenings. Making his slow steps forward and turning all of these things over in his mind until he made his decision. THE decision.

The decision to marry Amy. We saw the ring, now we know, everything this season - and perhaps since the physic hit him up about "giving himself" to Amy and his life falling in line, which pissed him off so much - has been about everything that Sheldon needed to process in order to flip his switch from two years or more of "maybe" to "yes."

As Koops has pointed out, Amy often thinks "this is awesome!" and is ready to dive right into things head first. Sheldon is the opposite, he needs to turn things over in his mind over and over, and for a long time, before he is ready. Another area where they are opposite is that Amy has always wanted to have friends, belong, have a boyfriend, and etc, while Sheldon has never (supposedly) cared much about having friends or what the rest of the world found normal or not. (Which is debatable, considering his comments to Proton about having no friends growing up except the Professor, or his comment to Howard about having no friends to help him with his father's death, while Howard has them to help with the death of his Mom.) But as we saw in her fan fiction, as we saw in the D&D episode when Amy cried and hung out in Sheldon's room, and needed all her courage to tell him she wanted more, romantically, Amy is very vulnerable to rejection and despite all of her sass and spunk and pure faith in people, she can be incredibly hurt when her heart is on the line. (Like she was very hurt and felt foolish when Penny and Bernadette went shopping without her.) I don't agree that the Show doesn't acknowledge she's being unreasonable; it just is what it is. She feels a certain way and acts out of that. Here she felt upset that Sheldon didn't seem as over the moon about their romance as she was; he didn't even stay anywhere remotely near that topic. Maybe a more experienced or less vulnerable person could have handled it better, but we all know Amy isn't. And as many others have pointed out on this thread, despite their experience, if they got the thing about the TV show at that moment, it would have hurt their confidence. It would have hurt me, I completely understand why Amy was so upset, and I don't think she was unreasonable. She lashed out, sure, but from a feeling and emotional place I understand.

As my friend Nutmeg pointed out once a long time ago, Sheldon takes forever to make up his mind, but once he does, he's a man of action. When Stuart almost stole Amy from him, Sheldon made up his mind and hunted her down in the movie theater to ask her out right then and there. Once Sheldon makes up his mind, he doesn't hesitate. HE KNOWS HOW HE FEELS. (Oh, and by the way, the show took a little stop along the way this season to make it clear once and for all that Sheldon does NOT love Penny, and never will, as more than a sister. Thanks show, you got that out of the way too. It's Amy, and all Amy.)

The engagement ring and Sheldon fully making out with Amy on the couch is no different to me. We know that Sheldon must have bought that ring sometime between the turtle episode and this episode, but before they were making out on the couch for their anniversary. The moment Sheldon decided that he wanted to marry Amy, and that yes, his future was with her and that yes, she was the one and his future was with her, and he was 100% sure, he bought that ring. AND - this is most important - his kisses changed. Everything this season has been about leading Sheldon to consider his future and the fact he loves Amy - and he got there. He bought the ring. He made up his mind, and as usual, once he did, he's a man of action and his entire body language and action with actually making out with Amy on the couch reflected the new level that he's on now.

Everything follows his decision - Sheldon has flipped from "It's a possibility" or "I have not ruled it out" to "I'm making the possibility reality," and "I have ruled it in." His mind is made up, and what follows is his usual taking action - he bought a ring. He's kissing her deeply and romantically and doesn't want to stop. And I can even see why The Flash and superheros were on his mind during this kiss - Sheldon must have felt like one! For a man who never wanted to be intimately involved with anyone, ever, to meet the girl of his dreams and fall in love with her and decide he wants to marry her in "only" 5 years must seem like a speeding train, and to be there on the couch kisses her like that and feeling so high on life might have made him wonder if this is what superheros felt like, on top of the world, on top of life. And maybe that's what segue wayed his thinking into starting to follow the Flash TV show - I don't know - but it's possible.

But for Sheldon to reach the point he's at makes perfect sense and could NOT have happened at the start of this season. And for Amy to be vulnerable and go from Cloud 9, and thinking this is finally happening to stunned shock that he's asking her about starting to watch one of his "cheap science fiction" TV shows must have just hit her in the gut. In fact, we know it did - we see it in the way that she pauses to ask him if SHE is in his thoughts - and he gives a horrible answer - and then she gets really upset and leaves. And is it not a good thing for Amy, in many ways, that she needs to lose her rose-tinted glasses in regards to Sheldon and see him as he really is? Is it not gut-wrenching to see her finally lose faith and hope that he has sexual feelings for her (I'm always hoping, she said in prom) after so long when he's finally, finally gotten around to where she's hoped he'll come for so long?

It's killing me! It's an even race - her patience vs his pace - bam, one finally gets there but just as the other gives out. Ain't these two a pair?

And so....that is why I don't think all of this could have happened at the beginning of the season. And that's why I think it's on target for everything that has happened between this couple. And I think it's devastating that they have come to this spot, but I have always felt that this is where they were headed at some point. Sheldon FINALLY ready and Amy FINALLY disillusioned after all her hopeful, patient and understanding waiting.

Sure we're at a crossroads, but no one out there can possibly think this is over, right? Sheldon is on "yes," and he's our hero and man of action. I guess that the fandom will need to have faith in Sheldon, and root for him to go get our girl while Amy is having doubts. What a summer it'll be, but until then, I remain Team Shamy!

(And wait for my friends to counter-argue. But this is my kitchen; I can stand the heat. Bring it, kittens!)

Lio actually succeeded in making me feel better thank you Lio! So here is my new crazy little prediction. After a a few episode chase on Sheldions part, they resume their relationship. On the 200th episode they have coitus , during which Sheldon proposes to her. In which afterwards Amy's ovaries grab on and never let go.

You're welcome, hope this rant makes you feel even more better. And ovaries ahoy - that cracked me up. I had forgotten about that.

Τhat would be priceless...I'm really sad about all this "break" drama,but I think I'm going to enjoy watching Sheldon chasing after Amy.

As Bette said above: AMEN! Edited April 29, 2015 by Lionne

[Retroluv]

Great post, Lio. I have no doubt that they will get back on track in a big way, and I think the ring is a pretty clear indication of where things are headed. I also believe that something like this "break" was bound to happen eventually...so, hey, why not get it out of the way now, right? TPTB know that they have to be careful with angst. Sheldon would not be okay without Amy for more than a few episodes. We're going to see him chase her...and I can't wait.

It will be interesting to read interviews with the cast and producers once the episode has aired and everything is out in the open. I think we may get a better idea at that point of what to expect in early season 9.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Retroluv

[Cecilia]

@Lio I also had the feeling it was their first make out. I've read many people think they propane are doing it for some time since they seemed more comfortable than the last time but this line actually made me also think it was the first time. Guess that something that may be never cleared up.

As for the rest of your post while I agree mostly with wow I can see your reasoning. Actually I don't think your opinion is much different that the people who objected on some things (or at least some of them). Personally what annoyed me the most was that line about the distracted make out because no matter what it was written in for it's a bit unfair about Sheldon. Now these things are said in an argument and it's understandable I just wish that before this is resolved there will be acknowledgement about Sheldon's efforts. In the end I think it all comes down on the way they will handle it. The more I thing of it the more I feel that in the end I didn't dislike season's 7 finale that much before I saw that they didn't really resolved this (may I add in my opinion cause last season finale can provoke quite the debate I am not willing to make). For me this finale is much better anyway but if they really manage to convey all these things you describe next season then I wouldn't be surprised if most of the people who aren't really sure about the finale will be probably really happy. I think it mostly is about what is in the future wit this one rather than a line Amy said that can or cannot be a plot devise (but highly unfair in my opinion). Anyway I think that when we see the episode we will probably reevaluate many things. What I will give them without watching it though is the fact that the scene when Amy asks for some time is made without shouting and stuff like that. Simple and emotional and that's it were the audience will sympathise with both of them.

[Lionne]

All I can think is:

SORRY FOR THE CLIFFHANGER, BUT THE CLIFFS THEY MUST HANG.

That's a finale, folks.

Cliffs and I are going to be hanging out all summer.

Out of curiosity, what part of the line bugs you so much? The "distracted" part, or the "all I've gotten" part? I don't disagree on distracted, I think Sheldon comes off as very distracted and not concentrating on her due to his comment about the Flash. I get that the "all I've gotten" is where people are going to argue, because he's given so much, and come so far, just for her. Amy has gotten a lot more out of him, just not sex. But I think in this case the topic IS sex, or romance in general. Like Amy on the train: I deserve some romance and I didn't know any other way to make it happen. She wants romance, she has always been hoping for more of it, and with Sheldon it can be very hard to see sometimes. And Amy does lose hope and struggle from time to time. She was very unsure about how Sheldon felt about her until Leonard showed her Sheldon's screensaver, for instance. But then she was right back to cocky, bless her.

But you know.....romance and relationships take maintence. At the start of the season, Amy was happy she and Sheldon scored an 8.2 on the relationship test, but she would like Sheldon to say romantic things to her sometimes, to tell her how he feels, and he's not that person. Sometimes Amy understands that, and at other times she's just hungry for more, and that give and take is something they both have to work on for their long term happiness. Amy needs to have faith in how much Sheldon loves her and how much power she has over him, and he needs to learn to say sweeter things sometimes. Or.....at least when she gushes about being together 5 years and their anniversary, not to comment on TV. It's something they will have to work out.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Lionne

[koops]

I think the kissing business is up for interpretation still. While I don't think they have been making out for a whole year or not even months, I also frankly am not of the impression that kissing is restricted to Date Nights or that this is their first make out session. Reasons? We have heard from multiple friends of theirs they kiss (Leonard, Raj) and we know she plants kisses on him in tree lots and (we shall see how it looks like on screen, but I trust the multiple witnesses on this one!) the way they are kissing here to me screams "practice". I don't think they would have shot it looking this natural if the message was meant to be "first". It's been over a year and a half since that train kiss and while I definitely do not think these two are necking every chance they get, I also don't think kisses are rare or scheduled events anymore. I think the "all I get out of you is a distracted make out session" is not a direct reference to this particular instance but just an example of how far they've come because.... Well, (distracted) make out sessions on the couch is as far as they've come. But that's my take on the scene and obviously not grounded in anything more than speculation.

As for the rest of the post, Lio, I get your points. Totally. I think people really got too hung up with this whole Teams thing. Nobody is totally on one team or the other exclusively, obviously, or we wouldn't be in this thread. But I feel like brining some Sheldon-sided perspective into the issue is important because already the show and the thread is so overwhelmingly sided with Amy and she is depicted as the one always being in the right (even in episodes where she isn't - like 6x07), that it's easy to forget how much Sheldon has progressed and how much she means to him. One thing I most definitely agree on though is that, yes, Sheldon bailed on the train last year without as much as a goodbye and that was far far worse than a "I need some time to think" break which she brought upon him COMMUNICATING with him. And that just as she has stood by patiently and waiting, he owes her the same graciousness now.

Then there's the little issue about these being fictional characters and these writers not planning ahead but... We've talked about that enough!

But, I'm sorry Lio, you also just ticked the one detail that always makes me flare up when discussing Amy (and I apologize for ranting about this for the hundredth time, but I just can't help myself): Amy did not ALWAYS want a boyfriend. Unless you are deciding to ignore a whole half a season of dialogue on her part. She despised the idea of physical contact/sex, only went on dates to shut her mother up and thought romantic love was an unnecessary cultural construct. One does not need to retcon her entire background to fit in her desires as they are now. Just because she hurt from having no friends and wanted to have friends doesn't mean she wanted romance too. She met Sheldon, she met the others, things changed for her and so did her needs and hopes and desires. I think you can see that friends were a different issue for her from the fact that very rapidly after joining Sheldon's group she tried to gain acceptance and be included in the girls life, whereas, on top of her historical quotes, you don't see the same when it comes to romance. Parasite was purely sexual and even that ended with a total turnoff as soon as Zack opened his mouth, and she never once expressed a desire in dating or having a relationship (despite embracing and expressing a desire for tons of other social activities) until you see her start to crush on Sheldon at the end of S4. She didn't even seemed that phased that they terminated their relationship in Zazzy, she was totally baffled at the idea of him suggesting they try coitus at least once, and I've always maintained that Sheldon was far more smitten with her than she was with him at the beginning of their acquaintance. So, no, I don't lump "friends" and "boyfriend" in the same category and I don't think wanting one implies the other automatically or viceversa.

To be honest, I'm actually not that sold on Sheldon being this stoic individual who did not want any social interaction whatsoever anymore either, given how clingy he is to his friends and how much he talks about having no friends growing up or standing by him when his dad died or being picked last for teams or hurt by being excluded from activities. I'm totally not sold on these differences between Sheldon and Amy and the only difference that really makes sense to me is that when Amy was given a taste of "the world" she went "OMC bring it on!". Whereas Sheldon stayed more aloof. And I wonder whether part of his aloofness has actually more to do with his aversion to change and staying in his safe zone more than anything else. His idolizing Spock is more about who he would like to be, rather than who he is. If there's one thing that I think is totally obvious and true when it comes to Shamy is that Amy is much more open minded and has far less crippling anxieties than Sheldon does. Not that I think he would ever be a party animal or a social creature, but the way he gets upset and clingy and uses "you're my best friend" or lines like that as if it's something that holds real meaning to him, makes me wonder little Sheldon was never as stoic and aloof as he wants us to believe. Maybe he didn't *actively* seek out friendship the way Amy did, but they both have a big baggage about being rejected their whole life, and both being affected by it, for sure. As Fort so sweetly showed us.

I said to myself I was going to write a short post... Yeah, that didn't happen.

Anyway, I'll conclude on a SPAZZ over that make out photo once again!!! And LMAO at Kazzie's visual aids to play "spot the difference" between photo make out and filmed makeout. I kind of feel greedy now because first I was like "I need those photos, NOW!!!" And now that I've had the photos I'm like "I need movement, NOW!!!!". HQ movement, preferably.

Edited April 29, 2015 by koops

[fitzsimmons]

To those of you who were at the taping: were Amy and Sheldon both breathing heavily when they broke the kiss?

 

I don't believe so. I could be mistaken, but it seemed like they just pulled back and were smiling. There might have been a light sigh? But nothing heavy.

[nickelette424]

Lio's answer to all:

 

*sigh* Alright, I'm taking a deep breathe as I basically take a sharp left turn in disagreement from all my besties, but here goes:

I am not bothered by this. (Trademark: phantagrae. Copyright paid in candy.) In fact, the more I think about it, the more it makes perfect sense to me given the evidence we've seen on screen and trajectory of Sheldon and Amy's storyline this season.

Where to start. Well, I'm going to start with one of the lines which I know has really upset a lot of people, and that's Amy's line which goes something like: Do you think it's funny that you have a pace of the snail when you hero is the fastest man on earth? It's been 5 years and all I've gotten is one distracted make out session on the couch.

I know that a lot of people are chafing at the idea that this line seems to dismiss all of the huge steps both emotional and physical that Sheldon has made over the years for Amy and for their relationship. And that it's upsetting that Amy seems to dismiss all of those steps forward that Sheldon has made and pin it all down to the physical. That all she wants from him is sex, or that she's making it all about sex. While I understand that, I think that the line was very deliberately inserted to inform the audience that what we just saw in the cold open was well and truly Sheldon and Amy's first real make out session. A few posts back, phanta commented on the fact that the one date night kiss we have ever seen was a very "chaste" kiss, and I think that's a fairly good description of it. We were given the information at that point that, after the Valentine's Day train kiss, in which Sheldon found out kissing Amy was a lot more magical than he thought it would be, they talked about it and decided to add these fairly chaste kisses to the end of their date nights. We were told that now this happens as agreed by the RA after date nights, and shown what the kisses looked like - sweet and sincere but also fairly gentle and chaste.

In truth, We have never been shown another kiss since then, and while I think sometimes the fandom has run away with the idea that they might be kissing a lot more often here and there, I think that kisses are primarily kept to date nights and that they have not progressed much from what we saw from the first one. There's really no evidence to suggest otherwise, and since Amy says that that make out session on the couch was "all she's gotten in 5 years," I think this is the writers being very clear: this was their first really intense make out session. TPTB are being clear here: no, fandom, you have not been missing any hot Shamy make out sessions off-screen or anything, we have not been forsaking you, this was really the first time they started getting hot and heavy like this, and you get to see it on-screen.

I think this is very important information, and I think that this information makes the actions and perspectives of both characters make perfect sense, and goes along with everything we have seen them go through this season. It makes sense that Amy was so elated and hence vulnerable to being hurt, and it makes sense that Sheldon was getting so intense because as the reveal of the ring let us know, he's changed, he's made up his mind.

As I said before, two seasons ago we ended with Amy screwing up her courage to tell Sheldon she wanted more physical intimacy in their relationship, to which he told her "maybe" and then decided to test the waters of sex theoretically by consummating their relationship with dice during a game of D&D. A year later, when Amy awkwardly and hopefully pushes on the issue of them living together, he snaps and tells her that that's screwball talk, and next she'll want marriage, kids, and to settle down in a little house together, and all of that is even worse! And then he leaps on a train and skips town over almost 2 months. (And all during that time, Amy never cries, never nags him to come home, never puts pressure on him to come back - she stays calm, supportive, understanding, and waits it out like a saint.) So we know, absolutely, that at that time Sheldon was still struggling with all of the changes happening in his life - his career, the loss of Leonard, his growing attraction to Amy and interest in kissing her, despite his earlier objections to the idea of being intimate with anyone, ever, and the loss of the poor comic book store. That's where he was at a year ago.

Well, this season, Sheldon first put his career back into line somehow by skipping to dark matter and then getting involved with Leonard's paper, he and Leonard have had their mutual crying session over their impending break up, the comic book store has been rebuilt, and Sheldon and Amy have proclaimed their love to each other. Sheldon's grown and become more relaxed and happy, and then we've had two really important Shamy episodes and this is what we got from them:

Amy's fan fic episode - This is the episode where it was really driven home how much Amy desires Sheldon to acknowledge that she's part of his future, and just how scared and vulnerable and hopeful she is about him being willing to be her partner in that. Her embarrassment over them finding the fan fiction in the first place, and then the way she wrote her own character and the story - about her heart beating and wanting to ask him if he felt the same way, but being too scared to ask. Her devastation he was leaving for the future and her own inability to show her true feelings and beg him to stay, and her elation when he comes back and touches her shoulder and tells her that there's no future without her. A great deal of that episode displayed just how vulnerable her love for Sheldon makes her feel, and how much she loves and wants her future to be with him, but that she's scared to ask him directly and how much she wants to hear him say he wants her after he's come to the conclusion on his own. Precisely as he did with the "I love you too," which knocked her off her feet. But Amy wants it to involuntarily come from him, not push for it.

The turtle episode - The future was, once again, the issue at hand over the turtle and Sheldon's application to Mars. Getting the turtle together showed Sheldon's willingness to commit to taking care of another creature with her, and she was so high on that that when she found out about his Mars application, she was deeply upset. Again, it was Sheldon planning a part of his future away from her and without her, and she barely knew how to express herself, and how upset she was, and stormed off and ended up yelling at him. But it was the first time that Sheldon got started thinking about planning his future with her, and the thought dawned on him that if he was going to go somewhere, and especially if he might die, he wanted her by his side.

Meanwhile, Leonard's confrontation about the fact that he wasn't living with the woman he loved just for Sheldon really knocked Sheldon for a loop. As selfish as Sheldon is about things, he's not so selfish that he wants to be the one thing standing in the way of Leonard and Penny's happiness; he loves them and he does want them to be happy. He seemed devastated to think that he was the only thing holding them back, and he started to cry then thinking about his life without Leonard in it, or without Leonard as his roommate, but at least he started thinking about it - life after Leonard moved out. He's refused to really consider the possibility before, but Sheldon hit up against a level of selfishness even he can't reach - preventing Leonard's happiness with the love of his life. And so, finally, Sheldon had to start thinking about life after Leonard and what that would look like.

And then there was the "I love you" and the sleepover and the 8.2, and Sheldon growing happier and more relaxed and confident about his relationship all the time. Continuing going on date nights, continuing to give Amy kisses at the end of those evenings. Making his slow steps forward and turning all of these things over in his mind until he made his decision. THE decision.

The decision to marry Amy. We saw the ring, now we know, everything this season - and perhaps since the physic hit him up about "giving himself" to Amy and his life falling in line, which pissed him off so much - has been about everything that Sheldon needed to process in order to flip his switch from two years or more of "maybe" to "yes."

As Koops has pointed out, Amy often thinks "this is awesome!" and is ready to dive right into things head first. Sheldon is the opposite, he needs to turn things over in his mind over and over, and for a long time, before he is ready. Another area where they are opposite is that Amy has always wanted to have friends, belong, have a boyfriend, and etc, while Sheldon has never (supposedly) cared much about having friends or what the rest of the world found normal or not. (Which is debatable, considering his comments to Proton about having no friends growing up except the Professor, or his comment to Howard about having no friends to help him with his father's death, while Howard has them to help with the death of his Mom.) But as we saw in her fan fiction, as we saw in the D&D episode when Amy cried and hung out in Sheldon's room, and needed all her courage to tell him she wanted more, romantically, Amy is very vulnerable to rejection and despite all of her sass and spunk and pure faith in people, she can be incredibly hurt when her heart is on the line. (Like she was very hurt and felt foolish when Penny and Bernadette went shopping without her.) I don't agree that the Show doesn't acknowledge she's being unreasonable; it just is what it is. She feels a certain way and acts out of that. Here she felt upset that Sheldon didn't seem as over the moon about their romance as she was; he didn't even stay anywhere remotely near that topic. Maybe a more experienced or less vulnerable person could have handled it better, but we all know Amy isn't. And as many others have pointed out on this thread, despite their experience, if they got the thing about the TV show at that moment, it would have hurt their confidence. It would have hurt me, I completely understand why Amy was so upset, and I don't think she was unreasonable. She lashed out, sure, but from a feeling and emotional place I understand.

As my friend Nutmeg pointed out once a long time ago, Sheldon takes forever to make up his mind, but once he does, he's a man of action. When Stuart almost stole Amy from him, Sheldon made up his mind and hunted her down in the movie theater to ask her out right then and there. Once Sheldon makes up his mind, he doesn't hesitate. HE KNOWS HOW HE FEELS. (Oh, and by the way, the show took a little stop along the way this season to make it clear once and for all that Sheldon does NOT love Penny, and never will, as more than a sister. Thanks show, you got that out of the way too. It's Amy, and all Amy.)

The engagement ring and Sheldon fully making out with Amy on the couch is no different to me. We know that Sheldon must have bought that ring sometime between the turtle episode and this episode, but before they were making out on the couch for their anniversary. The moment Sheldon decided that he wanted to marry Amy, and that yes, his future was with her and that yes, she was the one and his future was with her, and he was 100% sure, he bought that ring. AND - this is most important - his kisses changed. Everything this season has been about leading Sheldon to consider his future and the fact he loves Amy - and he got there. He bought the ring. He made up his mind, and as usual, once he did, he's a man of action and his entire body language and action with actually making out with Amy on the couch reflected the new level that he's on now.

Everything follows his decision - Sheldon has flipped from "It's a possibility" or "I have not ruled it out" to "I'm making the possibility reality," and "I have ruled it in." His mind is made up, and what follows is his usual taking action - he bought a ring. He's kissing her deeply and romantically and doesn't want to stop. And I can even see why The Flash and superheros were on his mind during this kiss - Sheldon must have felt like one! For a man who never wanted to be intimately involved with anyone, ever, to meet the girl of his dreams and fall in love with her and decide he wants to marry her in "only" 5 years must seem like a speeding train, and to be there on the couch kisses her like that and feeling so high on life might have made him wonder if this is what superheros felt like, on top of the world, on top of life. And maybe that's what segue wayed his thinking into starting to follow the Flash TV show - I don't know - but it's possible.

But for Sheldon to reach the point he's at makes perfect sense and could NOT have happened at the start of this season. And for Amy to be vulnerable and go from Cloud 9, and thinking this is finally happening to stunned shock that he's asking her about starting to watch one of his "cheap science fiction" TV shows must have just hit her in the gut. In fact, we know it did - we see it in the way that she pauses to ask him if SHE is in his thoughts - and he gives a horrible answer - and then she gets really upset and leaves. And is it not a good thing for Amy, in many ways, that she needs to lose her rose-tinted glasses in regards to Sheldon and see him as he really is? Is it not gut-wrenching to see her finally lose faith and hope that he has sexual feelings for her (I'm always hoping, she said in prom) after so long when he's finally, finally gotten around to where she's hoped he'll come for so long?

It's killing me! It's an even race - her patience vs his pace - bam, one finally gets there but just as the other gives out. Ain't these two a pair?

And so....that is why I don't think all of this could have happened at the beginning of the season. And that's why I think it's on target for everything that has happened between this couple. And I think it's devastating that they have come to this spot, but I have always felt that this is where they were headed at some point. Sheldon FINALLY ready and Amy FINALLY disillusioned after all her hopeful, patient and understanding waiting.

Sure we're at a crossroads, but no one out there can possibly think this is over, right? Sheldon is on "yes," and he's our hero and man of action. I guess that the fandom will need to have faith in Sheldon, and root for him to go get our girl while Amy is having doubts. What a summer it'll be, but until then, I remain Team Shamy!

(And wait for my friends to counter-argue. But this is my kitchen; I can stand the heat. Bring it, kittens!)

You're welcome, hope this rant makes you feel even more better. And ovaries ahoy - that cracked me up. I had forgotten about that.

As Bette said above: AMEN!

 

 

 

As always Lio, very well thought out and beautifully written.  I am not sure that I still don't believe the time for Amy to question things should have been earlier this season.  However, after Maddie's report on the episode I definitely felt that this was a misunderstanding and, which is rare for them, lack of communication.  While Sheldon's Flash talk would surely be annoying and incite a little bit of anger, I felt Amy's reaction was over the top.  However, I can certainly see that it could be a straw/camel/back issue.  Maybe I would have bought it more if we have seen a little bit more frustration building, but that whole YMMV thing applies.  But, I also think that if Amy was just direct with him instead of speaking to him with irony and sarcasm, stuff she knows he has a hard time grabbing onto, she might have gotten the answers she wanted.  For Sheldon's part, he needs to come out and just tell her exactly how he feels.  I think he, actually we know now, that he has made up his mind.  Obviously he was planning to say something, but Amy needed to hear this a long time again.

 

Also, I have to say that some of my push back has been this attitude that Sheldon needs to be taught a lesson, Sheldon is a jerk, etc.  I don't think Sheldon was some awful boyfriend here and I think he has actually been a great boyfriend this season.  I think they just missed the boat with each other here.  There has been a lot of talk about what Amy has been through to be with Sheldon.  But Sheldon has been through the wringer as well.  My bias for Sheldon is definitely showing here, if I am being honest.  However, my heart can't help but break thinking about how devastated he must be when she says wants to take a step back.  How hard he has worked on opening his mind and heart to get to this point, it could feel like wasted effort.

 

As far as disagreeing, how boring would it be if we agreed all the time?  I always love a good, honest debate. :D

 

One more thing.  A good piece of television is a good piece of television.  Just because I may have some disagreements about how this came about doesn't mean that I won't like, or even love the episode.  Hell, I am one of the few, okay maybe it was just me and Phanta , that liked S7 finale.

Edited April 29, 2015 by nickelette424

[Chelle]

You girl.. Seriously. <3

 

OK someone just posted this on tumblr and I just threw every piece of fried chicken in this bucket into my face..

Credit to http://myviperroom.tumblr.com/post/117639207289/x-more

 

There goes my heart.. and the song This Kiss by Faith Hill:

 

It' s the way you love me

It's a feeling like this

It's centrifugal motion

It's perpetual bliss

It's that pivotal moment

It's, ah, impossible

This kiss, this kiss

Unstoppable

This kiss, this kiss

[Chelle]

That promo pic is H-O-T. Sheldon is not exactly on his spot. Has some subliminal message there,"I am ready to meet you where you are, even if away from my 'spot'".

[fitzsimmons]

That promo pic is H-O-T. Sheldon is not exactly on his spot. Has some subliminal message there,"I am ready to meet you where you are, even if away from my 'spot'".

 

That was my immediate thought. It was so jarring to see him sitting on the couch and not be in his spot. Mayim said it herself, although she was talking about Amy, but the same can be said for Sheldon. "Well, you have to meet him where he's at. And I think, like, that's a lesson we all could learn, right? You have to meet people where they're at."

[kitlovesjim]

Did everybody die?

The Leonard answer type, "Me teacher, Me!"

Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2

Last night, I can't sleep. I don't have any wifi connection when suddenly someone tags a pic of Shamy kissing! Holy! My gosh! I'm gasping for breath it's wow.. Full of intensity.. Immediately download it and save to my phone and I made it my wallpaper. I can't help but to stare to it for so long.. It is now happening! Sheldon is so passionate; Amy's the luckiest girl to have that lips from Sheldon... My gosh. I hope that they are each others first and last.

Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2

[wowbagger]

Lio's answer to all:

 

*sigh* Alright, I'm taking a deep breathe as I basically take a sharp left turn in disagreement from all my besties, but here goes:

I am not bothered by this. (Trademark: phantagrae. Copyright paid in candy.) In fact, the more I think about it, the more it makes perfect sense to me given the evidence we've seen on screen and trajectory of Sheldon and Amy's storyline this season.

Where to start. Well, I'm going to start with one of the lines which I know has really upset a lot of people, and that's Amy's line which goes something like: Do you think it's funny that you have a pace of the snail when you hero is the fastest man on earth? It's been 5 years and all I've gotten is one distracted make out session on the couch.

I know that a lot of people are chafing at the idea that this line seems to dismiss all of the huge steps both emotional and physical that Sheldon has made over the years for Amy and for their relationship. And that it's upsetting that Amy seems to dismiss all of those steps forward that Sheldon has made and pin it all down to the physical. That all she wants from him is sex, or that she's making it all about sex. While I understand that, I think that the line was very deliberately inserted to inform the audience that what we just saw in the cold open was well and truly Sheldon and Amy's first real make out session. A few posts back, phanta commented on the fact that the one date night kiss we have ever seen was a very "chaste" kiss, and I think that's a fairly good description of it. We were given the information at that point that, after the Valentine's Day train kiss, in which Sheldon found out kissing Amy was a lot more magical than he thought it would be, they talked about it and decided to add these fairly chaste kisses to the end of their date nights. We were told that now this happens as agreed by the RA after date nights, and shown what the kisses looked like - sweet and sincere but also fairly gentle and chaste.

In truth, We have never been shown another kiss since then, and while I think sometimes the fandom has run away with the idea that they might be kissing a lot more often here and there, I think that kisses are primarily kept to date nights and that they have not progressed much from what we saw from the first one. There's really no evidence to suggest otherwise, and since Amy says that that make out session on the couch was "all she's gotten in 5 years," I think this is the writers being very clear: this was their first really intense make out session. TPTB are being clear here: no, fandom, you have not been missing any hot Shamy make out sessions off-screen or anything, we have not been forsaking you, this was really the first time they started getting hot and heavy like this, and you get to see it on-screen.

I think this is very important information, and I think that this information makes the actions and perspectives of both characters make perfect sense, and goes along with everything we have seen them go through this season. It makes sense that Amy was so elated and hence vulnerable to being hurt, and it makes sense that Sheldon was getting so intense because as the reveal of the ring let us know, he's changed, he's made up his mind.

As I said before, two seasons ago we ended with Amy screwing up her courage to tell Sheldon she wanted more physical intimacy in their relationship, to which he told her "maybe" and then decided to test the waters of sex theoretically by consummating their relationship with dice during a game of D&D. A year later, when Amy awkwardly and hopefully pushes on the issue of them living together, he snaps and tells her that that's screwball talk, and next she'll want marriage, kids, and to settle down in a little house together, and all of that is even worse! And then he leaps on a train and skips town over almost 2 months. (And all during that time, Amy never cries, never nags him to come home, never puts pressure on him to come back - she stays calm, supportive, understanding, and waits it out like a saint.) So we know, absolutely, that at that time Sheldon was still struggling with all of the changes happening in his life - his career, the loss of Leonard, his growing attraction to Amy and interest in kissing her, despite his earlier objections to the idea of being intimate with anyone, ever, and the loss of the poor comic book store. That's where he was at a year ago.

Well, this season, Sheldon first put his career back into line somehow by skipping to dark matter and then getting involved with Leonard's paper, he and Leonard have had their mutual crying session over their impending break up, the comic book store has been rebuilt, and Sheldon and Amy have proclaimed their love to each other. Sheldon's grown and become more relaxed and happy, and then we've had two really important Shamy episodes and this is what we got from them:

Amy's fan fic episode - This is the episode where it was really driven home how much Amy desires Sheldon to acknowledge that she's part of his future, and just how scared and vulnerable and hopeful she is about him being willing to be her partner in that. Her embarrassment over them finding the fan fiction in the first place, and then the way she wrote her own character and the story - about her heart beating and wanting to ask him if he felt the same way, but being too scared to ask. Her devastation he was leaving for the future and her own inability to show her true feelings and beg him to stay, and her elation when he comes back and touches her shoulder and tells her that there's no future without her. A great deal of that episode displayed just how vulnerable her love for Sheldon makes her feel, and how much she loves and wants her future to be with him, but that she's scared to ask him directly and how much she wants to hear him say he wants her after he's come to the conclusion on his own. Precisely as he did with the "I love you too," which knocked her off her feet. But Amy wants it to involuntarily come from him, not push for it.

The turtle episode - The future was, once again, the issue at hand over the turtle and Sheldon's application to Mars. Getting the turtle together showed Sheldon's willingness to commit to taking care of another creature with her, and she was so high on that that when she found out about his Mars application, she was deeply upset. Again, it was Sheldon planning a part of his future away from her and without her, and she barely knew how to express herself, and how upset she was, and stormed off and ended up yelling at him. But it was the first time that Sheldon got started thinking about planning his future with her, and the thought dawned on him that if he was going to go somewhere, and especially if he might die, he wanted her by his side.

Meanwhile, Leonard's confrontation about the fact that he wasn't living with the woman he loved just for Sheldon really knocked Sheldon for a loop. As selfish as Sheldon is about things, he's not so selfish that he wants to be the one thing standing in the way of Leonard and Penny's happiness; he loves them and he does want them to be happy. He seemed devastated to think that he was the only thing holding them back, and he started to cry then thinking about his life without Leonard in it, or without Leonard as his roommate, but at least he started thinking about it - life after Leonard moved out. He's refused to really consider the possibility before, but Sheldon hit up against a level of selfishness even he can't reach - preventing Leonard's happiness with the love of his life. And so, finally, Sheldon had to start thinking about life after Leonard and what that would look like.

And then there was the "I love you" and the sleepover and the 8.2, and Sheldon growing happier and more relaxed and confident about his relationship all the time. Continuing going on date nights, continuing to give Amy kisses at the end of those evenings. Making his slow steps forward and turning all of these things over in his mind until he made his decision. THE decision.

The decision to marry Amy. We saw the ring, now we know, everything this season - and perhaps since the physic hit him up about "giving himself" to Amy and his life falling in line, which pissed him off so much - has been about everything that Sheldon needed to process in order to flip his switch from two years or more of "maybe" to "yes."

As Koops has pointed out, Amy often thinks "this is awesome!" and is ready to dive right into things head first. Sheldon is the opposite, he needs to turn things over in his mind over and over, and for a long time, before he is ready. Another area where they are opposite is that Amy has always wanted to have friends, belong, have a boyfriend, and etc, while Sheldon has never (supposedly) cared much about having friends or what the rest of the world found normal or not. (Which is debatable, considering his comments to Proton about having no friends growing up except the Professor, or his comment to Howard about having no friends to help him with his father's death, while Howard has them to help with the death of his Mom.) But as we saw in her fan fiction, as we saw in the D&D episode when Amy cried and hung out in Sheldon's room, and needed all her courage to tell him she wanted more, romantically, Amy is very vulnerable to rejection and despite all of her sass and spunk and pure faith in people, she can be incredibly hurt when her heart is on the line. (Like she was very hurt and felt foolish when Penny and Bernadette went shopping without her.) I don't agree that the Show doesn't acknowledge she's being unreasonable; it just is what it is. She feels a certain way and acts out of that. Here she felt upset that Sheldon didn't seem as over the moon about their romance as she was; he didn't even stay anywhere remotely near that topic. Maybe a more experienced or less vulnerable person could have handled it better, but we all know Amy isn't. And as many others have pointed out on this thread, despite their experience, if they got the thing about the TV show at that moment, it would have hurt their confidence. It would have hurt me, I completely understand why Amy was so upset, and I don't think she was unreasonable. She lashed out, sure, but from a feeling and emotional place I understand.

As my friend Nutmeg pointed out once a long time ago, Sheldon takes forever to make up his mind, but once he does, he's a man of action. When Stuart almost stole Amy from him, Sheldon made up his mind and hunted her down in the movie theater to ask her out right then and there. Once Sheldon makes up his mind, he doesn't hesitate. HE KNOWS HOW HE FEELS. (Oh, and by the way, the show took a little stop along the way this season to make it clear once and for all that Sheldon does NOT love Penny, and never will, as more than a sister. Thanks show, you got that out of the way too. It's Amy, and all Amy.)

The engagement ring and Sheldon fully making out with Amy on the couch is no different to me. We know that Sheldon must have bought that ring sometime between the turtle episode and this episode, but before they were making out on the couch for their anniversary. The moment Sheldon decided that he wanted to marry Amy, and that yes, his future was with her and that yes, she was the one and his future was with her, and he was 100% sure, he bought that ring. AND - this is most important - his kisses changed. Everything this season has been about leading Sheldon to consider his future and the fact he loves Amy - and he got there. He bought the ring. He made up his mind, and as usual, once he did, he's a man of action and his entire body language and action with actually making out with Amy on the couch reflected the new level that he's on now.

Everything follows his decision - Sheldon has flipped from "It's a possibility" or "I have not ruled it out" to "I'm making the possibility reality," and "I have ruled it in." His mind is made up, and what follows is his usual taking action - he bought a ring. He's kissing her deeply and romantically and doesn't want to stop. And I can even see why The Flash and superheros were on his mind during this kiss - Sheldon must have felt like one! For a man who never wanted to be intimately involved with anyone, ever, to meet the girl of his dreams and fall in love with her and decide he wants to marry her in "only" 5 years must seem like a speeding train, and to be there on the couch kisses her like that and feeling so high on life might have made him wonder if this is what superheros felt like, on top of the world, on top of life. And maybe that's what segue wayed his thinking into starting to follow the Flash TV show - I don't know - but it's possible.

But for Sheldon to reach the point he's at makes perfect sense and could NOT have happened at the start of this season. And for Amy to be vulnerable and go from Cloud 9, and thinking this is finally happening to stunned shock that he's asking her about starting to watch one of his "cheap science fiction" TV shows must have just hit her in the gut. In fact, we know it did - we see it in the way that she pauses to ask him if SHE is in his thoughts - and he gives a horrible answer - and then she gets really upset and leaves. And is it not a good thing for Amy, in many ways, that she needs to lose her rose-tinted glasses in regards to Sheldon and see him as he really is? Is it not gut-wrenching to see her finally lose faith and hope that he has sexual feelings for her (I'm always hoping, she said in prom) after so long when he's finally, finally gotten around to where she's hoped he'll come for so long?

It's killing me! It's an even race - her patience vs his pace - bam, one finally gets there but just as the other gives out. Ain't these two a pair?

And so....that is why I don't think all of this could have happened at the beginning of the season. And that's why I think it's on target for everything that has happened between this couple. And I think it's devastating that they have come to this spot, but I have always felt that this is where they were headed at some point. Sheldon FINALLY ready and Amy FINALLY disillusioned after all her hopeful, patient and understanding waiting.

Sure we're at a crossroads, but no one out there can possibly think this is over, right? Sheldon is on "yes," and he's our hero and man of action. I guess that the fandom will need to have faith in Sheldon, and root for him to go get our girl while Amy is having doubts. What a summer it'll be, but until then, I remain Team Shamy!

(And wait for my friends to counter-argue. But this is my kitchen; I can stand the heat. Bring it, kittens!)

 

 

Awwww, Lio, was it not Erasmus who said 'It is easy to disagree with an enemy. It takes real courage to disagree with a friend'?

 

Him or Dumbledore, anyway.

 

So check us out, showing all sorts of courage.

 

My take on the finale is primarily born of aesthetics. I don't like it when I'm pulled out of a story. I don't like it when I feel too obviously manipulated. And this finale, for me, had the writers zooming straight to a development they wanted without doing all the work to earn it. And I am especially curmudgeonly, because the developments are all ones that I really, really like. And with some effort and planning, I believe that they could have been led to, organically and naturally, without me sitting there saying 'Where..... did that come from?'

 

The Shamy developments the writers wanted to engineer? Sheldon having to pursue Amy. Sheldon- unbeknownst to Amy, unprompted by Amy, demonstrating commitment. Amy pushing back at Sheldon.

 

The Lenny developments the writers wanted to engineer? Sheldon demonstrating that he's not going to stand in Lenny's way, by actively pushing Lenny to progress in their prior commitment. Lenny going for it, but then potentially stalling.

 

And for the finale? The cliffs, they hang.

 

All of these developments are developments I welcome. All of these developments have plenty of raw material with which to generate them organically. It annoys me that the writers ignored the ready-made material in favour of an eleventh-hour conflict.

 

I'll not discuss the Lenny thing in overmuch detail, save to say: Lenny have plenty of valid reasons to delay a serious commitment. Fabricating a Leonard hit-and-run drunken infidelity (which he has nursed for two years) feels so random and dumb.

 

Now for Shamy: when I say the conflict feels unearned, I am being really specific here. I mean that this particular conflict, at this particular moment, feels unearned. The arguments they were having felt like they belonged earlier in the season or show, and the arguments they could have been having right now, they weren't. 

 

If the writers had flipped the sequence of the Mars thing and the makeout thing, I would have completely, completely understood Amy taking a step back. It would feel to me, also, like organic buildup. I would get Amy coasting from high to high and then being let down with a whacking great thump. As it is, we had a quickly-resolved Mars colonisation argument (which felt and still feels TOO quickly resolved) and an argument about pace and commitment in a place I still feel it doesn't belong- viz. a dumb (but innocuous!) question breathed out during foreplay. 

 

Okay, okay, even if the events weren't flipped, if Amy had said to Sheldon 'Do you WANT to be here with me, right now? It doesn't feel like you do', then I would kinda, sorta have understood. If she had looked at Sheldon and said 'Seriously? All that coaxing, and you can't keep your mind on kissing me for one hot second?', I would still have said 'Oh, come on! Are you telling me that all you're thinking about is Cooper, The Great and Mighty? Not one little fleeting thought about work/where your car is parked/whether you should use Egyptian Cotton sheets for the next blanket fort?' But, as I say, Amy is allowed to be the unreasonable one from time to time, and she is inexperienced and we know she has insecurities.

 

 

But she wasn't quizzing him about whether he wanted to be there, in the moment, kissing her. Instead she went off on him about the pace of their relationship, which at that point in time, rang painfully false to me. I was sitting there blinking thinking 'Huh? Why pace?' And then came Sheldon's scene with Lenny and I thought 'Oh. That's why Amy brought pace into the argument. So that Sheldon could bring pace top-of-mind for Lenny.'

 

Add to that the writing for Lenny's plot, and I was sitting there shaking my head and thinking 'You're lazy feckers in the writing room. All of these developments you wanted? You could have earned them with a little effort and a little planning. And yes, yes, you don't plan. But you know what? THAT IS NOT AN EXCUSE. It is worse than not an excuse, it is downright culpable. You are not some scrappy little pop-up bakery in Shoreditch. You are the last hurrah of Network Sitcom Juggernauts. You KNOW you are coming back for at least two more seasons. Bloody plan your arcs.'

 

I completely agree with you about Sheldon's behaviour. For the past couple of seasons in particular, the writers have charted Sheldon's fears, his worries, his epiphanies and the moments where he straps on his Big Boy shoes with care and thought. So I completely buy the journey that led from 'Cooties!' to 'I kiss girls now' to 'I kiss girls with eyebrow-singing smoulder now'.*

 

I maintain that it is Amy's behaviour with which I think the writers play fast and loose a little. Starting from her abrupt lunge from 'Sex is off the table' to 'I not only want sex, I also want romance' to 'I've ALWAYS wanted romance and sex, and I was lonely and sad growing up' to 'Why won't my boyfriend- whom I befriended precisely because we wanted the same things- give me romance and sex?'

And look, with some contortion and furious fanwanking, I can make sense of bits of this. What infuriates me is that the writers don't seem to care. To them, Amy's there as a mirror for Sheldon, to catalyse or reflect Sheldon's growth. They don't allow her the same depth and richness of characterisation that they give Sheldon, and Bialik is so good that she can somehow create a coherent character out of all the dizzying crests and troughs she's given, but it's such a pity.

 

 

So much rambling. So much rambling. But for what it's worth, Lio, I even enjoy disagreeing with you. Wait, that came out wrong. Just- you know what I mean.

 

* Because hoo boy, that kiss. I quoted Shakespeare before when I saw it, so I may as well bring his contemporary into the mix and quote Marlowe: 'make me immortal with a kiss'. Maybe I should save my quote-ammo, though, because it really looks as though we'd better hang on to our hats-and ovaries- next season.

[koops]

You know, after reading so many interpretations though, I am starting to back up a little on the "WHY NOW???" rage.

 

And it kind of ties into what you are saying, wowbagger. Sadly, Amy (and her actions and reactions) is still just a mirror for Sheldon's stories and so whatever plot they come up with for her or whatever words come out of her mouth have more to do with the point they want to make about Sheldon than the point they want to make about her. There's been very little exploration of her thought process in going from "all forms of physical contact are off the table" and "romantic love is an unnecessary cultural construct" to "I want to be intimate with you and experience romance at 360 degrees", and all we are left with is filling in the gaps. However, I do think S4 was actually incredibly good in slowly developing Amy from a clone of Sheldon into her own character, with her own brand of quirky. And I get it why they did it; you don't need two Sheldons on the show. But I think her transformation was pretty good. You see her go from cold, robotic, obnoxious weirdo (more grating than even Sheldon himself) to someone who is slowly starting to come out of her shell and showing sides of herself she probably never showed anyone before (the lonely girl who just wanted to have friends), got rejected for (her sad as heck stories that she doesn't even seem to realize are downright depressing, her lack of filter and so on), or didn't even know she had (her sexuality). And it all makes sense because of her exposure to Penny and Bernadette, mainly, but also to Sheldon and their blossoming attraction. I think I can definitely buy that progress, unlike, say, Bernadette, who suddenly seemed to turn from an awkward, quiet girl who couldn't understand jokes into the wolverine she is today. And, don't get me wrong, wolverine Bernadette is hilarious. But I feel like while there's at least a logical explanation for how Amy went from A to B, there's none of that for Bernadette; the writers just decided it would be funnier if she were a feisty little thing who sounds a lot like Mrs Wolowitz when angry, than the shy and awkward girl. So, in that sense, I think they didn't do too bad a job developing Amy at all. I do think though that from S6, especially, the writers had suddenly decided that the story they wanted to tell with Sheldon was "how would he cope if pressured into giving romance? wouldn't that be funny?! LOL LOL LOL men/women stereotypes" and so just fit Amy around that story that they wanted to tell, even going as far as retconning some of her past in a couple of horrendous lines they gave her back then. And here again, it's the same thing: Amy breaks and snaps (or melts into a puddle) when they want to tell a story about Sheldon's progress and they want to make damn sure you get it that he's progressing. I don't think it's very elegant writing, but I think that's once again what they did here (not to mention, making Shamy's argument itself a plot device for the Lenny story).

 

But, after reading so many comments for the past week, I can kind of see why people are saying that maybe this *is* the best time for this type of meltdown. And I'm backing up a little on my "uggggh continuity!" headdesking. If this had happened after S6 or S7, it would have been indeed harder to come back from it. Why? Because at neither of those points it would have been believable that Sheldon isn't changing just to keep her. I think the fact that he's been portrayed as so deeply in love with her this season, and not afraid to show it, and embracing physical intimacy, and just utterly smitten with his lady in every way possible, 1) makes you sympathize with him more (you see him sitting there, with that ring, after all this progress, and you KNOW what Sheldon wants and feel sorry for him - as opposed to "well, you deserved it, jerk" after a Status Quo or any other unmentionable S6 ep), but also 2) makes it clear that whatever he's going to do next with Amy has nothing to do with him doing it out of fear not to lose her, or that he needed to "learn his lesson" in order to do it. I think Sheldon has no lesson to learn here, other than the fact that he's HORRIBLE at expressing his feelings and that he can't just expect Amy to read his mind every single time and know what's rattling around that big bulbous brain of his, because she's already pretty inexperienced (and sometimes terrible at reading body language) as she is, let alone when her brain is all hopped up on oxytocin and dopamine. He has no lesson to learn because he's already there 100%: committed, body and soul. He just hasn't expressed it properly yet. 

 

If this had happened at the Mars thing, it would also have been harder to come back from it, because then, again, one can say that he's wanting to marry her just because otherwise she's going to dump him. The fact that she forgave him there, as she has many other times before, and that despite knowing that she's forgiving his mess-ups time and time again, he's not sitting on his laurels but instead we see his love for her and his commitment grow through the season (in this case, he got that ring some time after that convo, and not to *fix* that convo, because it was already fixed), means that whatever Sheldon is doing, he is doing it because he wants to, and not because he has to.

 

So, yeah. I am feeling a little bit better with each passing day about this finale. But even in the very early hours I thought this was nowhere near as bad as last season's. Last season, because of the way Amy wasn't even factored into the plot, I had dropped the show. I didn't even watch the last 3 eps of S7 until 8x03 came out (which was the episode that, together with one of Steve's summer interviews, restored some of my enthusiasm). But, in this case, I was more facepalming at the lack of elegance in the timing/writing than the plot itself. I'm hoping the premiere will be handled a little bit more elegantly than the finale, now that they got their big shocks out of the way. 

[kitlovesjim]

Have you seen Amy's dress? I think it is much more feminine than the clothes she was wearing before. It kinda look fit to her. It is really feminine.:-):-)

Sheldon's really hot.

Haha I just kinda recall the girls who suddenly become attracted to Sheldon. Nowitzki? And the girl who sat on his bed and he transferred to Leonard's bed? I can't remember her name but she was laughing and smiling to Sheldon. (No one can capture his heart except Amy.)

Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2

[wowbagger]

You know, after reading so many interpretations though, I am starting to back up a little on the "WHY NOW???" rage.

 

And it kind of ties into what you are saying, wowbagger. Sadly, Amy (and her actions and reactions) is still just a mirror for Sheldon's stories and so whatever plot they come up with for her or whatever words come out of her mouth have more to do with the point they want to make about Sheldon than the point they want to make about her. There's been very little exploration of her thought process in going from "all forms of physical contact are off the table" and "romantic love is an unnecessary cultural construct" to "I want to be intimate with you and experience romance at 360 degrees", and all we are left with is filling in the gaps. However, I do think S4 was actually incredibly good in slowly developing Amy from a clone of Sheldon into her own character, with her own brand of quirky. And I get it why they did it; you don't need two Sheldons on the show. But I think her transformation was pretty good. You see her go from cold, robotic, obnoxious weirdo (more grating than even Sheldon himself) to someone who is slowly starting to come out of her shell and showing sides of herself she probably never showed anyone before (the lonely girl who just wanted to have friends), got rejected for (her sad as heck stories that she doesn't even seem to realize are downright depressing, her lack of filter and so on), or didn't even know she had (her sexuality). And it all makes sense because of her exposure to Penny and Bernadette, mainly, but also to Sheldon and their blossoming attraction. I think I can definitely buy that progress, unlike, say, Bernadette, who suddenly seemed to turn from an awkward, quiet girl who couldn't understand jokes into the wolverine she is today. And, don't get me wrong, wolverine Bernadette is hilarious. But I feel like while there's at least a logical explanation for how Amy went from A to B, there's none of that for Bernadette; the writers just decided it would be funnier if she were a feisty little thing who sounds a lot like Mrs Wolowitz when angry, than the shy and awkward girl. So, in that sense, I think they didn't do too bad a job developing Amy at all. I do think though that from S6, especially, the writers had suddenly decided that the story they wanted to tell with Sheldon was "how would he cope if pressured into giving romance? wouldn't that be funny?! LOL LOL LOL men/women stereotypes" and so just fit Amy around that story that they wanted to tell, even going as far as retconning some of her past in a couple of horrendous lines they gave her back then. And here again, it's the same thing: Amy breaks and snaps (or melts into a puddle) when they want to tell a story about Sheldon's progress and they want to make damn sure you get it that he's progressing. I don't think it's very elegant writing, but I think that's once again what they did here (not to mention, making Shamy's argument itself a plot device for the Lenny story).

 

But, after reading so many comments for the past week, I can kind of see why people are saying that maybe this *is* the best time for this type of meltdown. And I'm backing up a little on my "uggggh continuity!" headdesking. If this had happened after S6 or S7, it would have been indeed harder to come back from it. Why? Because at neither of those points it would have been believable that Sheldon isn't changing just to keep her. I think the fact that he's been portrayed as so deeply in love with her this season, and not afraid to show it, and embracing physical intimacy, and just utterly smitten with his lady in every way possible, 1) makes you sympathize with him more (you see him sitting there, with that ring, after all this progress, and you KNOW what Sheldon wants and feel sorry for him - as opposed to "well, you deserved it, jerk" after a Status Quo or any other unmentionable S6 ep), but also 2) makes it clear that whatever he's going to do next with Amy has nothing to do with him doing it out of fear not to lose her, or that he needed to "learn his lesson" in order to do it. I think Sheldon has no lesson to learn here, other than the fact that he's HORRIBLE at expressing his feelings and that he can't just expect Amy to read his mind every single time and know what's rattling around that big bulbous brain of his, because she's already pretty inexperienced (and sometimes terrible at reading body language) as she is, let alone when her brain is all hopped up on oxytocin and dopamine. He has no lesson to learn because he's already there 100%: committed, body and soul. He just hasn't expressed it properly yet. 

 

If this had happened at the Mars thing, it would also have been harder to come back from it, because then, again, one can say that he's wanting to marry her just because otherwise she's going to dump him. The fact that she forgave him there, as she has many other times before, and that despite knowing that she's forgiving his mess-ups time and time again, he's not sitting on his laurels but instead we see his love for her and his commitment grow through the season (in this case, he got that ring some time after that convo, and not to *fix* that convo, because it was already fixed), means that whatever Sheldon is doing, he is doing it because he wants to, and not because he has to.

 

So, yeah. I am feeling a little bit better with each passing day about this finale. But even in the very early hours I thought this was nowhere near as bad as last season's. Last season, because of the way Amy wasn't even factored into the plot, I had dropped the show. I didn't even watch the last 3 eps of S7 until 8x03 came out (which was the episode that, together with one of Steve's summer interviews, restored some of my enthusiasm). But, in this case, I was more facepalming at the lack of elegance in the timing/writing than the plot itself. I'm hoping the premiere will be handled a little bit more elegantly than the finale, now that they got their big shocks out of the way. 

 

Interesting point, koops. I should also back off my histrionics about Amy's characterisation: I agree that the writers have done some good work making her her own person. I just get twitchy about the range of the contradictions that she is meant to comprehend. And not in a 'aren't people fascinating?' way, so much as 'Look, this is what we need her to be right now'.

 

I also agree that if the argument had occurred after a really serious conflict, it would have been harder to address. I still think that the writers should have bit the bullet and done the work, but I accept that it would have been much harder. As it is, we have a conflict that can be resolved in a hopefully far more charming way. Come on, Sheldon In Pursuit!

[Kathy2611]

Well, Lionne, I'm on your side with this finale too and no, it didn't surprise me or feel like it came out of left field at all.

You always seem to articulate so much better exactly what I think about an episode. I come on here and see everybody's freak out over the latest TR and I'm like, "That's not how I see it!" And then you come along and say exactly what I think and feel about it beautifully! Thank you!

You did the same thing with Intimacy but I saw the freak out from that coming right away (even braced myself for it).

I can't wait for this one to air and I can't wait to see the start of season 9. I think when it comes to Shamy, it's going to make season 8 look like child's play.