Ship Zone [Spoilers]Shamy S8 Thread

[Tomasina]

So are we counting the make out as a hug??? It's been 89 days////////////

not quite. They definitely both had to lean into it to reach and embrace eachother for the makeout, but a pure, sheldon-initiated hug is still something we can look forward to for next season.

[Kathy2611]

Those are the quotes, though. To say that the writers never brought up the marriage issue because it's not as funny is speculatory at best (and why wouldn't lines about Sheldon being old fashioned be funny anyway? He's had plenty of those in the past) and I also don't think it's reflected in the dialogue. The talk he had in 6x14 in particular was meant to be anything but funny. It was a dead serious, mature answer to a very personal question. Same thing in 6x23, just to give another example. In either of those, there is no evidence whatsoever that marriage is what is factoring into Sheldon's decisions when it comes to sex. I actually would say he was ridiculing the idea of getting married far later (7x24) than he stopped ridiculing the idea of sex (6x14, 6x23). I think it's pretty clear from 8 years of watching this character that Sheldon's attitude towards sex has everything to do with his disinterest in the act as well as various phobias. I honestly don't think he was even contemplating marriage at all until after Colonization. It just so happens that emotional and physical go hand in hand for him and that, probably, the closest he feels to Amy emotionally (and, therefore, to life-long commitment), the more he is able to relax and stop worrying and take baby steps into that arena.

Could the writers pull out a line about that now? I'm sure they could. But so far I don't think that's the undertone at all, let alone that it was planned all along.

Sorry, I don't know how to bold the part of your quote from my phone. But you said "I think it's pretty clear from 8 years of watching this character that Sheldon's attitude towards sex has everything to do with his disinterest in the act as well as various phobias."

Are you saying you think he's asexual? If so, I completely disagree. I also disagree that he hadn't thought about marriage until after colonization. He himself brought it up in S7 finale. He blew up at her and mentioned getting engaged, get a little house, start a family, enjoy their sunset years together.

Amy never once brought any of those things up with him before then. So why would he bring them up.....unless he himself had thought about it before?

seriously, I mean... SERIOUSLY!!??

oh no...NOT THIS AGAIN!! I think I'm gonna die....

Oh, for the love of God!!!

STOP FREAKING OUT OVER THIS BULLSHIT!!!

Please go back and read my post above (#13670)

WHY did you enumerate our hiatus?!?!?! 100 days...................

Amy does not constantly brings up sex with Sheldon.

Exactly!! He's brought it up plenty of times out of the blue. He obviously has it on his mind some of the time.....

[koops]

Sorry, I don't know how to bold the part of your quote from my phone. But you said "I think it's pretty clear from 8 years of watching this character that Sheldon's attitude towards sex has everything to do with his disinterest in the act as well as various phobias."

Are you saying you think he's asexual? If so, I completely disagree. I also disagree that he hadn't thought about marriage until after colonization. He himself brought it up in S7 finale. He blew up at her and mentioned getting engaged, get a little house, start a family, enjoy their sunset years together.

Amy never once brought any of those things up with him before then. So why would he bring them up.....unless he himself had thought about it before?

Exactly!! He's brought it up plenty of times out of the blue. He obviously has it on his mind some of the time.....

I hate labels so I am most definitely not going to put one on these characters , and I think that a behavior can manifest itself for a number of different reasons (but if you want my take on the whole asexual debate, I wrote a post here a long while ago: ). But, regardless of the reason why, the truth of the matter is that Sheldon has always behaved by showing disinterest in and/or dislike of the idea of engaging in sex in the past. Why that is, it's everyone's guess and I'm sure there's tons of possible interpretations (short of the domestic abuse ones, which I really do not believe are supported by any canon!). But I think we can all agree that that was the case in the past and that his attitude towards it has changed and is changing dramatically in recent times, because of Amy ("Before I met you, I never had any interest in being intimate with anyone"). All I'm saying is that there has never been any evidence on screen that Sheldon's attitude towards sex had anything to do with marriage and his views on marriage, rather than other reasons that have been depicted plenty.

I also never said Sheldon never brought up marriage or sex or thought of marriage of sex on his own. What I said is that he ridiculed the concepts. Thinking about something is one thing. Wanting it is another. That has also obviously changed, and he does appear to want them now, but we have plenty of lines in the past where he did mock them. My point was that if he once ridiculed the concept of marriage, at least when it came to himself, it makes little sense to claim that marriage is a factor he somehow held or still holds to be important when it comes to deciding about whether to have sex or not.

[keie]

 I think honestly it's a mixture of his phobias as well as Mary's religious teachings. I mean he practically says so in the episode where he see's Mary having sex with a man. He flat out says he occupies the moral high ground AND says that her having sex with the man conflicts with everything she has espoused from the bible over the years.

 

So in all fairness I think it's a mixture of both where Sheldon is concerned. It's his phobias (touch and cleanliness) and his mothers influence over his life.  

Edited April 30, 2015 by keie

[Kathy2611]

I think honestly it's a mixture of his phobias as well as Mary's religious teachings. I mean he practically says so in the episode where he see's Mary having sex with a man. He flat out says he occupies the moral high ground AND says that her having sex with the man conflicts with everything she has espoused from the bible over the years.

So in all fairness I think it's a mixture of both where Sheldon is concerned. It's his phobias (touch and cleanliness) and his mothers influence over his life.

I agree his phobias are a problem but I don't think Mary has as big an influence on him as she used to. I think that's what the whole mommy observation episode was about.

If Mary can't practice what she preaches, why the hell should he. Especially when he doesn't even believe in the things she does regarding religion.

I think that episode was just one of the barriers the writers knocked down. Now religion and his mothers influence are no longer obstacles regarding Shamy having sex.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Kathr2611

[cassidyeden]

I'm pretty sure we are all excited to see the Shamy make-out in the Season 8 finale!:D I'm just nervous about how long Amy will need a break. Hope they don't drag it out. Do you guys think they will drag this out? Is the ''break'' the thing the Yahoo article was talking about when they said ''the end of Shamy''?

Edited April 30, 2015 by cassidyeden

[Guest]

I hate labels so I am most definitely not going to put one on these characters , and I think that a behavior can manifest itself for a number of different reasons (but if you want my take on the whole asexual debate, I wrote a post here a long while ago: ). But, regardless of the reason why, the truth of the matter is that Sheldon has always behaved by showing disinterest in and/or dislike of the idea of engaging in sex in the past. Why that is, it's everyone's guess and I'm sure there's tons of possible interpretations (short of the domestic abuse ones, which I really do not believe are supported by any canon!). But I think we can all agree that that was the case in the past and that his attitude towards it has changed and is changing dramatically in recent times, because of Amy ("Before I met you, I never had any interest in being intimate with anyone"). All I'm saying is that there has never been any evidence on screen that Sheldon's attitude towards sex had anything to do with marriage and his views on marriage, rather than other reasons that have been depicted plenty.

I also never said Sheldon never brought up marriage or sex or thought of marriage of sex on his own. What I said is that he ridiculed the concepts. Thinking about something is one thing. Wanting it is another. That has also obviously changed, and he does appear to want them now, but we have plenty of lines in the past where he did mock them. My point was that if he once ridiculed the concept of marriage, at least when it came to himself, it makes little sense to claim that marriage is a factor he somehow held or still holds to be important when it comes to deciding about whether to have sex or not.

 

Okay, I'm gonna give my take on this.

 

I don't think Sheldon is asexual at all. I think he's got this weird complex about himself and his work. I've known a few geniuses in my life. I mean, I grew up with this kid who was doing calculus in SIXTH GRADE. I remember sitting in the same algebra 2 class with him. We were friends. He looked up to me. I remember his behavior - he behaved strangely. I mean, this kid, when he wasn't doing high - end math and MATHCOUNTS and AMC 10/12 (If you don't know what those are, here's a link: http://www.maa.org/math-competitions),was doing crazy stuff like flipping couches and whipping through books in 30 minutes. Back to the topic - these people who are REALLY gifted - they're different. They display their emotions a little differently, and that's okay. 

 

I honestly think that this whole "marriage and physical intimacy are complete hogwash" thing that Sheldon puts up is a facade. It's his way of saying that he can be independent. Because he's dedicated his life to physics, because he's dedicated himself to a higher way of thinking - he is trying to convince himself he isn't like everyone else. That he's somehow different because of his work. He also wasn't willing to explore that at the time because he wanted to continue pursuing science and he knew that it would hinder him (at the time). So, because he is a bit egocentric, he decided, instead of admitting that he did have a weakness, he instead tried to dehumanize himself and convinced the world around him - even convincing himself - that he did not need that physical affection. This eventually was blown out of proportion. Because he was afraid of these emotions, and he considered them a weakness, he attempted hide them from the world. Why was he so afraid? I think it's from his parents. He saw how his mother and father were - how his mother actually tried to love his father at the beginning, and she ended up getting hurt, because George didn't return that love. He saw that as a child, and he didn't want that to happen to him, too. So he hid. And hid. And convinced himself that he didn't need what everyone else needed, love.

 

But then.... he met Amy. And Amy began to make him remember what love is about, that he needs love. She reminded him that love is not a weakness, but a strength. And, because he's hidden behind this facade of no emotion for most of his adult life, he's adjusting to it. Sure, it took 5 years. But his fear of weakness is displayed in moments such as 'I didn't want to call Amy because I didn't want her to think I'd failed.', and how he faced his weakness and tried to convince himself that he was invulnerable to it, in the Locomotive Manipulation, where anger turned into enjoyment. It was that moment that started his progression towards where he is now. When he cracked, and left in 7.24, he ran from what he considered his weaknesses. And he came back changed, ready to embrace what Amy Farrah Fowler had to throw at him.

 

And, he also physically embraced her, too. 

[kimbee73]

I agree his phobias are a problem but I don't think Mary has as big an influence on him as she used to. I think that's what the whole mommy observation episode was about.

If Mary can't practice what she preaches, why the hell should he. Especially when he doesn't even believe in the things she does regarding religion.

I think that episode was just one of the barriers the writers knocked down. Now religion and his mothers influence are no longer and obstacles regarding Shamy having sex.

This is exactly what I thought when this episode aired. I think that regardless of whether it was said or not, he was raised in a very religious home. His mom has a huge impact on him whether he believes what she does or not. So I think in the way back of his mind he may have thought about waiting until marriage but after he saw his mother, he realized he was on the higher moral ground. That to me showed there was some influence but now he knows she can't tell him what he is doing is wrong because she did the exact same thing.

I absolutely think the main reason he hasn't has always been his phobias which are slowly being weaned away from him.

I mean how many times does he now take the bus to get to Amy's apartment for date night?

So I think he is slowly letting his guard down.

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[kazzie]

Promo T-23 hours.

[rachelshamyfan]

Oh I hope the kiss is in the promo!

http://littlelumpofwool.tumblr.com/post/117710128358/amy-scene-in-next-episode

823 promo with Amy

Edited April 30, 2015 by rachelshamyfan

[Susana Alcira]

My dear SHAMIES:

Unless Mayim Bialik leaves the show, thing HIGHLY UNLIKELY, because she has a contract for two more seasons and because she loves TBBT and her work,

SHAMY will not end! Period.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Susana Alcira

[kazzie]

Oh I hope the kiss is in the promo!

http://littlelumpofwool.tumblr.com/post/117710128358/amy-scene-in-next-episode

823 promo with Amy

 

That scene was filmed before they started filming the finale.. They were Snogging literally 15 mins after filming this...

[rachelshamyfan]

I love the smile that Sheldon gives Amy

Edited April 30, 2015 by rachelshamyfan

[xxmimiaxx]

Another element of the kiss that I'd like to mention is the fact that it is the first SIK that is seated. To me, there is an inherent statement in this.  A standing kiss allows Sheldon greater freedom to "conclude and leave." However, a sit-down kiss (make-out session) says, "I'm here for a while and I intend to enjoy myself." I had hoped that we would see a seated SIK this season because I sensed we would see this motivation played out, and I believe we did.

Not to mention the equal height difference too. Every other kiss has had sheldon towering over amy and making it harder for amy to do much as she would need to be on tippy toes to meet his lips or he would need to awkwardly bend over slightly to meet hers. On the couch now it'll be at an equal level so it'll be more mutual and freeing them to do more with the make out since the height difference is gone  

[Retroluv]

I opened this at work.. BAD idea.

If that dramatic article is true.. It could be linked to any couple in the show... Raj and Emily or example.. and dare I say Lenny?

I really don't think yahoo has any more information than we do. They're just going for dramatic effect. What I'm waiting for is all the post-finale interviews...that's where we'll get a better sense of where they're going with all of this. I wonder if they'll give us any clues as to how long the "break" might last...you know people are going to ask!

There will also be predictable casual-viewer-reporter questions, like "Is this a real break up? Are the Shamy done for good?

And there is only one acceptable/reasonable/believable/conceivable/possible answer to that question:

I don't need to tell you lovely Shamies what that answer is. 2 episodes, max. Are you reading this Steve? Two.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Retroluv

[Janet]

OMG, one week for the Shamy makeout and 'break'. I'm gonna die.

[jenafan]

Lio's answer to all:

Do you think it's funny that you have a pace of the snail when your hero is the fastest man on earth? It's been 5 years and all I've gotten is one distracted make out session on the couch.

I think that the line was very deliberately inserted to inform the audience that what we just saw in the cold open was well and truly Sheldon and Amy's first real make out session.

.... since Amy says that that make out session on the couch was "all she's gotten in 5 years," I think this is the writers being very clear: ......you have not been missing any hot Shamy make out sessions off-screen or anything, we have not been forsaking you, this was really the first time they started getting hot and heavy like this, and you get to see it on-screen.

I am in total agreement, Lio.

Unfortunately, we don't get to see what lead up to the moment where they meet in the middle of the couch and start going at it. Was it the end of date night, and their normal chaste kiss evolved? Was it a negotiation as is typical for them? Did Sheldon initiate? Whatever the case, Amy felt comfortable enough to be fully engaged with her arms around him and kissing back.

While I understand that Sheldon threw cold water on the moment so -to- speak by his question, she is the one who refused to get back in the heat by stopping him from kissing her again. After all, he did say the show was "one" of the things he was thinking about.

I liked what another commenter said that The Flash probably came to Sheldon's mind because the pace of their physical relationship was speeding up and his brain drew a comparison. Yes, he was thinking about Amy by wanting her opinion, but perhaps the question was his subconscious effort to apply the brakes as a means of self-control but still wanting to be engaged in their "foreplay".

I appreciate that Amy is very sexually frustrated, not of sex itself, but with the desire to be completely 100% emotionally and physically with Sheldon. However, because she is not convinced that he wants it, she sabotaged the moment. Rather than allowing him to show her that he wanted to continue kissing her, she overreacted. I agree with Sheldon that she is the one who killed the mood.

I am disappointed that Amy forgot at that moment who the man she loves is. Sheldon's brain is always on the move, and while he might be contemplating watching a TV show, he could very well have been planning the proposal in his head and enjoying this new experience with Amy as well. Perhaps the pending proposal was what put him in the mood to make out.

Amy knows Sheldon has no filters and says the wrong thing at inappropriate times and that his brain operates like a Chinchilla. She knows physical contact has been difficult for him. Why she can't see that the couch tryst was a major milestone on his part to show that not only is he becoming more open to a physical relationship with her, but is also enjoying it, baffles me. Obviously, she is too inexperienced to look down to see the evidence of her effect on him.

Amy must realize that Sheldon is never going to be typical romantic. He has his own way of expressing endearment, and I hope she can embrace that side of him again. She did with the RA, emergency contact, mushroom log, etc. It seems fantasy, exhaustion, and frustation have temporarily won out. She has lost her footing where Sheldon is concerned.

My heart goes out to Sheldon on this one, but I do look forward to the role reversal where he is going to have to convince her that he wants her as much as she wants him and that this is all a misunderstanding due to lack of communication from both of them about their feelings.

[Cara meli]

A little off-topic but take a look at this review: 

 

http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/big-bang-theory-communication-deterioration-gradua-218493

 

"Amy has long been the counterbalance to Bernadette’s shrill critic; she’s the one who empathizes with the guys (because she’s just like them), but also wants to see them become better people. For instance, she obviously wants Sheldon to get over his intimacy issues, but she doesn’t make fun of him or yell at him for being stubborn or childish. Instead, she uses empathy to create trust, and therefore intimacy. That kind of heart is something the show needs, something that’s missing with every story that doesn’t include Amy."

[rachelshamyfan]

A mushroom log gift is exactly why I love this couple, so quirky and hilarious

[teletalk101]

Going back to an earlier discussion...

 

In terms of Sheldon's views on sex, I believe they were largely influenced by Mary. When you are brought up in a strictly religious household, the lessons you are taught as a child often stick, even if you don't agree with them. Subconsciously, Sheldon probably felt pre-marital sex was not something to practice, and as he was already disinterested in the act (which I'm sure there are plenty of factors which contributed to this), it was easy for him to adhere.

 

Amy is the first woman who has ever shown a deep, sexual desire for him, which I imagine has had an impact on Sheldon slowly over time. He would feel conflicted over whether to obey his upbringing or to divert from that and partake in coitus. The episode where he catches Mary engaged in pre-marital sex was a game changer. It sent the message that you can't always fight desire and I think basically gave Sheldon the permission he needed to progress his physical relationship with Amy. The fact that it aired after the first SIK and the dining table episode, both important in the Shamy plot, is something worth noting. 

 

I think The Mommy Observation, coupled with The Anything Can Happen Reoccurance and The Status Quo Combustion, set up the trajectory for Season 8 where we saw Sheldon becoming more intimate with Amy. All their milestones happened in a very short time when compared to their entire relationship. And Season 8, of course, sets up the parameters necessary for coitus to occur in Season 9.

[Chelle]

For some reason, I wouldn't like to have the Shamy makeout as a promo video. I don't know, that's just me I guess. The anticipation to see it in action builds up the excitement and shock value, especially this episode has "Shamy shock value" on opposite sides of the spectrum.

[wowbagger]

On the subject of Sheldon's sex drive and how much can be attributed to his upbringing:

 

I agree with koops, primarily because of Occam's Razor again: let's make as few assumptions as we need for a consistent explanation.

 

Yes, Sheldon's lack of sexual activity could be linked to his religious upbringing, but I don't think we need to theorise that to make sense of his behaviour.

 

Sheldon's sexual activity (or lack thereof) could have a really, really simple explanation: he wasn't that interested before. It doesn't mean that he is incapable of sexual interest, just that whatever interest he may have had (if any) wasn't high enough to bother him. By 'bother', I mean, 'bother him enough to learn how to respond to a sexual overture, and still less to learn how to make a sexual overture and follow through on it.'

 

And why would it? He's brilliant, he's ambitious, and he has pop-culture interests that absorb him. 

 

I don't recall him betraying-even unconsciously- unhappiness or wistfulness about his single life. I think Sheldon was genuinely quite happy to be single and celibate. I don't think it's implausible that he felt very little flicker of interest before he met Amy. I don't mean that in an 'oh, isn't it romantic?' way. I mean that Sheldon has very specific sexual interests, and until Amy he hadn't met anyone who interested him that way. I don't think he was unhappy about it*, I just think it hadn't happened. 

 

* And neither was Amy, until the show retconned Amy's past.

[kimbee73]

Going back to an earlier discussion...

In terms of Sheldon's views on sex, I believe they were largely influenced by Mary. When you are brought up in a strictly religious household, the lessons you are taught as a child often stick, even if you don't agree with them. Subconsciously, Sheldon probably felt pre-marital sex was not something to practice, and as he was already disinterested in the act (which I'm sure there are plenty of factors which contributed to this), it was easy for him to adhere.

Amy is the first woman who has ever shown a deep, sexual desire for him, which I imagine has had an impact on Sheldon slowly over time. He would feel conflicted over whether to obey his upbringing or to divert from that and partake in coitus. The episode where he catches Mary engaged in pre-marital sex was a game changer. It sent the message that you can't always fight desire and I think basically gave Sheldon the permission he needed to progress his physical relationship with Amy. The fact that it aired after the first SIK and the dining table episode, both important in the Shamy plot, is something worth noting.

I think The Mommy Observation, coupled with The Anything Can Happen Reoccurance and The Status Quo Combustion, set up the trajectory for Season 8 where we saw Sheldon becoming more intimate with Amy. All their milestones happened in a very short time when compared to their entire relationship. And Season 8, of course, sets up the parameters necessary for coitus to occur in Season 9.

Exactly! They moved so slow for 3 seasons and this year, bam! ILYs, handholding, hugs, sleepovers and making out.

I think Sheldon still has some fears but not as many as we all think.

I mean he has a ring! He is ready. I would hope he doesn't think marriage isn't going to include coitus, he's not stupid.

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[Little Miss Purple]

Did you watch the sneak peak?Amy doesn't look too happy with Sheldon

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiVsDxiX-Xk

[Cherry]

It's been a week now since the report, and I stick to my first reaction although I read everything on this thread.

 

Like Wowbager, I don't buy the story.

 

Let's recap all the wrongs that Sheldon did that Amy was aware of:

 

1. He left for 45 days without telling her, and without saying her goodbye. Problem resolved, we don't know how, but well...

2. When forced to stop his trip, he calls Leonard first. Problem resolved quite easily by admitting he didn't want her to think the less of him. OK.

3. When trying to keep his anxiety level high, he totally ruined their date night. Problem resolved, we don't know how.

4. He filled in an application to live on Mars without telling or asking her, thus considering living on another planet without her, all the while trying to adopt a turtle with her. Problem resolved, even though a bit too quickly...

5. He says something stupid while making out with her. She decides to have a break.

 

Isn't there something that bugs you?

 In my opinion, going on a trip without saying goodbye or filling in an application to colonize Mars is WAY worse than a stupid line while making out. So she's OK with the first two, but she needs a break with the third... oO

It doesn't make sense at all. He would have deserved a break when he came back from his trip, or just after the mars application, but what he did that night was not worth of such drama.

I feel like a parrot repeating the same thing over and over, but it is total overreacting from Amy's part. She should have been on cloud nine with the making out. Him not thinking only of her is making her upset, OK, it kills the mood, she doesn't want to carry on, and decides to end the date night at that moment. OK.

 

But her comment about the pace of their relationship is coming from nowhere. They've made big progress, and she isn't happy? Wow. Sorry, but on that point, I feel more for Sheldon, her comment is so depressing and unfair. It feels like whatever he does, he just can't make her happy. Never. Always wanting more and more. If I were Sheldon, I would feel demotivated. And that's maybe why he asks Gollum about the ring: maybe he feels less sure about what to do next.

 

As for Sheldon chasing her to win her over, sorry but in that context, I don't agree at all. Because her reaction is over the top and I feel that Sheldon doesn't deserve what's happening to him, I don't want him to chase her. It would be really disappointing if he did so in that context, all the more that she explicitely asked him for time and space to think. She has to be the one who moves first. 

Edited April 30, 2015 by Cherry