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[Spoilers]Shamy S8 Thread


rachelshamyfan

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I agree that it would be nice for one time to tell Amy's part of the story, her feelings, her insecurities, her fears rather than those of Sheldon. Unfortunely, this is not going to happen. All the girls but penny are minor characters, they have less lines (and far away less salaries) than the "boys"...their stories are, as somebody else here said, just tools to tell the stories of the main characters.... as Shamy fans we can only hope that the story writers are telling us now about Sheldon has some clues about how amy feels in this relatinship and how her personal growth influenced it

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i have a good feeling that next season will have more open communication between sheldon and amy in terms of their true feelings toward each other. Yes in the past they have been quite reserved with revealing their emotions and deeper feelings with each other but the way the show seems to be unfolding now in terms of story line really screams to me emotional intimacy (and of course physical eventually too haha) :p i mean *ahem* proposal...that will be an amazing episode for all of this stuff haha 

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On the subject of the 8x23 promo, just because my homegirl Amy wished Sheldon gives her flowers, doesn't necessarily mean it makes her less nerd, or too feminine.Stereotyping character based on their interests, which is as FLEETING as the weather makes me go "huh?". It sounds very judgmental to me. The "hearts, flowers, and chocolates" couple in the show should and would have been Koothrappali and Emily, only Emily is not into romantic frou-frou and would rather have a picnic in a graveyard. It never crossed my mind that just because she wanted flowers made her lesser than the girl who thinks Relationship Agreement is romantic. Just because there has been growth as fast as snail in her relationship with Sheldon, but still she got pissed when all she got is a distracted makeout session, doesn't make her less nerdy or less understanding/patient with Sheldon. I wouldn't like her character to be borderline emotional MASOCHISTIC; some emotional realism makes her relatable. Her character growth doesn't look too drastic or out of line. The only time I would be really concerned is if she turns her into a wolverine version 2.0 ala Bernadette.

 

It was not the wanting flowers that bugged me as much as the dismissal of the log. No, liking flowers does not make her less quirky, nerdy or unique. Dismissing the log, however, which is such a random, hilarious, yet thoughtful gift, kind of does to me (although maybe it is an old-married-couple bickering thing; I just didn't get that impression). Similarly, it's not desiring to be desired that makes her any less of an interesting character or less patient. She is human and has the right to feel loved and appreciated in her relationship as much as Sheldon does. I am can totally buy her hurt and insecurity in the case of the makeout, or D&D night, or the Mars application. But when her demands for attention take very specific forms of conventional romance that she never manifested any interest in before, and these demands come out of the blue without any explanation like they did in 6x01, for example, I do do a double take and I wonder "where did THAT come from?". 

 

Having said that, like I said before, I do think her development does make sense with some fill-in-the-gaps and headcanoning. I just wish it were explored. I do think Amy is treated way better as a character than even Leonard at times, to be honest. I don't think it's got anything to do with her being a secondary character, because she *does* get her own storylines every once in a while, be it for herself (like with Bert or Emily) or with the girls. Whereas, let's face it, Leonard has essentially been sadly relegated to waiting for Penny to marry him and playing foil to Sheldon's antics. That's why I say that if they can have her own occasional storylines when it comes to other aspects of her life, it would be nice to see that in her relationship with Sheldon too. It would actually make things more interesting, IMO, than just rehashing the same stuff about "Amy pushes, Sheldon drags his heels". And give Sheldon something new to do in the relationship as well. 

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The thing is, I actually think this could make for such an interesting exploration of Amy's character! I can totally headcanon the reasons for her bipolar attitude towards romance, mixing together her inexperience, exposure to her friends, not having wanted this in the past and now trying to find her footing as to *what* it is that she wants. There would be SOOOOO much to explore with that, and it would be so fascinating to watch Amy navigate through this confusion to finally achieve the type of romance that works for her. But, sadly, I think she's still at the mercy of whatever they want to do with Sheldon and so will get her to react accordingly when they need to make a point about how much of a jerk Sheldon is and/or how much he's progressed.

 

I was talking to Lio this morning and I was saying how much I would love to see a more well-rounded exploration of this romance. One where for every step we see Sheldon take to embrace Amy's needs a desires, we see Amy refine her expectations and desires to something that is "custom made" for them. One where we see Sheldon rub off on Amy as much as we see Amy rub off on Sheldon, rather than just him (slowly) moving forward and her waiting. 

 

 

I just couldn't agree more. I love that she is not some template, stereotype caricature. Her character is complicated, sometimes confusing but for that, interesting, that's what I'm intrigued in. I don't have to see character like any other, but then, there lies this huge potential and it almost seems like writers didn't noticed. Whenever Mayim have material for herself she's stealing the scene. And still, she's most of the time just seconding to Sheldon. Writer could finally realize there is a lot of people who are HER fans. Not just as part of relationship with Sheldon, but the person. I know her contract says supporting, but I don't think that means that the character shouldn't have any story for himself.That we shouldn't have a look at her personality, what motivates the character, what the background is or her dreams, her own point of view, and it would offer better view to her relationship with Sheldon as well. And with interesting character like Amy it really would be just soooo wonderful to explore. But than again, first there would have to be will on writers side to modify their own pattern - Amy being here to move Sheldon forward. And as you said Sheldon slowly moving, Amy waiting. 

I actually think  this season finale is great opportunity. I think it could be catalyst for something like this. I think there is chance we get to see Amy's part of the story, and frankly I would love to see Amy admitting and appreciating Sheldon's contribution and progress in their relationship instead of complaining it's still not fast enough.  And I think there is ground made for Sheldon who can take her desires and needs seriously and together, meet each other half way and help each other to find the way that suits them both, with fair share of sacrifices and benefits. That's not something that can be done over night, but I would be very much happy if they were heading that way - to balance, happiness in their own terms and mutual respect. 

Sadly I also see how this opportunity can be...well... screwed up. But one can always hope :)

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On the subject of the 8x23 promo, just because my homegirl Amy wished Sheldon gives her flowers, doesn't necessarily mean it makes her less nerd, or too feminine.Stereotyping character based on their interests, which is as FLEETING as the weather makes me go "huh?". It sounds very judgmental to me. 

 

Just to clarify: it's not wanting romance that makes Amy less of a nerd, or 'too feminine' (and indeed what does it even mean to be 'too feminine'?) I was concerned initially to rebut the assertion that being female impels you to certain behaviours.

 

And secondly, as koops points out, it's her dismissal of Sheldon's gift that didn't make sense to me.  

a ) It could be old-married-couple bickering but I actually don't think Sheldon and Amy have that sort of dynamic yet, weirdly. They did once and then they lost it, and now they're finding a sort of wary accommodation, and

b ) It's the sort of quirky, off-kilteredly romantic gesture that I would expect nerdy Amy to appreciate.

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@Caffiene - I completely agree with you. Furthermore, I feel that there was a miscommunication here for very, very good reason. Neither party is to blame; I don't feel we're supposed to be taking sides here. I feel that this is a tragedy of timing. It is meant to wring our hearts out all summer, and make us wonder how it'll be resolved.

Sheldon says that he is thinking about the Flash, "amongst other things." You could consider that naughty things, since he apparently says it with a smile and goes in for another kiss, but doesn't this probably also relate to the fact that he just bought an engagement ring? Neither Amy or the audience realizes it at the time, but Sheldon has decided he wants to marry Amy and has bought a ring. It's their 5 year anniversary, they are all dressed up, and....it's possible he was planning to propose that evening. Isn't it understandable why his mind would be zinging around like crazy? He loves her, he's kissing her, he wants to marry her, he has to figure out what he's going to say when he proposes, he's nervous and excited - his mind was probably going a million miles an hour. And he wants to surprise her, so he can't tell her everything on his mind, he just teases her about "other things" and thinks SHE is the one who spoiled the mood.

As for Amy, she has no idea of any of this, so she has no reason to think Sheldon might be extra anxious or emotional. To her, his distraction is a real blow, and like I have said, it knocks her from Cloud 9 on a subject matter that she's still insecure and vulnerable about. She is hurt, and she lashes out about the area of their relationship which frustrates her and that she's always trying to be patient and understanding abut even if it doesn't quite work for her. She tells herself she loves him and he's trying in those times she's sexually or romantically frustrated, or when she's frustrated about the pace of the relationship or him being childish. And what's been hammered home this season is that she just wants him to factor her into his decisions and plans for the future. She's standing right there, willing and able to live wth him while he's crying over Leonard and saying he can't picture his life without Leonard there. She is SO happy about the turtle, but he blows that by getting himself bitten, and drops the information about going off to Mars without her. Which she has to fight him about.

So look....just at the time Sheldon decides he wants her to be his future, she's lost patience with waiting,for him to see that. And she literally loses patience within minutes, an hour, of being proposed to. And then it's heartbreaking to see Sheldon NOT GET IT - why did she go from kissy face to frowny face? Why can't he reach her? He's going crazy without her!

And then how painfully upset they both are when Amy says she needs time to think. That sometimes he's difficult and she wants some space. They are both in anguish when they end their talk, and then they hit us with the big reveal: Sheldon had a ring. He was ready.

*tears* These two will be the death of me.

I see both their perspectives. It makes perfect sense to me. The tears they cry, I bleed for them both. and most importantly: THIS IS A CLFFHANGER. THIS IS NOT OVER.

No way is it over. In fact, I think it just took a very, very interesting twist. Is Season 9 here yet?

I understand some people feel the dialogue isn't elegant or that this is jarring, but I actually feel that it makes sense, requires some thought, and is not anvilicious. You have to apply the information about the engagement ring at the end to understand Sheldon's behavior in the beginning, why he's so fervent about the kissing, why he's so flirty and happy, why he would be nervous and distracted, and then so devastated and in a panic when things went wrong. You have to note that Amy is specifically thinking of the length of time of their relationship - "I can't believe it's been 5 years" - and is not a mind reader.

So it works for me. I get it, especially the timing. And most of all, it has me hooked for next season already.

Edited by Lionne
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Lio and Caffiene you are both 100% correct.  No more sides, if so, this is gonna be a LONG>>>>>> hiatus!! 

 

We all love both parts of this ship, and they both have strengths/faults in their relationship and like I wrote earlier once they do reconcile its not an apology situation needed.....

 

They WILL grow from this.  Will the finale be difficult especially coming from the cold open HIGH to the tag LOW...of course.  A kick to the gut...BUT the writers wouldn't do this without having a larger picture in mind.  With an almost deadline will you of two more season (yes...could go on longer but I'm pretty sure they are working with 10 and done) they now have to get things rolling.  And to get these two to the altar/bed/etc steps have to be taken to make it believable.  They have said it numerous times, the writers really take their time and handle Shamy with major TLC.  They know its a crowd pleaser and they want to get it right.  So far in the big picture they haven't failed us. 

Edited by kerrycec03
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@Lio and that's exactly what I'm driving at. This isn't a situation where one is right over the other. Its actually a tragic, tragic symptom of them not sharing their innermost thoughts on all things. That's why its so sad, cause they both want the same thing essentially but THEY HAVEN'T WORKED UP THE NERVE TO JUST FUCKING TELL EACH OTHER! They've been building this same theme all season. All their little conflicts, interactions have had that same recurring thing: one is always ASSUMING what the other one is thinking and feeling instead of just up and having that honest conversation.

I really, really hope that within the first 2 episodes, that initial conversation to clear the air happens. Because until it does, until all the cards are on the table from both of them, no amount of chasing on Sheldon's part or understanding and patience on Amy's part is going to do squat. They can bandaid this one all they want, but until that true open communication happens between them, they'll be right back at square one the minute one of them makes the mistake of assuming instead of asking.

I think this is why, as much as I love where this is going for next season, my stomach is in knots cause its going to mean some difficult conversations first. I'm going to both love and hate this finale cause its going to skyrocket me to cloud nine for the makeout, then torpedo me into the ground with that tag. Then you catapult me back up showing me he has a ring. I mean Goddamnit! My heart aches for them both to be honest.

Ugh... This is a damned comedy show. Its not supposed to mess with my emotions this much. Damn you Molaro & Co. indeed! Gimme season 9 now, seriously.

Edited by CaffeineBuzz
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I see both their perspectives. It makes perfect sense to me. The tears they cry, I bleed for them both. and most importantly: TGIS IS A CLFFHANGER. THIS IS NOT OVER.

No way is it over. In fact, I think it just took a very, very interesting twist. Is Season 9 here yet?

 

Exactly.  This is not over by a LONG shot.  I think CaffeineBuzz was very on point with her observations.  This cliffhanger is going to be the thing that gets them on the same page.  Once she discovers that Sheldon really IS in the mindframe of wanting her--that he sees his future with her for the rest of his life, and that he does desire her physically (because I truly think they're setting things up for him to reveal that as well), and once he realizes that that was really all she needed, they will be just fine.  I think that in the end, this cliffhanger the writers have left us with is going to be the best thing for their relationship.  They'll have a whole new understanding of one another and they'll be able to move forward together in their relationship. 

Season 9 simply can't come fast enough.

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Every woman in the whole world wants flowers from the man she loves!

and when she sees the man she loves gives his mother a beautiful bunch of yellow roses , when he never has given her a single flower(White, red, yellow, any flower....!?)

I understand Amy and her reaction about the revaluation and the space a little more! ( It is not only the Flash stuff!!)

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I think I am going to sound like a broken record here because this seems to be going in the direction of Sheldon has to chase her.

I don't agree. I think she just wants a day or two to think about what she needs to say to him.

I have no doubt this will not last just like all the other stuff it will be resolved.

She just wants to feel wanted and she needs to tell him that. I thought at first it was the straw that broke the camels back but the more I think about it, I think it is just frustration on her part at that particular moment. She wants to know he is not doing this just because she wants it.

I think they will have an adult conversation about how she feels and then they will be fine.

I

I like this even better

I agree with both Caffiene and Lio but I am not an essayist I am more into quick quips.

#itwillonlylastanepisode

Edited by boys3allc
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I like this even better

#itwillonlylastanepisode

 

 

I don't think Sheldon and Amy will be able to stay away from each other for long.  They'll both go nuts, particularly Sheldon.  ;)  Typically too, the cliffhangers are usually resolved by episode 2 or 3, so I can see them maybe stretching it out that far, but I would think they would reconcile by then.  I could be wrong, but if you look at all the other stories they have to tell about the other characters in the space of those 24 episodes, I don't see them dragging that out too much.  The proposal though, that could come at any time.  My guess right now is possibly November sweeps.  Since we know he has the ring already, they might as well not alienate the audience by making them/us wait forever.  But who knows?  It could even be when they reconcile.  My guess is that just as season 8 was a build toward all the emotional milestones, season 9 will be a build toward the physical aspects of their relationship.  My main question is whether coitus will happen sometime during the season or if they'll leave us with that as a cliffhanger where we won't find out for sure if they did it until the season 10 premiere.

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Every woman in the whole world wants flowers from the man she loves!

and when she sees the man she loves gives his mother a beautiful bunch of yellow roses , when he never has given her a single flower(White, red, yellow, any flower....!?)

I understand Amy and her reaction about the revaluation and the space a little more! ( It is not only the Flash stuff!!)

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree here. I'm a woman, and I'm perfectly happy that my husband has never bought me flowers in my whole life! I really don't see the sense in it, and I'm glad he understands. Why should I put dead cut-up stuff in a vase when it's so much nicer to walk through nature watching them grow?

I would be thrilled about a mushroom log, that's such an ingenious idea! I will just pretend I didn't understand the sarcasm and that Amy really loved the log!

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I don't think Sheldon and Amy will be able to stay away from each other for long. They'll both go nuts, particularly Sheldon. ;) Typically too, the cliffhangers are usually resolved by episode 2 or 3, so I can see them maybe stretching it out that far, but I would think they would reconcile by then. I could be wrong, but if you look at all the other stories they have to tell about the other characters in the space of those 24 episodes, I don't see them dragging that out too much. The proposal though, that could come at any time. My guess right now is possibly November sweeps. Since we know he has the ring already, they might as well not alienate the audience by making them/us wait forever. But who knows? It could even be when they reconcile. My guess is that just as season 8 was a build toward all the emotional milestones, season 9 will be a build toward the physical aspects of their relationship. My main question is whether coitus will happen sometime during the season or if they'll leave us with that as a cliffhanger where we won't find out for sure if they did it until the season 10 premiere.

Oh, dear God NO!!!! No more cliffhangers for Shamy, Sheldon or Amy. We already had two in a row! Give the damn cliffhanger to somebody else for a change.

Let Howardette have one. Like having Bernie look at a pregnancy stick but we won't know if it's positive or negative until the next season.

I think Shamy will get resolved within one or two episodes and like you said, ShamyShipper, they won't be able to stay away from each other the whole summer so timeline wise, I think when S9 starts, their time will still be May (we still need to find out if Lenny made it to Vegas or not AND went through it or backed out). Then with episodes (2)3 & 4, quickly jump ahead to match "reality" time wise (hope that makes sense).

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I am loving the convo guys :)

 

Anyway, my ideal scenario would be: a surprising/original take on a reconciliation in 9x02 (after 9x01 explores Sheldon and Amy's separate turmoil, and Lenny's wedding/lack thereof), followed by a phase of resettling into their relationship with a new dynamic, maybe one where we explore Amy's side of the story more, followed by (am I being too daring here?) intercourse for the 200th ep and that ring making a reappearance in the last two episodes. Or swap these last two around, that would work too. I would not be opposed to a did they/didn't they cliffhanger about intercourse, but I frankly don't see the point of going there. I could have seen that work this season, but by the time we get to the end of S9 the likelihood of the answer being "they did" will be far too high to justify a cliffhanger. I don't know people would fall for it. 

 

eta: Oh, I forgot to say that one thing I LOVE about the finale is "Distressed Sheldon desperately trying to get in touch with Amy who won't answer". It's such a throwback to one of my absolute favorite moments in their relationship (5x08). There's nothing more endearing that worried Sheldon who can't settle until Amy picks up the phone.

Edited by koops
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Ha ha!  I agree with you about the cliffhangers, Kathr2611.  I think though that because Shamy really is their big cash cow now, it COULD happen again.  Hopefully not, and I think a cliffhanger with Howard and Bernadette is a great idea.  They really haven't been utilizing them all that much lately, aside from the plot with Howard's mother.

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I think the whole thing with the flowers is a minor point with Amy, but still kind of meaningful.  I think it has less to do with her being a girl=wanting flowers than it does with her being an outcast girl who always wanted a boyfriend and probaby imagined a boyfriend who would do all those cliche things she imagined, just as she said that there were things that showed the world you had a boyfriend who wasn't made up--sex tape, hickies and couples costumes, and the way she had originally planned an Valentines Day date that included going out for dinner and exchanging gifts, which is what most couples supposedly do.

In the case of the Valentines Day date, she realized she was trying to make Sheldon fit a mold he just didn't fit into--that of a traditional, cliche boyfriend--and she was able to work around that.

But that doesn't mean that she doesn't still want, on some level, that "normal boyfriend" that she has never had.  It's part of the function of the writing, to be sure, in going for quirky or going for juxtaposition of normal vs Sheldon, but I think that we've seen that part of her still wants all those things she felt she missed out on--going to prom, dancing with a date, "romantic" date nights, "romantic" gestures, long haired bare chested men riding bareback on horses...

 

But in reality, she had to settle for brain-stimulated orgasms and an electric toothbrush named Gerard.

 

So now she has a boyfriend and she certainly finds him attractive in her own Amy way--his sallow skin tone, his long lanky frame, his big bulbous brain, his ability to make brain diseases charming, his ability to optimize the deli section of a supermarket.

But for all the quirky things she loves, by her own quirky standards, I think there's still a part of her that can't quite let go of those fantasies about what it would be like once she got a boyfriend.  He would sweep her off her feet with romantic gestures, which include buying her flowers on Valentine's Day or taking her to a romantic restaurant, or making out on date night.

 

I also do not think we'll see much in the way of exploring such an idea, but I do think that she's been kind of torn between what she wants or has always envisioned, especially now that she has that social life and real life boyfriend, and the reality of the kind of person she's fallen in love with.

I think that it happens to a lot of women--you imagine your own version of Prince Charming, with whatever personality, likes/dislikes, hobbies you would like to share, but then when That Guy comes along, well, he may hit on some of your "must haves" but likely not on all of them.

 

I always fall back on my Jigsaw Puzzle metaphor when it comes to relationships, especially ones that come along for those of us who have been single for some time.

You have the puzzle of your life--your job, your home, your social circle, your hobbies--but you're missing this one piece.  It's that one piece that represents "Mr. Right".  You imagine that when he comes along, you can more or less just plug him into that empty spot, maybe shuffle a couple of your other pieces around, like where you live, but otherwise, you think he'll fit right into that shape that you've formed.

He, on the other hand, has his own puzzle, made up of all the pieces representing his life, including that empty spot for "Ms. Right".

 

So when you meet, you don't just plug one or the other into the existing space.

No matter how compatible you are, you're most likely going to end up tossing all your pieces together into one big pile and then starting over, building your puzzle with a combination of your friends and his friends, your family and his family, figuring out where you will live--your place or his place or some completely new place. 

 

In the end, your puzzle is likely to be completely different from how you imagined it.

 

I think the same is true for Sheldon and Amy.

 

Sheldon didn't even have a space for a girlfriend.  He's got one for a Nobel Prize, to be sure, waiting to plug in that piece.  And being as adverse to change as he is, he probably figured most of his puzzle was set for life.  He couldn't imagine Leonard moving out, he couldn't imagine working in any field but String Theory, he couldn't imagine a change to his pajama rotation, for pete's sake.

 

Amy had a space for a boyfriend, perhaps, but a sort of secret one that she had apparently given up on, or had forced a Gerard-shaped piece into.  She didn't seem to have even left a space for friends, because she seemed kind of shut down to the ambition to seek out new friends, probably from having been burned too often.

So when she meets Sheldon, and through him, the rest of the gang, she begins to dust off her puzzle and toss the pieces around with the new pieces labeled "Social Circle" and eventually, "Boyfriend".  But I think that, just as it took her a while to figure out the balance of her social circle, how to be a friend without "wearing out her welcome" or making unwanted gestures, it has taken her a while to figure out what the Boyfriend-shaped puzzle piece really looks like.

Whereas she may have wanted a romance novel sort of boyfriend, or one like she may have seen in movies or other books, what she got was a Sheldon, who has a hard time giving in to his feelings, even when they're there burning a hole in his heart.

 

I think it's true that she perhaps doesn't understand the depth of his struggle to reconcile himself as he once was to the self that is in love and is now becoming more physically intimate.  And maybe she hasn't made clear to Sheldon the clear truth of what she wants.

 

I think that many of us can be guilty of wanting another to figure out what we want, or what's hurting us without us having to spell it out.  I think that sometimes we want that other person to be able to intuit our feelings, maybe because it makes us feel too vulnerable to have to admit our needs or our hurts.

 

And I really don't like this whole "Sheldon needs to chase Amy!" or the idea--and this surfaced last season as well--that Amy needs to tear Sheldon a new one and make him stay away from her until he can "mend his ways."  I think that way of handling things is passive aggressive and unproductive.  There should be no "upper hand" in relationships.

And if Sheldon has seemed to have the upper hand between them, then that's wrong, too, but Amy shouldn't respond by trying to take that upper hand herself.  There should be no "hand".

 

I do think it's a matter of frustration and bad timing and perhaps Amy didn't spell things out clearly enough for him.  I just rewatched a couple of scenes from the Mars episode and Sheldon is so proud of himself and his Mars application video and expects Amy to enjoy it as much as he does--he wants her to laugh at the idea of Leonard blowing pie out of his nose.  When she says she's going home, he truly doesn't understand why.

When he confronts her on the stairs, he's still truly confused about what exactly she's mad about.

 

Sheldon can rarely intuit anything about another's emotional state.  He may understand that the other is mad or sad, but he doesn't always put two and two together, especially if those emotional clues are given in anything other than a straightforward manner.

 

Do I blame Amy?  Not really, given the information at her disposal.

But neither do I blame Sheldon.  He's not aware of whatever frustrations she may have, and if the Flash comment is just the last straw, well, he isn't aware there were any straws.

 

As I said above, I think that Amy can be guilty of trying to make Sheldon fit her puzzle space and she's not perfect, either.  Though she may be long-suffering in many ways when it comes to putting up with certain things about Sheldon, she also knows how to "play" him and manipulate him in some ways--the way she got him to not break up with her over the table, but instead got him to turn things around (until she "got cocky"), and the way she was again hoping for a typical romantic Valentines evening, trying to entice Sheldon by using the train.  She got him to agree with the train, but then she wanted him to be her dream boyfriend and thought that making him happy with the train setting would turn him into that cliche traditionally romantic boyfriend.

 

When it comes to that aspect of their relationship, Amy is vulnerable to expecting that, and Sheldon is clueless, for the most part, about what that means.  Whatever he feels for Amy--and we know it is love--he still doesn't feel the cliche gestures or doesn't find them meaningful, at least when it comes to her.

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I am loving the convo guys :)

 

Anyway, my ideal scenario would be: a surprising/original take on a reconciliation in 9x02 (after 9x01 explores Sheldon and Amy's separate turmoil, and Lenny's wedding/lack thereof), followed by a phase of resettling into their relationship with a new dynamic, maybe one where we explore Amy's side of the story more, followed by (am I being too daring here?) intercourse for the 200th ep and that ring making a reappearance in the last two episodes. Or swap these last two around, that would work too. I would not be opposed to a did they/didn't they cliffhanger about intercourse, but I frankly don't see the point of going there. I could have seen that work this season, but by the time we get to the end of S9 the likelihood of the answer being "they did" will be far too high to justify a cliffhanger. I don't know people would fall for it. 

 

eta: Oh, I forgot to say that one thing I LOVE about the finale is "Distressed Sheldon desperately trying to get in touch with Amy who won't answer". It's such a throwback to one of my absolute favorite moments in their relationship (5x08). There's nothing more endearing that worried Sheldon who can't settle until Amy picks up the phone.

 

Good point.  If they DO build up the physical side this coming season (which I really think they will) then the cliffhanger might not make sense.

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I think the whole thing with the flowers is a minor point with Amy, but still kind of meaningful.  I think it has less to do with her being a girl=wanting flowers than it does with her being an outcast girl who always wanted a boyfriend and probaby imagined a boyfriend who would do all those cliche things she imagined, just as she said that there were things that showed the world you had a boyfriend who wasn't made up--sex tape, hickies and couples costumes, and the way she had originally planned an Valentines Day date that included going out for dinner and exchanging gifts, which is what most couples supposedly do.

In the case of the Valentines Day date, she realized she was trying to make Sheldon fit a mold he just didn't fit into--that of a traditional, cliche boyfriend--and she was able to work around that.

But that doesn't mean that she doesn't still want, on some level, that "normal boyfriend" that she has never had.  It's part of the function of the writing, to be sure, in going for quirky or going for juxtaposition of normal vs Sheldon, but I think that we've seen that part of her still wants all those things she felt she missed out on--going to prom, dancing with a date, "romantic" date nights, "romantic" gestures, long haired bare chested men riding bareback on horses...

 

But in reality, she had to settle for brain-stimulated orgasms and an electric toothbrush named Gerard.

 

So now she has a boyfriend and she certainly finds him attractive in her own Amy way--his sallow skin tone, his long lanky frame, his big bulbous brain, his ability to make brain diseases charming, his ability to optimize the deli section of a supermarket.

But for all the quirky things she loves, by her own quirky standards, I think there's still a part of her that can't quite let go of those fantasies about what it would be like once she got a boyfriend.  He would sweep her off her feet with romantic gestures, which include buying her flowers on Valentine's Day or taking her to a romantic restaurant, or making out on date night.

 

I also do not think we'll see much in the way of exploring such an idea, but I do think that she's been kind of torn between what she wants or has always envisioned, especially now that she has that social life and real life boyfriend, and the reality of the kind of person she's fallen in love with.

I think that it happens to a lot of women--you imagine your own version of Prince Charming, with whatever personality, likes/dislikes, hobbies you would like to share, but then when That Guy comes along, well, he may hit on some of your "must haves" but likely not on all of them.

 

I always fall back on my Jigsaw Puzzle metaphor when it comes to relationships, especially ones that come along for those of us who have been single for some time.

You have the puzzle of your life--your job, your home, your social circle, your hobbies--but you're missing this one piece.  It's that one piece that represents "Mr. Right".  You imagine that when he comes along, you can more or less just plug him into that empty spot, maybe shuffle a couple of your other pieces around, like where you live, but otherwise, you think he'll fit right into that shape that you've formed.

He, on the other hand, has his own puzzle, made up of all the pieces representing his life, including that empty spot for "Ms. Right".

 

So when you meet, you don't just plug one or the other into the existing space.

No matter how compatible you are, you're most likely going to end up tossing all your pieces together into one big pile and then starting over, building your puzzle with a combination of your friends and his friends, your family and his family, figuring out where you will live--your place or his place or some completely new place. 

 

In the end, your puzzle is likely to be completely different from how you imagined it.

 

I think the same is true for Sheldon and Amy.

 

Sheldon didn't even have a space for a girlfriend.  He's got one for a Nobel Prize, to be sure, waiting to plug in that piece.  And being as adverse to change as he is, he probably figured most of his puzzle was set for life.  He couldn't imagine Leonard moving out, he couldn't imagine working in any field but String Theory, he couldn't imagine a change to his pajama rotation, for pete's sake.

 

Amy had a space for a boyfriend, perhaps, but a sort of secret one that she had apparently given up on, or had forced a Gerard-shaped piece into.  She didn't seem to have even left a space for friends, because she seemed kind of shut down to the ambition to seek out new friends, probably from having been burned too often.

So when she meets Sheldon, and through him, the rest of the gang, she begins to dust off her puzzle and toss the pieces around with the new pieces labeled "Social Circle" and eventually, "Boyfriend".  But I think that, just as it took her a while to figure out the balance of her social circle, how to be a friend without "wearing out her welcome" or making unwanted gestures, it has taken her a while to figure out what the Boyfriend-shaped puzzle piece really looks like.

Whereas she may have wanted a romance novel sort of boyfriend, or one like she may have seen in movies or other books, what she got was a Sheldon, who has a hard time giving in to his feelings, even when they're there burning a hole in his heart.

 

 

I know it's really bad manners to copy-paste your own posts, but as I posted this yesterday I kind of feel it's pointless to type it all out again:

 

Amy did not ALWAYS want a boyfriend. Unless you are deciding to ignore a whole half a season of dialogue on her part. She despised the idea of physical contact/sex, only went on dates to shut her mother up and thought romantic love was an unnecessary cultural construct. One does not need to retcon her entire background to fit in her desires as they are now. Just because she hurt from having no friends and wanted to have friends doesn't mean she wanted romance too. She met Sheldon, she met the others, things changed for her and so did her needs and hopes and desires. I think you can see that friends were a different issue for her from the fact that very rapidly after joining Sheldon's group she tried to gain acceptance and be included in the girls life, whereas, on top of her historical quotes, you don't see the same when it comes to romance. Parasite was purely sexual and even that ended with a total turnoff as soon as Zack opened his mouth, and she never once expressed a desire in dating or having a relationship (despite embracing and expressing a desire for tons of other social activities) until you see her start to crush on Sheldon at the end of S4. She didn't even seemed that phased that they terminated their relationship in Zazzy, she was totally baffled at the idea of him suggesting they try coitus at least once, and I've always maintained that Sheldon was far more smitten with her than she was with him at the beginning of their acquaintance. 

 

None of the bolded parts have ever been shown in canon. None. Other that ONE line she was given to bond with Raj that made no sense whatsoever since it was totally inconsistent with the one of the most iconic dialogues to ever come out of her mouth: their first meeting. And some of her most iconic early episodes. You do not need to retcon her entire existence to fit ONE line of dialogue mentioned in passing in ONE episode in order to explain why she became the person she is today. Amy as she is nowadays, with all her wishes, desires, expectations, ideas of romance, makes total, perfect sense simply by watching her story unfold throughout the years she's been with the gang, and makes her far far far more interesting than a cliche' nerdy girl who actually wanted to be like everyone else all along. It would just be nice if they explored her side of the story more.

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I know it's really bad manners to copy-paste your own posts, but as I posted this yesterday I kind of feel it's pointless to type it all out again:

 

Amy did not ALWAYS want a boyfriend. Unless you are deciding to ignore a whole half a season of dialogue on her part. She despised the idea of physical contact/sex, only went on dates to shut her mother up and thought romantic love was an unnecessary cultural construct. One does not need to retcon her entire background to fit in her desires as they are now. Just because she hurt from having no friends and wanted to have friends doesn't mean she wanted romance too. She met Sheldon, she met the others, things changed for her and so did her needs and hopes and desires. I think you can see that friends were a different issue for her from the fact that very rapidly after joining Sheldon's group she tried to gain acceptance and be included in the girls life, whereas, on top of her historical quotes, you don't see the same when it comes to romance. Parasite was purely sexual and even that ended with a total turnoff as soon as Zack opened his mouth, and she never once expressed a desire in dating or having a relationship (despite embracing and expressing a desire for tons of other social activities) until you see her start to crush on Sheldon at the end of S4. She didn't even seemed that phased that they terminated their relationship in Zazzy, she was totally baffled at the idea of him suggesting they try coitus at least once, and I've always maintained that Sheldon was far more smitten with her than she was with him at the beginning of their acquaintance. 

 

None of the bolded parts have ever been shown in canon. None. Other that ONE line she was given to bond with Raj that made no sense whatsoever since it was totally inconsistent with the one of the most iconic dialogues to ever come out of her mouth: their first meeting. And some of her most iconic early episodes. You do not need to retcon her entire existence to fit ONE line of dialogue mentioned in passing in ONE episode in order to explain why she became the person she is today. Amy as she is nowadays, with all her wishes, desires, expectations, ideas of romance, makes total, perfect sense simply by watching her story unfold throughout the years she's been with the gang, and makes her far far far more interesting than a cliche' nerdy girl who actually wanted to be like everyone else all along. It would just be nice if they explored her side of the story more.

 

I think that by the time she met Sheldon she was in that state, but I think that we do have clues about how left out she felt, not having a date for prom, even her own cousin having to be bribed, and then using that bribe to buy drugs instead of take her to prom, dancing with her mop at prom.

 

I think that idea was there, but like her desire for friends, it had been relegated to a dusty corner of her mind.  I don't think she went into her relationship with Sheldon looking to make him her boyfriend, but that doesn't mean that back in her youth she didn't start trying to build that puzzle.

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It was not the wanting flowers that bugged me as much as the dismissal of the log. No, liking flowers does not make her less quirky, nerdy or unique. Dismissing the log, however, which is such a random, hilarious, yet thoughtful gift, kind of does to me (although maybe it is an old-married-couple bickering thing; I just didn't get that impression). Similarly, it's not desiring to be desired that makes her any less of an interesting character or less patient. She is human and has the right to feel loved and appreciated in her relationship as much as Sheldon does. I am can totally buy her hurt and insecurity in the case of the makeout, or D&D night, or the Mars application. But when her demands for attention take very specific forms of conventional romance that she never manifested any interest in before, and these demands come out of the blue without any explanation like they did in 6x01, for example, I do do a double take and I wonder "where did THAT come from?". 

 

Having said that, like I said before, I do think her development does make sense with some fill-in-the-gaps and headcanoning. I just wish it were explored. I do think Amy is treated way better as a character than even Leonard at times, to be honest. I don't think it's got anything to do with her being a secondary character, because she *does* get her own storylines every once in a while, be it for herself (like with Bert or Emily) or with the girls. Whereas, let's face it, Leonard has essentially been sadly relegated to waiting for Penny to marry him and playing foil to Sheldon's antics. That's why I say that if they can have her own occasional storylines when it comes to other aspects of her life, it would be nice to see that in her relationship with Sheldon too. It would actually make things more interesting, IMO, than just rehashing the same stuff about "Amy pushes, Sheldon drags his heels". And give Sheldon something new to do in the relationship as well. 

The mushroom log gift is debatable since it was not given onscreen. However, in the promo, it doesn't look like dismissing Sheldon's mushroom gift, more likely because Amy,seeing Sheldon get his mom roses, refers to the "social convention" of giving a girlfriend roses. Sheltered from the world from a young age until she meet the social group, she doesn't much have real life application, which leads to real life understanding, of social conventions that she may have learned/read. Being in a relationship with someone like Sheldon, a lot of romantic conventions wouldn't be easy to apply in the relationship. No, just because it looked like she compared gifts doesn't mean she didn't appreciate it, unless they show the mushroom log gift giving episode with her acting otherwise.

 

I'm leaving her sudden outburst for demanding romance in a conventional way as an influence by her girl friends Penny and Bernadette, but majority of it I "blame" on Penny, especially since whenever she has relationship issues it's almost always Penny whom she runs to for advice or Penny witnesses it herself. Penny's,as well as Bernadette's, relationship experiences are more romantically conventional, and the relationship advices they may dish or the stories they tell Amy during girls' night outs may (with a lot of tweaking) or may not be applicable to Sheldon and Amy's quirky-but-oh-so-loveable relationship.

 

Amy may have been given back stories to keep her character development in parallel with Sheldon's character development, especially on or if it will affect the romantic aspect. The problem with Leonard is, while he serves as the straight man to basically EVERYBODY (even to Penny in several episodes), he is left solely as that, a straight man.

Edited by Chelle
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To Amy, flowers is more than what it means in a regular relationship. In a regular relationship, the man giving the woman flowers is a sweet, romantic gesture that makes the woman realize that he remembered her on her special day. But if Sheldon gave Amy flowers? That would be completely different. Not only would it mean those things, but it would also mean so much more. After years of Sheldon being rude and inconsiderate, it would show Amy that he does care, and that he does bother to remember her. Though I don't necessarily agree with her reaction, I understand. Every woman wants to feel special in her relationship, and Amy is no exception.

 

About this fight - should we point fingers at the sun because crops have withered? Should we point fingers at the rain for falling on our heads and getting our best coats wet? No. Just as, in this fight, the blame belongs to everyone and noone. I agree with Lionne - Sheldon's head was reeling. He was enamored, he was in love, and he was ready to propose. And, as I've said before, because he has been afraid of these human feelings - he has not developed them correctly. Therefore, he is unable to conduct himself in an appropriate manner in amorous situations. Thus, he started blathering about the Flash, because he got scared. I personally think that he didn't want to slip and say something about the engagement until he was ready, so he blurted something about the flash. Realizing that this probably wasn't the best topic, he leaned back in to continue the kiss. He was hoping that the comment would blow over, and that they would continue what they were doing until he was going to get down on one knee. And, after Amy got upset, and he said 'you ruined the moment' (or something of the like), it was his way of trying to recover, to convince himself that it wasn't his fault.

 

Sheldon shouldn't have said that. Amy shouldn't have stormed out. But, I'm not worried. They've got each others' 'style'. They are open books for each other. It'll only be a matter of time until Amy becomes Dr. Amy Farrah Fowler - Cooper! :)

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I think that by the time she met Sheldon she was in that state, but I think that we do have clues about how left out she felt, not having a date for prom, even her own cousin having to be bribed, and then using that bribe to buy drugs instead of take her to prom, dancing with her mop at prom.

 

I think that idea was there, but like her desire for friends, it had been relegated to a dusty corner of her mind.  I don't think she went into her relationship with Sheldon looking to make him her boyfriend, but that doesn't mean that back in her youth she didn't start trying to build that puzzle.

 

 

I really disagree and I think that’s trying to fit an unnecessary explanation into a story that has no evidence for it and doesn’t really need that explanation to make sense. The vast majority of the time when she brings up stories from her past she has this silly smile plastered on her face, recanting stories that appear sad to everyone else but, apparently, her. The prom one is a great example. "Did you go to your prom?"/"No, but I was on clean up crew" she says with a smile. The girls are like "Oh, that's sad." But Amy is all "No, it was ok! I got to dance with the mop!". Same thing about the story about her cousin taking her to that other prom or the junior prom. She was totally neutral there and not upset at all (not to mention, prom doesn’t necessarily have to have a romantic connotation - plenty of people go with friends as their dates). The only times she's been shown being sad about her past was when it came to friends, and wanting to have friends, and being excluded by her friends. And even then she often doesn’t seem to realize how sad some of her stories are (“I guess that story was more sad than funny”). 

 

Never once she has mentioned a situation where she dreamed of having a boyfriend as a kid or how she wanted Mr Perfect and instead Sheldon is so different from how she dreamed her first relationship to be. All the evidence in early S4 suggests the complete opposite. Lunar and Robotic: she goes on dates once a year only to please her mother and shut her up (and use the George Foreman grill). If she wanted a boyfriend, and her mother was pressuring her so much into getting one, why would she only date once a year? Zazzy: they call off the relationship and she couldn't care less. Desperation: she wants Sheldon to put up a ruse, again to get her mother off her back and states, bluntly, that the concept of romantic love is silly to her and Sheldon is smothering her. Parasite: she doesn't even know she can be attracted to a man, seems to view arousal as an inevitable burden and once she changes her mind upon realizing how intellectually dull Zack is, Sheldon proclaims "I'm glad you decided to reject your hindbrain and return to the realm of pure intellect"/"As am I”, implying that’s the state of mind she was in before. Weekend Vortex: Armin the horsebreeder, the boyfriend she made up to, once again, "get her family off her back". There are tons of lines where it’s shown how Amy was under pressure, left, right and center, from her family to “conform” and be normal and date and get a boyfriend, and yet she actively resisted that. Even after she met Sheldon. Intimacy: Penny is like “I’m not going to fall in love with Sheldon" and Amy comes out with “That's what I told myself". Her fanfic, where she clearly shows how Sheldon was the one who “opened her mind to new possibilities and her body to new feelings”, when before she was just the smartest girl around, who only saw boys as someone she was competing against on an intellectual level.

 

While I think one can happily debate about whether Amy *now* wants a boyfriend in general or Sheldon specifically, and I think the jury is split on that one (but I personally lean with the latter), I don’t think there’s any evidence to indicate that she always wanted a boyfriend or sat in her childhood bedroom fantasizing about her wedding and that now she’s trying to mold Sheldon into being the boyfriend she wanted all along, and is frustrated because he doesn’t fully match her childhood fantasies or the place she had left empty in her life for a man.

 

Also, if you're applying this kind of reasoning to Amy, why not to Sheldon also? Why is it only Amy who wanted romance all along but relegated it to the back of her mind? Why are we not saying that since Sheldon now obviously want to marry her, he, deep down, always wanted marriage? Or that he always wanted sex? Why is it ok to retcon Amy's story, when there's no real need to, but not Sheldon's? Why is Sheldon the stoic, intellectual teenager with a Nobel prize in mind whereas Amy is sitting in her bedroom dreaming of Prince Charming (when, actually, all we know is that she was performing surgery on her own feet when she was 15). Why is it so hard to envision a story, which is completely consistent with canon, where someone who had no interest in romance or relationships can change their mind due to their experiences?

 

I still stick to Bill Prady’s explanations of the difference between Sheldon and Amy: they both grew up quirky, weird, rejected and sheltered. The difference is that once Amy got a taste of the world she went “This is awesome!”. Whereas Sheldon continued to be indifferent. S4 remains one of my favorite seasons, and the one that drew me to this show, and the main reason for it is because I had so much fun watching Amy go from clone of Sheldon to her own character, in such a realistic and believable way. 

Edited by koops
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