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[Spoilers]Shamy S8 Thread


rachelshamyfan

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Can I just say that I see a pattern? 

 

Amy is rejected over and over again. I am just watching parts of season 5 and 6 and she gets rejected sooooo often that I am surprised she is even sticking around anymore. 

 

If my sexuality got neglected by my boyfriend all of the time, I'd be devastated as well and take it very hard. Especially if I won't sure about my own life, character, sexuality, attractiveness you name it.

 

Unsure about-? It's a serious question, because I'm blanking a little. Amy may be insecure about whether Sheldon desires her, and wants to be with her (and I say may, because that's the only way I can make sense of her behaviour in the finale). But that's about Sheldon and his desires and his neuroses, not about Amy and her desirability.

 

I accept that for lots of characters, the two may be closely linked in their heads, but Amy comes across as one of the most arrogant characters on the show. She knows she looks good in her bridesmaid's outfit, she confidently believes Leonard was checking her out when they attended a wedding together. She knows she's brilliant, she's a little impatient of people not as bright as she is and she's a recreational string theorist (mirabile dictu!) without any of the career setbacks her boyfriend has suffered. She doesn't just have a boyfriend, she has the best boyfriend, in her own words. And she has not been shy about sassing him about being with 'the popular girl'. 

 

What we know about her suggests that she was lonely growing up and had an overprotective mother. We've never really gotten any indication that Amy considers herself sexually inadequate or undesirable. The reverse, in fact- in-show, she's received interest from Sheldon, Stuart and Burt. Even when Bernie suggested that Amy was jealous of her greater conventional attractiveness, she immediately-but immediately- apologised and took it back. And there has never been any indication that that remark festers in Amy's psyche. Otherwise, Bernie was the one who said that Amy looked good in her bridesmaid's outfit- a compliment Amy was not shy about accepting. Penny's only ever dissed (pretty mildly, considering!) Amy's dress sense, with zero indication that Penny thinks that Amy herself is undesirable in any way. Amy has never seriously given any indication that she's only with Sheldon because she thinks she has no other options. I used to worry about that during S6, but I don't think so now. Burt is explicitly introduced, I think, in part to remind us that Amy has options- she chooses to be with Sheldon.

 

As to insecurity about her character: do we have reason to believe that Amy considers herself to be morally unworthy? The only time Amy's expressed an opinion is where she expressed gratitude that it was Penny who found her, before a cult did (or words to that effect). That suggests that Amy thinks she's easily led (which- she was lonely growing up, and now has friends! She has a lust for life! Give yourself a break, Ames!), but not that she thinks that her moral fibre is lacking.

 

So Amy might worry about whether Sheldon wants her, but I don't think she seriously believes that that means that nobody will want her. I think Amy has self-esteem coming out the (shapely) wazoo. And good for her. 

 

And may I just say again, after all those .gifs of the kiss came out, that I find it increasingly hard to support the hypothesis that Sheldon is sexually rejecting Amy? Because DAMN, that kiss.

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Agree to disagree here but the non-existent voluntary expression of sexual desire or as in the finale the seemingly easy diversion by something unrelated to the "action" (haha)  WILL (and I know because I've experienced it before and I am experiencing it again at the moment) increase someone's insecurities and will diminish the way they see themselves.

 

When someone hasn't ever felt he/she was desirable, he/she will find it hilarious if people then actually express any interest in them.

I am the same, since I've broken up with my ex boyfriend, I've gotten a ton of feedback (most of it positive) but I can't deal with it because it just overwhelms me.

 

If I had gotten zero to none responses and adding to that zero to none from the person that told me he loved me ... that would kill me. 

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Can I just say that I see a pattern?

Amy is rejected over and over again. I am just watching parts of season 5 and 6 and she gets rejected sooooo often that I am surprised she is even sticking around anymore.

If my sexuality got neglected by my boyfriend all of the time, I'd be devastated as well and take it very hard. Especially if I won't sure about my own life, character, sexuality, attractiveness you name it.

I agree, but Sheldon is not a person who is attracted sexually by typical vices. So, to measure his reaction to such things is going to result in disappointment.

Sheldon has told Amy numerous times he does things and creates loopholes that ascew in his favor to avoid romance and intimacy. Amy knew this going into the relationship. Her attempts to sway or manipulate him into an area he is not ready for was bound to be met with resistance and lead to feeling rejected. She made the decision, based on her attraction to him and not some act of low self-esteem or desperation, to stay in the relationship and accept what she can get in hopes it will lead to more because she genuinely wants Sheldon and no one else. Sheldon's treatment of her has been outright disrespectful, emotionally cruel, and inexusable, but Amy is the one that has allowed it to continue by choosing to remain in the relationship paradigm Sheldon has offered.

As Sheldon has said many times, he is a man of the mind, not body. This is what makes Amy so attractive to him, and he has told her such. Now it just so happens that because he wants to keep Amy around, he has reluctantly made exceptions out of his comfort zone to appeal to her "hippy dippy girl needs", such as cuddling, hand-holding, participating in VD, etc. In my opinion, the D&D episode proved to be a monumental moment as Amy was given the honor of being the "only woman" Sheldon has ever "considered" having a physical relationship with. She should have been elated by this revelation.

Now, being a woman, I understand the give an inch and run with a mile principle. One small sign leads to the false hope that all the sudden everything will be different. Sorry! Not true! As was proven, even after that revelation and the intimacy role-play, Sheldon continued to disregard Amy's feelings.

I think we, as the audience, all just wanted Amy to break up with Sheldon at this point. However, like Amy, our undertanding that Sheldon is "special" and needs more time would have us feeling compassion and extend our patience to continue shipping the relationship.

Well, that patience paid off. It just so happened that one moment of candor in trying to teach Amy a lesson on the train backfired into Sheldon discovering he enjoyed kissing her. The spark that was ignited was not necessarily a sudden desire for intimacy, but an enlightened emotional connection with Amy giving him evidence to consider investing more in their relationship.

Sheldon's desire for intimacy is not going to come from hints, pressure, innuendos, physical appearance, touch, an occasional urge, etc. He has learned to supress those things. His desire is going to come through admiration, emotion, love, a willingness to invest in Amy's happiness, and a growing need to be with her in ways he won't understand until it happens.

Amy is just struggling to read the signs that he is into her . Her body is reacting normally to not only the emotion, but the way Sheldon looks, smells, moves, the things he says, the way he touches her, etc. She assumes that she should be having the same effect on him. She fails to see that his triggers are more about what comes from inside, such as her intelligence, opinions, understanding, patience, support, forgiveness, ability to push back and challenge him to be better, and willingness to put up with him because he knows he is difficult. These are the things drawing him. During the upcoming make-out, he is so into kissing her but it was also important to him to get her opinion. Her brain matter excites him. He was focused on her, even while speaking.

They just need to learn to understand each other's sexual language.

I don't think Amy thinks badly of herself or feels unattractive. As others have mentioned, she comes across as quite arrogant at times. I think she is just unsure if Sheldon is attracted to her because she doesn't get the reactions from him she expects.

I suffered with you through Amy's frustration in S5 and S6 and am glad now she stuck it out.

There is so much ShAmy goodness ahead of us to more than make up for it now.

I just wanted to add that once Sheldon experiences how great sex can be, then his triggers might sync with Amy's, but until then, this is what she has to work with.

Edited by jenafan

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I think that Amy has some pretty funny sense of self-esteem, as was mentioned above.  She feels pretty and imagines herself to be desirable, even when she didn't actually make Leonard fall in love with her.  I think it comes on her whenever she dresses up--the yellow shoes that supposedly made Leonard "check out her caboose", the dress she wore to her colleagues wedding that supposedly made Leonard fall in love with her, the pretty bridesmaid dresses she was trying on.

 

But I don't know if she necessarily thinks about Sheldon desiring her, since he's never really shown it, until he told her that he did think she looked pretty in her prom dress.

And Leonard had to point out to her that Sheldon really did like her, with the screen saver picture.

 

I think that Amy has her doubts about her desirability when it comes to him specifically.  I don't know how much she takes into account his natural hesitance and issues, because she seems to know that she has to be patient with him, and doesn't want to pressure him to saying or doing something he doesn't want to naturally say or do.  She doesn't want lip service (ahem...you know what I mean, you dirty birdies!), but truth.

 

So I can see that she might have some insecurity, but I don't think it's necessarily the ruling thought in her mind when it comes to Sheldon.  I think it's really a matter of where his thoughts are when it comes to her.  She now knows he loves her, but when it comes to treating her like a girlfriend, perhaps the way she sees other guys treat their girls, both inside and outside her circle of friends, she seems to feel he falls short.

And he often does.

 

This reminds me a little of my younger sister when she was in college.  She really liked this one guy, was in love with him, I guess, but he just wanted to be friends (isn't that always the way...)  His rejection, if you will, made her think that she wasn't pretty--if they could be friends, that meant they had something between them, so it must be that she just wasn't attractive to him.

But then she transferred to another school and met a guy.  They were just friends at first, but then they started dating and she was seriously surprised that he found her beautiful.  That smart guy is now my bro-in-law and he still thinks she's beautiful. :)

 

I can see that Amy could feel some insecurity in that regard because Sheldon says he loves her, but he apparently does not desire her.  Not enough, anyway.

 

So, I can see her frustration in that moment in particular, when she thinks they're having a great anniversary make-out session and he's thinking about TV.  Is he kissing her because he loves her, or is he kissing her because it feels physically good, or is he kissing her because she's kissing him?  And why isn't his love or desire for her the first thing on his mind rather than a stupid TV show?

 

I can see her asking herself those questions.  I dont' think it has to be about self-esteem, but perhaps more about priorities, keeping your mind in the game.

But what she maybe does not know, or doesn't think of in that moment, is that he would naturally be thinking about many things at once, and that he's clueless enough to say the wrong thing at the wrong time.

Or maybe he really was thinking more about the TV show than about her as his girlfriend.

 

I think it's more about miscommunication, which can derail people just as easily as actual discord.

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I want to comment on the season finale.  Mainly I want to say that I agree with the other posts that have mentioned that the "break" issue will be resolved quickly.  In fact, I think we might get a resolution to the cliffhanger sooner that later (Like other have mentioned, the resolution will come probably in the first or second episode of season 9. The show's history indicates that this will most likely be the case. The writer tend to resolves these type of game-changing issues rather quickly.  Here are the following examples. 

 

Season 1 finale ( Schrodinger's Cat) and 2.1.  Throughout the episode Penny doubts wether she should go on an official date with Leonard. Then, Sheldon offers her the uncertainty principle.  At the end of the episode, Leonard and Penny kiss and she realizes that the cat is very much alive. Season 2 picks up on that same day and we see them go on their first official date.

 

Season 2 finale and 3.1:  Penny is left upset upon Leonard's departure to the Arctic.  Throughout season 2, Penny and Leonard tried dating and even almost had sex. Toward the end of season 2 we finally realize that Penny does have serious romantic feelings for Leonard (She called out his name when she kissed Stuart).  Then, we truly see her upset when she hears about the Arctic trip and she gives him a long hug (5 Mississippi's).   Upon the guy's return,  what is the first thing Penny does when she see Leonard? She passionately kisses him, officially starting their relationship.   The writers did not want Lenny to dragged out when it was obvious that they both had feelings for each other.  

 

3.1.  Sheldon's leaving to Texas after becoming upset about the can opener ruse and leaves to Texas.  In the same episode, the guys go and get him and Sheldon returns Pasadena. Resolved quickly.

 

3.2.  Penny and Leonard had sex but it was not what they expected. Sheldon suggest that Penny and Leonard can remain friends.  Again, we are led to belief that they will not be a couple, but then they kissed and they were hot for each other again.  There are no doubts that Penny and Leonard are going to be a couple.  Again, when the writers don't want to drag something out, they resolve it quickly.  

 

3.13:  Sheldon's apartment is robbed, and Sheldon decides he want to move to Montana. He doe his good bye video and then we see him arrive at the Montana bus station where he gets robbed again and immediate purchases a ticket to Pasadena.

 

Season 3 Finale and 4.1:  Sheldon's meet Amy's after being tricked into a date.  There is a hanging question about whether relationship-adverse Sheldon will continue to converse with the woman who is supposed to be his ideal match.  Then in 4.1, we learn that Sheldon has actually been talking to Amy for four months.

 

Season 4 finale and 5.1:  Penny and Raj might have slept together.  Prya is returning to India, so will Leonard and Prya stay together?  Will Leonard and her break-up and what does it mean for Lenny if Penny slept with Raj?  In 5.1, it is revealed  the very next day that Penny and Raj did not actually sleep together.  Also, Penny decides she will return to Nebraska but then gets the hemorrhoid commercial and decides to stay in CA.

 

5.7.  Leonard and Pryia have tried to make make the long distance relationship work, but they both eventually confess to cheating. 

 

Season 5 finale - 6.4:   Howard and Bernadette get married.  Howard goes to space.  Will Howard remain in space for the majority of next season?  No, he returns home by episode 4.

 

6.2- 6.3 and 6.8 -- Penny doubts relationship with Leonard again and it appears she will break up with him again, but the she finally realizes that she does not want other women taking an romantic interest in him.  She eventually discloses she loves him in 6.8. (Interesting Shamy say their ILY in 8. 8. 

 

Season 6 finale - 7.2: Leonard goes to the North Sea expedition. In 7.1, we see Leonard and Penny missing Leonard, who returns by 7.2 .

 

7.16:   Sheldon is about to break up with Amy over the table, but she manipulates him into not terminating their relationship. 

 

Season 7 finale and 8.1 -  Sheldon leaves on his train trip without saying good bye to Amy and without knowing where he is going.  In 8.1, we know where he is and he returns home.  Amy also calls him out on not saying good bye.

 

These are just some examples I can think of and which show that these type hanging issues are resolved rather early on if not addressed immediately.  I would not be surprise if in the season premeire Sheldon were to run immediately to Amy and they talk about what is bothering her and they make up.  I also wouldn't be surprised if Sheldon proposes soon after their discussion or even if they finally consummate their relationship early Season 9 and marry by end of Season 9.   These are just my observations based on these examples.

Edited by shamymania

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'So Dr. Fowler... you want some time to think about things? Take all the time you need...I'll be right here waiting for you. Then... I will make you mine!" 

London_JPOIG_5May2015_01.png?resize=580%

As the system won't let me "like" this post, may I just say... Thank you. Wow. If you didn't get Amy before, you sure should now!

*fans self*

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Agree to disagree here but the non-existent voluntary expression of sexual desire or as in the finale the seemingly easy diversion by something unrelated to the "action" (haha)  WILL (and I know because I've experienced it before and I am experiencing it again at the moment) increase someone's insecurities and will diminish the way they see themselves.

 

When someone hasn't ever felt he/she was desirable, he/she will find it hilarious if people then actually express any interest in them.

I am the same, since I've broken up with my ex boyfriend, I've gotten a ton of feedback (most of it positive) but I can't deal with it because it just overwhelms me.

 

If I had gotten zero to none responses and adding to that zero to none from the person that told me he loved me ... that would kill me. 

 

Yes, but you are jumping ahead at least a bunch of episodes here and attributing feelings to Amy that we have *never* seen her express on the show. All we know from the finale is that she is upset that Sheldon is apparently distracted by thinking about TV when they come up for air during a makeout session and that she might be having some doubts about their relationship as a consequence. What those doubts exactly are about, what conclusion will she draw from it, what she is feeling about it, has not been explored and we really don't know where her head is at right now other than the fact that she's obviously distressed. Could they go down the "this is giving Amy's self-confidence a blow" route? Sure. But I find that previous writing is the best predictor of future writing and I would frankly be surprised if the show went down the route of Amy questioning her self-worth or attractiveness because of several reasons:

 

- The show has always given Amy the same level of sexual, physical and intellectual confidence and worth that it's given other characters. It always hammered home how, yes, she can dress like a grandma and her hair is flat and lifeless and her whole body is falling apart due to allergies and other ailments, but she is still has attracted other men's attention and the attention of Sheldon of all people (because as much as *she* might not be aware of whether he's into her that way, we have had several hints as the audience when she was not around, mostly). Not only that, but she thinks she's the hottest thing in town, a lot of the time. 

- Having her suddenly question her own self-esteem would not only go against the above, but the message would be borderline "make-overish": if a woman is having problems with a man, it must obviously be something wrong with her and she should question her insecurities, rather than the man she's with. I really don't think the show would go there, and it would be pretty off-putting if it did. I think it's clear Amy is questioning Sheldon here, and what he wants, not herself. 

- Nowhere in the show, or in the finale, has it ever been suggested that that is affecting how Amy perceives *herself*, her worth, her attractiveness or her social status. Like others have said, Amy has always been incredibly cocky when it comes to herself, both physically and intellectually, and having doubts over Sheldon or the relationship does not automatically equal diminished self-confidence, just the confidence in the relationship and what her expectations are or should be. 

- The reason I love Troll Manifestation is because the fanfic, to me, it's such a wonderful insight into Amy's head when it comes to her past and her relationship: she knew she was above everyone else all her life, she finally meets someone who's "not a boy but a man" (i.e. her equal), she starts contemplating things she never contemplated or felt before and she sees in him her one chance at true love. And precisely because he represents that "once chance", she is too afraid to burst the bubble and ask questions she might not like the answer too. That, right there, is AFF in a nutshell to me. It's not about how she sees herself, is about how she sees Sheldon and what he means to her. That is her weakness. She could have all the Zacks, Stuarts, Burts and random-guys-at-the-bar in the world, but none of them are Sheldon. 

 

Just because a diminished self-esteem can be a consequence of such a situation, or something that some people normally experience, does not mean that everyone reacts the same way, that that's where Amy's head is at, or that that's where the show is going to go. All I'm getting out of the finale is that she is having doubts about the relationship and, most likely, about what Sheldon wants and desires out of the relationship.

Edited by koops

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I just wanted to post a thank you to all who have spoiled me. I so enjoy reading here. To all who do the taping reports, I thank you!

All the  ideas of what will happen are interesting to read but one thing we all agree on is that the Shamy belong together.

Can't wait to watch tonight!

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There are only two possibilities as to Amy's retreat:

 

1. She takes that time off to think about what Sheldon really wants. That doesn't make sense because the only one who can answer that question is Sheldon himself. So she builds up some courage to finally go and ask him the question.

 

2. She takes that time off to think about what she wants from that relationship after all those years of wait and over slow pace. She finds out that she wants to stay with Sheldon more than anything else, even if it doesn't go any faster ( in her opinion ).

 

I must say that I really love n°2 much better because it sounds more natural and IC with Amy.

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Agree to disagree here but the non-existent voluntary expression of sexual desire or as in the finale the seemingly easy diversion by something unrelated to the "action" (haha)  WILL (and I know because I've experienced it before and I am experiencing it again at the moment) increase someone's insecurities and will diminish the way they see themselves.

 

When someone hasn't ever felt he/she was desirable, he/she will find it hilarious if people then actually express any interest in them.

I am the same, since I've broken up with my ex boyfriend, I've gotten a ton of feedback (most of it positive) but I can't deal with it because it just overwhelms me.

 

If I had gotten zero to none responses and adding to that zero to none from the person that told me he loved me ... that would kill me. 

 

Firstly, Dannii, I'm sorry you went through that. 

 

I think that Amy has some pretty funny sense of self-esteem, as was mentioned above.  She feels pretty and imagines herself to be desirable, even when she didn't actually make Leonard fall in love with her.  I think it comes on her whenever she dresses up--the yellow shoes that supposedly made Leonard "check out her caboose", the dress she wore to her colleagues wedding that supposedly made Leonard fall in love with her, the pretty bridesmaid dresses she was trying on.

 

But I don't know if she necessarily thinks about Sheldon desiring her, since he's never really shown it, until he told her that he did think she looked pretty in her prom dress.

And Leonard had to point out to her that Sheldon really did like her, with the screen saver picture.

 

I think that Amy has her doubts about her desirability when it comes to him specifically.  I don't know how much she takes into account his natural hesitance and issues, because she seems to know that she has to be patient with him, and doesn't want to pressure him to saying or doing something he doesn't want to naturally say or do.  She doesn't want lip service (ahem...you know what I mean, you dirty birdies!), but truth.

 

So I can see that she might have some insecurity, but I don't think it's necessarily the ruling thought in her mind when it comes to Sheldon.  I think it's really a matter of where his thoughts are when it comes to her.  She now knows he loves her, but when it comes to treating her like a girlfriend, perhaps the way she sees other guys treat their girls, both inside and outside her circle of friends, she seems to feel he falls short.

And he often does.

 

This reminds me a little of my younger sister when she was in college.  She really liked this one guy, was in love with him, I guess, but he just wanted to be friends (isn't that always the way...)  His rejection, if you will, made her think that she wasn't pretty--if they could be friends, that meant they had something between them, so it must be that she just wasn't attractive to him.

But then she transferred to another school and met a guy.  They were just friends at first, but then they started dating and she was seriously surprised that he found her beautiful.  That smart guy is now my bro-in-law and he still thinks she's beautiful. :)

 

I can see that Amy could feel some insecurity in that regard because Sheldon says he loves her, but he apparently does not desire her.  Not enough, anyway.

 

So, I can see her frustration in that moment in particular, when she thinks they're having a great anniversary make-out session and he's thinking about TV.  Is he kissing her because he loves her, or is he kissing her because it feels physically good, or is he kissing her because she's kissing him?  And why isn't his love or desire for her the first thing on his mind rather than a stupid TV show?

 

I can see her asking herself those questions.  I dont' think it has to be about self-esteem, but perhaps more about priorities, keeping your mind in the game.

But what she maybe does not know, or doesn't think of in that moment, is that he would naturally be thinking about many things at once, and that he's clueless enough to say the wrong thing at the wrong time.

Or maybe he really was thinking more about the TV show than about her as his girlfriend.

 

I think it's more about miscommunication, which can derail people just as easily as actual discord.

 

So I understand that (especially during the dark days of S6 and S7) Amy tried various ways of getting Sheldon to look at her as a sexual being, and Sheldon shot her down- because that's not what turns his crank. And, irritatingly, Amy should know that. Remember the time that she used her 'neurobiological bag of tricks' to increase Sheldon's feelings for her? I loved that so much, because Amy told Sheldon very plainly what she was doing. She was not only setting out to seduce him, she was deploying and showing off her awesome intellect while doing so. That whole thing was just so playful and fun. For her to try stuff like her Snow White outfit and her endearingly literal interpretation of a Catholic Schoolgirl uniform, when she already knows what works- ugh. Writers, the 'Amy is horny and sad, and Sheldon is oblivious' joke was never as funny as you thought it was! 

 

And I get that it is possible for a person to tie his/her sense of sexual/romantic worth to the reactions of one particular person. My contention is that we don't have any textual evidence that Amy, specifically, feels that way. If the finale had ended with Amy saying to Sheldon 'I don't feel like you desire me', or even 'I don't feel desirable around you', that would a clear indicator of Amy's feeling unwanted as a result of Sheldon's 'Flash' remark. Even if the writers don't want to spell it out like that, some evidence that Amy feels unsexy as a result of Sheldon's behaviour would do. As far as we know, though, Amy likes the way she looks, and she likes the way she dresses. Her idiosyncratic sense of style is preserved even when she dresses up (as for Prom) or role-plays (as in her fabulously un-stripper-y Catholic Schoolgirl outfit). Amy has never, in-show, indicated that she thinks she's anything but Da Bomb. She has never made herself over or tried to look like Penny or Bernie to get her boyfriend to look at her. And good for her! And good for the show, and good for the writers whom I give so much grief! There is no evidence, in-show, that Amy feels unsexy or undesirable. She wants Sheldon to want her, which is fine. But that doesn't automatically mean that she feels unwantable because Sheldon doesn't ravish her. 

 

I feel strongly about this, because- however much shit I give the show's writers for their treatment of Amy- I have to give them this: the show has always, always accorded Amy the same assumption of sexual worth that it gives to its male characters. Even when they were hammering the 'Look, everybody! Amy is sad and horny!' joke into the ground, at no point did they suggest that Sheldon's hesitation is about anything other than his own neuroses. Nobody, but nobody, in-show, has suggested that Amy would spring Sheldon if she tarted herself up or fluffed out her hair or pushed out her cleavage.

 

And at no point has the show suggested that Amy herself feels that Sheldon is bad for her self-esteem. She may be exasperated with him. She may be tired of constantly driving the relationship. She may be tired of throwing herself at him and being asked for a hot beverage instead. She may be all of those things. But at no point has the show suggested that Amy thinks that this is all she can get. She has a frequently-exasperating boyfriend, but she loves him and wants him. She knows she has alternatives- the show has taken care to show her them- but she wants Sheldon. That doesn't mean she's damaged, it just means that she, like Sheldon, has specific sexual and romantic tastes.

Yes, but you are jumping ahead at least a bunch of episodes here and attributing feelings to Amy that we have *never* seen her express on the show. All we know from the finale is that she is upset that Sheldon is apparently distracted by thinking about TV when they come up for air during a makeout session and that she might be having some doubts about their relationship as a consequence. What those doubts exactly are about, what conclusion will she draw from it, what she is feeling about it, has not been explored and we really don't know where her head is at right now other than the fact that she's obviously distressed. Could they go down the "this is giving Amy's self-confidence a blow" route? Sure. But I find that previous writing is the best predictor of future writing and I would frankly be surprised if the show went down the route of Amy questioning her self-worth or attractiveness because of several reasons:

 

- The show has always given Amy the same level of sexual, physical and intellectual confidence and worth that it's given other characters. It always hammered home how, yes, she can dress like a grandma and her hair is flat and lifeless and her whole body is falling apart due to allergies and other ailments, but she is still has attracted other men's attention and the attention of Sheldon of all people (because as much as *she* might not be aware of whether he's into her that way, we have had several hints as the audience when she was not around, mostly). Not only that, but she thinks she's the hottest thing in town, a lot of the time. 

- Having her suddenly question her own self-esteem would not only go against the above, but the message would be borderline "make-overish": if a woman is having problems with a man, it must obviously be something wrong with her and she should question her insecurities, rather than the man she's with. I really don't think the show would go there, and it would be pretty off-putting if it did. I think it's clear Amy is questioning Sheldon here, and what he wants, not herself. 

- Nowhere in the show, or in the finale, has it ever been suggested that that is affecting how Amy perceives *herself*, her worth, her attractiveness or her social status. Like others have said, Amy has always been incredibly cocky when it comes to herself, both physically and intellectually, and having doubts over Sheldon or the relationship does not automatically equal diminished self-confidence, just the confidence in the relationship and what her expectations are or should be. 

 

Preach it, koops!

Edited by wowbagger

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I'm going to a music festival today and the episode airs at 2am for me, so I'll be either completely sh*tfaced in the chat or not at all (which is most likely gonna happen)...

Either way, enjoy the chat and the finale tonight, guys! I will have my meltdown tomorrow. :haha:

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