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[Spoilers]Shamy S8 Thread


rachelshamyfan
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I agree.  At the moment I think we have two Amy's, the original inner true quirky Amy who has (of necessity admittedly) been independent, self reliant, strong minded, who trusted her own opinions and instincts (and who still at times pops her head up) and a new outer Amy who now has friends and perhaps is trying to be a bit more like them to fit in.  They have become her role models.  She is viewing their relationships from the outside, thinking it is all romance, and is (a little) influenced on their views that her and Sheldon's relationship is not romantic.

 

It would be nice if as you say she could loose her rose coloured glasses in relation to the others' relationships and wake up to what she has, a man who is solely interested in her and to realise that to have someone who sees in you what no one else has seen is so much more attractive and long lasting.

 

I would think however that if Penny was the instrument of that awakening, then it would be unintentional on her behalf as I don't think Penny - at the moment - really understands or gets what Sheldon and Amy have because it is so far outside her own experiences.

 

Again I agree that Amy still has a lot to learn, and I think I remember one of the writers saying that she was going through a missed adolescence (that could have be quoted wrong - if so sorry) so she still has some growing up to do.  It would be great to see her going through some of that growth on screen.

 

Oh, I agree, it would most likely be somewhat accidental. But I can see it happening like in 7x14 when she told Amy "Sex isn't what makes you a grown up". And, to be honest, after 8x03 I'm not sure Penny doesn't get what Sheldon and Amy have. I think it's Leonard who doesn't get it. Penny was clearly rattled by Sheldon's bragging about his relationship with Amy and while Leonard was busy trying to dismiss Shamy's relationship, she was making comparisons between them and herself and Leonard ("We have nothing in common", for example). So I think that while she doesn't understand really how Sheldon ticks and doesn't have a lot of patience for that, she accepts it and is able to see why Sheldon and Amy put up with each other, in a way that maybe nobody else in the group does. 

 

Bingo. I was saying in the General Chat Thread, during one of the 'Sexism In Popular Culture: Perspectives on the Big Bang Theory' conversations, that my gender-based complaint with Sheldon and Amy is primarily that the writers don't seem as interested in Amy's inner life, her faults, her journey or her learning, as they are in Sheldon's. My big problem with the past two seasons is that everything in the Sheldon/Amy relationship has been about Sheldon's neuroses, Sheldon's feelings, Sheldon's need to grow up*. Even the jealousy-based freakouts that we see, for instance: are the writers saying that Sheldon's the likelier to get jealous, or are they saying that they're more interested in Sheldon's jealousy or insecurity than they are in Amy's? Yes, I know Sheldon's a main character, but they Amy they write is herself fascinatingly immature and wrongheaded in lots of ways. When she isn't called on her own bullshit, I don't get the sense that the writers think she's perfect.  I get the sense that the writers don't care about her development as a character.

 

LOL! That bold part. I think a big part of the reason for this is that most of the writers are men and first wrote the show from their own perspective, with the women being this sort of "alien" creatures. Ironically, Amy was, and still is, the one girl who is closer to the guys in terms of characterization. But since she was added to fuel Sheldon's story, they mostly write it from the POV of "How are we going to make Sheldon progress"? rather than "Is Amy right or wrong, here?". It's kind of why I liked the V-day ep so much, because for once we saw BOTH being right and wrong at the same time. 

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I keep thinking about what Amy finds romantic. I mean a lot of people have different notions of romance. 

 

For instance: I hate flowers...well I don't hate them, but I hate when someone give me flowers and they die like 2 days later. It makes me think that they wouldn't have died if someone hadn't bought them.

 

Romance for me is my husband taking care of the kids without me having to ask him or complain that I'm tired. 

 

Where did Amy get her notion of romance? From Penny and Bernadette? From girly magazines? Some days she finds romantic that he writes a Relationship Agreement, other days she wants dinners, and hand holding at the movies. 

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Bingo. I was saying in the General Chat Thread, during one of the 'Sexism In Popular Culture: Perspectives on the Big Bang Theory' conversations, that my gender-based complaint with Sheldon and Amy is primarily that the writers don't seem as interested in Amy's inner life, her faults, her journey or her learning, as they are in Sheldon's. My big problem with the past two seasons is that everything in the Sheldon/Amy relationship has been about Sheldon's neuroses, Sheldon's feelings, Sheldon's need to grow up*. Even the jealousy-based freakouts that we see, for instance: are the writers saying that Sheldon's the likelier to get jealous, or are they saying that they're more interested in Sheldon's jealousy or insecurity than they are in Amy's? Yes, I know Sheldon's a main character, but they Amy they write is herself fascinatingly immature and wrongheaded in lots of ways. When she isn't called on her own bullshit, I don't get the sense that the writers think she's perfect.  I get the sense that the writers don't care about her development as a character.

 

Amy did get jealous of Sheldon's assistant, Alex---enough so that she "marked" items in his office.  However, since then, he's admitted to her that he'd never been interested in being intimate with anyone before she came into his life and that he's merely to the point now of "not ruling it out,"  because of that, I'm not sure how they would have Amy show jealousy now.   Sheldon may have come across as arrogant when he told Raj that Amy was locked in and couldn't go out with other men;  but I think Amy has to be the more secure one as far as knowing that Sheldon wouldn't be easily stolen by some one else.

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Well, then with all due respect, Rachel, does it belong in this thread, then? I was under the impression that the Positivity Thread was created for wild, sexual fantasy and speculation. For talk of marriage and babies and baby names and all of those things which some people like to fantasize about.

 

Maybe this is just me speaking, but the field on which one can simply discuss what's happening on the actual show and aspects of the ship which are actually in character has become very narrow. So narrow, in fact, that I can't think of any other place where "reality" and the Shamy ship merge other than this thread.

 

There are so many avenues and threads on which to indulge in fantasy - fan fiction, tumblr, the Positivity thread, a lot of whatever is happening in the Jim Parsons or MaJim threads. I hold nothing against people who want to fantasize about a more romantic, passionate Shamy; I do it myself from time to time, but it's also important to have a place where people can live with and discuss the reality of what's happening on the show as well. People need and deserve ground on which to have a more fact-based conversation about the reality of the ship, and I, personally, can find that frustratingly hard to hold onto sometimes.

 

And I don't think it should be.

 

 

Agreed, Lio, with one quibble: I think you're not opposed to speculation on the thread, no? As in, I think of this thread as a safe space to theorise about character arcs and plot developments, to laud a particularly neat exchange or plot or phrase, and bitch about a particularly groan-worthy exchange etcetera (because I am an enormous grump, guess which option I prefer). I think it's also legitimate to discuss desired character arcs or plot developments, so long as these desires do not violate established character or plot dynamics.

 

We 'ship Sheldon and Amy, and we may root for them to get over their individual and collective neuroses and issues enough to cohabitate/fornicate/whatever. And I think they're working towards this! However, if we want it to happen now, and we want it to happen with candles and a harpsichord arrangement of 'Let's Get it On*'- well, that involves a quite radical reset of existing personalities. And hey, that sort of speculation/fantasising is loads of fun**, but maybe there are places on the interblankets better suited to it?

 

 

*Full disclosure: if anyone here has such an arrangement, message me, because I would LOVE to know what it sounds like.

 

**Seriously, loads of fun. If nobody here has a harpsichord version of 'Let's Get It On', I would also accept 'Sexual Healing'. 

Edited by wowbagger

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I do differ a little bit.  While I agree 100% that the show is written to show Sheldon's point of view, I don't think Amy has been completely forgotten.

 

But I do think the writers have also written Amy's growth too.  Now its not always from her POV, but the character has clearly changed and developed from a nerdy little clueless girl to currently a teenager in a way.  They've noted this on numerous panels that both characters were sheltered, but when Amy was introduced to everything she missed out on, she embraced it.  And this changed her ways and every season we've seen more and more growth (now some argue she's lost a little of her true self in that...I do think she is on the path of growth and currently she's like age 16-18 if that makes sense).  Most of us as teens did sucome to peer pressure, wanting what others had, etc.  And hopefully once you mature even more you find a mix between your true self and what you gained from experience (hence why I think the real changes for them ie coitus & living together will be season 9). 

 

I also think based off Raiders (which I love for this reason) that Amy is far from perfect.  She is just as clueless and in Raiders she was so firm on pointing out a story flaw...she didn't think how she ruined her boyfriend's beloved movies (that he was so clearly excited to show her).  And she ultimately did apologize but not until Sheldon tried to ruin something for her (so she didn't have guilt until he went to that measure).  SO again...she is far from perfect and makes mistakes too. 

Edited by kerrycec03
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I keep thinking about what Amy finds romantic. I mean a lot of people have different notions of romance. 

 

For instance: I hate flowers...well I don't hate them, but I hate when someone give me flowers and they die like 2 days later. It makes me think that they wouldn't have died if someone hadn't bought them.

 

Romance for me is my husband taking care of the kids without me having to ask him or complain that I'm tired. 

 

Where did Amy get her notion of romance? From Penny and Bernadette? From girly magazines? Some days she finds romantic that he writes a Relationship Agreement, other days she wants dinners, and hand holding at the movies. 

 

Well, she can like both. I do think most of her notions of romance come from her friends and movies/books, since she has no other frame of reference. And I think that while she might have genuinely come to like some of these aspects of romance (for example, by now I think that she genuinely likes going out to dinner for dates), she might also think she wants certain things because that's what her frames of reference tell her a relationship is about, but deep down she doesn't really care as long as she is close to Sheldon (for example, on V-day she just wanted to be close to him, no matter whether it was drinking wine at the dinner table or in the engine room... she just wanted some affection). 

 

So I don't think that her liking some aspects of conventional romance and finding the RA hot or romantic is necessarily mutually exclusive. It's her own quirky blend of romance, I think.

 

@Pebbles: good point! Also, I liked Mayim's insight on that episode. How she said that Amy doesn't know how to deal with that kind of drama and threat and it doesn't even make a lot of sense for them to dwell on it for more than half an episode because she would have confronted Sheldon and Sheldon would have said "What am I going to do with her?!" and the conversation would have been over. 

Edited by koops
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I also think based off Raiders (which I love for this reason) that Amy is far from perfect.  She is just as clueless and in Raiders she was so firm on pointing out a story flaw...she didn't think how she ruined her boyfriend's beloved movies (that he was so clearly excited to show her).  And she ultimately did apologize but not until Sheldon tried to ruin something for her (so she didn't have guilt until he went to that measure).  SO again...she is far from perfect and makes mistakes too. 

 

I don't know if I agree with that. I certainly do agree with the fact that the moments that Amy is not perfect or depicted as a saint are quite enjoyable. But I don't really get how Amy was wrong in the Raiders. He did ask about her opinion after all. And one thing I love about them is their unfiltered honesty. She could have avoided telling him about the ''glaring story problem'' but I don't see why not since that was her opinion. She enjoyed it even though there was a story problem for her.

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I don't know if I agree with that. I certainly do agree with the fact that the moments that Amy is not perfect or depicted as a saint are quite enjoyable. But I don't really get how Amy was wrong in the Raiders. He did ask about her opinion after all. And one thing I love about them is their unfiltered honesty. She could have avoided telling him about the ''glaring story problem'' but I don't see why not since that was her opinion. She enjoyed it even though there was a story problem for her.

well I don't think she "loved it" and yes, I do appreciate their brutal honesty.....but to ruin something that your partner loves is cruel.  While she didn't mean it and there was no ill-will from her on purpose, I think now she realizes that it wasn't the best thing to do, hence she apologized after the fact. 

 

Again, it was a learning experience.  Just like all their bumps

Edited by kerrycec03

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Well, she can like both. I do think most of her notions of romance come from her friends and movies/books, since she has no other frame of reference. And I think that while she might have genuinely come to like some of these aspects of romance (for example, by now I think that she genuinely likes going out to dinner for dates), she might also think she wants certain things because that's what her frames of reference tell her a relationship is about, but deep down she doesn't really care as long as she is close to Sheldon (for example, on V-day she just wanted to be close to him, no matter whether it was drinking wine at the dinner table or in the engine room... she just wanted some affection). 

 

So I don't think that her liking some aspects of conventional romance and finding the RA hot or romantic is necessarily mutually exclusive. It's her own quirky blend of romance, I think.

 

@Pebbles: good point! Also, I liked Mayim's insight on that episode. How she said that Amy doesn't know how to deal with that kind of drama and threat and it doesn't even make a lot of sense for them to dwell on it for more than half an episode because she would have confronted Sheldon and Sheldon would have said "What am I going to do with her?!" and the conversation would have been over. 

I understand. I didn't mean to say she couldn't like both, but she clearly liked the RA and not because she read somewhere that it was romantic.

 

That's what I meant. She has her own notions of romance, but she expect things from Sheldon that he doesn't like/can't do it because she read or she saw or she learned that how it is, when maybe it's not exactly what she wants, it's just what she thinks it's right. 

 

It's completely normal that she likes both variations of romance, I just think that sometimes she puts pressure on herself and on Sheldon to act a certain way as a couple, when she doesn't really believe it's what's right for them. She just see how it works for other couples and immediatly accepts that they should try and be that way.

 

And sometimes she tries and she likes it and sometimes Sheldon likes it as well. One clear example for me is Sheldon mentioning Amy doesn't believe in wearing costumes, and then Amy and Sheldon having more than one costume episode after that. 

 

I still want an episode that Amy says something meaningful about her upbringing and not some sad joke here and there, maybe I would understand a little better.

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well I don't think she "loved it" and yes, I do appreciate their brutal honesty.....but to ruin something that your partner loves is cruel.  While she didn't mean it and there was no ill-will from her on purpose, I think now she realizes that it wasn't the best thing to do, hence she apologized after the fact. 

 

Again, it was a learning experience.  Just like all their bumps

 

I don't think she loved it but I think she was quite honest when she said she enjoyed it. And for all she knew Sheldon already realized the story problem since it was ''glaring'' for her. That's the point. She didn't do it on purpose she just expressed an opinion. That could or couldn't destroy the film for him. She just tried to prove her point later and that's not immature or anything. And of course she apologized but I don't think it's something she wouldn't do if she could go back and undo it cause that's who she (and quite frankly Shamy) is. I think that moment focused on the one thing that can make Shamy go crazy with each other. They have their beliefs and they are not going to change them or express them not even for each other. But they are willing to discuss them and admit thet they are annoyed and apologize. But what I got from that was that they don't intend to stop making similar remarks they are just going to discuss it openly when they are annoyed and apologize to show that there was no bad intention behind it.

 

But I agree about it being a learning experience. I think it was one of the most adult moments they had as a couple.

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But come around to what, exactly?

Good Question!  I'm not trying to change Sheldon. I meant to come around to the understanding on love and romance. Accepting of it. Everything is data, like the quiz. Look how hard it was for him to give up string theory. Sheldon has all these hypotheses about romance and other " Hippy-dippy" things. I want him to come around to those things and understand Amy's desire for them. More like accepting it though

 

As far as intimacy, that has aways ever been " I haven't ruled it out" or its a "possibility"  Sheldon is about findings and data, But with love there is no data per se that is going to show a need for it.  I think Amy does understand this, she studies the brain after all, and we have seen her get to him with her experiments . I just think to get Sheldon to understand that somethings in life can't be proven with scientific methods is gonna to take something big. I think that is going to have to be something within himself,  Maybe I'm to much of a feeling type person, idk. The desire to express feeling comes from within, be in verbal or physical

 

After thinking about it, I wanted to add this:  I'm from Massachusetts with all the witchcraft history around here, there is a saying. " If you ever have the desire to use a love potion on someone, drink it quick" Meaning you should never feel unloveable enough to force someone to love you. Sure Amy could get into Sheldon's mind and bring out feeling in him, but I don't think I would want to see that. Which again, is why I want this realization to come from within Sheldon himself! I like that she helps him try to overcome certain things, but there is a line.

Edited by EvilStewie
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I am not on board with the slow dancing, flowers, traditional ideals for romance for Shamy AT ALL. It's fine that there are those that have that idea.  For me, that is just not Shamy. 

 

If they should dance at the Lenny wedding, I would be all for the dancing they did the last time it was shown on screen.  I would love even more for the "what the ?#@&" looks from Lenny, Raj/whoever, Howardette, etc those dancing around them.  That would be more Shamy to me than Sheldon taking her hand soflty and you know the rest.

 

Koops. Lio, wowbagger all made posts I really agree with and LIKED them.  Being new here, I haven't quite figured out how to quote in my posts.  It could be a technical issue on my computer since it's last upgrade as there are a few things that aren't working right and I haven't had the time or energy to fix them.

 

Anyhoo, which makes the ILY and coitus all the more intriguing as to how the writers approach this when the comes to make this moment uniquely Shamy.  In that sense, the push/pull method they have used in the past, definitely buys the TPTB time to figure that out. 

 

Ultimately, I think both Sheldon and Amy have work to do to figure out what makes them happy.  I think part of that is Amy shedding some of what she thinks is supposed to be romance.  I would like to see that played out on screen.  I also want the "Amy gets none" jokes to go away (kind of why I was irked by the pants dropping line).  I just don't think Amy would know what to do if he Sheldon went there.  I use her reaction to on screen kissing.  Sheldon seemed much more relaxed than she did even by the 2nd kiss. We know they have kissed in front of Leonard offscreen so my S8 hope is that when they do kiss again on screen we see a more relaxed Amy.   

Edited by Denise07
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OK , let's go over a few things.

First and foremost, if you see a post that you think is not within the rules, DO NOT REPLY TO IT, REPORT IT. This can be done using the REPORT button in the lower left hand corner of each post. This also helps as it is flagged as a report in our notifications. We respond faster to reports, and it also pinpoints the post for us, instead of having to look through the thread to find it.

This thread is for supportive posts, concerning Sheldon and Amy. This includes plot lines anyone would like to see, as long as it is supportive. Problems, with the couple as you see them, are allowed, as long as the post is overall supportive. For instance, state the problem and offer a solution. Derogatory comments directed at the couple and/or the members of the couple are not allowed. After reading through the thread, I didn't see any post that was out of line, as far as discussing Sheldon and Amy.

Another point is there should not be any derogatory, condescending, or snarky comments directed at other threads. You may not like the concept of the other thread, but others may love it. Remember, in addition to the forums regular rules, there are special rules for shipping zones. Our forum rules can be found while the rules for shipping zones cane be found here .

If you have a question or are unsure if your post is appropriate, PM either me or Tripper.

Tensor

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I also prefer to try to keep within the realm of what is more realistically in character when discussing the Shamy.  I think it's okay for people to occasionally wax rhapsodic, because we all can get carried away now and then, but I have always objected to the over-the-top hearts and flowers imagery that sometimes crops up in Shamy discussions.

 

I don't know if that sort of talk should be "confined" anywhere, but I certainly understand the desire to avoid it.

 

I actually more or less like the way things are progressing and have progressed--a little jealousy, a little direct questioning, a little conflict.  These are things that can naturally lead to the small, incremental epiphanies we've had between these two.

I think that for Sheldon, since it's so hard for him to admit that he has such things as those hippy-dippy "feelings" he always seems to view with disdain, it may often take a few sharp nudges in the ribs to make him admit to himself, let alone to others, that he can indeed be motivated by such things.

 

As others have pointed out, he does have a pride problem.  I think that he views himself so much as a man of science and intellect and he does tend to keep certain aspects of his physical self at arms length (keeping a cool, wary distance), that it kills him to have to admit that he has tender feelings for anyone other than his Meemaw and his mother, or that he has any issues with his body's reactions over anything other than his bowel movements or other health concerns (moles, prostate, ringing in his ears, etc.).

 

I do wonder if the writers have these sorts of things in mind as far as a sort of character profile are concerned, or if they simply kind of go by instinct--like, "I don't think Sheldon would say that" or "I don't think Sheldon would do that"--when it comes to how they write him in regard to Amy and the relationship.

I think we know that they're willing to sacrifice a lot in order to get a punchline in there, and they don't plan very far ahead, at least in the specific, so I wonder what it is they use to guide their writing choices when it comes to the progression of the Shamy.

Edited by phantagrae
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Where did Amy get her notion of romance? From Penny and Bernadette? From girly magazines? Some days she finds romantic that he writes a Relationship Agreement, other days she wants dinners, and hand holding at the movies. 

 

That's a good question, and I'm kinda curious about it. Our only real hint is to go back to the first time that this really popped up, and that was when Sheldon was agonizing over his haircut. Her whole thing about Sheldon with long hair, shirtless, riding bare back on a horse seemed cut right out of a really, really awful romance novel. About as cheesy as you could find, really. Something with Fabio all oiled up on the cover. And then Amy, when projecting Sheldon into that fantasy, had to go and "brush her teeth," and it does make me wonder if Amy is the type of girl who keeps a romance novel or two under the mattress for, you know, those special times and a girl has certain urges.

 

The romance novel image that Amy came up with seems distant from the sort of things she would hear from Penny and Bernadette. I think she would hear pretty plain talk from the two of them; their relationships with Leonard and Howard are grounded in reality and I can't imagine that either really talks an overly romantic game about their men. A men riding shirtless and bareback on a horse is even a far cry from the kind of guy who crops up in the standard rom com, so I don't think her ideals come from those either. Besides, from what Amy said about her mother not allowing her to watch a movie as sweet and innocent as Grease, I suspect that Amy wasn't allowed to watch a lot of movies in her life either. And I don't think she was invited over to her friends houses for slumber parties or the study breaks or hang out sessions where people gather to watch movies anyway. But Amy would have been around bookstores and libraries a lot; so I think that her romantic ideals come from books she wasn't supposedly allowed, but her curiosity (like reading up on biology to find out what whores do) led her to reading those smutty books she wasn't supposed to get her hands on.

 

Without girlfriends to talk plain about romance or the actual mechanics of sex or bitch about the ups and downs of their real relationships, any experience in an actual relationship much less a romantic one, and whatever things her mother was filling her head with, I truly cannot imagine how or why Amy would actually have a realistic impression or what romance, sex or love was about. And if her knowledge is based on the kind of things in romance novels (he played my body like a violin and I orgasmed a hundred times at his merest touch, at the heat in his eyes!) - I mean, God lord. No wonder the girl doesn't stand a chance.

 

It would be great if she's starting to get a clue from listening to Penny and Bernadette about what real romantic, sexual relationships are like; but Howard and Leonard are pretty doting boyfriends and she still sees them engaging in a lot of lovey dovey stuff. Even if the girls told her it wasn't completely normal, watching Howard and Bernadette on Valentine's Day or Leonard's devotion to keeping Penny happy and their very active sex life.....well, they could try to tell her "what's what" but Amy has plenty of reason to not believe them based on evidence she's actually witnessed.

 

Unfortunately, I'm still grasping at little evidence here because as people have pointed out, Amy's angle in all of this is not explored as deeply as Sheldon's angle. We have to make a lot of educated guesses with her based on brief lines of dialogue we can't be sure that the writers even gave enough thought to that they won't be contradicted later. The debate about Amy's father ran the same way - in the end we don't know, although we can say what really would NOT make sense considering what's happened so far, we have to admit that they can still do just about anything. We don't even know if this compelling storyline - Sheldon is more practical about the relationship and still reserved vs Amy being more idealistic and overly enthusiastic and where will the two of them end up meeting - in the middle? - through experience - is something that the writers really intend or are going to follow through on this season. It would be amazing and really interesting to me if they did, and they have a firm grip on the couple, but I don't know. I find the opening episodes really funny and sweet, but a bit devoid of enough hints to be certain where some of the arcs are going this season.

 

Amy is smart and she knows Sheldon. I think a part of her knows what she has, because she's still in it and has been devotedly for years. I think another part of her is still idealistic, still unsure what she wants or how her should relationship should look, or how to be happy with what she has here and now. I guess we'll see if that gets explored this season or not.

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What do you think they are shooting at the Angels game on Sunday? I was hanging out on some other threads and the kiss cam thing was brought back up again. Anyone know if the cast is going to be there or are they just getting some technical shots?

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Sorry to hijack the thread for a moment, but she's not venturing anywhere else on the forum for the time being.

So please join me in saying a very Happy Birthday to our one and only:

Koops

 

Have a good one, Bestie.

 

 

tumblr_nbu3830cDi1rqftgjo1_500.jpg

 

And just to get it in first for next time: JINX.

Happy birthday, koopsie!!! :biggrin:

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