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[Spoilers]Shamy S8 Thread


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Hello!   Just wanted to come say hi, i'm still new to the forum.    I wanted to thank all the shamys for being so patient with me last night. Last night was big! I'm going to try to write more BTS

I'm still reeling, I cannot think straight today. Man, I can't believe how perfect this whole milestone was, and I can't believe how consistently good the writers are at knocking *every single milesto

THE FACE THE FACE THE FAAAAACCCCCEEEE  

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Happy birthday Dr. Koops!! :)

 

You guys and your posts affect me much stronger than you think, in a positive way:  I had a Shamy dream earlier this year - we were all singing Shamy songs and Koops was playing guitar and leading us to the Shamy songs. Then we watched some Shamy episodes together and we had a blast together. I don't know how I managed to dream all the people in our thread to be in one room and singing some of our beloved Shamy songs. Subconscious mind is miraculous.  ;) So thank you Koops and everybody else for your brilliant posts and please keep writing. :)

Edited by Catlina
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Thank you guys!!! :) I appreciate the hijacking! And that cod is just marvellous, Wio.

 

@Catlina: I do play guitar! That's quite a fitting dream you had, lol :) 

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Without girlfriends to talk plain about romance or the actual mechanics of sex or bitch about the ups and downs of their real relationships, any experience in an actual relationship much less a romantic one, and whatever things her mother was filling her head with, I truly cannot imagine how or why Amy would actually have a realistic impression or what romance, sex or love was about. And if her knowledge is based on the kind of things in romance novels (he played my body like a violin and I orgasmed a hundred times at his merest touch, at the heat in his eyes!) - I mean, God lord. No wonder the girl doesn't stand a chance.

 

It would be great if she's starting to get a clue from listening to Penny and Bernadette about what real romantic, sexual relationships are like; but Howard and Leonard are pretty doting boyfriends and she still sees them engaging in a lot of lovey dovey stuff. Even if the girls told her it wasn't completely normal, watching Howard and Bernadette on Valentine's Day or Leonard's devotion to keeping Penny happy and their very active sex life.....well, they could try to tell her "what's what" but Amy has plenty of reason to not believe them based on evidence she's actually witnessed.

 

 

That's a very important point about Amy, Lio. Penny, Bernadette and now, Emily live in a far different relationship world then Amy. The interfacing that these women have with their men is not available to her.

 

This is a bit of dialog from Season 5's "The Weekend Vortex:

 

Amy: How do I get him to treat me better?

Penny: All right. Let me give you a little girlfriend 101. Usually the first move out of the gate is you withhold sex, but that will work better after Sheldon hits puberty. So, I’d say give him the silent treatment.

Amy: No, he loves that.

 

In this exchange both Amy and Penny acknowledge Amy's dilemma with Sheldon. Unlike Penny, Bernadette and Emily, she does not have a doting, attentive man who responds to the "Whip", nor one who will respond to the non-sexual convention that women use to express their unhappiness to their man, silence. Sheldon responds somewhat, to making a scene, Penny's third suggestion. That has worked to move him a little (like the Valentine's train ride or the Thanksgiving dinner), but it can be measured in millimeters as the writers like to regress him after any major movement.

 

Amy can't use any other couple as a model since the man she loves is like no other.

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But Amy is also a woman like no other. I think one cannot look at Shamy simply as the regular girl in a relationship with a weirdo because she's no regular woman either. It's not just about poor Amy being stuck with a man that's hard to deal with. it's about not being able to use any other couple as a model because their *relationship* is like no other, not because the man only is like no other.

 

I think looking at things from their perspective, or Sheldon's perspective, can also highlight how dysfunctional and harmful classic communication methods in regular relationships are. Many of the ways Penny or Bernadette might suggest for dealing with men are not healthy and mature ways to deal with problems. Passive-aggressiveness and withholding sex are just rather pathetic way of trying to coerce the desired behavior out of their partner without really talking about the issue and that only work in the short-term. Sheldon and Amy work best with brutal honestly and by being direct, that's the way they've always achieved their biggest progress in their relationship, which is a healthier way to approach things anyway and one that it's more likely to be fruitful in the long run.

 

Yep, Amy is a woman like no other. She was "scientifically" selected for Sheldon thanks to Raj and Howard because no standard woman would tolerate Sheldon as a boyfriend for more than a few minutes. Penny and Bernadette are around him only because of their fiancee and husband, respectively. They think of him as an alien man-child to be nurtured or yelled at.  Neither is happy about the way Sheldon treats their men. And Sheldon was (or is) happy to be woman-less.

 

Sheldon and Amy do have a more direct, brutal honesty to their relationship but that doesn't mean Amy is happy about that. Over and Over again we are shown Amy as being envious of the relationships of Penny and Bernadette. She is not shown as getting validation that the Shamy approach to relationships will be good for her in the long run. What she sees is Penny being treated like a queen by Leonard and Bernadette having songs written for her by Howard. I'm sure she is starting to doubt if she will ever get that.

 

The best she can do is be satisfied by small gestures like a date night kiss between the "brutal honesty" sessions.

 

Edited by BangerMain

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I think that koops and Lio have both covered it very well. My only quibble about the romance and sex stalemate is that I am still not sure that Amy has a clear idea of what she means by the statement 'i deserve romance'. Or rather, she may, but how much of that is derived from the books in the library telling her what whores do, how much from Fabio, how much from Penny and Bernie, and how much what she actually, truly wants?

Amy's odd mixture of clinical detachment and florid fantasy is, to me, one of the more interesting takes on a female character in a mainstream show. On the one hand, it is vexing to see a smart woman so eagerly chase the tropes of trashy fiction, and on the other, it makes sense for a passionate, overachieving, highly- sheltered person to only ever have theoretical models of love or intimacy. Sometimes I wonder whether Amy pushes behaviours that she knows Sheldon will find outlandish, precisely because he'll never think to perform them, and Amy will be protected from romance herself.

But I am likely overthinking this.

ETA: Lio, I would love for Sheldon to turn into an eye- gazing, off-feet-sweeping, tinkly-music-playing Lothario, and for Amy to say 'er, who is this repulsive changeling and what has he done with my boyfriend?'

Edited by wowbagger
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 Sometimes I wonder whether Amy pushes behaviours that she knows Sheldon will find outlandish, precisely because he'll never think to perform them, and Amy will be protected from romance herself.

 

 

Tbh honest I've thought of that too. It's probably overthinking cause that's not how the joke works. Up to now the ''funny'' was that Amy that desperately wants things that Sheldon will never give her. But Amy doing something like that subconsciously sabotaging conventional romance wouldn't surprise me. We do know though that she likes the romance Sheldon has to offer and she embraces it every time it appears. So I think it's more of a mixture of confusion, inexperience, desire of something she doesn't really know what it is and maybe a well-established feeling inside her that she is not living everything she always wanted or was supposed to live. I always felt that she thinks she owes it to herself to live the ''normal stuff'' but she doesn't really want to. Something I often read about Amy is that when she dismissed the notion of romantic love she was in denial cause she secretly wanted everything (and it's something that the writers themselves implied with the teenage phase she went through cause she was excited to become a cool girl and that hasn't stop just look at the storyline that she enjoyes being the one closest to Penny and Bernie when they fight) but tbh I think that back then she had exactly what she wanted and only Sheldon was important enough to change what she wanted. But I think it's necessary for her to go through all that and make a full circle back to where she was all along. Not in her belief that love is unecessary but to who she truly is. She is quirky and odd, she thinks that binding is better than hot and her ultimate lovestory scenario is doing science with her boyfriend. As you guys said having her eventually achieve the conventional romance she seems to crave so much and figure out it's actually not for her would be both funny and a moment of growth for the character. I am not imlpying that she wants none of what she says that she wants but she is overreacting about one thing or two! That maybe a start for them to create a balance on that front. What works for them and how they experience it. And it could be tied with her being stiff when he kisses her if she starts considering that maybe she is overreacting about coitus too and she is not as ready or sure she will like it as she seems to be. I haven't gave up the cold feet scenario and I think it is probable.

 

Of course none of the above could happen unfortunately or not. It's entirely up to the writers but I think it could happen and be believable.

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Tbh honest I've thought of that too. It's probably overthinking cause that's not how the joke works. Up to now the ''funny'' was that Amy that desperately wants things that Sheldon will never give her. But Amy doing something like that subconsciously sabotaging conventional romance wouldn't surprise me. We do know though that she likes the romance Sheldon has to offer and she embraces it every time it appears. So I think it's more of a mixture of confusion, inexperience, desire of something she doesn't really know what it is and maybe a well-established feeling inside her that she is not living everything she always wanted or was supposed to live. I always felt that she thinks she owes it to herself to live the ''normal stuff'' but she doesn't really want to. Something I often read about Amy is that when she dismissed the notion of romantic love she was in denial cause she secretly wanted everything (and it's something that the writers themselves implied with the teenage phase she went through cause she was excited to become a cool girl and that hasn't stop just look at the storyline that she enjoyes being the one closest to Penny and Bernie when they fight) but tbh I think that back then she had exactly what she wanted and only Sheldon was important enough to change what she wanted. But I think it's necessary for her to go through all that and make a full circle back to where she was all along. Not in her belief that love is unecessary but to who she truly is. She is quirky and odd, she thinks that binding is better than hot and her ultimate lovestory scenario is doing science with her boyfriend. As you guys said having her eventually achieve the conventional romance she seems to crave so much and figure out it's actually not for her would be both funny and a moment of growth for the character. I am not imlpying that she wants none of what she says that she wants but she is overreacting about one thing or two! That maybe a start for them to create a balance on that front. What works for them and how they experience it. And it could be tied with her being stiff when he kisses her if she starts considering that maybe she is overreacting about coitus too and she is not as ready or sure she will like it as she seems to be. I haven't gave up the cold feet scenario and I think it is probable.

 

Of course none of the above could happen unfortunately or not. It's entirely up to the writers but I think it could happen and be believable.

 

So much boldness!!! I 100% agree with that. I think the whole idea that she was in denial all along is so cheap and simplistic and implies that nobody could possibly not want what everyone else has or wants and that if they claim they do it's just jealousy or envy or denial. Which is just... no. People CAN not want all of that, and even think it's stupid and meaningless. And people CAN change their minds about it when put in the circumstances that challenges their beliefs. It's no different from Sheldon never wanting a girlfriend, not caring about relationships, and then meeting Amy and realizing that actually, with her, it's pretty nice. Nobody claims Sheldon was in denial and actually wanted a woman all along, yet I see that tossed for Amy all the time.

 

I also don't think that the writers are implying that either with the point they often make about her delayed adolescence. If anything, I think they're implying the opposite. That Amy genuinely didn't want or cared about all that stuff, but when she got a taste of it she went "This is awesome!" and dived straight in. You don't need to re-write her whole backstory or ignore canon (i.e. S4) in order to explain why she's become the Amy we know now. Those changes are possible and very human. And I love your idea of Amy coming full circle to grow into an even newer Amy who is a blend of her new experiences and the core of what she's always been.

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So much boldness!!! I 100% agree with that. I think the whole idea that she was in denial all along is so cheap and simplistic and implies that nobody could possibly not want what everyone else has or wants and that if they claim they do it's just jealousy or envy or denial. Which is just... no. People CAN not want all of that, and even think it's stupid and meaningless. And people CAN change their minds about it when put in the circumstances that challenges their beliefs. It's no different from Sheldon never wanting a girlfriend, not caring about relationships, and then meeting Amy and realizing that actually, with her, it's pretty nice. Nobody claims Sheldon was in denial and actually wanted a woman all along, yet I see that tossed for Amy all the time.

 

I also don't think that the writers are implying that either with the point they often make about her delayed adolescence. If anything, I think they're implying the opposite. That Amy genuinely didn't want or cared about all that stuff, but when she got a taste of it she went "This is awesome!" and dived straight in. You don't need to re-write her whole backstory or ignore canon (i.e. S4) in order to explain why she's become the Amy we know now. Those changes are possible and very human. And I love your idea of Amy coming full circle to grow into an even newer Amy who is a blend of her new experiences and the core of what she's always been.

 

It will be interesting to see if the writers will clarify this season what are Amy's true feelings on the type of romantic and sexual relationship she wants from Sheldon. We know what they have her talk about wanting but maybe they have some deeper agenda that is in some substrata of the text.

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I also think when (and I recognize this isn't happening anytime soon) they become a bit more physical that could put her desires for traditional girly romance at bay.

Now we all recognize that in those situations Amy might clam up and figure out that what she has thought she wanted is too real and more scary.

To her, from her warped thinking, she thinks romance and physical stuff means love. Remember he knows she loves him but I don't think she thinks he loves her back (all signs clearly point to yes whether he doesn't realize it or want to admit it yet)

So with that, I think once she gets a more clear firm confirmation of his feelings for her and they become more physical she may finally see the big picture and get it (and stop fooling herself into thinking she needs more of that unrealistic fluff).

Not to say she doesn't deserve romance but not to the unrealistic levels or pressures she puts out their considering her partners limits.

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I think a lot of the changes they have made in Amy (I.e. her need for girly romance) came about as necessary to keep her on the show. Mayim has said that when she first audition for the show it was to be a female Sheldon. At first that was exactly what she was. Robotic and cooly logical with no desires towards romance. Then when they saw the couple becoming a fan favorite they had to tweak her character a bit. The first we saw of this tweak was in Alien Parasite where she starts feeling desire and Sheldon gets his first taste of jealousy. In the end of that she held hands with Sheldon and said she felt nothing. Then it snowballed into the Agreement Dissection where she kisses Sheldon for the first time and we start seeing that she really does have romantic inclinations towards Sheldon.

They had to make Amy change and start wanting that kind of thing so it made sense. If neither of them changed and they kept their logical relationship of the mind in tact viewers would have gotten bored. There are far more opportunities for storylines and laughs with Amy scheming for romance and Sheldon resisting.

As far as where Amy got her romantic ideals I would say she has amalgamated ideals from Pop culture. Her mother my have sheltered her but she did not live under a rock until she met Sheldon. Whose mother didn't have a Fabio cheesy romance novel by her bedstand? She may have never seen Grease but she has surely seen other romantic movies and what they bill has romance. Not having had a normal adolescence she has taken these ideals as the norm and does not see them as unrealistic.

Edited by boys3allc
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Sheldon has not yet  recognized  what  AMY really means to him. In is mind she is his woman and his princess (he himself bought the tiara for her three years ago), but he is not able (yet) to put his real feelings in words, in front of her and his friends! :secret:

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I think a lot of the changes they have made in Amy (I.e. her need for girly romance) came about as necessary to keep her on the show. Mayim has said that when she first audition for the show it was to be a female Sheldon. At first that was exactly what she was. Robotic and cooly logical with no desires towards romance. Then when they saw the couple becoming a fan favorite they had to tweak her character a bit. The first we saw of this tweak was in Alien Parasite where she starts feeling desire and Sheldon gets his first taste of jealousy. In the end of that she held hands with Sheldon and said she felt nothing. Then it snowballed into the Agreement Dissection where she kisses Sheldon for the first time and we start seeing that she really does have romantic inclinations towards Sheldon.

They had to make Amy change and start wanting that kind of thing so it made sense. If neither of them changed and they kept their logical relationship of the mind in tact viewers would have gotten bored. There are far more opportunities for storylines and laughs with Amy scheming for romance and Sheldon resisting.

As far as where Amy got her romantic ideals I would say she has amalgamated ideals from Pop culture. Her mother my have sheltered her but she did not live under a rock until she met Sheldon. Whose mother didn't have a Fabio cheesy romance novel by her bedstand? She may have never seen Grease but she has surely seen other romantic movies and what they bill has romance. Not having had a normal adolescence she has taken these ideals as the norm and does not see them as unrealistic.

Excllence!!!  Amy wants life expericence, and the only way to observe or experience something is to go out and get it/do it. No amount of data is gonna give you knowledge into something like that. She just might find she doesn't like it, but she craves the experience.

 

There is a poem that reminds me of Shamy in relation to this actually.

Edited by EvilStewie
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