Ship Zone [Spoilers]Leonard And Penny Season 8 Thread

[DaisyJane]

And as long as Penny remains the independent girl I came to know and love I'm happy. How tragic and pitiful it would have been to see her dependent on Leonard.

Edited July 24, 2014 by DaisyJane

[Tensor]

I think the dignity and independence that comes from earning your own way in life will outweigh whatever arbitrary "passion" she may have for acting. The alternative is to continue pursuing something she may or may not succeed in while depending on Leonard like a child does their parent, which sounds like a pretty miserable life that would most likely breed resentment in both of them. 

 

This again?  When are you going to give an explanation as to how you think my daughter was depending on her husband(before he was her husband or even fiancé), for support is like a parent supporting a child, when she know if she was going to succeed in her acting career.   And care to explain why they seem to be so happy, without any kind of resentment that I can see?  If anything, since she became more successful, it's more stressful, as she is away more.   Why do you think that with two people in a committed relationship, one supporting the other while the other chases a dream or another line of work is so terrible? 

[Nogravitasatall]

And as long as Penny remains the independent girl I came to know and love I'm happy. How tragic and pitiful it would have been to see her dependent on Leonard.

It is hard to be entirely independent and married. One of the reasons that marriage equality is such an issue that people want recognition of their mutual dependence - beyond the fiscal issues. If you are saying Penny needs to independent of Leonard entirely then that covers so many issues its difficult for me to see why they would marry.

However, what we are likely to see is that their mutual dependence has supported Penny through her challenging time and she is able to go on and upwards, having benefited from his support. And if he gets blown up (hello 5) or breaks down, he can depend on her in turn. This is my experience anyway, 24 years in.

I didn't ever think they intended to portray her as a dependent homemaker, which is still a valid choice, for those who so choose.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Nogravitasatall

[3ku11]

Penny I feel lost her independence when she started relying on the support of the guys particularly Leonard even way back in S1. But for the record I don't see Penny falling back on Leonard, or relying on Leonard for financial support a bad thing. He is not her sugar daddy, he is not her father, he is her boyfriend/finance. Their seems to be no resentment in doing so from both parties, they are in a requited/equal partnership. It would be different if they were just friends, but they are not. I just don't see relying on someone even for financial support as a flaw or a negative, as strong willed and independent as Penny is, it is a big step and a big change for her to be soley relying on someone else. Regardless if she is poor or rich, she can't be mutually independent but also soley independent, she is not single anymore, and Penny choose to be with Leonard, everything she does now affects their relationship, so falling back on Leonard for financial support is not really not being independent but being mutually independent. And I agree this storyline is just a plot device, to give Penny a sense of success and autonomy, which she sorley needed. Maybe with the necessary confidence, and money in the future she may pursue an acting career, however know one knows how long this Pharm Rep thing well last for, could be one episode could be three. 

Edited July 24, 2014 by 3ku11

[Nogravitasatall]

If I have to be completely honest, if I had been trying to succeed at something for 10 years and hadn't got there .

sidebar: hehehe, This is like a norm in the film industry in Oz

[Itwasdestined]

sidebar: hehehe, This is like a norm in the film industry in Oz

More like 20 years! That why I dropped drama at high school!

It is hard to be entirely independent and married. One of the reasons that marriage equality is such an issue that people want recognition of their mutual dependence - beyond the fiscal issues. If you are saying Penny needs to independent of Leonard entirely then that covers so many issues its difficult for me to see why they would marry.

However, what we are likely to see is that their mutual dependence has supported Penny through her challenging time and she is able to go on and upwards, having benefited from his support. And if he gets blown up (hello 5) or breaks down, he can depend on her in turn. This is my experience anyway, 24 years in.

I didn't ever think they intended to portray her as a dependent homemaker, which is still a valid choice, for those who so choose.

I remember this "us married men vs the rest" discussion re: dependence on Leonard back during the Engagement episode thread. Do we get our Copy-Paste keyboard shortcuts ready to rehash our posts?

[Tensor]

More like 20 years! That why I dropped drama at high school!

I remember this "us married men vs the rest" discussion re: dependence on Leonard back during the Engagement episode thread. Do we get our Copy-Paste keyboard shortcuts ready to rehash our posts?

 

I prefer using my trackpad.  

[Itwasdestined]

And as long as Penny remains the independent girl I came to know and love I'm happy. How tragic and pitiful it would have been to see her dependent on Leonard.

Tragic and pitiful is on the far side of hyperbolic when describing a married couple supporting each other - either way.

[Nogravitasatall]

More like 20 years! That why I dropped drama at high school!

I remember this "us married men vs the rest" discussion re: dependence on Leonard back during the Engagement episode thread. Do we get our Copy-Paste keyboard shortcuts ready to rehash our posts?

... Well its ok if you can remember what was said...

DJ has a point of view and so do I. And posts aren't rationed. LOL.

BUT I'm not going to be critical until I see how it plays out. I guess the one thing I hate is if one partner sides with someone outside the pairing. I hated Penny and Leonard's mum siding against him, and disliked Penny running off with Sheldon because Leonard ticked her off. Its a challenge, because the two are different and Commerce vs Science can get ugly, if that's where this might go.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Nogravitasatall

[3ku11]

... Well its ok if you can remember what was said...

DJ has a point of view and so do I. And posts aren't rationed. LOL.

BUT I'm not going to be critical until I see how it plays out. I guess the one thing I hate is if one partner sides with someone outside the pairing. I hated Penny and Leonard's mum siding against him, and disliked Penny running off with Sheldon because Leonard ticked her off. Its a challenge, because the two are different and Commerce vs Science can get ugly, if that's where this might go.

 

I also hated in S3 when Penny took Leonard's mother out to a bar and got her drunk, when Leonard was upset over his dog dieing and his parents getting divorced haha. But I guess I just tell myself that is an endering trait to her character, this is not a rom com, Shock Comedy e.t.c. Fortunately Penny has improved in that area, ala letting the Hulk R.I.P, and showing more affection. Although I wasen't surprised Bev sided againgst Leonard, hasen't she been doing that his entire life? haha. But I think this career change maybe a positive for Penny.

[Hillo]

I only have a high school diploma with a handful of basic college classes completed, yet I've been working as a computer programmer for over 30 years, specializing in everything from embedded systems to sophisticated desktop applications, and even some web-based application development. Simply put, extensive education and a college degree isn't a prerequesite for being skilled at something.

 

Like others have already said, let's wait and actually see what transpires before passing judgment and writing the whole thing off. There've been plenty of times where people (in these forums and elsewhere) jumped to all sorts of conclusions about something, only to find that the actual end product was much different (and often better) than they convinced themselves it would be. How many times do people need to learn this lesson before it actually sinks in?

 

Back in the day, I worked a lot as a Sales Engineer (SE) for software and computer hardware vendors.  I supported pre and post-sales.  I worked with Sales Reps a lot and saw that they had a tough job that I'd describe as:

 

- Sweet-talk, cajole, scare, intimidate, and otherwise psychologically manipulate clients without let-up.

 

- Hold your ground when the clients try and do the same thing to you.

 

- Whenever possible, make sure you have an SE with you when dealing with a client and let the SE answer all the tech questions.

 

- When you don't have an SE at your side, say, "We'll get back to you.",  whenever discussing anything with a client other than the weather and make sure an SE actually does it.  Never, please, please, never try to answer a tech question yourself.

 

Besides having a thick skin and a predator's instinct, these reps had to be pretty extensively and almost continuously trained by their companies so they could participate in presentations, knew what questions not to answer, and had some idea what  schemes clients might try and run on them, 'cause clients are evil.

 

If big Pharma is anything like this, Penny isn't a bad candidate.  She could have some problems since she seems easily bored and her emotional shields aren't that strong.  She does have a bit of a temper which sometimes actually helps on the intimidation side.

[DaisyJane]

Back in the day, I worked a lot as a Sales Engineer (SE) for software and computer hardware vendors.  I supported pre and post-sales.  I worked with Sales Reps a lot and saw that they had a tough job that I'd describe as:

 

- Sweet-talk, cajole, scare, intimidate, and otherwise psychologically manipulate clients without let-up.

 

- Hold your ground when the clients try and do the same thing to you.

 

- Whenever possible, make sure you have an SE with you when dealing with a client and let the SE answer all the tech questions.

 

- When you don't have an SE at your side, say, "We'll get back to you.",  whenever discussing anything with a client other than the weather and make sure an SE actually does it.  Never, please, please, never try to answer a tech question yourself.

 

Besides having a thick skin and a predator's instinct, these reps had to be pretty extensively and almost continuously trained by their companies so they could participate in presentations, knew what questions not to answer, and had some idea what  schemes clients might try and run on them, 'cause clients are evil.

 

If big Pharma is anything like this, Penny isn't a bad candidate.  She could have some problems since she seems easily bored and her emotional shields aren't that strong.  She does have a bit of a temper which sometimes actually helps on the intimidation side.

 

 

Give her some on-the-job training and I think she'll be more than good to go. Working in sales often requires you do a fair bit of acting. 

[BangerMain]

Give her some on-the-job training and I think she'll be more than good to go. Working in sales often requires you do a fair bit of acting. 

 

This is so true. Having worked as a System Engineer in the marketing division of the gigantic computer company for 25 years, the best salespersons I saw were really great actors.

 

When I read of Chuck Lorre's tease about Penny's story arc for this season being a saleswoman for Big Pharma, my first thought was, If they give her a good script (sales material) and some assistance with the supporting roles (technical personnel) she can be a "star". Sales is mainly about getting customers to like you. At that, Penny's cup runneth over with talent.

 

And by the way. Has anyone seen the typical saleswomen for Big Pharma? Penny's a natural.

Edited July 25, 2014 by BangerMain

[3ku11]

This is so true. Having worked as a System Engineer in the marketing division of the gigantic computer company for 25 years, the best salesman I saw were really great actors.

 

When I read of Chuck Lorre's tease about Penny's story arc for this season being a salesman for Big Pharma, my first thought was, If they give her a good script (sales material) and some assistance with the supporting roles (technical personnel) she can be a "star". Sales is mainly about getting customers to like you. At that, Penny's cup runneth over with talent.

 

And by the way. Has anyone seen the typical sales women for Big Pharma? Penny's a natural.

 

Maybe she could become the face for their industry, and model for the adverts, oh the possibilities.

[Tensor]

I moved one post due to it being inappropriate for this thread, it was not supportive of the Leonard and Penny couple.  I moved three other posts as they were answers to the inappropriate post.  They can be found in the Season 8 discussion thread.

[cAntonio Santos]

With her new job, she can become silicon valley millionaire with Leonard running the science division. But no break up talk here, just bliss for them. ; )

[cAntonio Santos]

In the end I think Penny will realize her dream of acting, she will her break.  The pharm sells thing is just temporary fix, wont last. Penny and pharmaceuticals = Mars is populated with people.  GO LENNY

[3ku11]

In the end I think Penny will realize her dream of acting, she will her break.  The pharm sells thing is just temporary fix, wont last. Penny and pharmaceuticals = Mars is populated with people.  GO LENNY

 

Yeah somehow I don't think this well be Penny's calling card, she has finally found her passion for Pharmaceuticals . This is just a means to an end, the writers needed to give her some sense of success and autonomy, something that is separate from her relationship with Leonard and her friends, and brings balance to her life, woulden't rule out her acting career just yet. Who knows while she is getting rich being a Sales Rep, Serial Apist could be busy becoming an social media/cult hit.

Edited July 25, 2014 by 3ku11

[Taperoo]

I could really see this job as a source of conflict for Lenny, for several reasons:

1. Penny is going to look adorable going to work each day in her short hair and business attire.

2. Penny will be dealing with a lot of doctors, some single or want to be, and some handsome, all with money.

3. Sales representatives wine and dine their clients, so she will be going to lunch and some dinners with mostly men (some women ).

4. Sales people go to conventions.

5. Penny could make a lot of money.

These are off the top of my head. I could see Penny really getting into this work. What could make things worse is if she suddenly needs reading glasses, Leonard will die.

 

Those are good reasons as to why there could be conflict between them. Career changes can be difficult things for couples to navigate sometimes as it

upsets the balance of a relationship. Money may come up as a reason for the conflict, but scratch beneath the surface and other issues will likely

be uncovered and dealt with by Lenny as they crop up.

 

I have been thinking about this a lot, and I was wondering a few things, why are we getting this from Lorre, isn't he suppose to be having less to do with the show to work his other projects?  Haven't we been told that the writers only plan a couple of episodes ahead, where did this major story arch come from, are we to believe they are planning the whole season now?  Or are we getting another Katie moment from Lorre, they now have three more seasons so he wants to shake things up, maybe trying to convert the show back to his original concept?  Penny and Leonard are now engaged, if they screw this up, do the writers really think there is a recovery for Lenny?  There is a lot of unanswered questions with this spoiler and none of it is good for Lenny and what makes me cringe is it all is coming from Lorre.

 

Lorre might be less hands on, but he can if he wants to, set the tone for each season and sketch out a few ideas for the characters and then

leave it to the writers to develop things from there. Joss Whedon became less hands on with Buffy in later years ( due to Angel, Firefly etc), but he still controlled the show's

direction and tone. Which is what Lorre is likely doing here, making sure the show is ticking along nicely. 

 

 

Really Penny will probably be hit on more in that job, so it could give the writers the opportunity to have Penny stand up for her man.  It would be really funny if a handsome married doctor kept hitting on her, so she finally agreed to have a business dinner with him and brought Leonard along.  It would be even funnier if she invited the guys wife, then sort of made little remarks during dinner to blackmail him into a big order.

 

There will probably be some comedy gold to be had out of Penny securing big deals, probably with Bernadette tagging along. While Leonard and Howard worry about what they are upto etc

 

I think the dignity and independence that comes from earning your own way in life will outweigh whatever arbitrary "passion" she may have for acting. The alternative is to continue pursuing something she may or may not succeed in while depending on Leonard like a child does their parent, which sounds like a pretty miserable life that would most likely breed resentment in both of them. 

 

To couples that are deeply in love, passion usually outweighs what each other earns. Penny is independent, she moved to LA to pursue her dream and ended up

falling for Leonard (which is probably the last thing she expected).

 

 

This again?  When are you going to give an explanation as to how you think my daughter was depending on her husband(before he was her husband or even fiancé), for support is like a parent supporting a child, when she know if she was going to succeed in her acting career.   And care to explain why they seem to be so happy, without any kind of resentment that I can see?  If anything, since she became more successful, it's more stressful, as she is away more.   Why do you think that with two people in a committed relationship, one supporting the other while the other chases a dream or another line of work is so terrible? 

 

The relationships that survive and flourish are usually the ones where the couples adapt to changes put in front of them as a team. Which is what Penny and Leonard will do in the end.

Penny changing from acting to Sales will probably take both them a bit of time to adjust to. Do I think this is the end of Penny's acting dream ? I don't think it is, it's just a way for the writers to change the dynamics between Leonard and Penny to explore different aspects of the relationship. Which is no bad thing really. Acting will likely rear it's head nearer to the end of the show.

[cAntonio Santos]

Penny will become a millionaire because Bernadette discovers some kind of wonder drug, Penny upgrades her living situation by moving to Beverly Hills; so then Leonard has to check with Penny if she has time for him anymore.  He can visit Penny at her new house on scheduled based appointments only and that schedule given to Leonard by Penny. Then Leonard needs to upgrade from  his average ride " car " to a hot ride, to a luxury sedan, SUV (Escalade) or muscle car level.   ( I m a gearhead )  Leonard will really need to upgrade is clothing style, go to the gym and get a six pack and become lean muscled a bit, become like his married physicist friend. If not, then Leonard will not be able to compete for Penny's attention because all those doctors with money will  have their eye on heer. Of course Leonard needs money for his transformation to a Strawberry Pop Tart from a muffin that gives Penny indigestion. (engagement episode )  ; ) So he better procure substantial more grant money so he can do more applied physics research; or go for tenure or become president of the university.  One thing I would like to see is if something bad happens to Leonard career or family wise and see how Penny copes with that.  Will the dollar signs get to her head?  Some of this might be Twilight Zone some might not, open for interpretation.

[Tonstar17]

Penny will become a millionaire because Bernadette discovers some kind of wonder drug, Penny upgrades her living situation by moving to Beverly Hills; so then Leonard has to check with Penny if she has time for him anymore. He can visit Penny at her new house on scheduled based appointments only and that schedule given to Leonard by Penny. Then Leonard needs to upgrade from his average ride " car " to a hot ride, to a luxury sedan, SUV (Escalade) or muscle car level. ( I m a gearhead ) Leonard will really need to upgrade is clothing style, go to the gym and get a six pack and become lean muscled a bit, become like his married physicist friend. If not, then Leonard will not be able to compete for Penny's attention because all those doctors with money will have their eye on heer. Of course Leonard needs money for his transformation to a Strawberry Pop Tart from a muffin that gives Penny indigestion. (engagement episode ) ; ) So he better procure substantial more grant money so he can do more applied physics research; or go for tenure or become president of the university. One thing I would like to see is if something bad happens to Leonard career or family wise and see how Penny copes with that. Will the dollar signs get to her head? Some of this might be Twilight Zone some might not, open for interpretation.

Yeah, with all her fortune. penny decides to upgrade her relationship status from dating a doctorate to a real doctor. Definitely twilight zone territory.

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[cAntonio Santos]

yep  I know : ) hey endless possibilities for Lenny.  I find It really odd the writers giving Penny a pharmaceutical rep job, not because of her ability.  I have always found Penny to be very smart albeit the writers portrayed her as a ' dumb blond " which to me is really sexist.  But to me Penny and pharm rep don't mix, like seeing Leonard in the catwalk for haute couture, very odd. The oddest move by the writers on TBBT other than when Penny slept with Raj, to this day, that was revolting.

[Tonstar17]

Yeah I thought it was weird too, but after thinking about it something clicked. Penny in an actress and a good one at that. With sales reps it's all about confidence and acting to sell your product, penny has both and I really think she will be good at it.Using her acting skills with a bit of street smarts and some nerdy talk, cuteness, adorable and drop dead gorgeous, she will be a smash hit.

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[Itwasdestined]

Penny will become a millionaire because Bernadette discovers some kind of wonder drug, Penny upgrades her living situation by moving to Beverly Hills; so then Leonard has to check with Penny if she has time for him anymore. He can visit Penny at her new house on scheduled based appointments only and that schedule given to Leonard by Penny. Then Leonard needs to upgrade from his average ride " car " to a hot ride, to a luxury sedan, SUV (Escalade) or muscle car level. ( I m a gearhead ) Leonard will really need to upgrade is clothing style, go to the gym and get a six pack and become lean muscled a bit, become like his married physicist friend. If not, then Leonard will not be able to compete for Penny's attention because all those doctors with money will have their eye on heer. Of course Leonard needs money for his transformation to a Strawberry Pop Tart from a muffin that gives Penny indigestion. (engagement episode ) ; ) So he better procure substantial more grant money so he can do more applied physics research; or go for tenure or become president of the university. One thing I would like to see is if something bad happens to Leonard career or family wise and see how Penny copes with that. Will the dollar signs get to her head? Some of this might be Twilight Zone some might not, open for interpretation.

Did you take a marijuana?

[Tensor]

Did you take a marijuana?

 

No, hit on her head with a coconut.