S8 Discussion Thread

[BespectacledBrunette]

You haven't been here very long, have you? There were plenty of complaints prior to this season. Why, for instance, was Sheldon in the car when Leonard was leaving at the end of season six? What should have been a touching moment between Leonard and Penny was, in a lot of peoples minds, ruined by inserting Sheldon where he shouldn't have been.

Let's flip of these around, shall we? How happy would many of the Shamy's have been if Leonard was in the middle of the scene making comments about how they were in his way, during Sheldon and Amy''s "I love you too," scene? Do you think fans of Sheldon and Amy would have quietly accepted it?

How about we have Leonard, in the middle of Sheldon making Amy his emergency contact come out of his room and start demanding they take his feelings into account before changing that? Do you think that might have ruined the scene for many of the fans of Sheldon and Amy? Like Sheldon did when he demanded to know where Lenny's relationship was going. How would that have went over with the Shamy's?

Or, how about during their first SIK, we have Leonard come out and start trying to tell a joke right in the middle of the kiss? You know, like Sheldon did in the middle of Penny's first proposal. That's what a lot of people mean by the Sheldon Show. Why was he even in those scenes? Only thing I can think of is to get Sheldon in the scene. That's it. There is no reason for Sheldon to be in any of those scenes, other than they want to have him in the scene, in effect making it the Sheldon show. If you can think of another reason for him to be there, I'm sure there are a lot of people here who would love for you to explain it.

I have no problem with the emphasis on Sheldon or Sheldon and Amy this year, as they have things to work out, much like the emphasis was on Leonard and Penny in season six. But, don't try to say there weren't any complaints before this about the Sheldon Show.

Requiring Leonard and Penny to wait for Shamy progress is making the show Sheldon centric.

 

When they insert him into a Leonard and Penny scene over and over again, for no good reason, yes it does take away from the others(see above)

I was under the impression that we were simply talking about the balance of showing the different characters, particularly in recent episodes, not trying to start some sort of Lenny vs. Shamy throwdown.  For the record, I agree that Sheldon frequently interrupts Lenny moments when he really shouldn't be in the scene.

Perhaps I just wasn't clear when I said "I see the complaints..."  I meant that as "I understand the complaints," not that I literally had not seen anyone complaining.  My apologies.

[On a complete side note: why does there seem to be an implicit assumption that Sheldon/Shamy fans are anti-Lenny?  Because at least with me that's decidedly not the case, and it's a little tiring to hear these kinds of assumptions made over and over any time I step outside the Ship Zone no matter how balanced I try to make my comments.]

Edited November 24, 2014 by BespectacledBrunette

[3ku11]

I was under the impression that we were simply talking about the balance of showing the different characters, particularly in recent episodes, not trying to start some sort of Lenny vs. Shamy throwdown. For the record, I agree that Sheldon frequently interrupts Lenny moments when he really shouldn't be in the scene.

Perhaps I just wasn't clear when I said "I see the complaints..." I meant that as "I understand the complaints," not that I literally had not seen anyone complaining. My apologies.

[On a complete side note: why does there seem to be an implicit assumption that Sheldon/Shamy fans are anti-Lenny? Because at least with me that's decidedly not the case, and it's a little tiring to hear these kinds of assumptions made over and over any time I step outside the Ship Zone no matter how balanced I try to make my comments.]

I dont think Shamy fans are anti Lenny. More fans clash over different perspectives. Lenny well always be the core couple, no matter what your preferences are. But they both are reliant on each other. I think Tensors point. Was that you implied this is a new argument with no prior mentions. Which is not true. The issue some are making, is isolating Sheldon where he is not neccessarily needed. Like Lenny airport scene. He kinda got in the way, although funny was out of place. Which drives some to think from a writing perspective it has become the Sheldon Show. Even though the plots the past few weeks, have not been completly Sheldon centric at all.

[phantagrae]

You haven't been here very long, have you? There were plenty of complaints prior to this season. Why, for instance, was Sheldon in the car when Leonard was leaving at the end of season six? What should have been a touching moment between Leonard and Penny was, in a lot of peoples minds, ruined by inserting Sheldon where he shouldn't have been.Let's flip of these around, shall we? How happy would many of the Shamy's have been if Leonard was in the middle of the scene making comments about how they were in his way, during Sheldon and Amy''s "I love you too," scene? Do you think fans of Sheldon and Amy would have quietly accepted it?How about we have Leonard, in the middle of Sheldon making Amy his emergency contact come out of his room and start demanding they take his feelings into account before changing that? Do you think that might have ruined the scene for many of the fans of Sheldon and Amy? Like Sheldon did when he demanded to know where Lenny's relationship was going. How would that have went over with the Shamy's?Or, how about during their first SIK, we have Leonard come out and start trying to tell a joke right in the middle of the kiss? You know, like Sheldon did in the middle of Penny's first proposal. That's what a lot of people mean by the Sheldon Show. Why was he even in those scenes? Only thing I can think of is to get Sheldon in the scene. That's it. There is no reason for Sheldon to be in any of those scenes, other than they want to have him in the scene, in effect making it the Sheldon show. If you can think of another reason for him to be there, I'm sure there are a lot of people here who would love for you to explain it.I have no problem with the emphasis on Sheldon or Sheldon and Amy this year, as they have things to work out, much like the emphasis was on Leonard and Penny in season six. But, don't try to say there weren't any complaints before this about the Sheldon Show.Requiring Leonard and Penny to wait for Shamy progress is making the show Sheldon centric. When they insert him into a Leonard and Penny scene over and over again, for no good reason, yes it does take away from the others(see above)

I think that part of Sheldon being part of so many L/P scenes is that he does factor into their relationship because of his relationship and dependence on Leonard. He tagged along to the airport because Leonard is his best friend. That he interrupted the goodbyes was part of the writers sense of breaking the serious scenes with a joke. If it had been just Leonard and Penny, yes, it would have been perhaps more "tender", but obviously the writers didn't want a heavy romantic scene in that moment.

When Penny said her ILY, they were alone and had their moment. No Sheldon to be seen.

I think that some of the problem is that some fans imagine some scenes very differently than the writers intend or imagine them.

As for Leonard being inserted into Shamy scenes, the reason such things don't happen is that Leonard doesn't feel the same way about Sheldon that Sheldon feels about Leonard, and isn't concerned with how the Shamy relationship will affect his life, while Sheldon is very concerned with how the Lenny relationship will affect his life.

As for Penny's proposal and Sheldon interrupting it, I think one of the reasons is that it wasn't going to be the real proposal for the couple. When they finally had their real proposal, they were all alone and no one interrupted them.

I don't think it's the Sheldon show. But his character is so strong and so much quirkier that there is a lot of gold to mine in that vein. And since the show is a comedy, they're going to look for funny things to do with all the characters.

Someone mentioned that the Septum Deviation should have been about Penny taking care of Leonard. Um, how would that be funny? I think Sheldon's White Board of Death was very funny--and it's typical of his character to be paranoid about such things. And that was the story they wanted to tell. I don't think it's about just randomly inserting Sheldon into stories that should be only about Leonard or Leonard and Penny. I think that the stories evolve out of who the characters are and how their actions and decisions affect each other, with Leonard and Sheldon being the most obvious example.

I think that when it's time for the important moments, they all get their due.

[Tensor]

I was under the impression that we were simply talking about the balance of showing the different characters, particularly in recent episodes, not trying to start some sort of Lenny vs. Shamy throwdown.

There's no throw down, just trying to explain the "Sheldon show" thing and let you know there have been complaints.

 

For the record, I agree that Sheldon frequently interrupts Lenny moments when he really shouldn't be in the scene.

And this is what makes it the Sheldon Show, to the Lenny followers, more than any screen time thing. For instance, can you name a episode that was focused on Leonard's work the way "The Romance Resonance", "The Discovery Dissipation" or "The Relationship Diremption" was focused on Sheldon's? For instance, in arguably Leonard's biggest work episode, so far, he was asked to go along on the expedition to the North Sea, but we never found out what he was going to be doing as part of that team. The whole episode centered on how Sheldon was jealous of Leonard and how worried he was about how it would affect him.

 

Perhaps I just wasn't clear when I said "I see the complaints..."  I meant that as "I understand the complaints," not that I literally had not saw anyone complaining.

Thanks, I was just replying to the "not seeing complaints" to let you know there were complaints and try to explain the why of the complaints.

[djsurrey]

I have heard the complaints before. I was just surprised it came up now specifically after this episode. Leonard and Penny had separate stories unrelated to Sheldon.  They appear to want to advance Pennies career story arc. People have also said here that they would like Penny to have some success career wise and that seems to b happening. Also it appeared that Penny and Leonard had some quite time together on the roof in the prom episode. I expect Lenny will get more attention in the new year.

[Nogravitasatall]

Well if we're looking at it that way, then I'm amazed people have stuck around past episode 4...

I can admit that there's been a lot of emphasis Sheldon so far in Season 8, but I don't really see the complaints prior to that. Personally, I think the show generally does a great job balancing the ensemble's screentime.

He did breakout at around ep4, and at the time it was novel. They made a creative discovery that resonated with the audience. Since then they have been a bit relentless with deploying him, because he very broadly works and they have a formula - do something then look at Sheldon. And that can be fine. I can say it wouldn't be TBBT if Sheldon just said to Leonard "Yes, lets do it your way" and then he ran along behind and helped. Whatever scene Sheldon is in, the pivot is "How does this affect Sheldon", no matter what is happening in terms of the wider story.

Its hard to watch sometimes if they have beaten out the love at the same time. They have softened him now, and he is currently not quite the arse he has been. And they all owe him their fortunes. But he doesn't have universal appeal all the time because he has more than occasionally acted like Speckerman and for me that is an issue.

Again, it it what it it. A real thing.

[Tensor]

I think that part of Sheldon being part of so many L/P scenes is that he does factor into their relationship because of his relationship and dependence on Leonard.

Exactly, That's why it can appear to be the Sheldon Show.

 

He tagged along to the airport because Leonard is his best friend.

Why? He couldn't say goodbye at the apartment? And Leonard really looked happy that he was there, didn't he?

 

That he interrupted the goodbyes was part of the writers sense of breaking the serious scenes with a joke. If it had been just Leonard and Penny, yes, it would have been perhaps more "tender", but obviously the writers didn't want a heavy romantic scene in that moment.

But they are OK with running a heavy romantic moment with Sheldon and Amy, without interruption. How does that not make it

 

When Penny said her ILY, they were alone and had their moment. No Sheldon to be seen.

And for the most romantic moment of that whole thing, they weren't together and it wasn't even in the hall.

 

I think that some of the problem is that some fans imagine some scenes very differently than the writers intend or imagine them.

You can say that about any of the fans and especially fans that have a ship they enjoy. How many Lenny's had a problem with Sheldon calling Leonard to come and get him in Arizona. How many Shamy's had a big problem with it? I seem to remember you were upset about the line where Leonard suggested that Sheldon move to 4B, I really had no though about it, until I saw the complaints about it. And I never had a problem with Sheldon leaving without calling Amy.

 

As for Leonard being inserted into Shamy scenes, the reason such things don't happen is that Leonard doesn't feel the same way about Sheldon that Sheldon feels about Leonard, and isn't concerned with how the Shamy relationship will affect his life, while Sheldon is very concerned with how the Lenny relationship will affect his life.

Exactly, they write Sheldon into scenes where they wouldn't write Leonard if it was turned around. How does that not make it appear to be the Sheldon show? But, I suppose, if your ship's moments aren't getting interrupted, then there's nothing to complain about, is there?

 

As for Penny's proposal and Sheldon interrupting it, I think one of the reasons is that it wasn't going to be the real proposal for the couple.

Yep, Leonard turned down the proposal, now thinks they may be broken up, but let's bring Sheldon it to run off Penny and try to tell a joke. The scene doesn't really mean anything so it's OK to bring him in to interrupt. So, why did Sheldon have to be there at all, other than to insert him into the scene? How does it not make it appear to be the Sheldon Show?

 

When they finally had their real proposal, they were all alone and no one interrupted them.

Yeah, all they had them do was to argue for the first two and a half minutes, then had it seem as if they were both settling. Really romantic, except for the last thirty seconds.

 

I don't think it's the Sheldon show. But his character is so strong and so much quirkier that there is a lot of gold to mine in that vein. And since the show is a comedy, they're going to look for funny things to do with all the characters. Someone mentioned that the Septum Deviation should have been about Penny taking care of Leonard. Um, how would that be funny? I think Sheldon's White Board of Death was very funny--and it's typical of his character to be paranoid about such things. And that was the story they wanted to tell.

But it only seems to be funny to insert Sheldon into serious Lenard and Penny moments, but not the other way around for some reason. Either they can't seem to write the other way, or it's the we have to insert Sheldon here, because it's the Sheldon show.

They seemed to be able to make Sheldon taking care of Amy funny, without inserting Leonard into it. Are you saying they aren't good enough writers to make Penny taking care of Leonard funny?

I thought the white board was funny also, but it still doesn't mean he had to be at the hospital. Again, Leonard is getting surgery, but it's all about Sheldon's paranoia, how isn't that being the Sheldon show?

I've never said, and not saying that they aren't telling the story they want to tell, but that story includes a lot of insertions of Sheldon into a lot of Lenny scenes where he doesn't really belong or has any real reason to be in, from a storytelling standpoint. But, somehow, those same insertions don't happen with Leonard, again, how does that not seem to make it the Sheldon show?

 

I don't think it's about just randomly inserting Sheldon into stories that should be only about Leonard or Leonard and Penny. I think that the stories evolve out of who the characters are and how their actions and decisions affect each other, with Leonard and Sheldon being the most obvious example.

I think that when it's time for the important moments, they all get their due.

But it still ends up with Sheldon being inserted more than anyone else, even when he's not there. Like when Penny and Leonard were having dinner together, talking about their engagement and plans, a nice sweet moment. Suddenly Amy comes by to ask about Sheldon. I realize that we're never going to agree on this, and neither are the particular shippers. You and others interpret it your way, I and others see it a different way. Again, I have no problem with them concentrating on Sheldon and Shamy, There are real things they have to work on. it's the gratuitous dropping of him into other scenes that give the appearance, for me and the other that have complained about it, the appearance of the Sheldon Show.

[rachelshamyfan]

I love the "Sheldon show"! Gimme more of it!

[3ku11]

I love the "Sheldon show"! Gimme more of it!

You would say that. Personally I can take Sheldon in small doses. But I do agree with Nograv hes like Speckerman, can be too much of a bully to be as universally relatable as say Leonard. I guess tho if were using a Seinfeild ref. Sheldon is Kramer, Leonard is Jerry. But it is what it is.

[rachelshamyfan]

If he was that much of a bully do you really think the guys would hang around with him? Leonard if he hated it could always find someplace else to go but he doesn't because he understands his buddy

Sheldon is nothing like speckerman fcol

Shelnard !

Edited November 24, 2014 by rachelshamyfan

[Tonstar17]

If the show was based on facts. Leonard would have been out of there years ago, the only thing that kept Leonard there for so long... Is Penny.

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[hokie3457]

Thank you Tensor for explaining so well how many of us Leonard AND Leonard & Penny fans feel about The Sheldon Show. It is not a shipping matter. I LOVE the AFF character and her effect on SLC. It is the insertion again and again of Dr Cooper into nearly every situation concerning his roommate and his fiancé.

I know Sheldon fans will never see it this way because for them, the more Sheldon, the better. For me it's the opposite. Less is more.

Thanks again Tensor!

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Tapatalk

Edited November 24, 2014 by hokie3457

[Guest]

But they are OK with running a heavy romantic moment with Sheldon and Amy, without interruption.

 

Yep, I noticed that, too. And it makes me sick when I think about Lenny's wedding because I KNOW he will be there and I KNOW he will kinda try to ruin everything (again). Their scenes will be diminished and it's going to be all about Sheldon, how it affects HIM, how HE doesn't like it, and the big baby will get everyones' attention and consolation.

[nickelette424]

The interesting thing for me is that Sheldon had actually stayed out of Leonard and Penny's business this season. Name one intimate moment, emotional or otherwise, that Sheldon has interrupted for them this season through 11 episodes. I just don't think the whole Sheldon getting in the way of Lenny currently an issue. For the most part Sheldon has stayed out of their way.

If your current complaint is that Sheldon/Jim gets to much screen time, that's one thing. If you think that Shamy is getting too much attention and Lenny is not, that's another. But I just don't think it is currently valid to bring up this, Sheldon is in the way of Lenny trope. Especially since Sheldon has been so obviously preoccupied with his own relationship.

[Guest]

The interesting thing for me is that Sheldon had actually stayed out of Leonard and Penny's business this season. Name one intimate moment, emotional or otherwise, that Sheldon has interrupted for them this season through 11 episodes. I just don't think the whole Sheldon getting in the way of Lenny currently an issue. For the most part Sheldon has stayed out of their way.

 

You might be right, but still, it happened way too many times in the past and I'm 100% sure it will happen again.

[3ku11]

Yep, I noticed that, too. And it makes me sick when I think about Lenny's wedding because I KNOW he will be there and I KNOW he will kinda try to ruin everything (again). Their scenes will be diminished and it's going to be all about Sheldon, how it affects HIM, how HE doesn't like it, and the big baby will get everyones' attention and consolation.

Look this is no slight towards Sheldon as a character. Hes hilarous clearly. But I agree this is NOT a shipping thing. It has to do with the insertion of Sheldon in every single scene. And how he observes human and relationship construct. And depending on who you are, that maybe great. But I do agree with the sentiment less is more when it comes to Sheldon. And I dont think this has anything to do with the past few weeks. Just generally the issue is the insertion from the writers in every single scene to make it all about Sheldon, even tho it was initially nothing to do with him in terms of the plot. And look if it was always like that in the beggining. But it has become increasingly obvious over the seasons. He takes up alot of room, then he used too. The airport scene is a perfect example. Even if they were going for tender or funny. Sheldon diddnt neccessarily need to be their, they could of done that at 4A. Then Lenny have their sweet moment at the airport.

Early years, Sheldon wasent such a monster that he is now. What I mean by that is that the needless need to be in scenes where as he is not needed. Like I said its not detrimental to the show, Sheldon is not so emphasized. But when it comes to specific scenes, Sheldon is becoming a third wheel particularly when it comes to Lenny. And Rach I never meant Sheldon is a bully overall or officially. I was just refering to Nograv saying Sheldon is not so universally relatable. As while the guys have accepted Sheldon for who he is. Its not like they have always put up with his obnoxious behaviour. I seem to remember in Staircase Implementation. When Raj and Howard first meet Sheldon. They couldent stand Sheldons incessant behaviour. I think one of them said "Your the one were trying to get away from". So its not like they have always wanted to hang out with him. Not to mention his bullying of Howard over the years. Like I said he has gotten better over the years, and this season so much nicer partic with Leonard.

Edited November 24, 2014 by 3ku11

[Kathy2611]

As a Shamy fan, I tend to agree with the Lenny's on how much Sheldon butts into Lenny's business too much. And yes, it did start getting ridiculous but I have noticed this season (thank God and it's about damn time) the writers have stopped doing it.

And even though I ship Shamy more than Lenny (I do ship them both though), I hope the writers have Sheldon just stand where he needs to and keep his damn mouth shut during the Lenny wedding!

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[nickelette424]

Look this is no slight towards Sheldon as a character. Hes hilarous clearly. But I agree this is NOT a shipping thing. It has to do with the insertion of Sheldon in every single scene. And how he observes human and relationship construct. And depending on who you are, that maybe great. But I do agree with the sentiment less is more when it comes to Sheldon. And I dont think this has anything to do with the past few weeks. Just generally the issue is the insertion from the writers in every single scene to make it all about Sheldon, even tho it was initially nothing to do with him in terms of the plot. And look if it was always like that in the beggining. But it has become increasingly obvious over the seasons. He takes up alot of room, then he used too. The airport scene is a perfect example. Even if they were going for tender or funny. Sheldon diddnt neccessarily need to be their, they could of done that at 4A. Then Lenny have their sweet moment at the airport.

Early years, Sheldon wasent such a monster that he is now. What I mean by that is that the needless need to be in scenes where as he is not needed. Like I said its not detrimental to the show, Sheldon is not so emphasized. But when it comes to specific scenes, Sheldon is becoming a third wheel particularly when it comes to Lenny. And Rach I never meant Sheldon is a bully overall or officially. I was just refering to Nograv saying Sheldon is not so universally relatable. As while the guys have accepted Sheldon for who he is. Its not like they have always put up with his obnoxious behaviour. I seem to remember in Staircase Implementation. When Raj and Howard first meet Sheldon. They couldent stand Sheldons incessant behaviour. I think one of them said "Your the one were trying to get away from". So its not like they have always wanted to hang out with him. Not to mention his bullying of Howard over the years. Like I said he has gotten better over the years, and this season so much nicer partic with Leonard.

This isn't actually happening. I mean, if Lenny fans are having some war type flashbacks, okay. But as things currently stand this season, which we are about half way through, Sheldon had not been inserted into other plots just to put him in a scene. It's just not happening. It didn't happen in this past episode. Is not happening in the coming episode. It didn't happen during the Prom episode, nor the one before that or the one before that. This point if contention is being exaggerated.

[tallin]

I don't see that  sorry. Only two episodes I would describe like that - Septum and First pitch... Shedon is now interacting most of the time with Amy and other characters not Lenny..

[kerrycec03]

I agree. In season 8 with the exception of Spectrum, Sheldon hasn't really been involved with Penny and Leonard. And the driving point of Spectrum wasn't to show a Lenny dynamic but to show the Leonard/Sheldon relationship as to what it is and has developed to.

[Tonstar17]

Ummm. I think you guys are going off... topic, discussions was about past seasons and it turning into the Sheldon show.

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[nickelette424]

No, the discussion started because someone was complaining about the last episode and others this season being the Sheldon show.

[tallin]

Ummm. I think you guys are going off... topic, discussions was about past seasons and it turning into the Sheldon show.

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To be honest I don't see that in season 7 very much either...and going even more back seems little bit pointless to me. All of them made big development, so I can't see a  how would something happening two years or more back effect show now. Of course only if  I'm assume you see it turning to Sheldon show in current season, not many  years ago....

[rachelshamyfan]

I will agree that the airport scene could of done without Sheldon there, the writers made him annoying and then let penny treat him like a baby with the stupid kids book when she went to see Raj

This season he is showing signs of growing up and I like that

I like Sheldon as a person

Edited November 24, 2014 by rachelshamyfan

[Tonstar17]

Of course you guys can't see it. No change there or suprised. Really, mostly all episodes so far this season has in some way being about Sheldon & his issues.But obviously as Sheldon fans, everyone else is wrong, like I said in earlier post. It's going to be the Sheldon show till the end of the series & the only thing I am looking forward to now is lennys wedding which he probably ruin & will be all about Sheldon. Wouldn't be suprised if he plans the wedding for them as well.

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