S8 Discussion Thread

[Chrismo]

Sheldon mentioned their relationship in two of 11 episodes. One in which he was just doing so to boast his own. There has been very little interaction between Sheldon and Lenny as a couple this season. Btw,I also don't think Sheldon encouraged the doctor to go after Penny.

Sheldon's exact words to Billy B was Lenny's relationship was "destined to fail".

[Mislav]

Sheldon's exact words to Billy B was Lenny's relationship was "destined to fail".

With emphasis on "was".

[nickelette424]

The problem with the episode for many Lenny fans is that most want Leonard and Penny living together. Episodes like this IMO send the Lenny relationship backwards. We know Sheldon and Leonard are best friends. We didn't need an episode to show us that. So Sheldon's antics did get in the way of Lenny moments especially at the end. It seems to me a better ending would of been Sheldon over at Amy's taking care of him and Penny taking care of Leonard at Penny's.

Well using your logic, we know Leonard and Penny are a couple. We don't need an episode to show us that. And sorry, I just don't see the step backward for Lenny here. They are fine and are on the track to get married. One episode where the Shelnard relationship is focused isn't gonna change that. And the scene with the 4 of them made sense with the rest of the episode, whether you agree with the premise of the episode or not.

[Chrismo]

With emphasis on "was".

I was wrong. He actually said "it's destined to fail".

[Mislav]

I was wrong. He actually said "it's destined to fail".

Which is his opinion, that is, obviously, wrong.

Heck, Penny wasn't even sure if Howard is the right one for Bernadette until he told that speech about how she made him a better man.

Also, Sheldon didn't know that doctor would go after Penny. Also, if Penny really loves Leonard, which she does, she wouldn't have called for that, and she didn't.

[Marina]

Leonard and Penny are currently engaged, obviously in love, and ​finally addressing the problems in their relationship like adults rather than resorting to pettiness like they used to (like Penny getting her essay done by Amy and Bernie and rubbing it in Leonard's face, or Leonard threatening Cole behind Penny's back). They've never been in a better place, and yet all I'm hearing from their shippers is complaining. Because... what, exactly? They haven't kissed for ten episodes? Lol, I wanna say, welcome to our life. 

[nickelette424]

Sheldon's exact words to Billy B was Lenny's relationship was "destined to fail".

So he offered his opinion that he thought the relationship wouldn't last. He didnt tell the doctor to go pursue Penny. My original point stands. It is a reach that Sheldon set out to encourage the doctor to come between the Lenny relationship.

[kerrycec03]

I agree Marina, but from my understanding, they aren't just upset about the lack of "kissing" but more that Lenny hasn't really tackled their big plans like living together and their pending marriage (both which I think will come up later in the season).  I also understand their frustrations because Season 6 & Season 7 Lenny had many A storylines together (which brought them eventually to their engagement) and now they really haven't....but as I have said neither character is being thrown to the back burner.  They both seem very career focused and acting more mature then any other cast member (focus really drove this point home).  So while they aren't all mushy mushy, they are growing as characters.

Edited November 24, 2014 by kerrycec03

[Chrismo]

Which is his opinion, that is, obviously, wrong.

Heck, Penny wasn't even sure if Howard is the right one for Bernadette until he told that speech about how she made him a better man.

Also, Sheldon didn't know that doctor would go after Penny. Also, if Penny really loves Leonard, which she does, she wouldn't have called for that, and she didn't.

But if Leonard is supposed to be Sheldon's best friend he never should have said that to the doctor. Since he knows how much Leonard loves Penny you would think he try to be a true friend. Comparing that to Penny being unsure about Howard there was many reasons for her to draw that conclusion.

So he offered his opinion that he thought the relationship wouldn't last. He didn't tell the doctor to go pursue Penny. My original point stands. It is a reach that Sheldon set out to encourage the doctor to come between the Lenny relationship.

By saying Lenny wouldn't last wasn't a discouragement either. Especially for someone as desperate as the doctor it was a form of encouragement.

[Tensor]

It isn't a Sheldon show (although it came close to it lately) and it definitely wasn't that for the past few seasons.

Again, the combination of inserting Sheldon into scenes, storytelling wise, he doesn't belong, with the focus this year has made it appear that it is the Sheldon show. I just trying to explain why it appears that way to those who are not of the Shamy persuasion. I couldn't care less if you accept it or not, as I'm pretty sure you won't.

 

That way you can also say that it is a Leonard and Penny show because wouldn't work without them as much as it wouldn't work without Sheldon.

I guess we can say that because Leonard and Penny are inserted unnecessarily into all those Shamy scenes, right?

 

Sure, Sheldon interrupted Leonard/Penny moment at the end of season six. But there was no Shamy moment at the end of seventh season. Instead, Sheldon had a moment with Leonard and Penny (not that they interrupted Shamy moment).

But the whole show was about Sheldon's world crumbling. There was no need to insert him into a scene, the whole show was his scenes.

 

I think that there is a simple explanation for Sheldon often interrupting Lenny moments: humor. Shamy dates are often as funny as they are because, well, you never see anyone else being on a date like that. Talking about science, word puns that are often made thanks to that, their disagreements regarding physical intimacy etc. Lenny dates are much less quicrker and unusual.

Bullshit. The Lenny date scene in "Recombination" was sweet and funny. No need for Sheldon. As a matter of fact, I'm trying to remember another strictly Leonard and Penny date that has been shown since.

 

So, when writers want to make a humor out of Lenny scenes, the best way to do that is to insert somebody completely opposite from them. Such as Sheldon.

So, what your saying is that the writers can't write a humorous scene without inserting Sheldon. How is that not make it the Sheldon Show?

 

Despite that, Lenny had lot of intimate uninterrupted moments during the last few seasons, such as in "The Hologramic Excitation", "The Closure Alternative",

Less than Sheldon and Amy. There was that large Bernadette and Penny scene.

 

"The Friendship Turbulence". The only time when their character development moment was interrupted by Sheldon was in season six finale, for reasons mentioned above. And we couldn't have Leonard and Penny work things out after her drunk proposal, got to put Sheldon in there.

And The Friendship Turbulence. The ending of that scene in the hall was spot on. Penny life was interrupting Sheldon's game, just like Leonard and Penny's discussion was interrupting Sheldon time on screen, have to fix that. I pointed out where there were other spots they were interrupted.

 

Yes, their engagement was preceeded by arguments and I agree that there is more to be desired there. But Shamy kiss in "The Locomotive Manipulation" was also preceeded by Sheldon and Amy arguing and with Amy being unhappy and was rarely even mentioned since, also we rarely got to see them kiss since then.

So, you have two serious moment not interrupted. So, to even this out, where are the interruptions to Shamy by Leonard? Oh, that's right, the writers can't write funny that way.

 

I agree that the whole Sheldon/Shamy thing may be overplayed lately and as I am Lenny shipper too the lack of Lenny scenes lately starts to annoy me.

Now, add into that all that, lets add Sheldon into scenes he doesn't need to be in and you should be able to see why some people feel it's become the Sheldon show.

 

But I don't think that the show became Sheldon show during the last few seasons and I don't see that continuing in the future, also I don't think that the shoe had been treating Shamy better then Lenny for the first few years (so to say).

You mean like when in Sheldon's phrase, she was a girl, who was a friend, but she wasn't a girlfriend? All the way through to they becoming boyfriend/girlfriend, during which, the entire time Lenny was apart. Look, I have stated that I have no problem with them concentrating on Shamy, they need it. I'm just pointing out why some may think it has turned into the Sheldon Show. This is a multi season thing that has been ongoing.

[nickelette424]

But if Leonard is supposed to be Sheldon's best friend he never should have said that to the doctor. Since he knows how much Leonard loves Penny you would think he try to be a true friend. Comparing that to Penny being unsure about Howard there was many reasons for her to draw that conclusion.

I can see why Sheldon would be skeptical of the Lenny relationship'status longevity. I don't agree with him, but I can see where the concerns would come from.

[Mislav]

But if Leonard is supposed to be Sheldon's best friend he never should have said that to the doctor. Since he knows how much Leonard loves Penny you would think he try to be a true friend. Comparing that to Penny being unsure about Howard there was many reasons for her to draw that conclusion.

By saying Lenny wouldn't last wasn't a discouragement either. Especially for someone as desperate as the doctor it was a form of encouragement.

That way we could also say that Sheldon could draw that conclusion for multiple reasons and that that makes it OK. We could also say that Penny shouldn't have think that way or question Bernadette about that because she was dating Leonard and Howard was his friend.

Sheldon was obviously unaware that would make doctor go after Penny. Also, even best friends have moments when they are rude to each other.

[tallin]

It would easier to respect your opinion and others if you focused on the entire show instead of your personal favorites.

With all of respect for you...that's  advice, you could find useful for yourself too.

And talk about kids with special needs in this context...it felt so insulting I don't even want to comment that...

[tmp]

Just a quick reminder:  this is a sit-com, the main purpose of which (besides making money) is to bring laughter and joy.

[Chrismo]

I can see why Sheldon would be skeptical of the Lenny relationship'status longevity. I don't agree with him, but I can see where the concerns would come from.

But if he's skeptical Sheldon should say something to Leonard not the doctor. Again a true friend wouldn't do what he did.

[nickelette424]

But if he's skeptical Sheldon should say something to Leonard not the doctor. Again a true friend wouldn't do what he did.

Sheldon had said something to Leonard before. The doctor asked him a question about why he teases Leonard about Penny. Sheldon, true to his nature, simply answered the question he was asked. It really is just that simple. There was no intent to send the doc Penny's way.

[Mislav]

Again, the combination of inserting Sheldon into scenes, storytelling wise, he doesn't belong, with the focus this year has made it appear that it is the Sheldon show. I just trying to explain why it appears that way to those who are not of the Shamy persuasion. I couldn't care less if you accept it or not, as I'm pretty sure you won't.

I guess we can say that because Leonard and Penny are inserted unnecessarily into all those Shamy scenes, right?

But the whole show was about Sheldon's world crumbling. There was no need to insert him into a scene, the whole show was his scenes.

Bullshit. The Lenny date scene in "Recombination" was sweet and funny. No need for Sheldon. As a matter of fact, I'm trying to remember another strictly Leonard and Penny date that has been shown since.

So, what your saying is that the writers can't write a humorous scene without inserting Sheldon. How is that not make it the Sheldon Show?

Less than Sheldon and Amy. There was that large Bernadette and Penny scene.

And The Friendship Turbulence. The ending of that scene in the hall was spot on. Penny life was interrupting Sheldon's game, just like Leonard and Penny's discussion was interrupting Sheldon time on screen, have to fix that. I pointed out where there were other spots they were interrupted.

So, you have two serious moment not interrupted. So, to even this out, where are the interruptions to Shamy by Leonard? Oh, that's right, the writers can't write funny that way.

Now, add into that all that, lets add Sheldon into scenes he doesn't need to be in and you should be able to see why some people feel it's become the Sheldon show.

You mean like when in Sheldon's phrase, she was a girl, who was a friend, but she wasn't a girlfriend? All the way through to they becoming boyfriend/girlfriend, during which, the entire time Lenny was apart. Look, I have stated that I have no problem with them concentrating on Shamy, they need it. I'm just pointing out why some may think it has turned into the Sheldon Show. This is a multi season thing that has been ongoing.

You missed one important point.

I said that the reason why season eight focuses more on Sheldon lately is because of a cliffhanger at the end of season seven. The same way with season six initially focusing on Howard being am astronaut, him adjusting back to normal life etc.

About your disregard of episodes that I mentioned, I thought that the Lenny scenes that I mentioned were just enough for them and well put. I wouldn't even call the Sheldon/Amy interaction in Closure alternative Shamy scenes. It was more of a character study of Sheldon with Amy being thrown in there. Shamy isn't the only couple to be developing while Leonard and Penny were apart. Howdette is example of that too.

Also,

I didn't say that writers can't write humorous scene at all without Sheldon. Only that Lenny scenes can turn really funny with Sheldon, which is why they insert him. There is the difference.

I respect your opinion, but I just don't see the show as Sheldon show and that being an ongoing thing going on for years (although it became close to that lately).

[Tonstar17]

He was talking about taking bets as to whether or not their relationship would last. But that was it am I correct? If I am missing a line in there where he says something like, "I don't think it's gonna last, you should go for it" then so be it, but I don't remember such a thing. I know he encouraged him earlier in the episode, but that was before he knew that he was after Penny.

The point I was making was when sheldon was talking to the doctor about penny. Sheldon made the bet comment encouraged the doctor to go after penny unintentionally or not, Sheldon realised what he had done & what the doctor was up to he didn't tell Leonard for his own selfish reasons. I am not a Sheldon hater, I just don't like the way he treats Leonard like shit sometimes & always putting down lenny relationship, then we get an episode of them being bestest friends. The episode SEPTUM DEVIATION imo should have been about penny taking care of Leonard, it has always been about Leonard taking care of penny. I just want to see an episode were that happens, the writers had a great opportunity for that to happen, but instead we got sheldon ranting about he is the only one that cares about Leonard.

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[kerrycec03]

Tonstar I do agree with you that I would enjoy seeing an episode of Penny taking care of Leonard, but not in a sick role, just more in general sense. In fact, in my head, I foresee this years V-Day episode being Lenny focused, with Penny doing the planning and such....

[Chrismo]

Sheldon had said something to Leonard before. The doctor asked him a question about why he teases Leonard about Penny. Sheldon, true to his nature, simply answered the question he was asked. It really is just that simple. There was no intent to send the doc Penny's way.

It's gets old when people make excuses for Sheldon. He's too old to be that clueless. If he was he would of never said ILY to Amy.

[Mislav]

It's gets old when people make excuses for Sheldon. He's too old to be that clueless. If he was he would of never said ILY to Amy.

First you try to diregard Shamy ILY few weeks ago and now you use it as an argument?

Anyway, Sheldon also never kissed anyone else but Amy. He progressed a lot with her. But he still has a lot to learn with other people.

[Chrismo]

First you try to diregard Shamy ILY few weeks ago and now you use it as an argument?

Anyway, Sheldon also never kissed anyone else but Amy. He progressed a lot with her. But he still has a lot to learn with other people.

My point is Sheldon knew enough to say ILY. If he meant it who knows IMO. It just seems they have him clueless when he should know better.

[nickelette424]

It's gets old when people make excuses for Sheldon. He's too old to be that clueless. If he was he would of never said ILY to Amy.

He had issues picking up on social cues at times. I know people like him. It's not an excuse, it's a reality. That aspect of Sheldon's character is realistic. And in this case Sheldon can only be responsible for his own thoughts and intentions. The doc is fully responsible for taking Sheldon's words as permission to go after Penny, when Sheldon said nothing if the sort.

This in no way has any bearing on whether or not he would recognize his own feelings enough to say ILY to Amy. I don't even know why that would be part of this conversation.

My point is Sheldon knew enough to say ILY. If he meant it who knows IMO. It just seems they have him clueless when he should know better.

So now you are questioning whether or not Sheldon actually loves Amy?

[tmp]

Changing the subject (please?), do you think Bernadette will soften the rest of the season?  They've had her realize she was mean and then in the next episode she was sweet.  Will it last?

[nickelette424]

Changing the subject (please?), do you think Bernadette will soften the rest of the season? They've had her realize she was mean and then in the next episode she was sweet. Will it last?

Is hard to tell. I think she really just found a different way to get her way, not that she really learned to much. I like her feisty. I don't like it to much when she is basically a bully. I think last season she had a nice balance.