S8 Discussion Thread

[Tonstar17]

And here we go again. No one is bashing shamy just comparing if shamy fans will be happy if the table is turned. Trust me convo is about sheldon and his insertion in Lenny moments. Get yours facts right.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[tmp]

       

[Tensor]

On both sides T, on both sides.

[3ku11]

Dont want to add to it. But had to laugh at one post saying Shamy fans dont bash Lenny. Just have to ref s7 finalie to proove that wrong. That does make either right, but neither is one sided its a two way street. I don't think Sheldon end of day gives a damn about Penny, but he still appreciates how hes given his best friend true love. I still think Sheldon out of fear cannot trust Amy completly yet. Its more natural with Leonard. But I dont think it means he cares about Leonard more, I dont think its even crossed his or the writers mind. Look this whole ship war, who likes who etc. Is just this little bubble where in. Were so inwardly focused. The show is not only catering to us, but they have an outward focus. Being in the buisness of comedy, to them Inserting Sheldon in Lenny scenes. Is funny. Now we have the right to disagree. But tptb look at the overall picture. Attending fans ship preferences or our sensibilities

Maybe not on their radar. If they are not consistent with a story that's their responsibility not fans jmo.

Edited December 10, 2014 by 3ku11

[phantagrae]

Holy cows.

 

Tensor, the problem with your examples is that the issue is not simply inserting SHeldon into Lenny moments.

 

The writers aren't inserting him in order to ruin anything, and again, in the case of the couch tag, he wasn't inserted into anything.  The Lenny scene was finished.  Then came the punchline.

 

But about the "why doesn't Sheldon invite Amy over" issue--it's not about whether Sheldon prefers or values one person over the other, but that he is used to Leonard being there, in the room just down the hall from his own.

We've already seen why he doesn't want to live with Amy (and at the time, Penny wasn't ready to have Leonard move in with her--was that somehow Sheldon's fault, too?), and there's nothing wrong with him not being ready.  And it's a separate issue from him not being ready to let Leonard go.

 

He doesn't have to live with or sleep with Amy at this point just to prove he loves her, or prefers her over Leonard.  Again, that's not the point of the tag scene, and it doesn't have to do with intruding on some romantic Lenny moment, so I don't think that this tag scene can be used as an example of that sort of thing.

 

Because the show always leavens all heavily emotional scenes with some kind of joke, someone will say something or something will happen that bursts the emotional bubble.  Lorre has even mentioned it in one of his vanity cards.

 

Whether or not they use Sheldon to make that joke depends on the situation and the episode and the joke.

 

With L/P, he's often used because like someone else said, it's the Big Three Triangle, like it or not.

 

But here we are again, with some (not all, but some) Lenny fans finding nothing but negativity in every detail, every episode, every line related to their own ship.  I thought it was a funny, even sweet episode.  While it is, again, a comedic exaggeration, that's what this show is about.  So, it's not a Hallmark Love Story movie of the week and it's not going to be full of one sweet Lenny moment followed by another as they ride happily off into the sunset.

 

Yes, I believe everyone is going to be happy in the end--that is, also, the kind of show this is, even though it values the comedic over the saccharine.  So Leonard and Penny will be, and are, I believe, happy together, just not on any fan timetable.

If you want to have some sweet Leonard-and-Penny-spend-30-minutes-cooing-in-her-apartment story, that's what fanfic is for, because that kind of episode is never going to happen--for any of the couples--on this show.

 

They'll get to their happy endings, in increments.

Edited December 10, 2014 by phantagrae

[Nogravitasatall]

I went back and re-read the report. It looks like they are flagging that separating Sheldon from Leonard is going to be a long process. That's perhaps the point. I think it will take around 60 more episodes to complete the process. Luckily for credibility's sake Leonard is allowed weekly conjugal visits. That's awesome <icon: strained credulity>. Unless Leonard has copped too much radiation in the lab this incident has to be a one-off (and by in the lab I mean in his pants). Did else anyone feel sad for Leonard and Penny from reading this? Is Sheldon clingy or what.

Though I'm sure it will be funny in isolation. It usually is, after performance lifts everything.

(And Phanta I know it's what they have to do without busting the show, but the guy may as well wriggle in between them in bed Lol.)

[hokie3457]

Nograv, you are hilarious!

Sent from my iPhone using

Tapatalk

[notchinc]

If I had to hire a lawyer, it wouldn't be She-Hulk.

[Tonstar17]

I went back and re-read the report. It looks like they are flagging that separating Sheldon from Leonard is going to be a long process. That's perhaps the point. I think it will take around 60 more episodes to complete the process. Luckily for credibility's sake Leonard is allowed weekly conjugal visits. That's awesome . Unless Leonard has copped too much radiation in the lab this incident has to be a one-off (and by in the lab I mean in his pants). Did else anyone feel sad for Leonard and Penny from reading this? Is Sheldon clingy or what.

Though I'm sure it will be funny in isolation. It usually is, after performance lifts everything.

(And Phanta I know it's what they have to do without busting the show, but the guy may as well wriggle in between them in bed Lol.)

Lol. Funny that. So the one night only Leonard gets to sleep over at penny's, he doesn't get his freak on cause someone's on the couch. Guess he brought his noise cancelling head phones. Oh, lenny are not allowed to do that cause sheldon said so & probably one of his many conditions.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[3ku11]

Lol. Funny that. So the one night only Leonard gets to sleep over at penny's, he doesn't get his freak on cause someone's on the couch. Guess he brought his noise cancelling head phones. Oh, lenny are not allowed to do that cause sheldon said so & probably one of his many conditions.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

Lol tonstar I think you may have to get your peace with it. Because inserting Sheldon in Lenny scenes has been going on for a while. And the main three well always be connected some way. Particularly for comedy sakes. Sheldons no different to other sitcoms. Always have that one character whos huge, takes up alot of room. Almost the anti-hero. I hope they dont make him become the show, I know in Happy Days it became all about Fonzie. Hope that doesent become the case in Big Bang. To me Lenny is what made me become a massive fan. But I think patience is key here.

[tmp]

On both sides T, on both sides.

 

My frustration isn't at one side or the other, just in general that these same fights are being rehashed again.  

[Tensor]

Phanta, can you explain to me why turning this around, and asking how the Shamy's would feel with Leonard interrupting some important Shamy scenes or Shamy breaking up is bashing. We keep getting told that something like that won't happen, or that's not the way Leonard is, and thats the problem. Most Shamy's either don't feel the depth of passion for Lenny, so they won't understand how the various slights makes Lenny's feel. The only way it can be explained, is to turn it around and ask how the Shamys would feel if things like that were happening, but somehow that ends up as bashing.

It also bothers me that you dismiss scenes with Penny and Leonard in them as not exciting. Why can't they write jokes as those two are getting into bed? Nope, got to have Sheldon in there. The scene, as shown, may have been over before Sheldon, but why is he there at all? The punchline? sorry it doesn't seem funny to me, but that may be different when it airs. Why not write jokes for Penny and Leonard. I don't demand sweet and saccharine for every (or indeed any episode), but the humor of the continuing insertion of Sheldon in their couples scenes, the denigration of Penny and/or Leonard and Lenny (the scene with the money, for instance, wasn't funny to me. Why do they need to keep referencing Penny past sex life? Why rub that in Leonard face again?), is rapidly being lost on me this year.

The last couple of year, when there was a hue and cry over some sort of Shamy disaster, I would try to encourage those who were upset with the situation. I couldn't see the problem, but that is simply because I wasn't as passionate about Shamy as I was Lenny. Here, I'm struggling with the way my couple is being portrayed, and when I try to explain, I'm told my concerns are bullsquirt or worse, that I'm somehow bashing Shamy. If your passion is Shamy, they only way I can get across the feelings about this is to try and get you to realize how those situations would make you feel, if they happened to Shamy. The way Amy's been treated by Sheldon, his running off without calling her, and various other things show that Shamy's can feel just as upset with the way things are going as some of us are now. Things are going well for Shamy right now. Enjoy it, cherish it, and I hope things don't happen to Shamy to cause any fans of theirs to doubt.

As for who is more important. When Leonard sleeps at Penny's one night a week (which is ridiculous in it's own way), Sheldon can choose to go to Penny's, stay in the apartment, go to Amy's(or as a reduced likely hood, Raj's or Howardette's). That he goes to Penny's indicates that being near Leonard is more important to him than staying in his own room, or going to Amy's (and before anyone gets the wrong idea, his room and Amy are more important to him than Raj or Howardette). Is Amy important, sure. Is she the most important thing in his life, nope. He is. He acts in his own self interest most of the time. Is he ready to cohabitant with her either in or out of the same bed, no and there is nothing wrong with this. I simply stated that while it is changing, his choice indicate, for me and at this time, that Leonard is more important than to him than Amy is.  That is and will change to where he will be more concerned with Amy than Leonard.

I'll leave you with a comment from a Shamy fan from last year, they saw it also back then, but it doesn't seem like anyone understands our feelings about it now:

"I feel like a lot of Shamy fans too hate Sheldon as the Lenny-dog and him being used as a plot device to drag Lenny down, I believe many hardcore Sheldon fans also hate the way he's been used for that.... I often don't understand why they sabotage their own momentum by dropping interesting storylines in favor of coming up with new ways of running the same damn jokes into the ground."

This is the way I'm starting to feel.  I still enjoy the show, I still enjoy Lenny, and I still cheer for Shamy and the rest.  But something has changed for me and the one thing that is bothering me is how they mess with Lenny all the time.  The same type of comments in regards to Leonard and Penny, the same type of insertion of Sheldon into places where he really has no purpose, isn't funny anymore.  You would think they could come up with something new for those situations.  

[Maddie]

Just for the record, tensor, I wasn't speaking about you when I said that some Lenny fans like to put down Shamy. I have never gotten that feeling from you. We can agree to disagree on the "who's more important" debate (I think it's pointless anyway as they are both extremely important to him, and like you said, changes are and will be made). But I just wanted to make it clear that I don't think you are a Shamy-basher. I've seen you be very supportive to us and happy for us when good things happen.

[ATM]

Anyway a discussion about a couple moving in together should have the couple talk about it..

 

Which seems to not be the case here as this is the Sheldon show lol.... his feelings seem to be the most important thing to the writers, others not much.

 

And Amy yelling at Leonard seems really odd, considering she constantly pushes Sheldon . One of the reason Sheldon left because she pushed him when he was already pushed.

 

And Leonard seems to have become pathetic , that he has to take permission for Sheldon to even stay with Penny  lol

 

His character has no plots no substance nothing, seems like a punching bag for everyone ,how pathetic lol

 

Overall the show has become quite predictable with the same motto Sheldon hates change wah wah wah  lol

Edited December 11, 2014 by ATM

[3ku11]

Phanta, can you explain to me why turning this around, and asking how the Shamy's would feel with Leonard interrupting some important Shamy scenes or Shamy breaking up is bashing. We keep getting told that something like that won't happen, or that's not the way Leonard is, and thats the problem. Most Shamy's either don't feel the depth of passion for Lenny, so they won't understand how the various slights makes Lenny's feel. The only way it can be explained, is to turn it around and ask how the Shamys would feel if things like that were happening, but somehow that ends up as bashing.

It also bothers me that you dismiss scenes with Penny and Leonard in them as not exciting. Why can't they write jokes as those two are getting into bed? Nope, got to have Sheldon in there. The scene, as shown, may have been over before Sheldon, but why is he there at all? The punchline? sorry it doesn't seem funny to me, but that may be different when it airs. Why not write jokes for Penny and Leonard. I don't demand sweet and saccharine for every (or indeed any episode), but the humor of the continuing insertion of Sheldon in their couples scenes, the denigration of Penny and/or Leonard and Lenny (the scene with the money, for instance, wasn't funny to me. Why do they need to keep referencing Penny past sex life? Why rub that in Leonard face again?), is rapidly being lost on me this year.

The last couple of year, when there was a hue and cry over some sort of Shamy disaster, I would try to encourage those who were upset with the situation. I couldn't see the problem, but that is simply because I wasn't as passionate about Shamy as I was Lenny. Here, I'm struggling with the way my couple is being portrayed, and when I try to explain, I'm told my concerns are bullsquirt or worse, that I'm somehow bashing Shamy. If your passion is Shamy, they only way I can get across the feelings about this is to try and get you to realize how those situations would make you feel, if they happened to Shamy. The way Amy's been treated by Sheldon, his running off without calling her, and various other things show that Shamy's can feel just as upset with the way things are going as some of us are now. Things are going well for Shamy right now. Enjoy it, cherish it, and I hope things don't happen to Shamy to cause any fans of theirs to doubt.

As for who is more important. When Leonard sleeps at Penny's one night a week (which is ridiculous in it's own way), Sheldon can choose to go to Penny's, stay in the apartment, go to Amy's(or as a reduced likely hood, Raj's or Howardette's). That he goes to Penny's indicates that being near Leonard is more important to him than staying in his own room, or going to Amy's (and before anyone gets the wrong idea, his room and Amy are more important to him than Raj or Howardette). Is Amy important, sure. Is she the most important thing in his life, nope. He is. He acts in his own self interest most of the time. Is he ready to cohabitant with her either in or out of the same bed, no and there is nothing wrong with this. I simply stated that while it is changing, his choice indicate, for me and at this time, that Leonard is more important than to him than Amy is.  That is and will change to where he will be more concerned with Amy than Leonard.

I'll leave you with a comment from a Shamy fan from last year, they saw it also back then, but it doesn't seem like anyone understands our feelings about it now:"I feel like a lot of Shamy fans too hate Sheldon as the Lenny-dog and him being used as a plot device to drag Lenny down, I believe many hardcore Sheldon fans also hate the way he's been used for that.... I often don't understand why they sabotage their own momentum by dropping interesting storylines in favor of coming up with new ways of running the same damn jokes into the ground."

This is the way I'm starting to feel.  I still enjoy the show, I still enjoy Lenny, and I still cheer for Shamy and the rest.  But something has changed for me and the one thing that is bothering me is how they mess with Lenny all the time.  The same type of comments in regards to Leonard and Penny, the same type of insertion of Sheldon into places where he really has no purpose, isn't funny anymore.  You would think they could come up with something new for those situations.

And Tensor I think you just summed up s8 perfectly. Everything you said is spot on.

[Chrismo]

Just for the record, tensor, I wasn't speaking about you when I said that some Lenny fans like to put down Shamy. I have never gotten that feeling from you. We can agree to disagree on the "who's more important" debate (I think it's pointless anyway as they are both extremely important to him, and like you said, changes are and will be made). But I just wanted to make it clear that I don't think you are a Shamy-basher. I've seen you be very supportive to us and happy for us when good things happen.

I'm guessing you referring to myself and Tonstar. we haven't bashed Shamy all day. In regards to who's the most important obviously tensor gave the right answer to that.

[Whiterose]

[Maddie]

I'm guessing you referring to myself and Tonstar. we haven't bashed Shamy all day. In regards to who's the most important obviously tensor gave the right answer to that.

 

In fact, you would be right. And I see you ridiculing Shamy quite often, and that's why I question your motives for doing so. I think it's really childish, and the least you could do is own it.

 

As for the second part, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm flummoxed how Tensor or anyone else could come to that conclusion based off a throw-away tag-scene joke. I've seen many a Lenny fan write off a poorly received Lenny jab as a "throw away line." But when it come to the Shamy relationship, him spending one night on Penny's couch over the far-reaching notion of him spending it with Amy when their relationship hasn't even reached that point yet, has all the importance in the world. It would be like me saying the guys are more important to Leonard because he decided to play Dungeons and Dragons over spending time with Penny. So let's just say we've reached an impasse and move on.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Maddie

[Chrismo]

In fact, you would be right. And I see you ridiculing Shamy quite often, and that's why I question your motives for doing so. I think it's really childish, and the least you could do is own it.

 

As for the second part, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm flummoxed how Tensor or anyone else could come to that conclusion based off a throw-away tag-scene joke. I've seen many a Lenny fan write off a poorly received Lenny jab as a "throw away line." But when it come to the Shamy relationship, him spending one night on Penny's couch over the far-reaching notion of him spending it with Amy when their relationship hasn't even reached that point yet, has all the importance in the world. It would be like me saying the guys are more important to Leonard because he decided to play Dungeons and Dragons over spending time with Penny. So let's just say we've reached an impasse and move on.

I typically ridicule Sheldon. I think some on here think the season 8 thread is a Shamy thread. I think tensors conclusions aren't only based on last nights taping. Comparing Sheldon on the couch to Leonard playing D and D is a good one. Leonard no doubt made up to Penny for lost time playing D and D with the guys. I can see Sheldon explaining to Amy that since Leonard is staying one night a week with Penny I decided to sleep on Penny's couch when he stays there. I'm sure Amy would be understanding.

[3ku11]

Oh who cares about Lenny or Shamy at the end of the day. The biggest ship at the end of the day well always be The Big Bang Theory .

[djsurrey]

I get the imprssion some would like TBBT to be something it is not. It's always been a little crazy. That is part of the appeal.

 

Before anything else it was always Leonard and Sheldon. That is the one and only thing retained from the first pilot that never aired.

[rachelshamyfan]

Soooooo tonight the Xmas episode is airing, that will be fun!

[kazzie]

I love Raj.

[djsurrey]

 Tomorrow in my time zone.

[Nogravitasatall]

The way I view the situation is that some Lennies are frustrated from the lack of Lenny love on the show, and they get frustrated that Sheldon is being inserted into Lenny scenes. That's understandable, whatever. I get it. But why feel the need to ridicule Shamy to make you feel better about Lenny? That's just childish.

it would be interesting to discover her reaction to Sheldon's sleep over. Which is why I think we will hear no more about this one night stand nonsense going forward, because how does he explain that to her? And if Leonard actually has any balls he'd put a quick stop to it too. It's degrading. This has to be a one off event, just for the laughs.