S8 Discussion Thread

[Strawberry PopTart Fan]

It's a bit like pigeon ping pong.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Strawberry PopTart Fan

[Tensor]

if anyone has a problem with a post, report it, don't answer in kind. Up until the last few posts, the discussion in most posts had something to do with season eight(regarding Sheldon and Lenny and examples.). Two posts have been hidden.

[ATM]

I never read posts that bash Lenny (written by Shamy shippers, that is-Shenny shippers, on the other hand...). As far as I heard most of the negative comments about them were made (by Shamy shippers) post season seven finale. I wasn't active on season seven thread or on that episode thread because the season was over, I rarely visit threads in regar to one particular episode, I mostly just stick with season threads. And I joined the forum in June 2014. So no, I didn't call out Shamys for bashing Lenny. However, I did call out ATM several times several times when he wrote posts about how awful both Lenny and Shamy relationships are. I did reply to post made by HulkSmash in "What character or thing annoys you" thread, which was basically a Leonard bashing post, and explained why I didn't agree with his points. I made a very passionate post about why I didn't like Penny's attitude toward Leonard in Raider's Minimisation, showung nothing but compassion for his character, and did so by replying to the post written by a Shamy shipper, who thought that Penny's actions were completely justified. And I never bashed Leonard or Lenny. But since you once wrote that Lenny shippers have life while Shamy shippers don't, I can see why you would categorize me as Shamy and ignore my points.

 

 

Oh oh oh my name comes up.

 

You called me out yet you could not give proper answers to my arguments . I'll post what happened in the past again

 

You said

That way we could also say that, since we already know that Leonard and Penny are engaged and happy, we don't need am episode the explore it further, making your complaints invalid.

I would like to see an episode that focuses on Leonard and Penny more but I am not angry about lack of that neither am I bashing Sheldon, for the reasons that I already listed few pages ago (first half of the new season tends to focus more on a character that went on a trip in a previous season finale but other characters catch up).

Also, why didn't you explain that right away rather than comparing Sheldon to special needs child?

 

 

To which I said

 

Really did u see the 7th season??  lol

 

It was all about Sheldons feelings.

Leonard trip going episode was about Sheldon being jealous,worried etc etc

Leonard on the trip was about how sad and alone Sheldon ( If I remember correctly Leonard was barely in this episode)

Leonard coming back was about how Sheldon felt betrayed.

 

And season 8

Sheldon going on a trip episode. All about Sheldon and his feelings.

Sheldon comes back from trip. All about Sheldon and how he felt. No mentions of how Leonard and Penny spent the entire time.

 

And the latest episode where Leonard gets surgery was all about Sheldon. Not about Sheldon and Leonard.Leonard was merely a supporting character

 

Clearly a Sheldon show

And the ones who say the opposite have no chance to win this thing.

 

By the way ,I am not  a shipper of any ship

I am not a big fan of the push-pull , bully-wimp relationships the show offers (Sheldon-Amy,Penny-Leonard)

 

To which you answered

 

 

It focused on Sheldon too but but not entirely on him and his jealousy was only mentioned occasionally and as a joke.

How exactly are those relationship "push-pull" and "bully-wimp"?

 

 

Thats it?? Did you not see the season 7 and season 8 initial parts . Could you not understand who the story was about?? For me it was fairly obvious that it was all about Sheldon

 

And push pull bully wimp relationship on the show . Amy and Leonard cannot get things they want in their relationships until unless Sheldon and Penny are ready. Vice versa not true. As simple as that. I can give you tons of examples from the show

 

Yeah called me out lol.

[Mislav]

Oh oh oh my name comes up.

You called me out yet you could not give proper answers to my arguments . I'll post what happened in the past again

You said

To which I said

To which you answered

Thats it?? Did you not see the season 7 and season 8 initial parts . Could you not understand who the story was about?? For me it was fairly obvious that it was all about Sheldon

And push pull bully wimp relationship on the show . Amy and Leonard cannot get things they want in their relationships until unless Sheldon and Penny are ready. Vice versa not true. As simple as that. I can give you tons of examples from the show

Yeah called me out lol.

I was talking about the first post that you made on this thread that was negative regarding Lenny and Shamy, this was a second one that you posted

[ATM]

I was talking about the first post that you made on this thread that was negative regarding Lenny and Shamy, this was a second one that you posted

 

Atleast answer any one of those properly, if you think you called me out.

[phantagrae]

More of my annoyance with Sheldon is with people who make excuses for him. He has never been diagnosed with anything. People have suggested through the years many things (Asperger's for example) but there is no proof.

 

Whether or not he's been "diagnosed", he obviously has issues--he has OCD tendencies, he has routines and rules, etc., and for whatever reasons, his friends follow them.  That's part of the premise.  If Leonard really hated it, he could have refused to sign the RA in the first place and found a different apartment.

But he did agree to all of Sheldon's rules and in the end actually befriended Sheldon and cares about him.

 

So, if the people around Sheldon care about him and accomodate him--the way they all willingly accomodated Raj when he couldn't talk to women, accomodated Leonard's lactose intolerance and asthma, etc., and Howard's life with his mother--then how is it making excuses when Sheldon is simply behaving as his character was designed.

 

The comedy and premise have to do with who these characters are and the foibles and weaknesses that are the flip side of their genius, whether it's social awkwardness, hard nerdism, or various phobias, etc..

So, yeah, sometimes Sheldon reacts a certain way because of whatever it is that plagues him--his fear of birds, his fear of change, his strict rules.  That's not making excuses for him, it's understanding the character and how he behaves.

Each character has his or her own parameters that dictate how they do or do not respond to certain things--like Penny saying that girls don't play D&D.  She's wrong, but she doesn't know it.  She's speaking from the perspective of an outsider to nerd culture, because, of course, plenty of girls do play D&D.  So, is Penny stupid, rude, snobbish, or what?  None of those things, IMO.  She can be baffled by or scoff at certain things, like playing D&D, reading comic books, watching an extra 8 seconds of a movie you've seen a thousand times, but it's within the parameters of her character to react that way.

 

So, if Sheldon behaves a certain way, it's mostly because of who and how he is.  You may not like something he does, but that doesn't mean that he's OOC or that people are "making excuses" or that he shouldn't behave a certain way just because he doesn't have a specific diagnosis.  The writers aren't going to label him and then be restricted by that label, or be accused of making fun of people with that diagnosis if they have the other characters joke about his condition.

 

What if they had a Down's Syndrom character and part of the humor of the show was others making fun of that character's limitations or aspects that stemmed from that condition?  They would be CRUCIFIED.  The same goes for saying he has Asperger's.

Not only do they not want to make a joke out of such a condition, but they also don't want to be limited by such a label.

 

So, it doesn't depend on a diagnosis, but upon what they've established for his character in how he reacts, behaves, etc.  Diagnosis doesn't matter, characterization does.

[denajeanx]

Ugh. Thank you, Phanta.

 

It is beyond annoying when people discount mental illness'. Don't talk about things you haven't got a clue about. I don't care if it is a fictional character or not.

 

The writers can't exactly put a label on him due to the backlash, but that doesn't mean a mental illness doesn't exist.

Edited December 11, 2014 by denajeanx

[phantagrae]

Ugh. Thank you, Phanta.

 

It is beyond annoying when people discount mental illness'. Don't talk about things you haven't got a clue about. I don't care if it is a fictional character or not.

 

The writers can't exactly put a label on him due to the backlash, but that doesn't mean a mental illness doesn't exist.

 

One of the things I love about the guys is how they've always worked around each other's weaknesses and kind of protect each other.  Even if they poke fun at each other, they still seem to have a mutual understanding of each other's vulnerabilities.

 

Before Raj finally got over his mutism, Howard willingly (for the most part), acted as Raj's interpreter or go-between.  Though he sometimes made jokes about Raj whispering in his ear, for the most part, he did spoke for him as the most routine thing in the world.  They live by the Sheldonian calendar when it comes to nightly activities and food rotation.  If they wanted to, they could have just left him alone in the apartment while they went out and did other things, but instead they include him and spend time with him.

 

It's like they've bound themselves together to protect each other from the cruelty of outsiders or whatever.  They were all bullied as kids and they have mutual wounds and they understand each other.

[Chrismo]

Whether or not he's been "diagnosed", he obviously has issues--he has OCD tendencies, he has routines and rules, etc., and for whatever reasons, his friends follow them.  That's part of the premise.  If Leonard really hated it, he could have refused to sign the RA in the first place and found a different apartment.

But he did agree to all of Sheldon's rules and in the end actually befriended Sheldon and cares about him.

 

 

So, it doesn't depend on a diagnosis, but upon what they've established for his character in how he reacts, behaves, etc.  Diagnosis doesn't matter, characterization does.

The roommate agreement at this point means nothing. Leonard could get up and leave at anytime. There is no denying Leonard and Amy are enablers in regards to Sheldon. You mentioned Howard and his mother Raj and his mutism. Leonard's being lactose intolerant not a major storyline.  Obviously issues that are now history on the show. Penny last season being married to Zack obviously made her look stupid. Some of Penny's "stupidity"  comments IMO  are starting to get old. Then there's Sheldon. His behavior is at best is inconsistent. he had the sense to know Amy was trying to say ILY and said it to her first. But inappropriate  at best to be sleeping on Penny's couch with Lenny in the bedroom, especially since Sheldon complained in the past of the couch being too short. Common sense wasn't present during that. Again Lenny enabled him to do that I know some Lenny fans wished they hadn't. In regards to his "mental illness" some have used that as a excuse for his behavior. I have no problem saying he has issues just like the rest of the characters. My point it's a blanket excuse for most of the things he does wrong while the other characters don't get excuses when they do something wrong.

[Mislav]

The roommate agreement at this point means nothing. Leonard could get up and leave at anytime. There is no denying Leonard and Amy are enablers in regards to Sheldon. You mentioned Howard and his mother Raj and his mutism. Leonard's being lactose intolerant not a major storyline. Obviously issues that are now history on the show. Penny last season being married to Zack obviously made her look stupid. Some of Penny's "stupidity" comments IMO are starting to get old. Then there's Sheldon. His behavior is at best is inconsistent. he had the sense to know Amy was trying to say ILY and said it to her first. But inappropriate at best to be sleeping on Penny's couch with Lenny in the bedroom, especially since Sheldon complained in the past of the couch being too short. Common sense wasn't present during that. Again Lenny enabled him to do that I know some Lenny fans wished they hadn't. In regards to his "mental illness" some have used that as a excuse for his behavior. I have no problem saying he has issues just like the rest of the characters. My point it's a blanket excuse for most of the things he does wrong while the other characters don't get excuses when they do something wrong.

Other characters don't have OCD. It does not justify all of Sheldon's actions but it can cast a new light on many of them. Also, OCD is not something that you just get over it. Are you comparing OCD to lactose intolerance, seriously?

Other characters can have excuses for their actions but I think that their problems can rarely be that excuse (except maybe Raj being a jerk when he is drunk).

Also, if Roommate Agreement really means nothing, legally, why didn't Priya, an expert lawyer, point that out in season four? She, Leonard and the guys would have a complete freedom. Instead she only disregarded the parts of it that had loopholes and used that to have her way or annoy Sheldon.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Mislav

[denajeanx]

The roommate agreement at this point means nothing. Leonard could get up and leave at anytime. There is no denying Leonard and Amy are enablers in regards to Sheldon. You mentioned Howard and his mother Raj and his mutism. Leonard's being lactose intolerant not a major storyline.  Obviously issues that are now history on the show. Penny last season being married to Zack obviously made her look stupid. Some of Penny's "stupidity"  comments IMO  are starting to get old. Then there's Sheldon. His behavior is at best is inconsistent. he had the sense to know Amy was trying to say ILY and said it to her first. But inappropriate  at best to be sleeping on Penny's couch with Lenny in the bedroom, especially since Sheldon complained in the past of the couch being too short. Common sense wasn't present during that. Again Lenny enabled him to do that I know some Lenny fans wished they hadn't. In regards to his "mental illness" some have used that as a excuse for his behavior. I have no problem saying he has issues just like the rest of the characters. My point it's a blanket excuse for most of the things he does wrong while the other characters don't get excuses when they do something wrong.

 

I am sorry Mislav, I am going to mirror you here. Are you kidding me? Seriously?

 

The only explanation that I can come up with for that comparison is pure ignorance. That is not only a disgusting comment, but highly offensive to people who struggle with mental illness. You have a lot of nerve or you're just that dense, I am not sure which is more plausible at this point.

[Andy_90's_generation]

[Kasey]

 In regards to his "mental illness" some have used that as a excuse for his behavior. I have no problem saying he has issues just like the rest of the characters. My point it's a blanket excuse for most of the things he does wrong while the other characters don't get excuses when they do something wrong.

 

I agree with this part of your post mainly because (and I really hate to start a conversation about mental illness but..) not everything that Sheldon does IMHO is because he has OCD or Asperger's or whatever mental illness anyone wants to label him with whether it is stated on the show or not.  

 

Some things are just part of one's personality and while the others let Sheldon get away with a lot, it really doesn't do him any great service.  I think that is why he admires Amy so much because she calls him on it.

 

And just for the record, I don't believe Asperger's is considered a mental illness so we might be labeling incorrectly here... 

Edited December 11, 2014 by Kasey

[denajeanx]

 

And just for the record, I don't believe Asperger's is considered a mental illness so we might be labeling incorrectly here... 

 

The DSM V considers Asperger's to be a mental disorder. That aside, no one said he had that. He may be on the spectrum of something similar, but that's not definitive obviously.

 

I also never said that it justifies all of his behavior, but a lot of things such as routine and hygiene are absolutely due to whatever he's got going on.

Edited December 11, 2014 by denajeanx

[Chrismo]

Other characters don't have OCD. It does not justify all of Sheldon's actions but it can cast a new light on many of them. Also, OCD is not something that you just get over it. Are you comparing OCD to lactose intolerance, seriously?

Other characters can have excuses for their actions but I think that their problems can rarely be that excuse (except maybe Raj being a jerk when he is drunk).

Also, if Roommate Agreement really means nothing, legally, why didn't Priya, an expert lawyer, point that out in season four? She, Leonard and the guys would have a complete freedom. Instead she only disregarded the parts of it that had loopholes and used that to have her way or annoy Sheldon.

And that's my point. It doesn't justify ALL his actions. My point is sometimes they pull out his OCD like they pull out Leonard's lactose intolerance. When they feel the need. Just like the RA. Like many things on the show the RA has sort of run it's course. The Priya/Sheldon plotline was to signal the beginning of the end for Priya coinciding with her being a lawyer. Most hated Priya at that time and enjoyed what happened to her in that episode. The RA was just a prop.

[Kasey]

The DSM V considers Asperger's to be a mental disorder. That aside, no one said he had that. He may be on the spectrum of something similar, but that's not definitive obviously.

 

I also never said that it justifies all of his behavior, but a lot of things such as routine and hygiene are absolutely due to whatever he's got going on.

 

I thought that people who have Asperger's and/or Autism do not like the distinction of it being called a mental illness/disorder no matter how it is classified by the DSM-5.

 

And I never said he had it or that you said he had it or that you said anything specific.  I was just agreeing with Chrismo because as a person with mental disorders/illnesses I know that not everything is related to a specific illness.  

 

That was my basic thought behind my post.  Also I was not offended by what Chrismo wrote...

[Mislav]

And that's my point. It doesn't justify ALL his actions. My point is sometimes they pull out his OCD like they pull out Leonard's lactose intolerance. When they feel the need. Just like the RA. Like many things on the show the RA has sort of run it's course. The Priya/Sheldon plotline was to signal the beginning of the end for Priya coinciding with her being a lawyer. Most hated Priya at that time and enjoyed what happened to her in that episode. The RA was just a prop.

They sometimes pull his OCD but it doesn't make it less real. It is a sitcom, so they can't bring it up all the time. But it is still a part of his character. So you can't really disregard that. It is not something you can get over it either. It can become less severe but most of people live with mental ilnesses their whole lives. Sad but true.

In my opinion legally Rommate Agreement means something. It may ran it's course on the show in the sense that there is no need to bring it up, no many plots to be centered around it, but you can't say that legally it doesn't mean anything. Whatever the reason for that Priya plot was it is canon.

[denajeanx]

I thought that people who have Asperger's and/or Autism do not like the distinction of it being called a mental illness/disorder no matter how it is classified by the DSM-5.

 

And I never said he had it or that you said he had it or that you said anything specific.  I was just agreeing with Chrismo because as a person with mental disorders/illnesses I know that not everything is related to a specific illness.  

 

That was my basic thought behind my post.  Also I was not offended by what Chrismo wrote...

 

People that have anxiety don't like being told they have a mental illness. What's your point? It doesn't change the clinical diagnoses.

 

Of course you're not offended by Chrismo

[phantagrae]

The DSM V considers Asperger's to be a mental disorder. That aside, no one said he had that. He may be on the spectrum of something similar, but that's not definitive obviously.

 

I also never said that it justifies all of his behavior, but a lot of things such as routine and hygiene are absolutely due to whatever he's got going on.

 

I agree.

 

And that's another reason why he doesn't just "sleep with Amy and get it over with" or whatever some people want him to do.  He doesn't want to sleep with Amy not because he doesn't love her or value her, but because he has a steep hill to climb to be able to, again, because of his issues--germs, touching, modesty or whatever.

 

And as was said above, his issues are not something he can just get over, or cure with a pill or whatever.  Many people can never get over their OCD issues entirely.

Sheldon functions pretty well with his issues--he's not immobilized by them, but a lot of that is because he has friends who accomodate him.

 

It may seem like a minor thing, but I loved the way Penny understood Sheldon's need for this "knocking thingy" and offered to close her door to let him do it.  She knows he has a need to do that and she was willing to help him out.

 

Anyway, for whatever reasons, he has OCD issues, he has various phobias, he overthinks things, he's hypochondriacal, and that dictates a lot of his behaviors or inabilities.  That's how his character was built.  That he has learned to pick up on certain things is a measure of his growth, but because he can understand that Amy's about to say "I love you" doesn't mean that he understands everyone or everything in every situation.

[Cecilia]

Actually there is no evidence that Leonard and Penny are spending nights together since Sheldon came back from his trip or before he left. However there is evidence they have been sleeping alone, since their engagement. In the last episode of season 7, after Leonard mentions them living together, Sheldon offers to let Penny spend one night a week there a week, inferring she hasn't been sleeping there. It this taping report, Sheldon says they can have one night a week at her place, inferring they haven't been sleeping their either, because them sleeping together upsets him and he is a flight risk. Finally we see a night scene this season where Sheldon wakes Leonard up and Leonard is alone, (not like season 3, when those scenes always included Penny). All that evidence points to them sleeping alone, there is nothing supporting them sleeping together. Even the bed and money scene had them in street clothes going to have sex, not sleepwear getting ready for bed, so it inferred casual non- bedtime sex. So no, I don't think it is correct to assume Leonard spends any 'nights' in Penny's apartment, days and evenings, yes, nights, no.

I am not a Lenny expert so I will take your word for that. Still I think that Leonard and Penny do spend nights together cause that's how their relationship works. I don't think they stopped that I just think it wasn't on screen. I just don't see Penny or Leonard to willing to give up that kind pf intimacy of waking up with your SO. I remember that before Sheldon left Penny spent at least one night in 4A (when she haf the discussion about Sheldon's work with him I think). Also I think that they did spend the 45 days Sheldon was away together so I just don't think it's rational to stop it. Maybe he spends less nights there but I wouldn't buy it that easily that they don't spend any nights together. Also if they did it's only like a couple of months opposed to many nights all the years they are together so I figure Sheldon doesn't have a problem with Leonard spending time over at Penny's as long as he is his roomate. I just think that the problem is that Sheldon cannot get used to the idea and when he does and decide that it's for the best he will ok.

[Kasey]

People that have anxiety don't like being told they have a mental illness. What's your point? It doesn't change the clinical diagnoses.

 

Of course you're not offended by Chrismo

 

I don't understand why you have an attitude with me.  I didn't even refer to you at all in any of my posts.  

 

I suffer from anxiety and it's a mental illness and I don't mind referring to it as such.  I have friends who have children who have autism and they do not like to be referred to as having a mental illness.  That was my point.  The stigma associated with calling anything a mental illness is huge.

 

I and do not understand why I would "of course" not be offended by Chrismo.  

[Chrismo]

I am not a Lenny expert so I will take your word for that. Still I think that Leonard and Penny do spend nights together cause that's how their relationship works. I don't think they stopped that I just think it wasn't on screen. I just don't see Penny or Leonard to willing to give up that kind pf intimacy of waking up with your SO. I remember that before Sheldon left Penny spent at least one night in 4A (when she haf the discussion about Sheldon's work with him I think). Also I think that they did spend the 45 days Sheldon was away together so I just don't think it's rational to stop it. Maybe he spends less nights there but I wouldn't buy it that easily that they don't spend any nights together. Also if they did it's only like a couple of months opposed to many nights all the years they are together so I figure Sheldon doesn't have a problem with Leonard spending time over at Penny's as long as he is his roomate. I just think that the problem is that Sheldon cannot get used to the idea and when he does and decide that it's for the best he will ok.

SRAM reasoning makes sense for what was said on the show. Logically you are correct. Writing on this show hasn't always been consistent.

[Tensor]

OK,Tripper and I discused this last night and this morning. As it had died down, by the time we exchanged posts and emails, and most of the posts had at least a tangential tie to season 8. We let it go. With it flaring up again, here's some guidance. If the post has a specific point for season 8, we'll keep it here. If it's a complaint about other characters or complaints about how others perceive other characters, or complaints about how the thread is going, or takes things outside season 8 for any characters, we'll move it to the shipping lanes. And one other thing, keep it to a discussion about the opinions and ideas, don't make it about the other poster. If somerhing bothers you, report it.

[rachelshamyfan]

Could be something to do with next taping, Sheldon hanging with the ladies

[Andy_90's_generation]

Could be something to do with next taping, Sheldon hanging with the ladies

 

 hope the girls wear the pink t-shirts!