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S8 Discussion Thread


bigbangsheldon
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First of all, with the blooper reel and extras--the Tea Time feature is just about how the girls saw 3 of the little girls who were in the scene and kind of goofed around pretending they were "mini-me" versions of themselves.  They then had them do a little mini-interview as if they were Melissa, Kayley and Mayim.

On the gag reel, there is nothing about either of the kisses, but it is a lot of fun.  My favorite part is right at the end where Sheldon says, "I don't have to go to the bathroom anymore..." :p

 

As for scripts, the cast typically gets their new scripts on Tuesday night so they can read them before they get to the table read on Wednesday morning.  I think they're usually given the new script at the end of the taping on Tuesday, but for this first one, I was wondering if they get messengered over to their homes or what.

 

As for vasu, you all do realize that he just doesn't really understand what's going on with the show, right? :p

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All I wanted was to know how you defined character arcs or character plots, because you said Leonard didn't have any of them. How is asking for how you define the basis for your statement a word game?

I gave a reply which was'nt enough for you... I can't do much more than that...

 

Well three of those are from one episode, so that's four episodes out of 24. That's far from the half the season as you claimed.

 

Well you said she whines for half the season, it didn't seem obvious to me. That's why I asked for when she was whining about her career. The fact that it turn out to be only four episodes shows why it wasn't obvious to me.

I don't understand ... whats quite hard... her character's acting arc lasted around half a season... and whenever those scenes came... she had something to complain about....

I can't count the number of episodes as I don't remember all the details exactly...

her arc lasted around half a season...so I said half season... as simple as that....

This is why it is cumbersome to answer your questions.... too much attention to mundane obvious details...like the above one...

Edited by vasu

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I gave a reply which was'nt enough for you... I can't do much more than that...

Really? In what post did you define your terms? If you provided those definitions, my apologies.

 

I can't count the number of episodes as I don't remember all the details exactly...

If you don't remember the details, then how do you know it lasted half the season?

 

her arc lasted around half a season...so I said half season... as simple as that....

But now we find it was only four episodes. One sixth (not one half) of the season.

 

This is why it is cumbersome to answer your questions.... too much attention to mundane obvious details...like the above one...

Having to provide those details usually destroys generalities or blanket statements and it also provides clarity to statements. That's usually why people don't want to provide those details, but they're important for accuracy.

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Do we really need pages of repeated text? Not everyone wants to read the argument!!

As for s8 Lenny could move in together at the end of the season and that gives Sheldon time to adjust to living on his own

Edited by rachelshamyfan
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I think L/P may move in together at the beginning of S8. But in reality I don't see anything really changing, seeing the writers at CC said the wedding well be in the future. So back and fourth between 4A and 4B. But so L/P have privacy they well be mostly at 4B, so guess Sheldon has time to adjust being alone, which not sure why he needs too. I mean L/P live most of their time at Penny's so their must be some nights Sheldon has the apartment to him self, he's a big boy I am sure he has coping mechanisms to deal with it.

Edited by 3ku11

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Looks like Leonard is again going to be a support character this season .. no story arc..no plot for the character....just only support stuff...

So after an awful lot of back and forth circular arguments that seems to have turned into a battle of wills over Penny's story arc, I go back to what your original statement was, vasu - Leonard as only a support character. Other than bringing up the lack of follow up to his North Sea trip, which I actually agree with, you haven't offered up much else in way of replying to requests to explain your reasoning for Leonard being a support character only over the last two years, as you seem to be disregarding his relationship with Penny as being part of a major story arc. I see you refer to Sheldon and Penny's careers getting greater weight than Leonard's. Again agree but the difference of opinion there seems to be whether Leonard being part of Penny's story as supporting role or equally significant to the story.

I'm interested in the opinions of others as to whether Leonard's has ever been anything more than supporting role to the main story from day one rather than a recent event. I binged watched the whole 6 seasons over summer as my introduction to this show and have watched repeats of most eps ever since and my take from the start is that Sheldon's achievements have always taken precedence over Leonard's. Most references to his career have been put downs by the other guys. There have been the occasional episode where his career took centre stage ( the presentation that Sheldon boycotted then gate crashed, working with Dave Underhill which just became a plot device for Penny jealousy, getting to go to Switzerland and the LHC and being the main pitcher of grant requests to the old donor who just wanted sex ) but if I think about it, saying Season 8 will be a repeat of the last two seasons for Leonard is a bit strange because I would have thought there have been more or at least as much career episodes for Leonard in the last two seasons than the previous 5. Season 6-7 saw him showing his work to Penny, the two episode North Sea story ( which admittedly ended abruptly), the topic of tenure and working with Proton.

For me though, even thought there was a school of thought that originally Johnny Galecki was supposed to be the star of the show and Jim as support until Jim/Sheldon became more popular, I have always seen Johnny/Leonard as the supporting straight man in the show. It's a bit like Abbott as the straight man to Costello, Bing Crosby as support to Bob Hope, Desi Arnez as support for Lucy. For me, the main story for Leonard has always been his quest for Penny and Sheldon being the main plot for the science. Sheldon's successes, failures and struggles on his field have always been more central to the show than Leonard. Take Penny out of the equation and Leonard's main story arcs have still been his quest for romantic happiness. Leslie Winkle, Dr Stephanie, Slutbunny Plimpton and Priya along with minor events with Alex, Alice and the old donor whose name escapes me, seem to dominate the non Penny plots involving Leonard, all relationship based. Most other episodes with big Leonard involvement seem to be group geek interaction episodes with him being in all of the scenes but not the focus.

So vasu, for me, maybe not for you and maybe not for others in the debate, if you are going to disregard his relationship with Penny as a major story arc, as it's been since season 1, then Leonard will continue to be a support character. I just don't think he is because I see the Lenny relationship as his story arc. I would like to see more emphasis on his career but I think that has been missing for the whole series, not just the last 2 seasons, so for me, that is irrelevant. I'm happy for others to bring up MANY more examples of Leonard's career being the central plot of an episode over the seven seasons, not just a couple more ( in 160+ episodes, you need a lot to show he has been equal to Sheldon's career focus) but for the final time I'll say his career plays second fiddle to his relationship with Penny in the show, so vasu's original statement is invalid as a result. I'm sure you'll disagree, vasu, but that's my take.

Edit: apologies rachel if you don't want to read the argument going on but I needed one more say in the discussion.

Edited by Itwasdestined
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Bill Prady's original model was the effect on a Hot Blonde from across the hall on Four Eggheads. Leonard was always shown the most eager for romance, Howard and Raj Second and Third, and Sheldon DNP haha. So it has been apparent since day one, Leonard's career has been less of a focus, Sheldon's has been the focus. All of Leonard'Johnny's Main Story Archs have involved some form of romance. S1 Leslie/Joyce Kim S2. Penny/Stephanie S3 Penny S4 Priya/Slutbunny/Old Donor, S5 Priya/Comic Book Girl/Penny S6 Penny S7 Penny S8 Penny (most likely). Their are examples of Leonard's career been the main focus, but most of the time it has always been diminished by Sheldon for the lack of original results, Beverly has also castrated him for this too. Penny is the only who has shown interest in his work. S1 Leonard had a speech which was highjacked by Sheldon. S3 Leonard's career was partially focused, but as a plot device for another Sheldon and Penny interaction when Penny wanted to learn more about Leonard's work. S4 like some said the grant request from the old doner. Most of the time you see Leonard in his lab burning action dolls haha. So I do agree to a certain extent, most of S8 career wise won't be any different from the rest of the series. In S6 Tenure was brought up, if Tenure is brought back up and Leonard get's it is that not a major Story Arch? Therefore Leonard is not a supporting player. 

Edited by 3ku11

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vasu may be concerned that Leonard's plots of late have largely been Leonard-and-Penny plots, but if that is the case, that is true of almost all the original characters. Leonard and Penny are in a relationship, and many of their plots have been about their relationship. Likewise for Howard and Bernardette, Howard and Raj, Leonard and Sheldon and Sheldon and Amy. Dramas and comedies need the interaction of two or more characters to drive stories and tension.  That said, I'd love for the show to explore unusual character pairings as in the Scavenger Hunt episode. 

 

vasu may also be making a larger point that the last season has tended to focus on Sheldon and Penny's crises, with Leonard as the stable happy one getting short shrift. To which I say: show's not over yet by a long chalk. Let's see what's coming. 

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[snip]

I'm interested in the opinions of others as to whether Leonard's has ever been anything more than supporting role to the main story from day one rather than a recent event. I binged watched the whole 6 seasons over summer as my introduction to this show and have watched repeats of most eps ever since and my take from the start is that Sheldon's achievements have always taken precedence over Leonard's. Most references to his career have been put downs by the other guys.[snip]

For me though, even thought there was a school of thought that originally Johnny Galecki was supposed to be the star of the show and Jim as support until Jim/Sheldon became more popular,[snip]

 

 

All the early season episodes have repeated on cable so often it is hard for me to imagine not seeing seasons one to five.

 

Anyway the interaction between Sheldon and Leonard has always been central (at least from season one to five). Leonard's relationship to Penny has shifted in different seasons. Sheldon's relationship with Amy has slowly grown and changed since early season four. Also, Penny's relationships with Bernadette and Amy grew. I suppose all of that made Leonard seem less central than in season's one to three.

 

Also, just as a matter of opinion I think boy meets girl and then boy starts to try to get girl is most interesting initially. By the time Leonard and Penny got engaged even the gang was more interested in Raj's news. At the beginning Amy was not even dreamed up. As Amy and Sheldon became more of a reality their story got time.

 

Put down's from Sheldon to everyone are just part of his character.

 

From s1e1 there have been three stars. Johnny, Jim and Kaley. I can't really imagine the bbt without all three. When the series started it was Kaley's face I recognized because of 8 Simple Rules.

Edited by djsurrey
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Agree with that dj. Didn't mean to downplay the Sheldon/Leonard relationship as opposed to Lenny. That was and still is a given in most episodes but I still see Leonard as the straight guy in that so Sheldon stands out more. Agree that all the other relationships have cut into his screen time. Also get that Lenny relationship has become part of the furniture of the show and Sheldon/Amy stands out more because of its unique nature. Having said that, I sort of get vasu's point about Leonard as support role. Without being the standout role, he sort of holds the show together with the other characters being fed the best moments and the best jokes. He's needed to allow those moments to happen. I just think that's always been his role in the show.

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It would be great to have a Leonard centric story line. He certainly deserves one. Maybe this tenure thing will payout and he'll be professor Leonard.

Leonard's romantic journey has been a central story of the show since the beginning. Not just with Penny.

But Leonard was my first favorite character on the show until Amy ordered a glass of tepid water, so I have a soft spot for him.

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Well said, Lionne. When I talk about Leonard as support, I don't mean he is a supporting character like Raj or Howard. I mean as a main character, he supports all the stories because he's involved in all of them and always has been. As was suggested to Sheldon by Amy in season 4 when Leonard was with Priya, the social life of the group centres around wherever Leonard is.

Vasu, on the other hand, seems to be suggesting he has been relegated to Howard/Raj status, which I reject.

Edited by Itwasdestined
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I also agree with Lionne. Leonard has been the most stable of all the characters on the show. He's had the same job and has always been in love with Penny. With all the changes with Penny's job, Raj being able to talk to women(Emily), and Sheldon's job/ relationship issues(Amy and L/P) he really hasn't been front and center. It seems though that could be changing with Penny getting some job success (and money) and how he will react to that. IMO the excitement of the Raj/Emily relationship will settle down(especially if it doesn't last). Sheldon is not going to be quitting the university (who's kidding who on that) and he will figure out what to do with the L/P living relationship. His only problem will be with Amy which IMO will be his only main storyline. Howard/Bernadette have always been mainly in the background. Thus it seems to me there will be something for Leonard with or without a Penny storyline.

Edited by Chrismo
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I'm actually hoping he might get a professorship. It was interesting when Raj played the Murder Mystery that that was apparently Leonard's dream. To me that would be more interesting than tenure. We could see how a promotion affected Leonard's ore, see him dealing with students, perhaps? It could have some interesting fallout and plots, especially if it really tied Leonard down and Penny was ambivalent about it.

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I'm actually hoping he might get a professorship. It was interesting when Raj played the Murder Mystery that that was apparently Leonard's dream. To me that would be more interesting than tenure. We could see how a promotion affected Leonard's ore, see him dealing with students, perhaps? It could have some interesting fallout and plots, especially if it really tied Leonard down and Penny was ambivalent about it.

IMO tenure is a non story. Does it matter who gets it? With Penny's changing jobs I'm not sure they will have Leonard's job change. I will agree it would be more of a story. It seems to have both changing jobs, new living arrangements?, and an upcoming wedding  to be a lot of story for 19 minutes an episode. They have also dealt in the past about Sheldon and Leonard teaching at the university.

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IMO tenure is a non story. Does it matter who gets it? With Penny's changing jobs I'm not sure they will have Leonard's job change. I will agree it would be more of a story. It seems to have both changing jobs, new living arrangements?, and an upcoming wedding  to be a lot of story for 19 minutes an episode. They have also dealt in the past about Sheldon and Leonard teaching at the university.

I agree that tenure is a non-story to me, especially at this point. It was introduced I one episode in season 6 and has never come back up again. It was never settled, and a lot of people would just like the plot line wrapped up in some way (why did no one ask who got tenure at CC?) but I don't have any need to be reminded of that episode or see one of the guys get it. This is partly why I think Leonard becoming a professor would be more interesting. If that is his dream - and the way he defended the idea to Penny indicated maybe it is where he's looking to go in the future - it has plot possibilities and would give Leonard a new storyline/goal outside of getting Penny to the altar.

I'd like something for Leonard to be engaged in for plot other than trumped up issues with Penny to bicker about and threaten to derail the wedding. We know Leonard and Penny are endgame, so sometimes the interpersonal "crisises" ring hollow since you know they will get over them sooner or later. I enjoyed watching Leonard attempt to use an elliptical machine and attempt to rap to 13-year old girls - that stuff was funny and I'd prefer more pitfalls for him like that rather than the idea a more financially independent and confident Penny will unbalance their relationship. Chuck's spoiler about that has me a little worried we'll see insecure Leonard rear his ugly head, which is a side of his character I don't really buy anymore. He's engaged to Penny now, they've been through 7 years on-and-off, already act like a married couple, and are fully committed. His insecurity makes no sense to me at this point, and I'd rather not see it come back in relation to her.

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I watched "The Holographic Excitation" last night. It's my favorite episode for a few reasons, but mostly because Leonard is so comfortable and confident in his lab. This is where he shines. Penny realizes how much she really does love him and it sure doesn't look like "a new, boring love" to me. So, yeah, no more insecure Leonard when it comes to Penny. That's not funny or realistic anymore.  I'd like to see more of the confident, smart Leonard this season.  And it would be great to see Lenny bask in some happy engagement bliss befor the bickering sets in.

 

Guess we'll find out soon enough!

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Although now I think the most loved and recognized character is Sheldon I think that in the beginning Leonard was supposed to be the big star. Maybe because he was in the middle of the big three Sheldon's best friend and closer to Penny than the other guys. Of course Penny and Sheldon are also friends and have interesting dynamics but Leonard was always closer to the both of them than Sheldon and Penny ever were.

As for season 7 the only thing that I can say is that I personally missed Leonard a little. He was in every episode but I felt like he wasn't one of the characters the writers wanted to focus on. Lenny moved forward but it was mainly because some of Penny's issues came up and were resolved. I don't think I could call him supportive but I think Leonard along with Howard and Bernadette were left aside a little cause the time was needed for the other characters. Same for Amy though I don't think the problem was the lack of time rather than the lack of her POV in general. Not that there wasn't any but I would like more.

On the contrary while I missed Leonard this season I remember that in most of my reviews I mentioned how Leonard was big part of the funny in some episodes. He had some pretty funny lines that allowed Johnny to demonstrate his talent. And at the end of the day what Big Bang knows how to do is comedy and I think it's not too crazy to assume that the funny lines sometimes are more important and precious than story arcs. TBBT knows how to do both but there are problems with continuity and throw away lines or not it can be a pretty annoying thing. So I wouldn't underestimate what Leonard had this season. I also hope the writers will deal again with him at some point in the future.

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I'd like something for Leonard to be engaged in for plot other than trumped up issues with Penny to bicker about and threaten to derail the wedding. We know Leonard and Penny are endgame, so sometimes the interpersonal "crisises" ring hollow since you know they will get over them sooner or later. I enjoyed watching Leonard attempt to use an elliptical machine and attempt to rap to 13-year old girls - that stuff was funny and I'd prefer more pitfalls for him like that rather than the idea a more financially independent and confident Penny will unbalance their relationship. Chuck's spoiler about that has me a little worried we'll see insecure Leonard rear his ugly head, which is a side of his character I don't really buy anymore. He's engaged to Penny now, they've been through 7 years on-and-off, already act like a married couple, and are fully committed. His insecurity makes no sense to me at this point, and I'd rather not see it come back in relation to her.

Chuck's spoiler to me actually could mean many things. Penny has had many more career disappointments than successes. Money has always been a problem for her throughout the seven seasons. In many ways Leonard likes taking care of her. From going to get the TV in season 1, paying rent and food through the years, to buying her a car last season has made Penny need Leonard more than just being a boyfriend. What if she pays him back for the car? Takes him out to dinner? Pays for a trip? Will Leonard not like the new balance? Or will he figure it's about time. Same goes with Penny. Will she spend more money on their relationship or not? Will she think she owes him for everything or leave things as they are. I agree the Leonard insecurity is old but an independent and confident Penny won't necessarily make her more secure with her relationship with Leonard. I agree with djsurrey. The writers don't do harlequin.

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I don't want Penny and Leonard to get married this season but I don't want them to break up again either. I'd like it if they ended the season with Leonard having tenure so he can't move to another position and Penny getting the opportunity to go to Toronto or Bollywood for some kind of movie opportunity that would cause them to have to postpone the wedding indefinitely. It seems to be a regular thing now for all or one of the guys to take off over the hiatus. I think it should be Penny's turn next.

 

(Writers, feel free to use this. I promise not to sue.)

:)

Edited by Tomasina

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 I really don't think Leonard is that immature. I'll be really disappointed if they write him that way.

 

My guess is that Penny with money, is going to be Penny unleashed. Penny finally free to go shopping with Raj in Beverly Hills! Penny finally free to buy other people drinks and dinner! She can eat what the boys are eating because that's what she wants to eat not because the alternative is the pickle juice/battery that's in her own fridge.  

 

She's going to be spending money like crazy. She's still probably going to be broke, she's just going to be broke with a nicer lifestyle (been there!).

 

Leonard might rain and her parade with concepts like 401k and saving for the wedding or that her credit score is still to crappy to get a mortgage. Which might be a little to real for BBT.

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