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S8 Discussion Thread


bigbangsheldon

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I love the Leonard character but I also know he is not perfect. I think more than anyone else in this show, for a long time ( although IMO not anymore) , Leonard has been controlled by his need to be loved, because of the lack of it . Wolowitz would fantasise but was incapable of getting much real actIon ( Leslie was an exception) but Leonard, despite the ribbing by his friends actually could get women and he really needed to. And on many occasions they were reactions to Penny. Leslie was a pure reaction to Penny rejection. Stephanie showed interest at a time that Penny wasn't. Slutbunny Plimpton was right after the heartbreaking breakup. The old lady ( can never remember her name ) and Priya came after his false hope of reunion with Penny in Love Car. And outside of Penny, the Alice incident was a build up of doubt about Priya, months of separation and again his need for affection.

The common factor in all of these significantly in the what type of person is Leonard debate is ALL of these women sought out Leonard. And even Penny did too in the end when he came back from the North Pole. In some of these instances, there is an argument for Leonard saying no in some of these occasions but he couldn't because he is obsessed with the need to be wanted and loved. He didn't do out of betrayal to Howard or Raj ( doing his sister), he did it because of his need for love. But other than Priya, they were all short term because the love he really needed was Penny. And one thing that can never be doubted is his loyalty to her. He will never cheat on her while they are together - EVER. Alex was proof of that. If she had been around in Seasons 1-4 or pre Recombination, he would have jumped on her like there was no tomorrow. But he was with Penny so he didn't even consider it as an option. So yeah criticise Leonard for being a slave to his loins but don't even suggest he would cheat. And his loyalty to his friends - unquestionable. It's just that he's loyal to his penis as well!

Edited by Itwasdestined
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Here comes a bold statement - in a secular technological society where people are not property, infidelity is completely subjective and determined by the participant individuals. I think Gene Roddenberry would agree, and Heinlein. Old Sheldon would have too. LOL

That's very true! But what is important for these participants is to find same view on the matter in relationship. As Leonard's we all know, I had a feeling he went against his own believes and it felt odd to me. But it was one occasion in eight years, so who would hold this against him ? Plus it was only plot to break him up with  Priya... since she was thousands of miles away, there wasn't much plots to use. 

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Yeah, you might want to go back and refresh your memory. He struggled with it, ultimately not cheating. Of course your going to have to define what exactly constitutes cheating. For some, a make out session isn't cheating. did he go with the intention of cheating, of course. Did he break it off, before it went farther than kissing? Yep, that hardly seems willingly. Nice twisting of the actual scene to fit your preconceived notions. You want to quote penny showing she cheered him on? It was his jerk of a roommate that gave him reason to consider it.

Give me a break. How is making out with someone who is NOT your significant other NOT cheating?

And then he had that line about how he was really the good guy because he stopped himself from actually sleeping with her.

The girl (Alice?) was absolutely right in her assessment of him in that scene.

Not one of Leonard's shining moments. Oh, but it's all good because he didn't really love Priya? Whatever. The he should have broken up with her FIRST and then done whatever he wanted with the comic book store chick.

Sorry, but infidelity isn't something I root for, even in sitcoms.

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Nah, Poptart, being tempted but not starting is not infidelity. Being tempted, starting then stopping is still infidelity. If my wife walked in on me locking tongues with someone as I said no this is wrong, she'd still think I was cheating on her and vice versa. Out of all of Leonard's moments, this is the only one I don't defend. I just see it as in character, not out of character, because as I said above Leonard is ruled by his weakness to women who show him interest in him WHEN he feels alone. This was the episode the writers were breaking up Priya and Leonard. They did it by having them both be unfaithful to show their love wasn't real unlike the Lenny love that has never been at risk of infidelity, just doubt.

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Nah, Poptart, being tempted but not starting is not infidelity. Being tempted, starting then stopping is still infidelity. If my wife walked in on me locking tongues with someone as I said no this is wrong, she'd still think I was cheating on her and vice versa. Out of all of Leonard's moments, this is the only one I don't defend. I just see it as in character, not out of character, because as I said above Leonard is ruled by his weakness to women who show him interest in him WHEN he feels alone. This was the episode the writers were breaking up Priya and Leonard. They did it by having them both be unfaithful to show their love wasn't real unlike the Lenny love that has never been at risk of infidelity, just doubt.

I have to admit you've made a valid point! I guess I never really thought that deeply about what causes his behavior. But yes, he have a strong need for love and closeness  (probably caused by emotional deprivation in childhood, as  Freud and his mother would say hehe)  it can drive his behavior and it's part of his character, so yes, now when I think of it from this pov, it doesn't seem so ooc. Fortunately he found the right person to give his heart to :)

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I think Leonard was facing an extreme inner struggle during this episode. In his heart of hearts he knew his future with Priya was in doubt. Meeting Alice, he found (yet another) beautiful woman who seemed interested in him. Knowing that attempting to act on a mutual attraction was wrong due to his (albeit confused) relationship status, he went to Penny for her opinion and perhaps her blessing/ permission to do the unthinkable. When her reply was sarcastic at best (to the best of my recollection---it's been a while since I've seen the episode), he went ahead anyway. When the moment of truth came, he admitted all to Alice. He then went to confess to Priya. To Attorney Koothrappali's relief, she found she wasn't alone in her unfaithfulness. Thus ended the darkest days of the Leonard & Penny friendship/relationship. Yes he cheated. Yes it was wrong. However the relationship with Priya was broken beyond repair when she returned to India (planning to do so in advance without letting her SO know).....

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Edited by hokie3457
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A blackmail? Threatening? Very mature.

I think that the statement about Leonard was purposely irronic, to show how some people over react over the whole Raj/Bernadette thing. No Leonard bashing there. And you still have no right to order people what can and what they can't write. Grow up.

But I still think that Raj/Bernadette thing was creepy. And no, I don't think that Leonard cheated on Priya.

I don't threaten. I was being very clear what was going to happen if the Leonard bashing continued and I had no trouble starting it.

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Nah, Poptart, being tempted but not starting is not infidelity. Being tempted, starting then stopping is still infidelity. If my wife walked in on me locking tongues with someone as I said no this is wrong, she'd still think I was cheating on her and vice versa. Out of all of Leonard's moments, this is the only one I don't defend. I just see it as in character, not out of character, because as I said above Leonard is ruled by his weakness to women who show him interest in him WHEN he feels alone. This was the episode the writers were breaking up Priya and Leonard. They did it by having them both be unfaithful to show their love wasn't real unlike the Lenny love that has never been at risk of infidelity, just doubt.

Are you really trying to compare being married to two people that are in faltering distance relationship, that have made no real commitment to each other? Also remember how Leonard found out she was leaving, their relationship was really going downhill after that.

Gosh but this thread is so mature lately *insert sarcasm* And that applies across the board, to all ships, all cracked ships etc.

Sigh...

We need a new episode or taping stat so there's something constructive to attack other than each other.

Everybody on this forum has shown some sort of immaturity, even me and even you. People are passionate with their feelings on the show, that is why they are on the forum in the first place. Being sarcastic because people are not writing things to push your buttons is not confirmation your more mature than anyone else.

To me, if you're doing something (anything) sexual with someone that you would never do in front of your SO, it's cheating.

But like Leonard said, he only messed up a little. Priya messed up a lot!

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Everybody seems to forget, even though she would have never found out, he confessed to Priya and was ready to accept the consequences.

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I don't claim to be more mature than anyone else, ever. So let's be very clear on that. And plenty of people push my buttons all the time. I just choose to keep the personal vendettas out of it when I do react. And that is not what has been going on in this thread lately. That's my beef here, the lack of respectful debate from some posters, all on sides of the fandom lines, not just my own.

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I think Leonard was facing an extreme inner struggle during this episode. In his heart of hearts he knew his future with Priya was in doubt. Meeting Alice, he found (yet another) beautiful woman who seemed interested in him. Knowing that attempting to act on a mutual attraction was wrong due to his (albeit confused) relationship status, he went to Penny for her opinion and perhaps her blessing/ permission to do the unthinkable. When her reply was sarcastic at best (to the best of my recollection---it's been a while since I've seen the episode), he went ahead anyway. When the moment of truth came, he admitted all to Alice. He then went to confess to Priya. To Attorney Koothrappali's relief, she found she wasn't alone in her unfaithfulness. Thus ended the darkest days of the Leonard & Penny friendship/relationship. Yes he cheated. Yes it was wrong. However the relationship with Priya was broken beyond repair when she returned to India (planning to do so in advance without letting her SO know).....

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So I'm less scrupulous than the Lenny boys. I thought Leonard was good since he walked away. Way better than what Priya deserved at any rate.  :icon_redface: If he had broken up with that demon-woman before she went back to India like he should have done, this would be a whole different, more interesting conversation. Lalice? Lenice?Alnard?

Anyhow.

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If the break with the "demon-woman" (love that moniker btw!!) occurred when she departed Pasadena for India, there may have been an earlier reunion between the blonde and the experimental physicist!

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Edited by hokie3457
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Are you really trying to compare being married to two people that are in faltering distance relationship, that have made no real commitment to each other? Also remember how Leonard found out she was leaving, their relationship was really going downhill after that.

No. I was disagreeing with Poptarts definition of cheating. I also wouldn't have got to the married stage if my wife and I had walked in on each other kissing someone else before we got engaged. Everyone has a different moral code here which they are entitled to. I was just explaining mine. And I thought my multiple posts made it clear I was aware of the state of Leonard and Priya's relationship. Still think they both cheated which was how the writers created the breakup. But I'm done. At some point the Season 8 thread will return to discussing Season 8 when Season 8 resumes.

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Not one of Leonard's shining moments. Oh, but it's all good because he didn't really love Priya? Whatever.

Hey, you have your definition, I have mine, were not going to agree and that's fine.  But, I want to address what I quoted.  If you want to quote me, fine.  If you want to answer someone else, quote them.  But, at least have the courtesy to not quote me, then provide an answer to someone else, making it appear I've said something I didn't. If nothing else, mention them by name and then give them an answer.

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Here comes a bold statement - in a secular technological society where people are not property, infidelity is completely subjective and determined by the participant individuals. I think Gene Roddenberry would agree, and Heinlein. Old Sheldon would have too. LOL

Soooo, is that why Howard thought that Leonard and Penny might want to "swing" with him and Bernie?

 

"Yeah. Like I'd swing with him." Loved that line!

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Yup. Much as I didn't like Priya, Leonard was a real jerk to cheat on her so willingly.

Although Penny seemed to cheer him on, so I guess it's cool with her that fidelity isn't his strong suit.

No one was meant to like Priya, she was there to be disliked by all. Leonard was a jerk to make a promise to her that he obviously had no motivation to keep, given that Priya had not shown any indication that she actually liked him other than as a bang buddy and an illicit thrill. Penny may have seemed to you to cheer him on but what I heard was that she put it back on him to make his own decision. And he eventually chose to decline Alice's invitation. So given that he had only a reciprocally weak commitment to Priya and this was one event and we had four years of watching him not give up on his attachment to Penny, despite her constantly rebuffing him, I think that to make any negative assumption about his ability to remain faithful is a stretch, given where they are now, four years later - together.

But this was a great discussion starter. Kudos for that. I just hope season 8 manages to leave a similarly engaging legacy as season 4 - my favourite season.

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Give me a break. How is making out with someone who is NOT your significant other NOT cheating?

And then he had that line about how he was really the good guy because he stopped himself from actually sleeping with her.

The girl (Alice?) was absolutely right in her assessment of him in that scene.

Not one of Leonard's shining moments. Oh, but it's all good because he didn't really love Priya? Whatever. The he should have broken up with her FIRST and then done whatever he wanted with the comic book store chick.

Sorry, but infidelity isn't something I root for, even in sitcoms.

Lol its not infidelity. He never made out with her. Leonard and Priya were both in the same boat. Being in a long distance relationship. It's hard. But comparing Leonard kissing her for what five seconds. Compared to Priya actually sleeping with her ex. Makes her look like the bad one. I never said Leonard was the good guy. But like iwd said. Leonard is guilty of just wanting to be loved. I'm not saying getting with Alice. In any form of intimacy was the right thing to do. But the reason he went to Penny was to rationalize it. Which shows he knew it was wrong. And was already feeling guilty. Hence why he didn't go through with it. Priya cheating in another country cancelled what Leonard NEARLY did out. He should of done it tbh. Their relationship was over. Tensors right you are twisting what happened to suit your pre conceived notions of Leonard. But whatever. Are you really giving Leonard a hard time based on one isolated event five seasons ago. When its been proven through Alex he would in never do something like that ever again.

Edited by 3ku11
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No one was meant to like Priya, she was there to be disliked by all. Leonard was a jerk to make a promise to her that he obviously had no motivation to keep, given that Priya had not shown any indication that she actually liked him other than as a bang buddy and an illicit thrill. Penny may have seemed to you to cheer him on but what I heard was that she put it back on him to make his own decision. And he eventually chose to decline Alice's invitation. So given that he had only a reciprocally weak commitment to Priya and this was one event and we had four years of watching him not give up on his attachment to Penny, despite her constantly rebuffing him, I think that to make any negative assumption about his ability to remain faithful is a stretch, given where they are now, four years later - together.

But this was a great discussion starter. Kudos for that. I just hope season 8 manages to leave a similarly engaging legacy as season 4 - my favourite season.

I'm surprised that a Lenny would like Season 4 the most. How come?

It's my worst, I think.

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I just got word from Warner Brothers that The Big Bang Theory taped a secret episode in front of a VIP audience. The plot is: Amy and Bernadette go on a wild science retreat together where they run into Hunky McHunkerson (Max Adler) who initiates a threesome. Amy and Bernie, alive with their new sexual appetites, decide to run away together and start their own spin-off show: The Gang Bang Theory.

 

Discuss.

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I just got word from Warner Brothers that The Big Bang Theory taped a secret episode in front of a VIP audience. The plot is: Amy and Bernadette go on a wild science retreat together where they run into Hunky McHunkerson (Max Adler) who initiates a threesome. Amy and Bernie, alive with their new sexual appetites, decide to run away together and start their own spin-off show: The Gang Bang Theory.

 

Discuss.

Whhhaaatt ? 

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