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S8 Discussion Thread

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I'm not a writer so what do I know, but I really wish at the end of the experiment Sheldon and Penny would have discussed how much Amy and Leonard mean to them and how truly important they are to them. I just felt that was missing. They've both come so far because Amy and Leonard have pushed them outside of their comfort zones to experience a greater love. They are a very important part of their lives, so I thought they would have been mentioned in a more serious way. Like I said what do I know, I am no writer just a fan of the show who wanted to see some Lenny and Shamy love.

Edited by loriparis80
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 Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and all, but I don't think we are watching the same show.  All I have seen from this season is how head over heels Sheldon is for Amy and vice versa.  This episode doesn't change that and as a matter of fact proves to me how confident they actually are in their relationship.  Hell, in the cold open he talks about proclaiming his love for her.  I think all the stuff with Sheldon and Penny was just them playing up to the part for the experiment and really nothing to do with how they feel or don't feel about Amy and Leonard.  

I am focused on one line

 

"If this experiment works?" 

 

Penny to give credit, which I usually never do, is the one who says it would never work, so dont worry.  Sheldon didn't.  The possibility was there.  THAT is what took away all the sweet Shamy moments for me.  It is so disposable.  

 

They didnt end it sweet, they didnt end it by declaring love for the SO.  They ended it with PEnny going back on a promise not to tell anyone SHeldon's birthday.  Like Michy said, so much lost opportunity.  So much they could have done, and didn't.  WHY?  because Sheldon and AMy's relationship is not important to how they write Sheldon. Not anymore that he could say that.    "Let's do this, babe" will be sticking in my head for a long time.  Too long to keep faith alive. 

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Whats the bet the show gets a lot of hate mail over this ep, they decide not to air it lol. OF course casual fans have no idea about tapings muahaha.

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I'm not sure why everyone is upset by this taping. It seems people care more about their ship than about the show. The Shenny relationship has always been one of the main relationships on the show. Sheldon has always had a close relationship with Penny.. He's known her longer than Amy. Someone mentioned earlier that Sheldon flirted with her. This was all a part of an experiment. I don't think he's confidant enough to do that with Amy. when he grabbed her ass at Thanksgiving he was drunk. Both of them took the experiment seriously. Sheldon mentioned that he wished he could read minds and Penny mentioned she wished she was as smart as the rest. Penny mentioned how she really doesn't remember life before moving in which I thought was somewhat touching. I admit some of this experiment was info we already knew but am still not quite understanding while people are ready to jump off a cliff. Sheldon andPenny were very much themselves as were Leonard and Amy. I could see at the end a big uproar if Shenny started making out but nothing happened. I'm as guilty as others at times for getting caught up in the ships and wished this was more of a Lenny episode but if the show ends up funny and nothing monumentally wrong happens among the characters I'm fine with that.

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I actually found Sheldon was the ONLY on seemingly to take the experiment seriously.   Penny didn't take it seriously... and Amy and Leonard seemed confident in their SO's which was the only truly positive that came from this specific story.   But Sheldon literally was flirting with Penny, dismissing his claimed love for Amy by even trying and even setting some sort of "future plans" in place in case the experiment worked.   He behaved as if he "wanted" it to work.   But Penny did not.   She was clearly disinterested in him, but she also wasn't terribly interested in Leonard either.   The "shallow" Penny came forward (UGH).   

 

I am not so sure that Amy would have been very pleased if she had seen her boyfriend working so hard to make the experiment work, even if the result was good and he still didn't fall for Penny.   It was disconcerting to see him trying so hard.

 

And no, Sheldon I don't think played anything up.  He was truly giving it a good old college try.   

 

The way they could have made everyone feel better about it would be for Sheldon to have gone back to Amy and reassured her of his love for her and how the experiment failed and Penny done the same to Leonard.   It is how they left it so weird that was uncomfortable.

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I think its the fact they were in a position of staring at each other. I mean I guess since joining this site I have gotten so much more emotionally invested in the characters then I used too haha. The concept is so polarizing. I mean the point is, it is probably a good thing, they didn't do it with strangers. But I don't know, I am not bothered by the outcome because that was always an inevitability. Just the idea of them being intimate and staring at each other lol, is so weird and contrived. But that's just me. And the fact Leonard comes across disposable, I am more concerned about that tbh. May play out differently. But it was almost like the old Penny in the pilot reared her ugly head. Like showed complete disintersest in Sheldon, as she didn't take it seriously because its ridiculous. But she also dismissed Leonard too, like she did a lot in the first two seasons. I mean they already did this in S5 "He is so not the guy". Why the need? I don't think its a big deal. I just personally think its unneccssary, but what ever.

Edited by 3ku11
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I actually found Sheldon was the ONLY on seemingly to take the experiment seriously.   Penny didn't take it seriously... and Amy and Leonard seemed confident in their SO's which was the only truly positive that came from this specific story.   But Sheldon literally was flirting with Penny, dismissing his claimed love for Amy by even trying and even setting some sort of "future plans" in place in case the experiment worked.   He behaved as if he "wanted" it to work.   But Penny did not.   She was clearly disinterested in him, but she also wasn't terribly interested in Leonard either.   The "shallow" Penny came forward (UGH).   

 

 

EXACTLY!!

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I think both took the experiment seriously though Sheldon may have acted s little out of character.

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What the crap did I just read? Dear lord...

Thank you Michy for the report. I'm sorry you had to witness this trainwreck.

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Not only does it sound like Almost Anything Can Happen reoccurrence, the reaction to it sounds like it will be as well. Hopefully in the cold light of day if anyone can get themselves to sleep after this 'disaster', you'll all remember how you survived the end of Season 7 when some were catatonic and giving up all hope and recovered with the joy of most of Season 8. There are many things in this world going on more stressful than Sheldon saying something to Penny he hasn't said to Amy or Penny jokingly preferring to be hanging out with Downey jr and cabana boys while Leonard's reading a book.

But I don't want to seem unsympathetic. I get that I'm an emotionless automaton who recovers quickly from disappointment while others have developed a deep connection to these characters. But the traumas of Season 7 were healed by Proms et al. It too shall pass. ( and yeah this is probably more directed at disappointed Shamy fans - Lennies have been feeling like this all season and I've got nothing left to add on that )

But that's just me. I read a report on an episode that like Reoccurrence probably won't be in my repeated viewing list not because of Shenny innuendo but because I'm not sure it will be that funny. But it still could be. I'll see how it goes. Sorry if I upset anyone for not being upset.

One thing I'll probably agree on is that it is quite amazing the lengths the writers seem to be going to avoid writing a nice Lenny plot. I mean this story did not have to happen.

ETA. Marina Well said.

Edited by Itwasdestined
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Not only does it sound like Almost Anything Can Happen reoccurrence, the reaction to it sounds like it will be as well. Hopefully in the cold light of day if anyone can get themselves to sleep after this 'disaster', you'll all remember how you survived the end of Season 7 when some were catatonic and giving up all hope and recovered with the joy of most of Season 8. There are many things in this world going on more stressful than Sheldon saying something to Penny he hasn't said to Amy or Penny jokingly preferring to be hanging out with Downey jr and cabana boys while Leonard's reading a book.

One thing I'll probably agree on is that it is quite amazing the lengths the writers seem to be going to avoid writing a nice Lenny plot. I mean this story did not have to happen.

ETA. Marina Well said.

i do agree on the avoiding Lenny plots. That why I finf it hard to believe the show is going past season 10. I'm not sure it's "shocking " Sheldon saying something to Penny and not Amy. Also hanging out Downer jr. Isn't shocking. asked the same question I would say Kaley and I'm married. LOL

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Its true though. It did not have to happen. They did this last season. And in S5 with Penny saying he is so not the guy. Do we need them to try an artificially test if they have romantic feelings? lol. I mean what the purpose, why would Penny want to do that, doesn't make sense to me. I know what the writers were going for trying to get rid of the whole Shenny thing through a scientific expeirement. And I don't usually get so emotional about tapings, ever really. But this is a rare occurrence, kinda hit a nerve as silly as that sounds. It is just the length they well go in diminishing Leonard, and making him seem disposable. After Sheldon and Penny just had a lovely chat, increased their intimacy as brother and sister (even though they are technically not). Leonard and Amy comes along, oh theirs our partners. Almost like Three's Company. The story about two polar opposite people. Leonard and Amy are their squeezes for the episode lol, that's how it came across to me. OVerall the taping report is not as bad as I first though. Clearly Penny was disinterested. She was just curious, because she never had a opportunity to get so personal with the wackadoodle. But I don't know, its funny for something that has never technically been real on the show. Boy does it generate a reaction. Sounds silly but it makes me sad Leonard feels like he is dissaparing.

Edited by 3ku11
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Yeah, Chrismo, I meant to say that too. If I was asked a hypothetical best day ever scenario I'd list many things not including my wife (or kids). Doesn't make me love her less. One great day does not a life make. And one crazy episode does not a ship destroy.

. And I don't usually get so emotional about tapings, ever really. But this is a rare occurrence, kinda hit a nerve as silly as that sounds. /quote]

Yeah what happened to you skull? You're getting soft

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Honestly, as interesting as the long paragraphs of speculation/justification are, I think this is mostly about how they can advertise to grab more viewers during sweeps month. I can already imagine the suggestive voiceover...

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I will start with what I liked - Howardette plot. Simon and Mellisa are always amazing while they get great material, so I'm sure I will enjoy this one. Zombie plot can be also funny... I will look forward to it. 

Shenny... well, that will be probably the most ooc episode I saw. I just can't remove the feeling, that writers decided to burn down most of characteristics of their characters to bring this (not very good) plot.  Sheldon was created as character which was above falling in love as "hippie," and had to spend four years to slowly admit his love for his girlfriend. Now he consider falling love in 36 questions and 4 minutes of starring in eyes of a stranger and even Penny... like anybody else. And when this able to flirt and 'let's take this seriously and talk about our feelings' Sheldon came from ? Not mention his idea of perfect day includes Amy long time dead... gosh. Didn't he spend last 4 years making hard changes to keep her in his life? ( and this line had some laughs?). Amy is envy about Sheldon and Penny being so close, still, she isn't worried at all while there is opportunity for him to fall in love with her. 

 Leonard was shameless begging... writers forget that every time they were apart, Leonard was handling it quite better than Penny? He didn't spend very much time begging Penny, he had different relationships, moving forward, while she always regret it and was trying to still be near him ...Of course he was showing her his interest but shameless begging? It's little hard.

And what disappointed me the most is that to Leonard and Amy was enough one question to discover it can't happen, Shenny needed whole episode  (this fact will sure be enjoyable for Shenny shippers).

I'm not overly sad about it or anything, cause I guess it was writers way to tell us Shenny can't happen, but I think it could be done in better taste, at least show their appreciation of their partners, like it was  said here many times, and it didn't have to be so ooc. Yeah I'm a little creep out, uncomfortable and confused, but hey, it's just one episode. As long as they come back to their usual portray of characters, I can handle 4 minutes of uncomfortable starring out of 20 minutes episode. Even while there will be hard to finding silver linings in this, one episode will not change Lenny or Shamy relationship and their wonderful development over all those years.

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Honestly, as interesting as the long paragraphs of speculation/justification are, I think this is mostly about how they can advertise to grab more viewers during sweeps month. I can already imagine the suggestive voiceover...

On this we can agree. Certainly in Australia, channel nine will have a field day with this and I'll have all my non obsessed BBT friends a hassling me about what is going on with Sheldon and Penny.

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As far as the Shenny part of the episode that's worrying people, let me try to break this down:

Penny is simply interested in this experiment in order to be able to ask Sheldon personal questions. She finds him curious, and she doesn't often get to confront him with personal questions, such as the "Are you ever going to sleep with Amy" bit. Penny loves gossip. Penny loves knowing sordid details and intimate things about the people around her; she's a people person. So the opportunity to weasel some personal information out of Sheldon is interesting to her, and she wants to do it. But only to get him to confess some secrets to her; to satisfy some personal curiosity, not because she believes she'll fall in love with him.

Sheldon also doesn't believe he'd fall in love with her. But, the entire line asking her about "if she falls in love with him, will she drive him to Gary Con" does two things at the same time: it shows that Sheldon is both as delusionally arrogant as ever, and as incredibly selfish as ever. The same man who also thinks he's the whimsical elf every turns to for a good time, the man around whom the entire group friendship is formed, whom everyone loves and admires - so arrogant at times he has little grip on the reality of how people see him, he thinks that it's possible Penny will fall in love with him. And how would he respond to her love? By using her, of course. Using her to drive him across country to some con she would never want to go to, because there's a strong aspect to Sheldon that has no problem using people's love for him to get what he wants. Whether it's cookies or toys or bobblehead dolls. So his immediate though - which is so loving and attractive - is that if the experiment works it means he can get a ride. Penny, who is obviously rolling her eyes at how selfish and arrogant Sheldon is being - and is smart enough NOT to find selfishness and arrogance all that attractive - uses sarcasm she knows he won't understand and promises to drive him and buy him as many stupid tee-shirts as he wants.

And Sheldon's response of, "let's do this, babe," is about him getting ready to fake it to get something he really wants. Which is a ride to Gary Con and some teeshirts. I think that the writers are making a pretty obvious statement here to reiterate all the things we know about Sheldon: he'll do anything to get his way, he's selfish, he's arrogant, and he doesn't pick up on sarcasm whatsoever. Penny wasn't being serious with her promise, but Sheldon didn't get that and so suddenly this carrot of teeshirts and a con - things he loves - are dangled in front of him, and so he prepares himself to go into this situation and FAKE IT (since when would Sheldon ever call someone "babe" in all seriousness? You know he just picked that word because he's heard the lunkhead types use it for their women, and so he adopts it. It's completely fake, and that's part of what's so funny about it. Sheldon our unromantic, alien robot-boy trying to imitate a lunkhead surfer dude's attitude and language, which we know on him is totally fake and out-of-character, and that he's only adopting in order to get a teeshirt and a ride.)

And then they go through the questions, and the stare down, which neither of them can get through to the others satisfaction or real interest. But Penny does learn that Sheldon is not as toweringly confident as she thought, and Sheldon learns.....well, I'm not sure Sheldon learns all that much, at least not much that he cares about. But they put that stare in there just to bait anyone who still is holding a Shenny torch, and they wait a sweet and juicy beat, and then the writers kill it. And then they heap on the part about Sheldon and Penny agreeing they see each other like brother and sister, which REALLY puts the ice on any possibility of a romantic spark.

In the meantime, they have Leonard and Amy be as unthreatened as they can possibly be. And also show that Leonard is still holding a torch for Penny, with a touch of insecurity, with every breath he takes. While Amy can solve a puzzle room, shut down a zombie like a bad ass, and not give one solid f*ck about Sheldon and Penny doing this experiment together.

My guess is that this episode was in reaction to two things. 1) The article already mentioned in this thread that's been going around Facebook about how anyone can fall in love by asking intimate questions and staring into each other's eyes for 4 minutes. (Total absurdity.) and 2) The woman who was tweeting Bill awhile ago about "is Shamy canon?" and completely went off the handle about how rude he was when he said that Lenny's engagement should have ended the Shenny speculation. Not to mention he's been tweeted other Shenny pressure despite him repeatedly saying that the relationship is not going to happen.

I've seen what I THOUGHT was some brutal mocking of the idea of Shenny - the laundry room scene from last season's Christmas episode was completely over-the-top demonstration of how gross they think that Shenny as a couple is - but apparently that didn't work so now they are going to go even further and spell it out in no uncertain terms: Sheldon and Penny are not going to fall in love, not even in a lab or any scientific experiment, and that the relationship between them is one of friendship only, and so platonic they feel like brother and sister. It's like....they are so sick of people beating a dead horse they have decided to build the horse a funeral pyre, dose it with gasoline, and set it on fire. And then gather around with long sticks and toast marshmellows on it. And then dance around it, drinking copious bottles of wine, and then put the fire out by pissing away all that wine on it.

That's how definite the entire business is. Penny promises Sheldon not to tell anyone about his birthday, understands his fear of surprises, and immediately sends out texts arranging a surprise party. How loving. And Sheldon gets through the ordeal of this experiment and they agree they are not in love, but his and most important concern (himself and his own desires) is still on his mind: so where is his ride to Gary Con and where are his tee shirts? And Penny drowns her desire to bitch slap him in another big glass of wine.

Threatening? I hardly think so.

Agreed!

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Agree I remember in s5 they Did It with Sheldon asking Penny out. Promo over here was like "is this the moment we've all been waiting for? " lol. So I think this is just the advertisers trying to pull in the casual fans. And Lio spot on.

Edited by 3ku11

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Lio's assessment is spot on. I think at times people forget that the person Sheldon cares most about is himself.

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Hmm. I actually quite like the sound of this episode.

 

a ) Howard/Bernadette: Okay, it's no secret that I think Simon Helberg is wonderful, and love that the showrunners are so confident handing him these plots mixing drama and comedy. Give the man an Emmy already. The death of a parent is traumatic always, but Howard's relationship with his mother (and, in absentia, with his father) define him so much that her loss is particularly salient and wrenching.

 

b ) Leonard/Amy: By all accounts, this sounds like a much more successful outing for the two than the Anything Can Happen Recurrence. Amy seems to shut down any promptings of jealousy like a boss, and Leonard too seems to be playacting anxiety rather than seriously feeling it. They both seem to be having fun, and eyerolling at the notion of their respective significant others falling in love over ice cream and Eye Scream (geddit? geddit?). Plus: Leonard gets to interact with someone other than Sheldon and Penny! it's nice to mix up the characters sometimes.

 

c ) Sheldon/Penny: Eh, I actually like the two together (NOT LIKE THAT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD). I've always been a fan of their friendship, and I applaud the show for not entertaining the idea of plonking together the polar-opposite leads with plenty of antagonistic chemistry (Again, NOT LIKE THAT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD). That said, this seems dramatically less satisfying to me, simply because their interaction repeats the beats that we've seen before. Sheldon and Penny patronise each other, then Sheldon lets his guard down around Penny and promptly undercuts it with some display of arrogance/childishness/whatever. It made sense at the beginning of S7 (sort of), because both Sheldon and penny were dealing with the absence of a loved one (Leonard). Here, it's just sort of-there, on the plate.

 

In other matters, is this all we get of Raj and Emily? I don't want to resuscitate the 'KISSINNNNNNNNGGGGGGG!' debate again, but we are being awfully cavalier about the first on-screen full-on relationship of one of the main cast, aren't we?

 

 

ETA: Forgot to say: THANKS FOR THE TAPING REPORT, MICHY! Once again, funny and exhaustive. Kudos!

Edited by wowbagger
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