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S8 Discussion Thread

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As far as the Shenny part of the episode that's worrying people, let me try to break this down:

Penny is simply interested in this experiment in order to be able to ask Sheldon personal questions. She finds him curious, and she doesn't often get to confront him with personal questions, such as the "Are you ever going to sleep with Amy" bit. Penny loves gossip. Penny loves knowing sordid details and intimate things about the people around her; she's a people person. So the opportunity to weasel some personal information out of Sheldon is interesting to her, and she wants to do it. But only to get him to confess some secrets to her; to satisfy some personal curiosity, not because she believes she'll fall in love with him.

Sheldon also doesn't believe he'd fall in love with her. But, the entire line asking her about "if she falls in love with him, will she drive him to Gary Con" does two things at the same time: it shows that Sheldon is both as delusionally arrogant as ever, and as incredibly selfish as ever. The same man who also thinks he's the whimsical elf every turns to for a good time, the man around whom the entire group friendship is formed, whom everyone loves and admires - so arrogant at times he has little grip on the reality of how people see him, he thinks that it's possible Penny will fall in love with him. And how would he respond to her love? By using her, of course. Using her to drive him across country to some con she would never want to go to, because there's a strong aspect to Sheldon that has no problem using people's love for him to get what he wants. Whether it's cookies or toys or bobblehead dolls. So his immediate thought - which is so loving and attractive - is that if the experiment works it means he can get a ride. Penny, who is obviously rolling her eyes at how selfish and arrogant Sheldon is being - and is smart enough NOT to find selfishness and arrogance all that attractive - uses sarcasm she knows he won't understand and promises to drive him and buy him as many stupid tee-shirts as he wants.

And Sheldon's response of, "let's do this, babe," is about him getting ready to fake it to get something he really wants because suddenly he's hooked on the idea of getting that ride and those shirts. I think that the writers are making a pretty obvious statement here to reiterate all the things we know about Sheldon: he'll do anything to get his way, he's selfish, he's arrogant, and he doesn't pick up on sarcasm whatsoever. Penny wasn't being serious with her promise, but Sheldon didn't get that and so suddenly this carrot of teeshirts and a con - things he loves - are dangled in front of him, and so he prepares himself to go into this situation and FAKE IT (since when would Sheldon ever call someone "babe" in all seriousness? You know he just picked that word because he's heard the lunkhead types use it for their women, and so he adopts it) to get that carrot. It's completely fake, and that's part of what's so funny about it. Sheldon, our unromantic, alien robot-boy, trying to imitate a lunkhead surfer dude's attitude and language, which we know on him is totally fake and out-of-character, and that he's only adopting in order to get a teeshirt and a ride.)

And then they go through the questions, and the stare down, which neither of them can get through to the others satisfaction or real interest. But Penny does learn that Sheldon is not as toweringly confident as she thought, and Sheldon learns.....well, I'm not sure Sheldon learns all that much, at least not much that he cares about. But they put that stare in there just to bait anyone who still is holding a Shenny torch, and they wait a sweet and juicy beat, and then the writers kill it. And then they heap on the part about Sheldon and Penny agreeing they see each other like brother and sister, which REALLY puts the ice on any possibility of a romantic spark.

In the meantime, they have Leonard and Amy be as unthreatened as they can possibly be. And also show that Leonard is still holding a torch for Penny, with a touch of insecurity, with every breath he takes. While Amy can solve a puzzle room, shut down a zombie like a bad ass, and not give one solid f*ck about Sheldon and Penny doing this experiment together because she is awesome.

My guess is that this episode was in reaction to two things. 1) The article already mentioned in this thread that's been going around Facebook about how anyone can fall in love by asking intimate questions and staring into each other's eyes for 4 minutes. (Total absurdity.) and 2) The woman who was tweeting Bill awhile ago about "is Shamy canon?" and completely went off the handle about how rude he was when he said that Lenny's engagement should have ended the Shenny speculation. Not to mention he's been tweeted other Shenny pressure despite him repeatedly saying that the relationship is not going to happen and he's annoyed as hell by the Shenny stuff he considers borderline harassment.

I've seen what I THOUGHT was some brutal mocking of the idea of Shenny - the laundry room scene from last season's Christmas episode was completely over-the-top demonstration of how gross they think that Shenny as a couple is - but apparently that didn't work so now they are going to go even further and spell it out in no uncertain terms: Sheldon and Penny are not going to fall in love, not even in a lab or any scientific experiment, and that the relationship between them is one of friendship only, and so platonic they feel like brother and sister. It's like....they are so sick of people beating the Shenny dead horse they have decided to build the horse a funeral pyre, dose it with gasoline, and set it on fire. And then gather around with long sticks and toast marshmellows on it. And then dance around it, drinking copious bottles of wine, and then put the fire out by taking a long, drunk piss on it.

That's how definite the entire business is. Penny promises Sheldon not to tell anyone about his birthday, understands his fear of surprises, and immediately sends out texts arranging a surprise party. How loving and considerate and discrete of her! And Sheldon gets through the ordeal of this experiment and they agree they are not in love, but his and most important concern (himself and his own desires) is still on his mind: so where is his ride to Gary Con and where are his tee shirts? And Penny drowns her desire to bitch slap him in another big glass of wine.

Threatening? I hardly think so.

Thank you Lio, your essay made me feel better. I still think the title was emotionally manipulating, people of all ships heard it and a hope got sparked. All the couples have an intimacy issue we would like to see resolved. The only pairing most people were not clamoring for more intimacy was Shenny

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Honestly, I am not convinced in what you reported that they drove a giant nail in the coffin.  I think there is still plenty of wiggle room for Shenny fans to be frank.  It sounds to me like the producers refuse to completely make it black and white.  They left plenty of innuendo in there that could be construed or even turned around way down they road if they get desperate to bring them back into a possibility.   I am more creeped out after reading the report than I was before to be honest.   

 

I guess I would have preferred to see far more inclusion of their SOs in their conversation.  I agree with Michy that they missed out on a great opportunity to really show that these couples are the right couples and that both Sheldon and Penny's fears transform into epiphanies instead..where both realize how perfectly matched they already are with their SOs.   But instead there was a lot of innuendo that could be left for open interpretation on whether or not Shenny's will be totally discouraged.   Not sure about that.

Star that is what bothers me too, Penny and Sheldon didn't mention Leonard and Amy in their answers unless asked. This episode just makes me wonder more why Leonard and Penny are even engaged, this season, the Prom episode is the only time she has shown any real love for him and they couldn't even cap that off with a kiss. The Shenny's are going to love this episode, because it creates Lenny doubt, I can see the fan fiction now and the avatars of Penny and Sheldon staring at each other, obviously in love. WORST EPISODE EVER.

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Well it hasent aired yet haha. Sounds funny. Leonard and Amy plot sounds funny. Imo finding angst in joy in Lenny or any characters is not a true fan. Imo a true fan is someone who loves the show and all its characters. But thats just me. The whole point of Shenny is its ridiculous. The fact anyone ever shipped them from 2007. Despite the contrary showing otherwise lol bewilders me. I wouldent go as far and say Lenny shouldent be engaged. But Penny needs to stop treating Leonard like its Season One. Girl your getting older. One day you wont have your looks to fall back on. Stop taking Leonard for granted. The experiment was absurd lol. I mean typical Plashenny as I like To call it. Penny finds Sheldon curious enough. But as time passes. Sheldons arrogance puts her off. And she becomes disintetrested. Writers diddnt need to do this, is just tactless. Def not for ratings. Bothers me she can be intimate with Sheldon of all ppl. But not the susposed love of her life.

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Lio's assessment is spot on. I think at times people forget that the person Sheldon cares most about is himself.

And Amy.

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Why is it so important that Shennies get their comeuppance? Is an inconceivable, incredibly unlikely event such a threat to others' happiness? I'm genuinely perplexed by the level of angst toward the Shenny concept, maybe because I wasn't around during the height of Shenny expectations.

ETA - Mislav, Chrismo isn't saying Sheldon doesn't care about others, ( I think) he said MOST. Sheldon is Number 1 in his own mind , then Amy or Leonard ( it's hard for me personally to rank those two still)

Edited by Itwasdestined
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Star that is what bothers me too, Penny and Sheldon didn't mention Leonard and Amy in their answers unless asked. This episode just makes me wonder more why Leonard and Penny are even engaged, this season, the Prom episode is the only time she has shown any real love for him and they couldn't even cap that off with a kiss. The Shenny's are going to love this episode, because it creates Lenny doubt, I can see the fan fiction now and the avatars of Penny and Sheldon staring at each other, obviously in love. WORST EPISODE EVER.

i'm not sure how you can get worst episode ever from a taping report. Also the experiment was between Penny and Sheldon and it didn't involve Leonard and Amy. I think Lio pretty well discussed the Shenny "death " in her comments.. Even when asked Penny was at the beach with Leonard while Sheldon had Amy dead. I can see Shamy fans not liking that. In regards to the avatars and the fan fiction IMO that like me worrying about what my neighbor down the block had for breakfast. Who cares

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Not the fans its the idea. Im with your iwd its odd. Something so polarizing that technically never existed. For me im perplexed as I dont kno how it began and it never occured to me ever. I mean first two seasons were so Lenny dominant. I guess I was like okay cute show Penny is madly in love with Leonard but wont admit it. By the time I went on the internet I was shocked at how many ppl shipped Sheldon and Penny. So it has always been a knee jerk reaction for me anyway.

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at this point if he had to make a choice it wouldn't be Amy

Sheldon cares about Amy? When its conveinient. But once again he showed his absolute concedence and arrogance. Fortunately Amy did not hear. I know theirs a lot of Shamy shippers here. But hell Amy deserves a heck of a lot more imo.

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i'm not sure how you can get worst episode ever from a taping report. Also the experiment was between Penny and Sheldon and it didn't involve Leonard and Amy. I think Lio pretty well discussed the Shenny "death " in her comments.. Even when asked Penny was at the beach with Leonard while Sheldon had Amy dead. I can see Shamy fans not liking that. In regards to the avatars and the fan fiction IMO that like me worrying about what my neighbor down the block had for breakfast. Who cares

Worst episode ever was a joke to tone down what I said, but I dont think this is an episode i will enjoy, not because of the Shenny crap, but because of Penny again not seeming to act like Leonard is the love of her life. The writers seem to be unable to handle them as an engaged couple so again I ask why are they even engaged. I really want Alex to come back, sorry I do. I want to see a girl that really wants Leonard, because I don't see it in season 8 Penny.

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Like I said Lenny have really broken up but the writers forgot to tell us heh. I dont know why Penny is so distant with Leonard this season. Only been a few times she's expressed any real intimacy or affection. Is she burnt out? Is she sick of seeing Leonard every day lol I dont kno. Maybe its the writers. I don't kno. But you shouldent need Alex to come back. She should just instinctively love Leonard. Feels like she got to comfortable. Like Leonard well never leave me. So shes stopped trying.

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I so agree with your comments.  This sounds such a funny episode and I always enjoy scenes with Sheldon and Penny.  From day one I noticed the chemistry between them (in their acting) and I am not usually a person who would notice something like that.  To be honest, I don't see the same chemistry between Sheldon and Amy though, of course, I appreciate there are lots who do.

 

I have never seen 'Shenny's' write anything about other shippers on this forum so why do it to them? There is no point being mean unless you are afraid of what could have been if the writers had chosen a different route.

 

Most of the time I just enjoy each episode, laugh a lot and, occasionally idly wonder why something was written that way.

 

(This was supposed to quote a comment Chrismo made on P427 (for me) but it wouldn't quote.)

Edited by Stargazer

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I agree that Sheldon and Penny have great comedic chemistry, but that's because of Jim and Kaley's great acting abilities. Although, I think it was better in the earlier seasons. I just don't get any romantic chemistry from those two. For me, that's why I cannot relate to Shennies that feel they could be a romantic couple, great friends yes, but romantic no. I have watched seasons 1-3 so many times to figure it out, but I just don't see it. Everyone is entitled to ship whomever, I'm sure there are Amy/Leonard shippers...somewhere. :shy:

 

Although this episode may not be my favorite this season as nothing beats, the Prom Equivalency, I am sure it won't be the worst.

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As far as the Shenny part of the episode that's worrying people, let me try to break this down:

Penny is simply interested in this experiment in order to be able to ask Sheldon personal questions. She finds him curious, and she doesn't often get to confront him with personal questions, such as the "Are you ever going to sleep with Amy" bit. Penny loves gossip. Penny loves knowing sordid details and intimate things about the people around her; she's a people person. So the opportunity to weasel some personal information out of Sheldon is interesting to her, and she wants to do it. But only to get him to confess some secrets to her; to satisfy some personal curiosity, not because she believes she'll fall in love with him.

Sheldon also doesn't believe he'd fall in love with her. But, the entire line asking her about "if she falls in love with him, will she drive him to Gary Con" does two things at the same time: it shows that Sheldon is both as delusionally arrogant as ever, and as incredibly selfish as ever. The same man who also thinks he's the whimsical elf every turns to for a good time, the man around whom the entire group friendship is formed, whom everyone loves and admires - so arrogant at times he has little grip on the reality of how people see him, he thinks that it's possible Penny will fall in love with him. And how would he respond to her love? By using her, of course. Using her to drive him across country to some con she would never want to go to, because there's a strong aspect to Sheldon that has no problem using people's love for him to get what he wants. Whether it's cookies or toys or bobblehead dolls. So his immediate thought - which is so loving and attractive - is that if the experiment works it means he can get a ride. Penny, who is obviously rolling her eyes at how selfish and arrogant Sheldon is being - and is smart enough NOT to find selfishness and arrogance all that attractive - uses sarcasm she knows he won't understand and promises to drive him and buy him as many stupid tee-shirts as he wants.

And Sheldon's response of, "let's do this, babe," is about him getting ready to fake it to get something he really wants because suddenly he's hooked on the idea of getting that ride and those shirts. I think that the writers are making a pretty obvious statement here to reiterate all the things we know about Sheldon: he'll do anything to get his way, he's selfish, he's arrogant, and he doesn't pick up on sarcasm whatsoever. Penny wasn't being serious with her promise, but Sheldon didn't get that and so suddenly this carrot of teeshirts and a con - things he loves - are dangled in front of him, and so he prepares himself to go into this situation and FAKE IT (since when would Sheldon ever call someone "babe" in all seriousness? You know he just picked that word because he's heard the lunkhead types use it for their women, and so he adopts it) to get that carrot. It's completely fake, and that's part of what's so funny about it. Sheldon, our unromantic, alien robot-boy, trying to imitate a lunkhead surfer dude's attitude and language, which we know on him is totally fake and out-of-character, and that he's only adopting in order to get a teeshirt and a ride.)

And then they go through the questions, and the stare down, which neither of them can get through to the others satisfaction or real interest. But Penny does learn that Sheldon is not as toweringly confident as she thought, and Sheldon learns.....well, I'm not sure Sheldon learns all that much, at least not much that he cares about. But they put that stare in there just to bait anyone who still is holding a Shenny torch, and they wait a sweet and juicy beat, and then the writers kill it. And then they heap on the part about Sheldon and Penny agreeing they see each other like brother and sister, which REALLY puts the ice on any possibility of a romantic spark.

In the meantime, they have Leonard and Amy be as unthreatened as they can possibly be. And also show that Leonard is still holding a torch for Penny, with a touch of insecurity, with every breath he takes. While Amy can solve a puzzle room, shut down a zombie like a bad ass, and not give one solid f*ck about Sheldon and Penny doing this experiment together because she is awesome.

My guess is that this episode was in reaction to two things. 1) The article already mentioned in this thread that's been going around Facebook about how anyone can fall in love by asking intimate questions and staring into each other's eyes for 4 minutes. (Total absurdity.) and 2) The woman who was tweeting Bill awhile ago about "is Shamy canon?" and completely went off the handle about how rude he was when he said that Lenny's engagement should have ended the Shenny speculation. Not to mention he's been tweeted other Shenny pressure despite him repeatedly saying that the relationship is not going to happen and he's annoyed as hell by the Shenny stuff he considers borderline harassment.

I've seen what I THOUGHT was some brutal mocking of the idea of Shenny - the laundry room scene from last season's Christmas episode was completely over-the-top demonstration of how gross they think that Shenny as a couple is - but apparently that didn't work so now they are going to go even further and spell it out in no uncertain terms: Sheldon and Penny are not going to fall in love, not even in a lab or any scientific experiment, and that the relationship between them is one of friendship only, and so platonic they feel like brother and sister. It's like....they are so sick of people beating the Shenny dead horse they have decided to build the horse a funeral pyre, dose it with gasoline, and set it on fire. And then gather around with long sticks and toast marshmellows on it. And then dance around it, drinking copious bottles of wine, and then put the fire out by taking a long, drunk piss on it.

That's how definite the entire business is. Penny promises Sheldon not to tell anyone about his birthday, understands his fear of surprises, and immediately sends out texts arranging a surprise party. How loving and considerate and discrete of her! And Sheldon gets through the ordeal of this experiment and they agree they are not in love, but his and most important concern (himself and his own desires) is still on his mind: so where is his ride to Gary Con and where are his tee shirts? And Penny drowns her desire to bitch slap him in another big glass of wine.

Threatening? I hardly think so.

Thank you so much Lionne!! I needed to read this to calm my nerves and stomach. I feel much better now. (And , no, I'm not being sarcastic).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Tbh this Shenny sibling plot. Is no different to any of their other scenes. Its Sheldon Penny would laugh at The idea I mean its Sheldon lol. No point in the series was Penny gonna date anyone other then Leonard. That was established pretty early on. Shenny are funny. Thats it.

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I agree that Sheldon and Penny have great comedic chemistry, but that's because of Jim and Kaley's great acting abilities. Although, I think it was better in the earlier seasons. I just don't get any romantic chemistry from those two. For me, that's why I cannot relate to Shennies that feel they could be a romantic couple, great friends yes, but romantic no. I have watched seasons 1-3 so many times to figure it out, but I just don't see it. Everyone is entitled to ship whomever, I'm sure there are Amy/Leonard shippers...somewhere. :shy:

Although this episode may not be my favorite this season as nothing beats, the Prom Equivalency, I am sure it won't be the worst.

I can't relate to romantic Shenny either ( but love their "frienemy" status) but that doesn't make me feel threatened by the concept like I feel some are. That's what I don't get.

And nothing wrong with the concept of worst episode either. It's just at the other end of a spectrum to best. My "worst" subject when I graduated was Chemistry but I still got an A. It's just the other subjects were better! when you rank things something has to be the worst - "least favourite" just sounds better but means the same! It doesn't have to be a negative.

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I agree, for the most part, with Lio's assessment if the episode, apart from the idea that Sheldon's only motivation was the con and the shirts. I think that in many ways he's just like Amy, imagining that people might not be able to keep from falling love with him under the right circumstances (Amy with her pelvis, etc., making Leonard fall in love with her) and so he assumes that Penny will fall in love with him, which will bring him a reward--not of her love, but of a ride to a con that apparently no one else is willing to take him to.

I think that Sheldon takes it seriously only to the extent that he would any kind of experiment. And his answers do reflect a certain kind of selfishness, as do Penny's answers. I think the reason their SOs aren't foremost in their minds in their answers is that A) it's funnier to have them amend their answers, and B ), the test wouldn't work if the participants are already in a relationship and only thinking of them. Theoretically, you'd be a single person answering questions about yourself, not about a current SO.

And Penny is obviously just playing along. They do have a moment where each of them opens up a bit and answers sincerely, but I think it's more about giving us a little insight into each of them, not about any romance between them.

And I think the "date" trappings are much like the way they use the exaggeration of L/P as Sheldon's parents, or Sheldon making puppy sounds on the stairwell, or even the play on words when Sheldon was massaging his shoulder and using words that sounded like he and Amy were fondling each other. The words are funny because they make an innocent moment sound like something else, but it obviously doesn't mean what it seems--L/P are not Sheldon's parents, Sheldon is not a puppy, Sheldon and Amy weren't having sex, or even thinking sexually, during the shoulder massage scene.

It all sounds very funny to me.

Edited by phantagrae
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Wow, this really reminds me of the forum that was dedicated to the show friends and there was a thread between Joey/Ross/Rachel and how all the posts and each and every page were very in dept and super long.

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