S8 Discussion Thread

[Tensor]

Amy's comment is the truth of what she feels, but Leonard's comment is the truth of the situation.

It's the truth of who knew who longer, that's it. That is not the truth of the entire situation. The situation also includes how much time Sheldon and Amy have spent alone, how well their relationship is progressing. How well they are bonding, etc. Leonard's comment is just part of the situation. For a couple who have been together for four years and have been serious for three, that extra amount of time Sheldon's known Penny shouldn't have any effect. According to you, they have had all those "other" conversations and while they may not spend every waking moment together, they have spent more time alone together. Just because he's know Penny longer, doesn't mean he's spent as much time alone with her. That is also part of the truth of the situation. You simply choose to focus on a different part of the entire situation. Nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't make your claim to being objective true.

 

Some things are open to interpretation, other things are objectively true.  I do try to find the objective truth,

And others don't?

 

which means it's more likely to be the truth of the intention of the writers

That's an awfully arrogant claim. Do you really believe that your objective truth somehow trumps anyone else's idea of the objective truth?

 

than what someone thinks if they're interpreting things through skewed lenses.

And your thoughts on this matter have no skewed lenses to look through? Hint:Everybody, including you, has filters that color their thoughts.

 

I'm not saying I'm the only one who knows the truth, but I am saying that it seems to me that objectively--not coloring it toward anyone's ship, or extreme interpretation of character or whatever--it seems like the most true thing.

"It seems to you" is the operative phrase. Whose objectivity are your referring to, your's? Are we to assume that you are claiming the ability to be more objective than anyone else? That's what it seems like you're saying. And you also color it though a ship, in your case Shamy. Mine is colored through Lenny. Others can be colored through other things, seasons 1-3 etc.

[djsurrey]

Like Penny and Sheldon I think we are all very happy we don't have to live in each other's heads.

[tmp]

There's a new episode tonight, and I have a stoopy class from 5:30 to 8:30.  I'm taking this one, not teaching it, so I have no control over what time it lets out.  Bummer!  The DVR had just better work or I'm gonna be one grumpy lady around 9:15 when I get home.

[Thyanic]

I'm new in this forum and I really enjoy to read all these opinions about the show especially about the new taping report, thank you!!

I think this could be an (I don't know how to say.. "idea" "experiment" or whatever) from the writers in order to gain more viewers, We all know that there's a lot of people who loves Penny and Sheldon together like a couple (in a romantic way), but I'm worried about the idea that if this episode works we will continue watching this kind of "intimacy activities" between Sheldon and Penny, just to "prove they're not in love" or just "for experimentation". I wrote yesterday.. What's next?? Kissing, having sex, living together... let's do this, babe.. JUST FOR EXPERIMENTATION!!

 

I really don't want to see all these cr**p blessed by Amy and Leonard just to prove how confident are about their partners. I think they deserve better!!

 

Yes, I know this is a comedy not a soap opera, but again JMO..!

[Tensor]

I am not going to argue which opinion is the right one, but I would like to point out that only because Amy thinks something, doesn't mean that it is true.

Doesn't mean it's false either, interpretation.

 

Also, lots of things changed since that episode. And I don't think that writers are trying to show that Sheldon and Penny have a stronger bond, just that they are closer than it may seem.

Another valid interpretation that is different from both of ours. I never denied there were other intperetations, just asking why phanta's seems to think hers was the only valid one.

[fitzsimmons]

Again. Please try to understand that we can be unhappy with the storyline for reasons other than the fact that it worries us about the stability of our couples. We may know that Lenny and Shamy are solid going forward and still be unhappy with Sheldon and Penny interaction. Believe it or not, those two things can happen simultaneously and are not mutually exclusive.

[phantagrae]

It's the truth of who knew who longer, that's it. That is not the truth of the entire situation. The situation also includes how much time Sheldon and Amy have spent alone, how well their relationship is progressing. How well they are bonding, etc. Leonard's comment is just part of the situation. For a couple who have been together for four years and have been serious for three, that extra amount of time Sheldon's known Penny shouldn't have any effect. According to you, they have had all those "other" conversations and while they may not spend every waking moment together, they have spent more time alone together. Just because he's know Penny longer, doesn't mean he's spent as much time alone with her. That is also part of the truth of the situation. You simply choose to focus on a different part of the entire situation. Nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't make your claim to being objective true.

 

And others don't?

 

That's an awfully arrogant claim. Do you really believe that your objective truth somehow trumps anyone else's idea of the objective truth?

 

And your thoughts on this matter have no skewed lenses to look through? Hint:Everybody, including you, has filters that color their thoughts.

 

"It seems to you" is the operative phrase. Whose objectivity are your referring to, your's? Are we to assume that you are claiming the ability to be more objective than anyone else? That's what it seems like you're saying. And you also color it though a ship, in your case Shamy. Mine is colored through Lenny. Others can be colored through other things, seasons 1-3 etc.

 

I'm not trying to be arrogant, but are you trying to say that there's no such thing as truth--as the writers are telling it--and that I might not have actually come across it?  I may not be right all the time--I freely admit that--but I'm also not wrong all the time, either.

 

Yes, we all have filters, and I do, too, but I also strive to see it from the writers' point of view, rather than as a bleeding Shamy or Lenny.  You know that there are a lot of posts made here using "facts" not in evidence, because people want to claim something as truth when it's not--that includes Shamys and Lennys, and everyone in between.

 

I think you're making a lot of assumptions in that scene between Amy and Leonard--first you assume you know how much time Sheldon and Amy spend together (first you say "every waking moment", then you backtrack, but still assume they spend more time together than we necessarily know, especially at that point), and you think that they should be sharing various things that we don't know about.  What we do know is that Sheldon's time with Amy has not invalidated or negated any time with Penny, and that his relationship with Penny is ongoing.  He may see even more of her than he does Amy simply because Amy doesn't live across the hall or come over every night.

 

We know that Penny comes over for dinner more often than Amy does and she has since day 1.  Amy may come over for dinner more often now, but the whole gang doesn't get together every night.  Except for the time that Leonard was dating Priya and Penny had to make herself scarce, Penny comes over a lot for a lot of different things.  While we have not seen every conversation between either Sheldon and Amy or Sheldon and Penny, we know from references they make that such things have occured.

 

No matter how long Sheldon knows Amy, he will have known Penny longer because his relationship with Penny is ongoing. So if he's known Amy for 5 years now, he's still known Penny for 8 years, and for part of that time, he and Amy were friends, but they weren't bf/gf.  While he's known Penny longer, he's also had a different relationship with her than he has had with Amy, and it will always be that way.

 

So Leonard's statement is still the truth that the writers intended it to be.  I don't really see that it's open to interpretation.  People may quibble about the nuances of how that colors Amy's perception of their relationship, but it doesn't change that objective truth.

 

And I think that a lot of times some people aren't as interested in the objective truth because they're not trying to be objective.  They get caught up in their own agenda--Sheldon is an jerk, therefore anything he says is stupid and hateful, for instance--and therefore they color everything through that agenda.  This happened with Itchy Brain.  Whether or not Sheldon's test, or whatever you want to call it, was mean, Leonard took it on of his own accord.  So was Sheldon being horrible to Leonard or did Leonard eventually do it to himself?  There was a lot of argument that Sheldon was cruel in not letting Leonard off the hook, but we also saw that Leonard was not willing to quit or give in, or even give himself a break.  When he first put the sweater on, he thought he could easily prove Sheldon wrong or show him up or whatever.

And when he first found out the store had closed, did he quit?  No.  And when Penny told him to take it off, did he?  No.

While Sheldon had him going, Leonard perpetuated it himself.

 

So, if you're totally pro-Sheldon, maybe you say he was right to teach Leonard a lesson.

If  you're totally pro-Leonard, maybe you say that poor Leonard was a victim of Sheldon's cruelty.

 

I think the truth is more in the middle, as I explained above.  Sheldon tried to explain why situations like that bothered him.  Leonard mocked him.  Sheldon made his proposition.  Leonard agreed to it, and then wouldn't give up, no matter how far it went.

 

I'm not saying that I'm the only one who knows objective truth, but I actually believe that it exists, which you don't seem to believe.

But I am saying that apparently I'm more willing to be objective about my "ship", since although I prefer Shamy and Sheldon, I also try not to interpret everything from that angle.

 

If you admit that you look at things from a Lenny perspective, then how can you talk about objective truth?  While I am a Shamy fan, I also try not to overinterpret individual lines or gestures or even where Jim's eyes are looking in a given scene just to try to squeeze some kind of romance or sexuality out of a scene.  To me, such moments are obvious because the writers want them to be obvious, and when they're not there, they're not there.

 

While you may not think I'm objective, I daresay, from some posts I've read, I think I can be more objective about my own ship than you can about yours.  You may think I'm arrogant, but that doesn't mean I'm not telling the truth.

[tallin]

I really think only way to interpret this  (I know arrogant),is that it was Amy's view on the matter. However she came to this conclusion, it doesn't mean it's mirroring actual state between these two. It's one side comment. If Sheldon made this statement too, then It would make it true, this way, I don't see anything more in it, than Amy's feeling. 

[phantagrae]

Doesn't mean it's false either, interpretation.

 

Another valid interpretation that is different from both of ours. I never denied there were other intperetations, just asking why phanta's seems to think hers was the only valid one.

 

Sometimes it is false, though.  Just like Penny's observation about girls playing D&D.  That was her perspective on the matter, but she was clearly wrong because a lot of girls do play D&D (when I played, we were 4 girls and 2 guys, and the girls started it.)

So Prady got some angry tweets about it and had to point out that Penny was speaking only from her own perspective and that doesn't mean it was the truth.

 

So any one of the characters can say something but that doesn't make it the truth.  To me, finding the truth in a scene or episode is kind of like reading comprehension.  While different people may feel differently about a passage in a book, that doesn't mean that the author didn't have a specific meaning in mind when he wrote it.

The author's intent, in this case, is the objective truth of the passage.

[hokie3457]

An author's truth is always different from every interpretation. No one can know another's truth, no matter how close they think they are. Just as you as a musician phanta can never find the true musical expression a composer had in mind when he put the notes to the page. A conductor, an arranger and yes even musicians all have an influence on that "truth" just as directors and actors influence a teleplay.

Sent from my iPhone using

Tapatalk

[denajeanx]

An author's truth is always different from every interpretation. No one can know another's truth, no matter how close they think they are. Just as you as a musician phanta can never find the true musical expression a composer had in mind when he put the notes to the page. A conductor, an arranger and yes even musicians all have an influence on that "truth" just as directors and actors influence a teleplay.

Sent from my iPhone using

Tapatalk

 

I find this post oddly beautiful.

[Tensor]

Yes, we all have filters, and I do, too, but I also strive to see it from the writers' point of view, rather than as a bleeding Shamy or Lenny.

So there isn't evidently any purpose to state my opinion. I'll bow to your superior ability to separate things out.

 

I think you're making a lot of assumptions in that scene between Amy and Leonard--first you assume you know how much time Sheldon and Amy spend together (first you say "every waking moment", then you backtrack, but still assume they spend more time together than we necessarily know,

Mea Culpa, you're right, I'm evidently quite bad at assumptions and you're the objective one. Except you evidently assumed I said "every waking moment". Completely missing the objective fact that it was Stardustmelody that made that statement of "Ever waking moment". Remember? You quoted and bolded it. I was simply qualifying the statement as, like you, I don't think they spent every waking minute together.

 

If you admit that you look at things from a Lenny perspective, then how can you talk about objective truth?  While I am a Shamy fan, I also try not to overinterpret individual lines or gestures or even where Jim's eyes are looking in a given scene just to try to squeeze some kind of romance or sexuality out of a scene.  To me, such moments are obvious because the writers want them to be obvious, and when they're not there, they're not there.

Objective fact: I said Lenny colors my view, and I said that Shamy colors your view, not that I look at things from their perspective. But, I bow to your thinking that you are capable of being so much more objective.

 

While you may not think I'm objective, I daresay, from some posts I've read, I think I can be more objective about my own ship than you can about yours.

I like how you ASSUME that I am somehow incapable of being objective at any time. But, since you are the objective one, I must be wrong, Mea Culpa.

 

You may think I'm arrogant, but that doesn't mean I'm not telling the truth.

I never said you weren't telling the truth, as you see it. What I feel is arrogant is your continued comments indicating you believe that somehow you are more objective, have no filters, and that your view is the only correct one. But since, according to you, I simply cannot be trusted to be objective, I'll simply bow to your evidently so much greater ability than anyone else has to see the objective truth and will withdraw.

[phantagrae]

An author's truth is always different from every interpretation. No one can know another's truth, no matter how close they think they are. Just as you as a musician phanta can never find the true musical expression a composer had in mind when he put the notes to the page. A conductor, an arranger and yes even musicians all have an influence on that "truth" just as directors and actors influence a teleplay.

Sent from my iPhone using

Tapatalk

 

Music is different, though, because it has no words.  Words can, and often do, have specific truths that the writer intends.

 

And even in music, the reason composers started doing things like putting in specific dynamic and tempo markings, etc., is to get the musicians to do specifically what they wanted them to do.

There have always been "fads" of interpretation, but the current trend is generally to get back to the "ur-text"--the earliest, most authentic version of the score that can be found, before various conductors and editors started messing them up.

 

One big example is the opening of Beethoven 5.  At some point it became popular to play the opening statements of the famous, "da-da-da DAH" phrases more and more bombastically.  Once upon a time some conductor decided that it would be more dramatic or something.  Other people heard that version and said, "Oh, yeah, that's the way HE does it, so it must be right!", but if you look at the score and the actual markings, there's nothing to suggest such an interpretation.

The current trend is to get back to the actual ink and play it the way it says, which is in tempo after the fermata, not drawn out and bombastic.

 

So, yeah, you play the ink.  The ink is truth.  There may be certain subtleties of style, but you start with the ink.

 

In the case of the show, the script is the ink.  The words and the way they are spoken are the truth of what the authors intend, and I think that the nuances and changes the writers and director make as they're taping is a honing of that truth.

So there isn't evidently any purpose to state my opinion. I'll bow to your superior ability to separate things out.

 

Mea Culpa, you're right, I'm evidently quite bad at assumptions and you're the objective one. Except you evidently assumed I said "every waking moment". Completely missing the objective fact that it was Stardustmelody that made that statement of "Ever waking moment". Remember? You quoted and bolded it. I was simply qualifying the statement as, like you, I don't think they spent every waking minute together.

 

Objective fact: I said Lenny colors my view, and I said that Shamy colors your view, not that I look at things from their perspective. But, I bow to your thinking that you are capable of being so much more objective.

 

I like how you ASSUME that I am somehow incapable of being objective at any time. But, since you are the objective one, I must be wrong, Mea Culpa.

 

I never said you weren't telling the truth, as you see it. What I feel is arrogant is your continued comments indicating you believe that somehow you are more objective, have no filters, and that your view is the only correct one. But since, according to you, I simply cannot be trusted to be objective, I'll simply bow to your evidently so much greater ability than anyone else has to see the objective truth and will withdraw.

 

I love how you get all snotty and sarcastic when you're mad.  Not objective.

[hokie3457]

But the music are the words. I'm not a professional musician, but I cannot disagree with you more. (I'm done. You win. Bye!)

Sent from my iPhone using

Tapatalk

[Etienne]

I really think only way to interpret this  (I know arrogant),is that it was Amy's view on the matter. However she came to this conclusion, it doesn't mean it's mirroring actual state between these two. It's one side comment. If Sheldon made this statement too, then It would make it true, this way, I don't see anything more in it, than Amy's feeling. 

 

In the immortal words of Sheldon L. Cooper, "Trust me, you're happy."

[phantagrae]

But the music are the words. I'm not a professional musician, but I cannot disagree with you more. (I'm done. You win. Bye!)

Sent from my iPhone using

Tapatalk

 

I am a professional musician, though.  There is a sort of communication that most musicians try to do--more than just playing all the right notes at the right time like a machine, and yes, what the listener thinks or feels is up to them, but again, notes are not words.

 

If I play a certain passage a certain way, you might feel it's a sad sort of song, full of longing and loneliness, while another listener might think it's a song of beautiful peaceful solitude.

 

Unless it's "program music", which is intended to depict certain things--a storm, a sunrise, etc.--the interpretation doesn't matter.

 

But words in a novel or play are chosen specifically to mean specific things.  A specific passage may be open to interpretation, but overall the writer intends to evoke certain things by choosing this word instead of that one.  The author's intention may indeed be to leave the ultimate interpretation up to the reader (or viewer), but in the case of the stuff we've been talking about, that's not necessarily the case.

 

With TBBT, the words or phrases they choose are generally meant to communicate certain things--to set up a punchline, just to be funny, or to communicate the status of a relationship, etc.

 

In that case, some nuances may be left up for grabs, and some of it is not meant to be taken seriously (Sheldon and the peso up his nose), but some of it is meant to be truth ("I love you, too").

[bigbangsheldon]

WHEN AN ONLINE BULLY DESTROYS LEONARD AND SHELDON’S PHYSICS PAPER, THE GUYS BAND TOGETHER TO TAKE HIM DOWN, ON “THE BIG BANG THEORY,” THURSDAY, FEB. 5

 

 

“The Troll Manifestation” – After Leonard and Sheldon co-publish a physics paper, they must defend themselves against criticism from an online bully. Also, girls’ night finds Penny, Amy and Bernadette confronting embarrassing moments from their past, on THE BIG BANG THEORY, Thursday, Feb. 5 (8:00-8:31, ET/PT), on the CBS Television Network.   

 

 

http://www.cbspressexpress.com/cbs-entertainment/releases/view?id=41835

 

 

oh so not airing in taping order...

[Kasey]

 

 

But words in a novel or play are chosen specifically to mean specific things.  A specific passage may be open to interpretation, but overall the writer intends to evoke certain things by choosing this word instead of that one.  The author's intention may indeed be to leave the ultimate interpretation up to the reader (or viewer), but in the case of the stuff we've been talking about, that's not necessarily the case.

 

 

 I would suggest that unless one was to sit down personally with the writer of the novel, play or TV show and ask them specifically what they were trying to convey, the reader or viewer will not know exactly.  Even with TBBT, we don't ALWAYS know what things mean exactly.  Or so I thought...

[Nogravitasatall]

Can Sheldon and Amy be "bang buddies" in s8? They have been retracing the school days he missed because of his accelerated program. Will he get to the debauched (lol) college stage this year or next year or will he roll up to the altar pristine?

And has Penny done enough yet to "atone" for her past? I really think they are restructuring her performance to leave the truth of her past in the past. I wonder if it's globalisation and need to soft pedal Western liberal behaviour in emerging markets.

[phantagrae]

 I would suggest that unless one was to sit down personally with the writer of the novel, play or TV show and ask them specifically what they were trying to convey, the reader or viewer will not know exactly.  Even with TBBT, we don't ALWAYS know what things mean exactly.  Or so I thought...

 

I think that we know the truth more often that people may be willing to admit.  I don't think it's nearly as amorphous or open to interpretation as people like to think.  I don't think the writers are all that ambiguous in their intent on TBBT.

This isn't a James Joyce stream-of-consciousness novel with no punctuation.

[wowbagger]

Can Sheldon and Amy be "bang buddies" in s8? They have been retracing the school days he missed because of his accelerated program. Will he get to the debauched (lol) college stage this year or next year or will he roll up to the altar pristine?

And has Penny done enough yet to "atone" for her past? I really think they are restructuring her performance to leave the truth of her past in the past. I wonder if it's globalisation and need to soft pedal Western liberal behaviour in emerging markets.

 

Heh. I think we left 'bang buddies' behind at least one proclamation of love ago. 'Bang buddies' could very well have been a possibility for the two around Season Four (that might have been fun, actually), but once romance was on the table (for at least one of the two) a f*@kbuddy dynamic would be hard to work. Although it's an interesting idea that Sheldon and Amy are now experiencing a delayed adolescence, I still think they're a way off from lcollege (that is, late adolescent) shenanigans.

 

Penny atoning for her past? Is there something specific I've missed?

[phantagrae]

Can Sheldon and Amy be "bang buddies" in s8? They have been retracing the school days he missed because of his accelerated program. Will he get to the debauched (lol) college stage this year or next year or will he roll up to the altar pristine?

And has Penny done enough yet to "atone" for her past? I really think they are restructuring her performance to leave the truth of her past in the past. I wonder if it's globalisation and need to soft pedal Western liberal behaviour in emerging markets.

 

I was thinking about the no kissing thing in that regard a few days ago--certain countries frown on open displays, like kissing, being in bed together.  Maybe they're trying to get back on the air in China...

 

I remember my friend telling me about his days teaching in Saudi Arabia, where the censors would do things like draw a line across the hands of cartoon characters who might be holding hands, or scribble out the beer foam in others.

[Kasey]

I think that we know the truth more often that people may be willing to admit.  I don't think it's nearly as amorphous or open to interpretation as people like to think.  I don't think the writers are all that ambiguous in their intent on TBBT.

This isn't a James Joyce stream-of-consciousness novel with no punctuation.

 

The pages and pages and long posts written about people's various interpretations is not an indication that things on TBBT are that clear cut?  And I'm not talking about just things having to do with TR and other spoilers.

 

Everything is open to interpretation...

[denajeanx]

The pages and pages and long posts written about people's various interpretations is not an indication that things on TBBT are that clear cut?  And I'm not talking about just things having to do with TR and other spoilers.

 

Everything is open to interpretation...

 

Basically the only thing that needs to be said. lol

[Kasey]

Basically the only thing that needs to be said. lol

 

Sooner or later someone was going to get it down to five words or less...