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bigbangsheldon

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I don't think that one mistake can serve as a description of his whole work/genius. And Leonard admitted that Sheldon was better at Math than him.

 

Yeah, okay. Apparently, there's nothing negative that Sheldon can do that some people won't excuse, dismiss, or otherwise explain away.

Thanks to Trinabeana for clarifying something I was just about to! The article credits "Sheldon Cooper and his team" and not just Sheldon. It just doesn't name Leonard specifically. But it is not written to sound like Sheldon was alone.

 

That does shed a bit of a different light on it. Still, though, it's yet another example of Sheldon getting the spotlight while the contributions of others are lessened or eliminated entirely (even though it wasn't his fault this time). Story of TBBT's life. :)

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Thanks to Trinabeana for clarifying something I was just about to! The article credits "Sheldon Cooper and his team" and not just Sheldon. It just doesn't name Leonard specifically. But it is not written to sound like Sheldon was alone.

And about tonight's episode: yes, Amy did help Kripke with the math. Sheldon chastises her for "handing out her math to guys on street corners."

That's why I asked which math. Is it Kripke's basic string theory math, or is it the math that has to do with her end of it? I seriously doubt that Amy would be able to handle any part of the String Theory math. String theory (any post PhD level work for that matter) is so specialized that Kripke having to have Amy help him with her part, makes a lot of sense (and the phrase handing out her math sounds like this). Amy helping Kripke with his is so unrealistic as to be ludicrous. Leonard's work would involve math that Kripke handles every day.

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Bottom line for me is that it's a stinging disappointment that credit to Leonard is omitted from the article because his genius is under valued and not just by Sheldon. The honor should have been a shared honor and it wasn't. So Leonard fans are disappointed because we empathize with Leonard's disappointment.The fact that Sheldon got the full recognition really stings because we've seen Sheldon insult and belittle Leonard's talents as being so inferior to his own, on a regular basis,for a very long time. In this case, Sheldon recognized Leonard's genius and then, by a fluke, he gets the full credit. I guess there is some irony in that. I'm not really sure what it all means in the end,  but my first gut reaction without thinking anything through, was disappointment for Leonard.

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Thanks to Trinabeana for clarifying something I was just about to! The article credits "Sheldon Cooper and his team" and not just Sheldon. It just doesn't name Leonard specifically. But it is not written to sound like Sheldon was alone.

And about tonight's episode: yes, Amy did help Kripke with the math. Sheldon chastises her for "handing out her math to guys on street corners."

"Sheldon Cooper and his team" makes it sound like it was Sheldon's idea.

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I think everyone is looking for more significance in this incident than is really there.

I don't think that it's supposed to be some big roadsign about "Sheldon's growth" nor a harbinger of Leonard moving out.

Not sure why you quoted me. I happen to agree with you here. I was just pointing out that I didn't think it was growth by Sheldon, like you did. And I said nothing about him moving out.

 

It seems like everyone is splitting hairs over something that isn't going to be that big a deal a few episodes down the line.

And so? If people what to discuss these things and split hairs, they're entitled to. This is a discussion board for season eight, and this discussion is about things in season eight. If you don't like it, you aren't required to read or answer it.

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Yeah, okay. Apparently, there's nothing negative that Sheldon can do that some people won't excuse, dismiss, or otherwise explain away.

That does shed a bit of a different light on it. Still, though, it's yet another example of Sheldon getting the spotlight while the contributions of others are lessened or eliminated entirely (even though it wasn't his fault this time). Story of TBBT's life. :)

Well, I think that using one-OK, two-mistakes over the course of eight years as the proof that Sheldon is not really good mathematician is far fetched. Just my opinion. If you don't agree, please explain why? And who are "some people" that you are talking about?
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I don't get why Sheldon's behavior seems as such regression for some here honestly. It's no mystery Sheldon can't read social clues and situations, he can get better in it by apply behavior patterns from previous experiences, but in new situation, we can't except he will just know all of sudden. Amy did best she could - using situation Sheldon could relate to Leonard's feelings in, which led to his understanding and trying to comfort him/calling authors of article. I don't have problem with it, it's still Sheldon we're talking about, and I wouldn't put this situation among those in which Sheldon was way out of line. After all harm was on Leonard's side so  he should call to the authors of article and demand correction, it wasn't Sheldon who wrote this article. 

 

Still I think there could be better plot. Authors would easily mention both authors, it was just set up to create tension, and I like them better on the same side, but what do I know, maybe it can play out funny on the screen. 

 

And thank you very much Michy for taping report :)

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Well, I think that using one-OK, two-mistakes over the course of eight years as the proof that Sheldon is not really good mathematician is far fetched. Just my opinion. If you don't agree, please explain why? And who are "some people" that you are talking about?

Nobody is really saying Sheldon isn't good at math, just pointing out he's not the only person who could have done the math based on Leonard's insight.

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At least two that we know of. And, yes, better than Leonard, but wasn't it Leonard who disproved something of Sheldon's in which he made a pretty basic error?

 

He misread a table, which initially led to the discovery.  But it's not as if he added 2 and 2 and got 5.

And with Hawking, he made an arithmatic error, but again, it's not as if he suddenly had no higher math skills.

 

With both incidents, he made a mistake, but it wasn't a matter of having no higher math skills.  Leonard also had a math error that got published.

 

Again, what is the point of trying to say one is smarter than the other or one couldn't do this or that without the other?

 

Leonard went to Sheldon who "broke out the math" on the theory because Leonard recognized that Sheldon had superior math skills than himself.  There's nothing wrong with that.

Once Sheldon started breaking out the mathmatics of it, he simply went on to finish it and wrote the paper, but he didn't do it out of arrogance or ego, but simply to put the theory to paper so they could get it published before someone else came up with the idea.

 

Leonard had no problem with it and the two of them were congratulaing each other over their achievement and the praise they were getting in the positive comments--and splitting the praise equally.

 

I do think that Leonard was justifiably upset at having his name left off the article, but again, Sheldon had nothing to do with that.

 

And for what it's worth, I think that Leonard acknowledges that Sheldon has the higher IQ and is the smartest person he knows.  He also acknowledges that Sheldon is "kind of broken".

The issue over the article isn't a gamechanger for either of them, but, the way I see it, just another bump along the road like many others they've dealt with.

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Remember that "Sheldon and his team" was only in one magazine. Leonard gets credit in another one.

At the end of the episode, so not really relevant to the original article on discussion.

He misread a table, which initially led to the discovery.  But it's not as if he added 2 and 2 and got 5.

And with Hawking, he made an arithmatic error, but again, it's not as if he suddenly had no higher math skills.

 

With both incidents, he made a mistake, but it wasn't a matter of having no higher math skills.  Leonard also had a math error that got published.

 

Again, what is the point of trying to say one is smarter than the other or one couldn't do this or that without the other?

 

Leonard went to Sheldon who "broke out the math" on the theory because Leonard recognized that Sheldon had superior math skills than himself.  There's nothing wrong with that.

Once Sheldon started breaking out the mathmatics of it, he simply went on to finish it and wrote the paper, but he didn't do it out of arrogance or ego, but simply to put the theory to paper so they could get it published before someone else came up with the idea.

 

Leonard had no problem with it and the two of them were congratulaing each other over their achievement and the praise they were getting in the positive comments--and splitting the praise equally.

 

I do think that Leonard was justifiably upset at having his name left off the article, but again, Sheldon had nothing to do with that.

 

And for what it's worth, I think that Leonard acknowledges that Sheldon has the higher IQ and is the smartest person he knows.  He also acknowledges that Sheldon is "kind of broken".

The issue over the article isn't a gamechanger for either of them, but, the way I see it, just another bump along the road like many others they've dealt with.

I'm not trying to say one is smarter than the other, just that Sheldon isn't as infallible as his apologists seem to think.

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Not sure why you quoted me. I happen to agree with you here. I was just pointing out that I didn't think it was growth by Sheldon, like you did. And I said nothing about him moving out.

 

And so? If people what to discuss these things and split hairs, they're entitled to. This is a discussion board for season eight, and this discussion is about things in season eight. If you don't like it, you aren't required to read or answer it.

 

I quoted you because you were last in line, I guess, and your post seemed to also be focusing on this question of "regression" on Sheldon's part, and all that.

 

And my comment about splitting hairs is that people are using one incident and blowing it out of proportion in its significance of everything going on in S8.

 

I didn't say that people couldn't or shouldn't discuss it.  I was simply pointing out that this is an issue that probably doesn't need to get disected for this purpose.

At the end of the episode, so not really relevant to the original article on discussion.

I'm not trying to say one is smarter than the other, just that Sheldon isn't as infallible as his apologists seem to think.

 

I don't think that anyone has ever said that Sheldon is infallible.  Where do you get that from?

 

Just because some people don't see Sheldon as the root of all evil everytime that others want to turn him into the enemy of poor, downtrodden Leonard doesn't mean that anyone is saying he's infallible.

But when people want to take every word or gesture or incident and use it to insist that he's doing horrible things to Leonard or that it proves he's a horrible person, others are going to defend against that extreme view.

That's why I asked which math. Is it Kripke's basic string theory math, or is it the math that has to do with her end of it? I seriously doubt that Amy would be able to handle any part of the String Theory math. String theory (any post PhD level work for that matter) is so specialized that Kripke having to have Amy help him with her part, makes a lot of sense (and the phrase handing out her math sounds like this). Amy helping Kripke with his is so unrealistic as to be ludicrous. Leonard's work would involve math that Kripke handles every day.

 

I don't think Amy ever said she was helping Kripke work out math equations, like she was standing there writing on his whiteboard or anything.  She said that she recognized that something she was working with might have some implications that could be applied to String Theory so she mentioned it to Kripke.

He's the one who figured out how to use that information.

 

Sheldon's exaggeration of Amy "handing out her math" is simply his characterization of what he imagined she did.  She obviously wasn't going around shopping equations to the physicists at CalTech.  She simply saw the possibilities in one area and offered the suggestion to Kripke (since Sheldon was no longer working in String Theory).

 

In that scene in the Sneak Peek video, where does she say that she was doing math equations with or for Kripke?

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He misread a table, which initially led to the discovery.  But it's not as if he added 2 and 2 and got 5.

And with Hawking, he made an arithmatic error, but again, it's not as if he suddenly had no higher math skills.

 .

No, he was out by a factor of 10,000, that's a pretty big error in anyone's book

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At the end of the episode, so not really relevant to the original article on discussion.

 

Not sure why when in the episode it happens is relevant. By the end of it, one article lists Sheldon, one lists Leonard. So ultimately, the fight about Sheldon getting all the credit is moot. They both get credit. And there will be much more coverage on their theory to come from other sources, I'm sure. My point is that ultimately, one article that failed to mention them both is not going to make or break anything. People are making a way bigger deal out of this than there needs to be. 

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Interesting discussion.   First there were two articles...the first did credit Leonard, the SA one was an editorial choice to exclude Leonard, not Sheldon's choice. 

 

Second, Sheldon did say he added some of his own thinking in the "idea".   So he flushed it out and improved on the idea that yes, was Leonard's brain child but may have not gotten very far if it had not been for Sheldon not only doing the math, but thinking the idea through further and improving upon it.   So he not only did the math and write the paper, but he added "idea" of his own into the process.   It wasn't JUST Leonard's idea anymore but now it was a combination of both.

 

Third, when Sheldon understood the implication of Leonard's name not being included, not only did he try and make Leonard feel better, but he actually attempted to get it corrected with SA.   This is something that early seasons Sheldon would never have even spent time doing.  He would never have tried to make Leonard feel better, nor would he try to get the correction made.  He would have shrugged and felt that was the way the ball bounces.   

 

Fourth, Leonard wasn't even upset at first.  It wasn't until Sheldon tried to comfort Leonard, and we all know Sheldon is terrible at trying to comfort someone, that he made things not well and Leonard got upset.   So it wasn't that his name was excluded that Leonard cared about initially.   However, the explanation of what happened that again, was an SA editorial choice, not Sheldon's, is what made Leonard mad.   It made him feel less significant when it was mentioned about which of the two were considered "lead"  and how SA had followed Sheldon and not him.  So it was SA that was the issue, not Sheldon.   Yet Sheldon was the closest thing to be angry with.  

 

Fifth, Leonard of all people knows how Sheldon can be insensitive and abrupt, yet in this case he had to know Sheldon was making an attempt, even if poorly done.   So when Bernie yelled at the two men, it was warranted.   The fight was silly and not something that was in either of their hands.   

 

What was important here is that Sheldon wanted to share 50-50 (something he would NEVER have done in early seasons...he would have taken full credit).   Sheldon also tried to comfort (again, not successful, but he at least attempted it), and most important Sheldon tried to remedy the situation by calling to see if a correction could be made.  It was not his fault that the magazine chose him and remained with him after the conversation because he is the scientist they follow and he is more known in scientific circles.   

 

So yes, there is tremendous growth in Sheldon from early seasons and we all know he is always going to be work in progress because otherwise they have no premise for the show.   However, I think for people to belittle the growth is unfair.  He has grown leaps and bounds compared to early seasons.   Life isn't always fair and while Sheldon would have been content and happy to have Leonard's name along with his, it also was not Sheldon's doing that Leonard's name was excluded.   

 

And last, as Michy just said...Leonard's name appears on another article and probably any further articles Sheldon and Leonard would make sure both names appeared....so really kind of a silly discussion, yes?

Edited by stardustmelody
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I quoted you because you were last in line, I guess, and your post seemed to also be focusing on this question of "regression" on Sheldon's part, and all that.

Again, I was answering someone who said it growth on his part. Quote and correct them for bringing it up.

 

I was simply pointing out that this is an issue that probably doesn't need to get disected for this purpose.

Since you think it probably doesn't need to get disected, this sound's like you don't want people to discuss it. Again, if you don't like it, don't read and reply to anything that does direct it.

 

I don't think Amy ever said she was helping Kripke work out math equations, like she was standing there writing on his whiteboard or anything.  She said that she recognized that something she was working with might have some implications that could be applied to String Theory so she mentioned it to Kripke.

He's the one who figured out how to use that information.

I originally said exactly what you said here, that she was helping with the ideas, not the math. I was then corrected by others pointing out she was helping him with his math. How about you go back and quote and correct them now, since this is not what I said?

 

Sheldon's exaggeration of Amy "handing out her math" is simply his characterization of what he imagined she did.  She obviously wasn't going around shopping equations to the physicists at CalTech.  She simply saw the possibilities in one area and offered the suggestion to Kripke (since Sheldon was no longer working in String Theory).

In that scene in the Sneak Peek video, where does she say that she was doing math equations with or for Kripke?

Again, what I said. Could you please quit using me as an example incorrectly? How about you don't take the lazy way out and actually take the time to quote those you are correcting? Or, if you want to make statements, don't quote me, unless you are specifically answering my statements.

Fifth, Leonard of all people knows how Sheldon can be insensitive and abrupt, yet in this case he had to know Sheldon was making an attempt, even if poorly done.

Yep, it's all Leonard's fault. Sheldon is just being Sheldon, that excuses everything.

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Again, I was answering someone who said it growth on his part. Quote and correct them for bringing it up.

Since you think it probably doesn't need to get disected, this sound's like you don't want people to discuss it. Again, if you don't like it, don't read and reply to anything that does direct it.

I originally said exactly what you said here, that she was helping with the ideas, not the math. I was then corrected by others pointing out she was helping him with his math. How about you go back and quote and correct them now, since this is not what I said?

Again, what I said. Could you please quit using me as an example incorrectly? How about you don't take the lazy way out and actually take the time to quote those you are correcting? Or, if you want to make statements, don't quote me, unless you are specifically answering my statements.

Yep, it's all Leonard's fault. Sheldon is just being Sheldon, that excuses everything.

I personally think neither Sheldon or Leonard were at fault. But yes, I found Leonard's reaction strange, given the fact that he was often understanding and supportive of Sheldon for all these years, even when Sheldon was actually at fault.
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I personally think neither Sheldon or Leonard were at fault. But yes, I found Leonard's reaction strange, given the fact that he was often understanding and supportive of Sheldon for all these years, even when Sheldon was actually at fault.

 

What reaction was strange?  That Leonard was upset that Sheldon got the credit and he was part of an unnamed team?  I think that sometimes things just set one off.  Maybe Leonard's been nice and understanding and accepting for so long that he just got sick of it.  It happens....

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Nobody is really saying Sheldon isn't good at math, just pointing out he's not the only person who could have done the math based on Leonard's insight.

Well, Leonard knew that Sheldon can be hard to deal with and stubborn, even now when he had improved, yet decided to ask Sheldon to help him with the project. I think that itself is enough to at least strongly suggest that Sheldon is pretty damn good at Math. The only person able to help theoretically no, but Leonard choose him.
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But in the absence of kisses or rolling body painting, what else is there to make a big deal about?   :cool:

 

Honestly, I'm surprised more people aren't pleased with the episode. Both A and B plots were compelling, and everyone acted the hell out of their parts, particularly Simon and Melissa, but I gotta say Jim acted in a way I've never seen before. It was almost akin to 6.02 when Sheldon found out Penny might want to break up with Leonard and he was trying to talk to Leonard about it. It was a lot like that, but it was something so... unlike Sheldon. For the first act, at least. It was almost like I wasn't watching Sheldon anymore. 

 

The Leonard/Penny stuff was kind of disgustingly adorable. Penny was so comforting and nurturing of Leonard, and did everything she could to make him feel better (think how she acted when Amy and Bernadette were arguing over the boys' parking space and how Penny kept trying to interject to smooth things out - that's how she was with Leonard and Sheldon). 

 

And of course, the Howard/Bernadette/Raj stuff was super touching. Touching in all the right places, and funny when it called for it. 

 

Do people ever enjoy the eps or do we just look for anything we can complain about? Kind of a bummer.

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What reaction was strange? That Leonard was upset that Sheldon got the credit and he was part of an unnamed team? I think that sometimes things just set one off. Maybe Leonard's been nice and understanding and accepting for so long that he just got sick of it. It happens....

I think that it was strange that he ached like it was Sheldon's fault when it wasn't. Even if he got sick of "it"(?), I don't see how this particular thing would set him off, at least to that extent. Especially since he is usually rational and understanding.
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