S8 Discussion Thread

[Chrismo]

Whether or not Leonard asked Sheldon to do the math, or whether or not anyone else could have done the math, the fact is that Sheldon did the math and broke out the theory and did the paper, but waited so that they could post it together, and in the end, Leonard was happy with the results and the positive feedback.

it seems to me that he did that since his career for the last year has been a total bust. Sheldon just seized an idea he couldn't of come up with on his own. As Martin Pollard said earlier people see what they want to see.

[denajeanx]

I don't understand the big deal.

Leonard seemed fine with Sheldon writing the paper after seeing the math worked out. Whether Sheldon had permission beforehand or not is pretty irrelevant at this point, since Leonard happily submitted the paper along with Sheldon. They even clicked submit together

[Nogravitasatall]

it seems to me that he did that since his career for the last year has been a total bust. Sheldon just seized an idea he couldn't of come up with on his own. As Martin Pollard said earlier people see what they want to see.

I just want to clarify that I don't think he can help himself and he's not malicious. If he can do something, and there is a net benefit to him for doing it, he does it without spite and without regard to consequence. I imagine everything is a negotiation with him, because he doesn't perceive limits. Professionally he is probably top notch, otherwise why would he have his position. And he has had other ideas. Season one has his "lucky guess" - to quote Leonard big noting himself to Penny and there must be others that I can't recall. But ends don't necessarily justify means, particularly as asking is such a inexpensive effort, and Leonard was still grateful at the end of "Troll..". Maybe that negotiation cost is the price of his genius, and it's worth it to Leonard. But Sheldon a special case, and that needs to be noted. He gets to thrive this way because he has a supportive cohort who bear the cost. And it's a funny and unsettling problem, which is good.

I don't understand the big deal.

Leonard seemed fine with Sheldon writing the paper after seeing the math worked out. Whether Sheldon had permission beforehand or not is pretty irrelevant at this point, since Leonard happily submitted the paper along with Sheldon. They even clicked submit together

Consent after the fact. A little dubious maybe? I'm thinking it's not informed consent prior to Sheldon making use of his idea. Unless they had a pre-existing agreement. But I'm not upset about it. Curious, is all. I come here to learn. Hehe.

Edited February 22, 2015 by Nogravitasatall

[Tensor]

 

My guess is there are having a rerun on March 5 with only 9 new episodes left to air they have space them out until Season Finale in May the next new one after the Feb 26th episode is most likely on March 12th

Selection Sunday isn't until March 15th, with the first round starting on the 17th. The championship is April 6th. I think CBS has the rights again this year but I'm not positive about that.

 

Last year they ran the 18th episode on the 13th of March (12 March is the equivalent this year). They have 8.16 The Intimacy Acceleration scheduled for February 27th. If they run 8.17 The Colinization Application on March 5th, and The Leftover Thermalization on the 12th, they will have run the same number of episodes they had last year and have six left.  I'm currently seeing  a new episode on the 5th at 8 PM and Locomotion at 9 PM.  I should have the actual title in time for the Broadcast and Taping report update tomorrow night.     

This was the schedule last year(dates in parentheses are this year):

March 20(19)        No Show

March 27(20)        No Show (These two are due to the NCAA Basketball Tournament, and yes, CBS does have it. The first two weeks it will also be on TBS so not nightly TBBT then either.

April 03(02)           New

April 10(09)           New

April 17(16)           Rerun

April 24(23)           New

May 01(April 30)   New

May 08(07)           New

May 15(14)           New

 

Note even if they run new episodes on the 5th and 12th of March, there will only be one rerun after the basketball tournament.  

[Mislav]

it seems to me that he did that since his career for the last year has been a total bust. Sheldon just seized an idea he couldn't of come up with on his own. As Martin Pollard said earlier people see what they want to see.

Yes, people like you.

And if we use "people only see what they want to see" argument, we could turn anyone in a hero or a villain as the mood fits.

I just want to clarify that I don't think he can help himself and he's not malicious. If he can do something, and there is a net benefit to him for doing it, he does it without spite and without regard to consequence. I imagine everything is a negotiation with him, because he doesn't perceive limits. Professionally he is probably top notch, otherwise why would he have his position. And he has had other ideas. Season one has his "lucky guess" - to quote Leonard big noting himself to Penny and there must be others that I can't recall. But ends don't necessarily justify means, particularly as asking is such a inexpensive effort, and Leonard was still grateful at the end of "Troll..". Maybe that negotiation cost is the price of his genius, and it's worth it to Leonard. But Sheldon a special case, and that needs to be noted. He gets to thrive this way because he has a supportive cohort who bear the cost. And it's a funny and unsettling problem, which is good.

Consent after the fact. A little dubious maybe? I'm thinking it's not informed consent prior to Sheldon making use of his idea. Unless they had a pre-existing agreement. But I'm not upset about it. Curious, is all. I come here to learn. Hehe.

I am not sure what your point is. What exactly are you trying to prove? That Leonard had more credit regarding the paper? Or that Sheldon was somehow in fault? That everything isn't black and white? I am not being sarcastic, I am honestly confused. Edited February 22, 2015 by Mislav

[Chrismo]

Sheldon's career has been a bust in the last year. he has even acknowledged that himself. They even had an episode of him trying to teach. only Howard signed up for his class.

Edited February 22, 2015 by Chrismo

[Mislav]

Sheldon's career has been a bust in the last year. he has even acknowledged that himself. They even had an episode of him trying to teach. only Howard signed up for his class.

How is that a proof that he only agreed to do a paper so he would get a credit? And if he did, why would he spend entire episode apologizing to Leonard and be happy when Leonard was finally mentioned?

[Nogravitasatall]

Yes, people like you.

And if we use "people only see what they want to see" argument, we could turn anyone in a hero or a villain as the mood fits.

I am not sure what your point is. What exactly are you trying to prove? That Leonard had more credit regarding the paper? Or that Sheldon was somehow in fault? That everything isn't black and white? I am not being sarcastic, I am honestly confused.

This is like when Sheldon did his home invasion cleaning thing on Penny. Yes, she said it was clean after, but she never consented. Consent is not a trivial issue. In spite of all the mitigating factors people offer the only reason it's funny is because this is fiction. That's the only defence, to my mind. Not because of anything else intrinsic to Sheldon. But he gets defended as if he is not wrong at all. It's ok to say that he is. Leonard does this all the time. He says Sheldon is wrong, and then forgives him. And that's ok. A little tiresome, but ok.

[Mislav]

This is like when Sheldon did his home invasion cleaning thing on Penny. Yes, she said it was clean after, but she never consented. Consent is not a trivial issue. In spite of all the mitigating factors people offer the only reason it's funny is because this is fiction. That's the only defence, to my mind. Not because of anything else intrinsic to Sheldon. But he gets defended as if he is not wrong at all. It's ok to say that he is. Leonard does this all the time. He says Sheldon is wrong, and then forgives him. And that's ok. A little tiresome, but ok.

Leonard asked Sheldon to help him with the paper. He never specified to what extent. Also, we can't know for sure how much work Sheldon did. Leonard already had the idea and some equasions written. It is quite possible that, in the end, all of that was 50/50 credit.

If Leonard didn't like the paper, he could have demanded Sheldon to re do it with him involved, but he liked it and agreed for Sheldon to post it as a joined work.

The only way that could be compared to Sheldon cleaning up Penny's apartment is if Sheldon decided to go through Leonard's things out of curiosity, found the idea, wrote the paper on his own without telling anyone and published it as his own work.

[Tonstar17]

Leonard asked Sheldon to help him with the paper. He never specified to what extent. Also, we can't know for sure how much work Sheldon did. Leonard already had the idea and some equasions written. It is quite possible that, in the end, all of that was 50/50 credit.

If Leonard didn't like the paper, he could have demanded Sheldon to re do it with him involved, but he liked it and agreed for Sheldon to post it as a joined work.

The only way that could be compared to Sheldon cleaning up Penny's apartment is if Sheldon decided to go through Leonard's things out of curiosity, found the idea, wrote the paper on his own without telling anyone and published it as his own work.

Sometimes I wonder if you actually think Sheldon is a saint. No matter how much cockups and wrongs he does you still defend him. You really need to to chill and see he is human and makes mistakes just like everyone else.

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[Mislav]

Sometimes I wonder if you actually think Sheldon is a saint. No matter how much cockups and wrongs he does you still defend him. You really need to to chill and see he is human and makes mistakes just like everyone else.

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I am not defending Sheldon all the time, only when I think it is justified.

And yes, I may rarely criticize Sheldon, but I never see you criticizing Leonard or Penny either. And I rarely criticize Leonard either, not just Sheldon. Not even about the whole Priya/Allison situation (which seems to be be pretty controversial among most of the fans...)

Edited February 22, 2015 by Mislav

[gsxdoug]

Leonard asked Sheldon to help him with the paper. He never specified to what extent. Also, we can't know for sure how much work Sheldon did. Leonard already had the idea and some equasions written. It is quite possible that, in the end, all of that was 50/50 credit.

If Leonard didn't like the paper, he could have demanded Sheldon to re do it with him involved, but he liked it and agreed for Sheldon to post it as a joined work.

The only way that could be compared to Sheldon cleaning up Penny's apartment is if Sheldon decided to go through Leonard's things out of curiosity, found the idea, wrote the paper on his own without telling anyone and published it as his own work.

All he asked for was Sheldon's opinion. I have no problem with them submitting the paper jointly, but I do think some are inflating Sheldon's necessity for the paper's actualization or claiming that Leonard had no right to be upset for not getting proper credit.

[Mislav]

All he asked for was Sheldon's opinion. I have no problem with them submitting the paper jointly, but I do think some are inflating Sheldon's necessity for the paper's actualization or claiming that Leonard had no right to be upset for not getting proper credit.

I don't think that he had some particular right to be upset at Sheldon, at least not after Sheldon called the magazine to ask them about an error. Upset about not getting credit, yes-but I don't see how Sheldon would fit. He should have been mad at the publicists, or at least at them and Sheldon. His reaction was pretty OOC for me. Edited February 22, 2015 by Mislav

[gsxdoug]

If memory serves, Sheldon could've corrected the article's author from the get-go but didn't. He only called the magazine after it was clear that Leonard was upset, and even then only after Amy explained why Leonard was upset.

 

edit; I erred, Sheldon called the magazine before Amy explained to him why Leonard was upset, but he still didn't get it until after speaking to Amy.

Edited February 22, 2015 by gsxdoug

[Nogravitasatall]

Leonard asked Sheldon to help him with the paper. He never specified to what extent. Also, we can't know for sure how much work Sheldon did. Leonard already had the idea and some equasions written. It is quite possible that, in the end, all of that was 50/50 credit.

If Leonard didn't like the paper, he could have demanded Sheldon to re do it with him involved, but he liked it and agreed for Sheldon to post it as a joined work.

The only way that could be compared to Sheldon cleaning up Penny's apartment is if Sheldon decided to go through Leonard's things out of curiosity, found the idea, wrote the paper on his own without telling anyone and published it as his own work.

We don't know how much consent Leonard gave, but I'm guessing none, considering his reaction. To make the argument otherwise requires a whole menu of guesses. He invited Sheldon to comment on his idea. Then without permission Sheldon wrote the paper. And the similarity between the other case is that Sheldon also didn't request permission. I don't know if you can have gradients of permission without consent. It is either consent with or without conditions or no consent.

Sheldon does stuff without consent all the time. That's his schtick. And Amy did the same thing recently. Its funny, and there on screen. They do the thing, then get forgiveness. BTW Leonard tried that with Penny when he wrote her paper, but she handed him his arse.

Edit. I think retrospective permission is just forgiveness. LOL.

Edited February 22, 2015 by Nogravitasatall

[Mislav]

If memory serves, Sheldon could've corrected the article's author from the get-go but didn't. He only called the magazine after it was clear that Leonard was upset, and even then only after Amy explained why Leonard was upset.

It was never mentioned did he ask that or not. Given his actions in The Apology Insufficiency, I found it doubtful that he wouldn't have done that.

Also, even if he did ask them, why would the magazine publish an article again, only with Leonard's name mentioned? After all, the subject of the article were lead scientists. If they didn't publish Leonard's name originally because they didn't have enough space, would they really publish the whole article with that mention again? Or would they just publish a note saying that Leonard was involved too? Because, honestly, that sound so riduculous that it is worse than not being mentioned at all.

Edited February 22, 2015 by Mislav

[Tonstar17]

I am not defending Sheldon all the time, only when I think it is justified.

And yes, I may rarely criticize Sheldon, but I never see you criticizing Leonard or Penny either. And I rarely criticize Leonard either, not just Sheldon. Not even about the whole Priya/Allison situation (which seems to be be pretty controversial among most of the fans...)

Well if you actually go into the lenny thread as you seem to claim you are also a lenny fan you will have notice I do criticise Leonard & Penny when I think they are wrong.

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[Mislav]

We don't know how much consent Leonard gave, but I'm guessing none, considering his reaction. To make the argument otherwise requires a whole menu of guesses. He invited Sheldon to comment on his idea. Then without permission Sheldon wrote the paper. And the similarity between the other case is that Sheldon also didn't request permission. I don't know if you can have gradients of permission without consent. It is either consent with or without conditions or no consent.

Sheldon does stuff without consent all the time. That's his schtick. And Amy did the same thing recently. Its funny, and there on screen. They do the thing, then get forgiveness. BTW Leonard tried that with Penny when he wrote her paper, but she handed him his arse.

Edit. I think retrospective permission is just forgiveness. LOL.

Penny then convinced Amy and Bernadette into writing the paper for her and then lied to Leonard.

Yes, definitely better than that whole Sheldon/Leonard thing.

Well if you actually go into the lenny thread as you seem to claim you are also a lenny fan you will have notice I do criticise Leonard & Penny when I think they are wrong.

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Given the negativity regarding Leonard/Penny relationship this season, from their fans, I stay away from that thread. Edited February 22, 2015 by Mislav

[Tonstar17]

Penny then convinced Amy and Bernadette into writing the paper for her and then lied to Leonard.

Yes, definitely better than that whole Sheldon/Leonard thing.

Given the negativity regarding Leonard/Penny relationship this season, from their fans, I stay away from that thread.

Love your excuses. Didn't see you there last season.

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[Mislav]

Love your excuses. Didn't see you there last season.

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Probably because I didn't register on this forum until near the end of season seven.

[Nogravitasatall]

Penny then convinced Amy and Bernadette into writing the paper for her and then lied to Leonard.

Yes, definitely better than that whole Sheldon/Leonard thing.

Given the negativity regarding Leonard/Penny relationship this season, from their fans, I stay away from that thread.

I'm not arguing Leonard was better. They were both wrong. It's not a scale. Consent - yes/no.

Also, if you want to go that way, was Leonard as wrong as Sheldon? Probably. He just doesn't make a career of it. And, Leonard suffered recriminations. But that's where the comedy comes from. Watching people wriggle uncomfortably.

[Mislav]

I'm not arguing Leonard was better. They were both wrong. It's not a scale. Consent - yes/no.

Also, if you want to go that way, was Leonard as wrong as Sheldon? Probably. He just doesn't make a career of it. And, Leonard suffered recriminations. But that's where the comedy comes from. Watching people wriggle uncomfortably.

In that particular post, I was talking about writing the paper itself, not about who was more wrong in an aftermath.

[Tonstar17]

Probably because I didn't register on this forum until near the end of season seven.

Give you that but when Penny got Amy & Bernadette to write her paper I thought that was wrong and it annoyed me even tho I saw her point in doing it. But it was still wrong. That's the difference between you & me. I don't make excuses for penny or Leonard's bad behaviours.

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[Nogravitasatall]

In that particular post, I was talking about writing the paper itself, not about who was more wrong in an aftermath.

I may have misunderstood you. I still think Sheldon overstepped in writing the paper without permission and that he should be pinged a bit more for that. He did wrong, despite the fact he stuck Leonard's name on at the end  But we may have to move away from this now. Onwards.

 

Cheers

[gsxdoug]

It was never mentioned did he ask that or not. Given his actions in The Apology Insufficiency, I found it doubtful that he wouldn't have done that.

Also, even if he did ask them, why would the magazine publish an article again, only with Leonard's name mentioned? After all, the subject of the article were lead scientists. If they didn't publish Leonard's name originally because they didn't have enough space, would they really publish the whole article with that mention again? Or would they just publish a note saying that Leonard was involved too? Because, honestly, that sound so riduculous that it is worse than not being mentioned at all.

So now Sheldon is lead scientist? And Leonard was just "involved?"

Also it was never mentioned that his name wasn't included for space considerations. That's just making excuses.

The magazine could print a correction in the next issue. And I'm pretty sure a magazine like Scientific American would have a website where they could clarify things like that.