Nogravitasatall Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) So now Sheldon is lead scientist? And Leonard was just "involved?" Also it was never mentioned that his name wasn't included for space considerations. That's just making excuses. The magazine could print a correction in the next issue. And I'm pretty sure a magazine like Scientific American would have a website where they could clarify things like that. The thing that I might need clarity about is "who gets credit for the idea". It's ok to do the math but Leonard had the idea. That spark of original thought is what deserves acclamation. It really is like Sheldon's Edison joke, with Sheldon as Edison. How cool is that. I wonder if they meant it that way. Might mean as Shelnard schism as a source of tension going forward. Edited February 23, 2015 by Nogravitasatall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mislav Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 So now Sheldon is lead scientist? And Leonard was just "involved?" Also it was never mentioned that his name wasn't included for space considerations. That's just making excuses. The magazine could print a correction in the next issue. And I'm pretty sure a magazine like Scientific American would have a website where they could clarify things like that. It was said that they were only mentioning lead scientists (not necessary regarding the paper but a certain field of study). I may have misunderstood you. I still think Sheldon overstepped in writing the paper without permission and that he should be pinged a bit more for that. He did wrong, despite the fact he stuck Leonard's name on at the end But we may have to move away from this now. Onwards. Cheers Completely disagree, except for the last part. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachelshamyfan Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Jim is currently talking on BBC radio 1 and he think the show will go to 12 seasons, he talked mostly about "home" but he also answered a few questions He has to use cream on his hand after constantly knocking on pennys door and there was a funny conversation about cursing and swearing because he said "hell" and thought it was a delayed live show when its live live Edited February 23, 2015 by rachelshamyfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxdoug Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 It was said that they were only mentioning lead scientists (not necessary regarding the paper but a certain field of study). Completely disagree, except for the last part. Cheers According to the taping report the article was specifically about Leonard and Sheldons' paper not about a field in general so the question still remains; how is Sheldon lead scientist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowbagger Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 The thing that I might need clarity about is "who gets credit for the idea". It's ok to do the math but Leonard had the idea. That spark of original thought is what deserves acclamation. It really is like Sheldon's Edison joke, with Sheldon as Edison. How cool is that. I wonder if they meant it that way. Might mean as Shelnard schism as a source of tension going forward. I think it would be a fruitful area of tension, because I genuinely think that intellectual property is a bit of a grey area here. Bear in mind that I am not a physicist, so Tensor, stardust, mamallama and others may have better insight. Also, I am a theorist-turned-empiricist, so I have a horse in both the 'idea' and 'execution' races. Here's my take: Leonard identified a pattern (possibly from experimental data) and came up with a hypothesis, or conjecture. If he was asking Sheldon for his opinion and citing Sheldon's mathematical capability, I would assume that he was asking something like whether the conjecture can generalise, or whether there is a new theory, or refinement to existing theory, based on said conjecture. Obviously the conjecture is Leonard's, but without theoretical grounding (and I am not getting into whether only Sheldon could have done the maths, in the same way that I am not getting into whether only Leonard could have come up with the conjecture. If that interests anyone, have at it and I will hold your coats and wish you luck) it may well have remained a conjecture. So basically I think that IP and contribution are a little bit fluid here. It's not obvious to me that 'I came up with the question!' automatically trumps 'I answered it!'*, or vice versa. Which makes for a compelling argument, if the show returns to the issue. * Obviously a grotesque oversimplification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mislav Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 According to the taping report the article was specifically about Leonard and Sheldons' paper not about a field in general so the question still remains; how is Sheldon lead scientist? Maybe because magazine editors concluded that, given that he is better at Math? Jim is currently talking on BBC radio 1 and he think the show will go to 12 seasons, he talked mostly about "home" but he also answered a few questions He has to use cream on his hand after constantly knocking on pennys door and there was a funny conversation about cursing and swearing because he said "hell" and thought it was a delayed live show when its live live No season twelve please! Two And a Half Men ran for twelve seasons and look how that turned out. Not counting the rest of season eight, that means four more seasons (seasons nine, ten, eleven and twelve). Ninety six new episodes. With Lenny engaged to be married, Sheldon finally saying I love you to Amy, Raj with Emily and Howard and Bernadette married for almost three years by now, how much long can they drag things out? By season twelve, everyone would be married, with children, maybe even Nobel Prize winners... what would be left for series finale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxdoug Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Maybe because magazine editors concluded that, given that he is better at Math? Kinda grasping at straws here, aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachelshamyfan Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Maybe because magazine editors concluded that, given that he is better at Math? No season twelve please! Two And a Half Men ran for twelve seasons and look how that turned out. Not counting the rest of season eight, that means four more seasons (seasons nine, ten, eleven and twelve). Ninety six new episodes. With Lenny engaged to be married, Sheldon finally saying I love you to Amy, Raj with Emily and Howard and Bernadette married for almost three years by now, how much long can they drag things out? By season twelve, everyone would be married, with children, maybe even Nobel Prize winners... what would be left for series finale? Tbbt is nothing like two half men, I would be happy for another 4 seasons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelette424 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Kinda grasping at straws here, aren't you? From what I recall from the TR, the publication only list one contributor and the author was a big fan of Sheldon's previous work. Sheldon's involvement was also the only reason why the author was interested in covering their paper. Therfore, Sheldon was the one who was mentioned. I never got the impression that the paper was published with Sheldon listed as the lead scientist, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxdoug Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) From what I recall from the TR, the publication only list one contributor and the author was a big fan of Sheldon's previous work. Sheldon's involvement was also the only reason why the author was interested in covering their paper. Therfore, Sheldon was the one who was mentioned. I never got the impression that the paper was published with Sheldon listed as the lead scientist, either. The TR says the magazine made an editorial decision to only list the "lead scientist." I have yet to see anyone give a good explanation as to why Sheldon should be considered the lead scientist. Simply because the author was a fan of Sheldon's (questionable) achievements is not a valid reason. Furthermore, the TR implies that Leonard isn't mentioned in the article at all, even though the original insight was his and he did the preliminary work, only initially asking Sheldon's opinion on the mathematical validity of his (Leonard's) idea. He and Sheldon submitted the paper together. The fact that Sheldon went ahead and wrote the paper without permission in the first place speaks more to his arrogance than anything else. The second article from another magazine at the end of the TR mentions Leonard so there is no reason the first one couldn't. Edited February 23, 2015 by gsxdoug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmp Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 On a less controversial topic, this morning I saw on cnn.com a compilation of audition tapes for people who applied and were rejected for the one-way trip to Mars. They're even worse than Sheldon's. Not sure if I can post the link, but here's a try: http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/02/19/erin-pkg-moos-mars-rejects-audition-tapes.cnn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsurrey Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 On a less controversial topic, this morning I saw on cnn.com a compilation of audition tapes for people who applied and were rejected for the one-way trip to Mars. They're even worse than Sheldon's. Not sure if I can post the link, but here's a try: http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/02/19/erin-pkg-moos-mars-rejects-audition-tapes.cnn Sarcasm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowbagger Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 The TR says the magazine made an editorial decision to only list the "lead scientist." I have yet to see anyone give a good explanation as to why Sheldon should be considered the lead scientist. I think nickelette answered this already: From what I recall from the TR, the publication only list one contributor and the author was a big fan of Sheldon's previous work. Sheldon's involvement was also the only reason why the author was interested in covering their paper. Therfore, Sheldon was the one who was mentioned. No, this is not an explanation of why Sheldon should be considered the lead scientist, because- as far as I can tell- nobody is making the contention that Sheldon should be considered the lead scientist. This is only why the magazine (in the episode) may make the decision to treat Sheldon as the lead scientist. Simply because the author was a fan of Sheldon's (questionable) achievements is not a valid reason. Nobody is claiming that it's a valid reason, are they? The mechanics of that entire plot were rather dumb (I thought). In real life, it is a bit silly for a scientific magazine to treat a two-author paper as though it were 'Cooper et al.', and it's also more than a bit silly for people in-show to behave as though the magazine doesn't have an online edition in which they can print a correction (it's a magazine, not the Ten Commandments). But hey-ho, the show needed a conflict, and I am happy for Leonard to get more diverse plots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denajeanx Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 On a less controversial topic, this morning I saw on cnn.com a compilation of audition tapes for people who applied and were rejected for the one-way trip to Mars. They're even worse than Sheldon's. Not sure if I can post the link, but here's a try: http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/02/19/erin-pkg-moos-mars-rejects-audition-tapes.cnn Oh my. Hahaha. Those are almost as bad as Howard's Star Wars audition tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhalen565 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 According to the taping report the article was specifically about Leonard and Sheldons' paper not about a field in general so the question still remains; how is Sheldon lead scientist? Especially as its a complete reversal of The Cooper-Hoftstadter Polarisation where Sheldon's idea was the lead and Leonard did the proof by experiment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmp Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Sarcasm? No, I just meant it wasn't part of the argument/debate about Sheldon and Leonard's paper, or whatever other topics are going on. My comment was just about a funny video of people who are so nutty they make Sheldon and his video look normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mislav Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 The TR says the magazine made an editorial decision to only list the "lead scientist." I have yet to see anyone give a good explanation as to why Sheldon should be considered the lead scientist. Simply because the author was a fan of Sheldon's (questionable) achievements is not a valid reason. Furthermore, the TR implies that Leonard isn't mentioned in the article at all, even though the original insight was his and he did the preliminary work, only initially asking Sheldon's opinion on the mathematical validity of his (Leonard's) idea. He and Sheldon submitted the paper together. The fact that Sheldon went ahead and wrote the paper without permission in the first place speaks more to his arrogance than anything else. The second article from another magazine at the end of the TR mentions Leonard so there is no reason the first one couldn't. And how is that Sheldon's fault? And if the fact that he wrote the paper speaks of his arrogance, what does the fact that he waited for Leonard's permission before publishing it and published it as a joined work speak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tensor Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 And how is that Sheldon's fault? And if the fact that he wrote the paper speaks of his arrogance, what does the fact that he waited for Leonard's permission before publishing it and published it as a joined work speak? They are two separate issues, the second has nothing to do with the first. Just so we're.clear, you don't think it was arrogant of Sheldon to just write the paper without talking to Leonard first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Pollard Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 And how is that Sheldon's fault? No one's saying it is. Try reading a little more carefully. And if the fact that he wrote the paper speaks of his arrogance, what does the fact that he waited for Leonard's permission before publishing it and published it as a joined work speak? One doesn't cancel out the other, but since Sheldon is never in the wrong no matter what he does... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mislav Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 No one's saying it is. Try reading a little more carefully. One doesn't cancel out the other, but since Sheldon is never in the wrong no matter what he does... Again, who is saying that he is never wrong? Where are you pulling this conclusions from? They are two separate issues, the second has nothing to do with the first. Just so we're.clear, you don't think it was arrogant of Sheldon to just write the paper without talking to Leonard first? I don't see how. He waited for Leonard to see the paper, meaning that he wanted to make sure that Leonard was OK with that. If Leonard wasn't OK with that, they could have gone ahead and write it again, together. But Leonard was OK with the Sheldon writing the paper. And they published it together, as a joined work. I see no arrogance there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tensor Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I don't see how.He waited for Leonard to see the paper, meaning that he wanted to make sure that Leonard was OK with that.After he wrote it without talking to Leonard. Waiting for him to look at it has nothing to do with his decision to write it. If Leonard wasn't OK with that, they could have gone ahead and write it again, together.Why not wait to talk to Leonard before writing it? This again has nothing to do with his decision to write it without talking to Leonard about it. But Leonard was OK with the Sheldon writing the paper.Again, after the fact and has nothing to do with his decision to write the paper. And they published it together, as a joined work.Again, after the fact and has nothing to do with his decision to write the paper. I see no arrogance there.Why? What other reason did Sheldon have to write it without consulting Leonard before writing it?Everything you pointed out was after the fact and has nothing to do with the fact that he wrote it without consulting Leonard. Concentrate on that and only that. What ever happened after or how it turned out has nothing to do with his decision to write it. It was arrogant of him to decide to write it without consulting with Leonard before he wrote it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mislav Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 After he wrote it without talking to Leonard. Waiting for him to look at it has nothing to do with his decision to write it. Why not wait to talk to Leonard before writing it? This again has nothing to do with his decision to write it without talking to Leonard about it. Again, after the fact and has nothing to do with his decision to write the paper. Again, after the fact and has nothing to do with his decision to write the paper. Why? What other reason did Sheldon have to write it without consulting Leonard before writing it? Everything you pointed out was after the fact and has nothing to do with the fact that he wrote it without consulting Leonard. Concentrate on that and only that. What ever happened after or how it turned out has nothing to do with his decision to write it. It was arrogant of him to decide to write it without consulting with Leonard before he wrote it. Arrogance would mean a display of superority or offensive way of superior self importance. Again, if that is a proof of arrogance, why did Sheldon consult Leonard at all, or published it as a joined work, or kept apologizing to Leonard after he wasn't mentioned in the magazine, even calling the magazine to ask them about the mistake? Arrogance would be if Leonard wasn't OK with the paper, and Sheldon refused re writing it together with him. Or if Sheldon had published it without talking to Leonard and took all the credit. Or somehow insulting Leonard's intelligence by writing it on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogravitasatall Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Leonard had the idea, Sheldon ran away with it. Leonard was not given a chance to approve of Sheldon doing that. All he could do was accept it as a done deal. Sheldon took away Leonard's choices. Consent matters. And wow. This thing has legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mislav Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Leonard had the idea, Sheldon ran away with it. Leonard was not given a chance to approve of Sheldon doing that. All he could do was accept it as a done deal. Sheldon took away Leonard's choices. Consent matters. And wow. This thing has legs. How was that all that he could have done? He could have easily disapproved of the paper if he didn't like it. Sheldon didn't originally have the permission to write the paper, that is true. But even if Leonard wasn't OK with that, no harm would be done.Also, consent, in non criminal situations, is a big grey area. Take Leonard's failed birthday surprise party in season one. Do you also think that Penny took away Leonard's consent and that she was in the wrong? At least in this episode, it turned out well for Leonard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tensor Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Arrogance would mean a display of superority or offensive way of superior self importance.And writing the paper, without consulting Leonard is classified as what? Again, if that is a proof of arrogance, why did Sheldon consult Leonard at all, or published it as a joined work, or kept apologizing to Leonard after he wasn't mentioned in the magazine, even calling the magazine to ask them about the mistake?This has what to do with the decision to write the paper without consulting Leonard. Arrogance would be if Leonard wasn't OK with the paper, and Sheldon refused re writing it together with him. Or if Sheldon had published it without talking to Leonard and took all the credit.Again, after the fact, after the fact, and after the fact. What do those have to do with the decision to write the paper without Leonard? Or somehow insulting Leonard's intelligence by writing it on his own.You mean like writing the paper by himself, without asking Leonard about it? That appears to me to be writing it on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now