Etienne Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 And again, what harm did Sheldon writing the paper cause? The magazine thing wasn't his fault, and even if Leonard did do the paper with someone else, it is possible that the same thing would have happened. And Leonard got his credit at the end. Also, nobody made Leomard agree with paper getting published. He decided that all on his own. From the taping report..."Sheldon is complaining about Leonard's attitude to Amy. Why isn't he happy that their paper is being talked about? It's not his fault that they didn't mention Leonard (and Amy agrees, it's not), and it's not his fault that when the interviewer named Sheldon as the lead scientist, he didn't correct him (oh, look what a pretty bird! Amy cries)." This sounds like the magazine thing was his fault, at least as far as getting a correction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tensor Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (sigh) I wrote a response to this, and then navigated away and lost my reply. Here goes again....That's exactly what I did this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowbagger Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I can buy all of your comments (I wrote a post earlier today on my phone and I did something that deleted it). But there is a presumption of arrogance with Sheldon though all his demonstration of arrogance throughout the series. While he may have gotten into the zone, the decision to write the paper without consent is, in my opinion arrogance. As far as Sheldon being the only one to do the math, In the deleted post, I pointed out that no one has commented on whether the math on the whiteboards represented something that only Sheldon could do. Remember, Leonard had the math up on the board asking Sheldon's opinion, so I find it silly that Leonard could do none of the math. The equations on the whiteboards aren't even String Theory, they are regular General Relativity and Quantum Field Theory. As it's a boundary problem, and it's low energy and low gravitational potential GR and QFT are perfect for this, string theory is not needed. This type of problem (not this particular problem) would be something PhD level students would be given to work through. Leonard has those skills, but you, as someone who has a foot in both theoretical and experimental should know, even if you have had the math skill set, if you are away from it for a while, you lose the sharp edge needed to there derivations and generalizations. That doesn't mean you can't do it, it just might take longer. I have an understanding and can follow the math. Leonard has a working knowledge of the math. Sheldon works with the math. But if I can follow the math on the whiteboards, I find it difficult to believe the Sheldon would be the only one that could work it out. That said, why not ask your friend if it's a good idea or his opinion. I have yet to see anyone explain why the math on the whiteboards could only be done by sheldon. Neat, I didn't know what was on the board! I don't think I have claimed (and if so, I misspoke and I apologise) that Sheldon's contribution was unique. I sort of think the guys were discussing a fictional cutting-edge problem, at the frontier of theory. So Leonard may not have been expected to have it on the go. But as I've said in other places, I am actually not super interested in whether anyone's contribution here was unique. As it happened, Leonard had to hand a theoretical physicist with the capability to think intelligently about a specialised problem. It was rational to approach him. PS: I suspect that the equations on the whiteboard may not actually represent the research the guys were discussing. Or rather I think we're meant to think that the research is more cutting-edge than the equations represent? It would be a ballsy move for a physicist to put his/her current research work on prominent display in The Last Sitcom Juggernaut! S maybe the equations are meant as a sort of 'genius bonus' for physicists in the audience to shake their heads over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogravitasatall Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 From the taping report..."Sheldon is complaining about Leonard's attitude to Amy. Why isn't he happy that their paper is being talked about? It's not his fault that they didn't mention Leonard (and Amy agrees, it's not), and it's not his fault that when the interviewer named Sheldon as the lead scientist, he didn't correct him (oh, look what a pretty bird! Amy cries)." This sounds like the magazine thing was his fault, at least as far as getting a correction. I think it's good to recognise that infallibility is just a concept. heheh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismo Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I agree that Sheldon can be arrogant at times, but I don't think the paper thing was a proof of that. I actually think that was one of the first episode to actually show his character development.it seems to me the episode could be divided into two halves in regards to Leonard and Sheldon. One was before the click of the mouse the other part after. The arrogance happened twice before the click. the first time when Sheldon called Leonard idea "their idea". The second was when he went beyond just doing the math but writing the report espicially since they are roommates. He could of easily just asked Leonard if he could write a report. After the click what happened wasn't really his fault. Could he made a better effort in correcting a wrong? If it had been the other way around would Leonard made a better effort correcting a wrong? I think both answers are yes. In regards to the credit for the paper I don't know how that exactly works. The only thing I can sort of compare to is an architect. I live in an area where there are many Frank Lloyd Wright (a famous architect) houses that you can visit. Wright didn't actually by hand build the houses but had the idea. it seems to me if anything Leonard alone should of gotten credit. I don't know anyone's name who was involved in the actual construction.of the houses. in regards to this episode as being character development for Sheldon. I think he should have been well past this point in his life. kind of like a ten year old finally learning to ride a tricycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denajeanx Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Maybe this was Sheldon's revenge for Leonard fudging his North Pole data. I'm not even sure if I'm being sarcastic or not. It's a real problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etienne Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Maybe this was Sheldon's revenge for Leonard fudging his North Pole data. I'm not even sure if I'm being sarcastic or not. It's a real problem. Probably not the best example. Although they gave him made up data to keep him happy, they kept the original good data. The problem blew up when Sheldon rushed to publish the alleged discovery before verifing the data and without mentioning to his "team" that he was going to print. Raj, Howard, and Leonard apparently didn't suffer any damage to their reputations and it seems Sheldon neglected to mention his "team" in the paper. Wait, is there a pattern emerging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denajeanx Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Probably not the best example. Although they gave him made up data to keep him happy, they kept the original good data. The problem blew up when Sheldon rushed to publish the alleged discovery before verifing the data and without mentioning to his "team" that he was going to print. Raj, Howard, and Leonard apparently didn't suffer any damage to their reputations and it seems Sheldon neglected to mention his "team" in the paper. Wait, is there a pattern emerging? Yeah... I wasn't being serious. But thanks for playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantagrae Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Wow, are people STILL talking about this? If Leonard was okay with it, why are we hung up on it? There was an issue with the magazine's decision to omit Leonard's name, but Leonard didn't flip out over it. He was understandably miffed, but he didn't try to kill Sheldon in his sleep over it. Whatever the writers choose to do with it in the future, until it becomes a real issue, L & S seem to still be okay with each other and Leonard isn't accusing Sheldon of any impropriety. So what's the fuss about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismo Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Wow, are people STILL talking about this? If Leonard was okay with it, why are we hung up on it? There was an issue with the magazine's decision to omit Leonard's name, but Leonard didn't flip out over it. He was understandably miffed, but he didn't try to kill Sheldon in his sleep over it. Whatever the writers choose to do with it in the future, until it becomes a real issue, L & S seem to still be okay with each other and Leonard isn't accusing Sheldon of any impropriety. So what's the fuss about?Just like the 4 minutes of eye coitus on Thursday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogravitasatall Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Wow, are people STILL talking about this? If Leonard was okay with it, why are we hung up on it? There was an issue with the magazine's decision to omit Leonard's name, but Leonard didn't flip out over it. He was understandably miffed, but he didn't try to kill Sheldon in his sleep over it. Whatever the writers choose to do with it in the future, until it becomes a real issue, L & S seem to still be okay with each other and Leonard isn't accusing Sheldon of any impropriety. So what's the fuss about? It's got great legs hasn't it. I do wonder what it will take for Leonard to decide something is beyond the pale. Sheldon might be special, but Leonard isn't a slouch either. So why does he keep eating the sandwich and saying its tasty And it is going to be a very, very long engagement. With two adults needing Sheldon's consent to sleep together. Weird. Better not to think about the war and just fight the skirmishes. The scale is so small. Even the L/P thread is showing signs of coveting minutiae of interaction because TPTB are working so finely and dribbling out the goodness. Its short rations, which is why there is scrabbling over scraps. Edited February 24, 2015 by Nogravitasatall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantagrae Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Just like the 4 minutes of eye coitus on Thursday? It isn't eye coitus if they're not in love, which they're not. And I'm not bothered by it in the first place. I'd be just as tired of that issue going round and round as this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy2611 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 OMG!! My head officially hurts now....[emoji30] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 There was an issue with the magazine's decision to omit Leonard's name, but Leonard didn't flip out over it. He was understandably miffed, but he didn't try to kill Sheldon in his sleep over it. At this point in their relationship, I don't think Leonard needs a SPECIFIC reason to want to kill Sheldon in his sleep. White noise kind of thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxdoug Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Wow, are people STILL talking about this? If Leonard was okay with it, why are we hung up on it? There was an issue with the magazine's decision to omit Leonard's name, but Leonard didn't flip out over it. He was understandably miffed, but he didn't try to kill Sheldon in his sleep over it. Whatever the writers choose to do with it in the future, until it becomes a real issue, L & S seem to still be okay with each other and Leonard isn't accusing Sheldon of any impropriety. So what's the fuss about? I think it speaks highly of the passion we all have for this show, that we are so willing to debate it's minutiae at such lengths. If I wanted to just talk to people who are going to do nothing but agree with my every statement, I'd be spending my time at the Lollipop Guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxdoug Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 And again, what harm did Sheldon writing the paper cause? The magazine thing wasn't his fault, and even if Leonard did do the paper with someone else, it is possible that the same thing would have happened. And Leonard got his credit at the end. Also, nobody made Leomard agree with paper getting published. He decided that all on his own. I'm pretty sure the debate wasn't about whether or not Leonard was harmed by Sheldon writing the paper, but nice attempt at moving the goalposts. Leonard most certainly could've been harmed by not getting proper credit for his insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismo Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 It isn't eye coitus if they're not in love, which they're not. And I'm not bothered by it in the first place. I'd be just as tired of that issue going round and round as this one.there's really no such thing as eye coitus anyways. you may not be bothered but many people are including some of your fellow shippers. if you are tired of the topic I wouldn't be on here Thursday night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tensor Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 That particular kind of Math was needed for that paper to be completed.Which equations on the white boards were the derivations of Leonard's equations when he explained it to Sheldon. Which equations were strictly Sheldon's. Which were strictly Leonard's? Which equations were GR and which were QFT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tensor Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Neat, I didn't know what was on the board! I'm always hitting pause to look at them and see what's there. I don't think I have claimed (and if so, I misspoke and I apologise) that Sheldon's contribution was unique. I sort of think the guys were discussing a fictional cutting-edge problem, at the frontier of theory. So Leonard may not have been expected to have it on the go. No, you didn't claim this (others did, but not you, so no apology needed). But as I've said in other places, I am actually not super interested in whether anyone's contribution here was unique. As it happened, Leonard had to hand a theoretical physicist with the capability to think intelligently about a specialised problem. It was rational to approach him. I agree, most of my point was that Leonard could have done it, and there were quite a few others out there that could have done it. The original comment I challenged was that the equations wouldn't have been found (I thing the original comment was the mechanics wouldn't have been found (or understood) without Sheldon). Leonard had the equations up on the original board when he was explaining it to Sheldon. Sheldon suggested that Leonard could have set Newton's gravitational constant to one. Which wouldn't have changed the equations, just simplified them. So I find it silly to state that Sheldon was the only one. Could and did he do it faster than Leonard, I'm quite sure he did. But, only because he works with that math and most of those equations every day. The GR equations treat space as a fluid, so the GR equations (the flow of energy through a given point is similar to the flow of whatever fluid through a given point) and uses a very similar Tensor. (I better stop before I get way over everyone else's heads, if anyone want to know more, PM me). PS: I suspect that the equations on the whiteboard may not actually represent the research the guys were discussing. Or rather I think we're meant to think that the research is more cutting-edge than the equations represent? It would be a ballsy move for a physicist to put his/her current research work on prominent display in The Last Sitcom Juggernaut! S maybe the equations are meant as a sort of 'genius bonus' for physicists in the audience to shake their heads over. It's not really cutting edge, but there are actually several papers in Arxiv that discuss superfluids and cosmology. The equations on the boards are very similar (I can't read all of the components and greek terms so I can't unequivocally state that they are the same, but the operations are). As far as I can tell, the equations and information on the boards fit with whatever is being discussed in that particular episode, even if the information on the whiteboards isn't specifically talked about. During the flashback episode, several of the equations on the boards, are velocity, pressure and other equations dealing with rocket flight and rocket fuel, in addition to the labels "B Stoff" and "C Stoff". This is how the Germans referred to the fuel and oxidizer in their rocket propulsion during WWII. In the Higg's Boson Observation, there was a reference to the actual paper (it was the Arxiv registration number) that announced the discovery of the Higg's Boson. Along with some of the equations and charts from that and other Higg's papers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowbagger Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Holy shit, Tensor! I am happily charmed at the show's-er-showing its work (okay, I'll stop with the TV Tropes-quoting now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxdoug Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 ehm..no I'm saying they should give him boundaries - they should stood by themselves and stood up to him when he's doing something they don't like,not just "let it go" because he's Sheldon. And I'm not saying they are not doing it already to some degree, they do, and that's the reason while Sheldon from few years ago wouldn't care about sad Leonard at all and now, he's trying to comfort him. Its all on them, that he even care for other people now. And I don't think Leonard is one of those who would just "take all of his crap," all the time, so if he would have big problem with him not asking permission to work on his idea, or didn't want his work at all, I don't see why he wouldn't say something. If he don't have big problem with this, I just really don't see why I should. Still sounds to me like you're absolving Sheldon of responsibility. Time for some truth; They've given Sheldon an ever shifting grab bag of neurosis for the sake of humour , that's all there is to it. That his fans use this to excuse just about any behavior is a bit much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamyyes Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Jim Parsons stated in an interview in the UK yesterday that he feels the show will continue through Season 12. What are some thoughts on this. Edited February 24, 2015 by Shamyyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismo Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Hmmm, I think we're getting dangerously close to trying to diagnose Sheldon and his 'deal'. The show has a bit of a difficulty with the character: if you come out and say that he has a specific neurological condition, then we'll (rightly) feel bad about laughing at his behaviour. If you say he doesn't, then people who don't like him will say 'Oh, he's just an arsehole, then. Why do people put up with him?' .i can't disagree with what you're saying.. What I don't get is the people who say that he has a condition but,for example this season, he's made tremendous growth. It seems to me he couldn't show growth if he had an actual condition. I think in the 8 years of the show Leonard and Amy have been enablers and allowed his behavior.Kind of like the saying you give someone an inch they take a mile. Someone mentioned all the characters on the show have faults which is true. Sheldon's IMO just has more and they are more obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maitetxup Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Jim Parsons stated in an interview in the UK yesterday that he feels the show will continue through Season 12. What are some thoughts on this. I WILL Love that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismo Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Jim Parsons stated in an interview in the UK yesterday that he feels the show will continue through Season 12. What are some thoughts on this.Don't need to see Sheldon and Leonard getting their AARP cards. It seems their stretching to get 10 season as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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