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S8 Discussion Thread

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All of the couples have their obstacles. Penny and Leonard had to deal with career choices, neediness, parents, distance, jealousy, and a whole lot more. Howard and Bernadette went through Howard's attachment to his mother, his mother's illness, a slutty internet troll, Howard going into space, Bernadette's salary raise, and then some. Just because a couple struggles doesn't mean they're not genuine. It took Penny and Leonard 7 years to get engaged. It only took Howard and Bernadette 2-3. Does that make Leonard and Penny's relationship less worthy? Sure, Amy and Sheldon haven't consummated their relationship yet, but they are two VERY different people than Leonard and Penny/Howard and Bernadette. Their intimacy works on different terms. You can't go comparing them with other couples; that's just blatantly ignoring the characters.

 

No, it didn't. They were only a couple for a combined total of 2.5 of those years, and in that time they had a much more mature relationship.

 

Yes, all couples have their obstacles, but this goes beyond that. This is someone who is seeking after dreams and desires she has with someone who is incapable of giving them to her, and treats her like crap to boot. 

Edited by DaisyJane

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If were being technical here, Leonard has been dating Penny since the pilot haha. They dated in 1x23 and 2x01, so I guess you can count that. They formaley entered a romantic relationship in S3, lasted almost the entire season. Reconciled in S5 and has lasted almost Three seasons/years. So I guess counting Season 1 Finalie and 2x01, argue it took them four years to get engaged. And the other three years being friends/neighbours. While Shamy have their own version of happy, and their trajectory is a lot different. It is also best to remember Amy's desires and aspirations for their relationship differ from Sheldon's, and their has been no evidence to suggest Sheldon can give or is capable of giving Amy what she need's and wants. But once again I'll say it Amy wants Sheldon regardless of what anyone else thinks.

Edited by 3ku11

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No, it didn't. They were only a couple for a combined total of 2.5 of those years, and in that time they had a much more mature relationship.

Yes, all couples have their obstacles, but this goes beyond that. This is someone who is seeking after dreams and desires she has with someone who is incapable of giving them to her, and treats her like crap to boot.

While they were not necessarily in a relationship the entire time, they were emotionally invested in each other. The things Leonard and Penny went through when they weren't dating were just as important and necessary to their development as what occurred when they actually were boyfriend/girlfriend. I wasn't saying that they were in a relationship for 7 years. I was saying that it took them 7 years to arrive at where they are today.

I disagree. I believe that Sheldon is capable of giving Amy "what she wants." And really, when it comes down to it, all she really wants is a happy relationship with Sheldon. And it's been presented continually that all that requires is mutual respect and admiration between the two of them. The milestones of garden-variety romance (coitus! marriage! babies!) just aren't condusive to them, specifically, as a couple.

It's called character development. It's a process. We have 3 more seasons for both Sheldon and Amy to grow and change. Penny wasn't prepared to get married to Leonard in S5, but did that mean she wouldn't ever get there? No. Bernadette has already established that she doesn't want children, but did Howard end the relationship in order to go and find someone who would "give him what he wanted?" No. You make sacrifices for the person you love, because you love them and want to be with them -- not because they don't fulfill all of your fantasies.

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Amy doesn't want anybody else but Sheldon, she already thinks Zak is a moron

Rachel, I am sympathetic to Amy but I hope she doesnt have to wait forever. She will some day know the love of a good man, to paraphrase Adrian Mole. LOL. I just wonder when. And I tell my girls not to give any bloke that much authority over them. hehehe

Cheers

 

N

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Who's it tough for? You? It's interesting that I've asked you three other times as to why you think my daughter is some sort of leech when her boyfriend/fiancé/husband (as he's supported her in all three of those phases of their relationship) while she was running all over the country for auditions, master classes, etc. I would also point out that Penny did earn money as an actress, so it wasn't just one person in the relationship bringing everything.

 

It's tough on the person who has to subsidize their partner. I've seen my fair share of couples sink over financial resentment, so I am basing a lot of it on what I have seen, I'd like to think I learned from their mistakes. If my boyfriend came to me and asked me to bankroll him while he chased a pipe dream I'd laugh. Putting those kinds of unnecessary demands on your partner sounds very selfish to me. I don't want to say anything about your daughter, but I do wonder what stopped her from contributing in that time, because as I mentioned two of my girlfriends are in law school programs and they still work full-time. 

 

So, you have no actual experience in this situation to support your contentions. It's all based on what you imagine the situation to be.

 

None of my own, but I have an aunt whose ex-husband quit his job as an anesthesiologist and devote his time to hobbies because he had a wife who was bringing home big bucks and felt he didn't need to work (they had no kids). They divorced and she still has to pay him alimony even though he didn't contribute jackshit to the marriage. I nannied in college for two families with "full-time moms" (laughable, if that were true why was I there?) who managed to simultaneously gripe at their husbands for not being home enough while expected them to make six figures in order to fund their lifestyle. There was tons of resentment in those relationships, not surprising to me as money tends to do that, largely in part because of the stress these people were under from their demanding partners. To be honest, I've see money used as a power play in so many different sorts of relationships it isn't even funny. So no, my "contentions" are not based in my imagination, not in the least. 

 

Who's it tough for? You?I find it highly entertaining that you bring this up in a Penny/Leonard discussion as Penny was the one who was likely to leave when she wanted and the person supporting her would have loved to be her spouse. If this is your argument, then Penny brought it on herself.

 

When was Penny likely to leave? Anyone who gambles with their financial future in such an unnecessary way and has it blow up brings it on themselves. But Leonard made no secret of the fact that he thought the whole thing was asinine in Occupation Recalibration, even having to rehearse what he said to Penny so it would be somewhat convincing. That was under the circumstance he didn't support her financially, so imagine how much worse it would be if that did happen. Additionally, while he is a good guy, he is not a saint. He is just as capable of leaving, cheating, or breaking up the relationship, and in those conditions Penny would rightfully be left with nothing (and would owe him whatever he paid for the car, even if it was a gift). But I was speaking more on principle on that point, and interestingly enough you didn't not refute that.

 

 

Like I've said, tell that to my daughter and her husband. He started supporting her as her boyfriend five years ago, continued to support her as her fiancé, and after they got married. It was only a year and a half ago that she started getting regular work. She now gets work as leads or featured and is now making more than her husband. Was it a gamble? Sure, but it's a gamble you take when your young and for them it's paid off.

 

Your daughter and son-in-law are very lucky, but I'd venture that had she not began getting steady work (many actors never do) it would be a different story. In gambling, for every one winner there are about three losers.

Edited by DaisyJane

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I don't know what the title will be, but I'm hoping for a joke about how Sheldon will either let them know where he is or how fast he's going, but never both at the same time.

That is very funny!!!!!! Hope we hear something like that.

As for Amy I won't be the one to disagree that she has given Sheldon much more authority that she should have. But they weren't always like that. Actually I think most of the times especially in the past they had a pretty equal relationship. I am positive they will find that again as long as the writers decide that Amy doesn't have to be the joke of the episode.

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You cant one second say cant compare to other couples with Shamy as they are different, as are Lenny and H/B which is true all couples have their obstacles. Next instance say oh Penny wasent ready for marrage in S5. Well yes but thats no guarentee Shamys trajectory well lead to the same outcome. From my vantage point, i have seen no evidence over the past four seasons Sheldon is capable of giving Amy what she needs, a functioning adult in a adult relationship. I mean his track record speaks for it self! Lol. I sincerley hope the writers bring Sheldon back, and he embraces change and makes Amy more of a priority. Really over Sheldon the manchild, and when its on his terms and convinient well treat Amy like his gf. But when its not he has tantrums over Strawberry Milk, and walks out on her lol I mean come on! Only time they were equals was in S4 in Herb Garden, and it wasent a romantic relationship then, has been one since hijacking Amy and Stuarts date. But well see.

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I've seen my fair share of couples sink over financial resentment, so I am basing a lot of it on what I have seen, I'd like to think I learned from their mistakes. If my boyfriend came to me and asked me to bankroll him while he chased a pipe dream I'd laugh. Putting those kinds of unnecessary demands on your partner sounds very selfish to me.

I'd agree with you, if one put those demands on their partner. But talking it over with your partner, then making the decision as a couple, both sides giving a bit, is hardly selfish.

 

I don't want to say anything about your daughter, but I do wonder what stopped her from contributing in that time, because as I mentioned two of my girlfriends are in law school programs and they still work full-time.

So you're comparing two people who stay in the same place, with classes at specified time that they can work around, with someone who (and I'll quote my own post, don't know how you missed it): "while she was running all over the country for auditions, master classes, etc." She tried to keep a job, but couldn't because of her travels, along with those "surprise" auditions. Her and her partner agreed she should continue working on her acting.

 

 

None of my own, but I have an aunt whose ex-husband quit his job as an anesthesiologist and devote his time to hobbies because he had a wife who was bringing home big bucks and felt he didn't need to work (they had no kids).

So, a unilateral decision. Not applicable to this situation.

 

They divorced and she still has to pay him alimony even though he didn't contribute jackshit to the marriage. I nannied in college for two families with "full-time moms" (laughable, if that were true why was I there?) who managed to simultaneously gripe at their husbands for not being home enough while expected them to make six figures in order to fund their lifestyle. There was tons of resentment in those relationships, not surprising to me as money tends to do that, largely in part because of the stress these people were under from their demanding partners.

It wasn't the money, it was the lack of communication. You don't need a lot of money for a relationship to have resentment in it, but you do need a lack of communication. Again, not applicable to the situation.

 

To be honest, I've see money used as a power play in so many different sorts of relationships it isn't even funny. So no, my "contentions" are not based in my imagination, not in the least.

And, your examples of a power play being used in either my daughter's or Leoanrd and Penny's relationship, is what? Something you expect to happen or do you have a concrete example? Not to mention such a power play sound like an example of a non-loving supportive relationship. Can you point out where in Lenny's relationship they are non-loving, non-supportive?

 

When was Penny likely to leave?

When was she likely to stay? She didn't want to move in with him. She didn't want to marry him. Exactly what did she do that gave confidence that she wasn't going to bolt? Or, should we talk about her lack of talking her quitting over with him, before she did it? You know, like he did before running off to the North Sea.

 

Anyone who gambles with their financial future in such an unnecessary way and has it blow up brings it on themselves. But Leonard made no secret of the fact that he thought the whole thing was asinine in Occupation Recalibration, even having to rehearse what he said to Penny so it would be somewhat convincing.

As I said, she didn't bother talking it over with him, instead handing him a fait accompli. If she had bothered to talk it over with him, he would have been able to present the cons of her decision. But she didn't do that. He was left to try to explain his worries awkwardly. But, at the end, he did support her (Sheldon's non-pertinent comments removed):

Penny: Look, I know you think I’m being reckless, and you might be right, but I need to take this shot.

Leonard: I swear, I am on your side.

Penny: You keep saying you’re on my side, but you don’t act like it.

Leonard: Listen, I could never do what you’re doing, okay? I would be terrified.

Penny: Well, it’s scary for me, too.

Leonard: My point is, just because I couldn’t do it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t. And I’m proud of you.

Penny: Okay. Thank you.

 

That was under the circumstance he didn't support her financially, so imagine how much worse it would be if that did happen.

Additionally, while he is a good guy, he is not a saint. He is just as capable of leaving, cheating, or breaking up the relationship, and in those conditions Penny would rightfully be left with nothing (and would owe him whatever he paid for the car, even if it was a gift).

But I was speaking more on principle on that point, and interestingly enough you didn't not refute that.

It did happen. To the point of buying her a car. And he supported her in other ways. Finding Will Wheaton to talk to her to give her confidence, standing up for her on set, etc. The entire second half of the season was nothing but Leonard supporting her, both emotionally and financially.

 

I like how you ignore Penny's real history of being reluctant to commit to the relationship, but are more than happy to speculate that Leonard is capable of leaving, cheating on Penny or breaking up the relationship, when there is no history of him doing such a thing to Penny. And, if he put it in her name, unless he had her sign a contract (which is doubtful as he says he gave her a car), she would not owe him for anything.

 

There was nothing to refute. You mentioned half of all marriages fail. What percentage fail because one is supporting the other? What percentage is due to a lack of communication? How many are due to sexual reasons? Until you can provide me with something tangible as far as what causes a marriage failure, and how that ties in with supporting your spouse, there nothing to refute. It's like me saying half of all marriages succeed, so supporting your spouse keeps people married.

 

Your daughter and son-in-law are very lucky, but I'd venture that had she not began getting steady work (many actors never do) it would be a different story. In gambling, for every one winner there are about three losers. 

So, you're saying he shouldn't have supported her at all? Or, should they have set a specific time limit for support? (BTW, they did) I'm well aware that many actresses don't get work. Notice though that Penny got two jobs within three months. That is success in LA. Does that success continue? Not looking that way, but then it seems from spoilers that since its not working, she finds a job. There's gambling, then there's informed gambling and then there is a couple making a decision.

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Daisy and others with the same concern, here's my two cents as an old married lady.  Every couple is different in their financial arrangement.  The particulars--who makes more money, how they divvy up the financial responsibilities--are not what really matters.  All that matters is whether both parties are satisfied with the arrangement.  If one of them feels it's not equitable, there will be conflict.  In the examples you're talking about, Daisy, imagine if the couple had had the discussion and mutually decided how it would be, and then renegotiated as needed.  I'm betting it would have been different.  The writers are making it clear that Lenny are both happy so what they're doing works for them.  Stop worrying.

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I think overall what works for some might not work for others and vice versa.  Even if outsiders see something is broken, to the couple in a relationship, it maybe not.  This could be the case for any issues that any couple might be faced with.

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She hasn't ever had anyone else. I'm not saying that is bad, lots of people find lasting love with the first person they meet, but when that person is as dysfunctional as Sheldon you have to point that out. Because if he is who she has her heart set on, she will have to make some major sacrifices. A life with him will be devoid of intimacy or adventure, major milestones (marriage, babies, buying a house, any sort of real change) are things she will get to watch her friends have while never experiencing it herself because Sheldon is not capable of giving those to her. She has expressed desire for them, but if she stays with Sheldon she will not get them. This was made very clear in the finale, when Howardette were dealing with the challenges of an ailing parent as a married couple, Lenny were enjoying their engagement, and Raj and Emily basked in the afterglow of having made love; something she has not done with Sheldon after 4+ years together. They were moving on with their lives and building adult relationships while she was making him Strawberry Milk, dealing with his tantrum, and panicking after he'd be gone after less than a few hours (this is usually not necessary when dealing with another adult, as they are expected to take care of themselves). It was a sharp contrast. 

 

Yes, Zach is dumb, but he is also kind, handsome, loving, and sociable. He doesn't insult everyone he comes into contact with or have to be scolded repeatedly when taken out in public. He doesn't throw temper tantrums over minor occurrences.  So really, Amy is embarrassing herself and hurting her reputation a lot more being with Sheldon than she would being with someone like Zach. 

 

The bolded part is very important.

Edited by pisquenta

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She hasn't ever had anyone else. I'm not saying that is bad, lots of people find lasting love with the first person they meet, but when that person is as dysfunctional as Sheldon you have to point that out. Because if he is who she has her heart set on, she will have to make some major sacrifices. A life with him will be devoid of intimacy or adventure, major milestones (marriage, babies, buying a house, any sort of real change) are things she will get to watch her friends have while never experiencing it herself because Sheldon is not capable of giving those to her. She has expressed desire for them, but if she stays with Sheldon she will not get them. This was made very clear in the finale, when Howardette were dealing with the challenges of an ailing parent as a married couple, Lenny were enjoying their engagement, and Raj and Emily basked in the afterglow of having made love; something she has not done with Sheldon after 4+ years together. They were moving on with their lives and building adult relationships while she was making him Strawberry Milk, dealing with his tantrum, and panicking after he'd be gone after less than a few hours (this is usually not necessary when dealing with another adult, as they are expected to take care of themselves). It was a sharp contrast. 

 

Yes, Zach is dumb, but he is also kind, handsome, loving, and sociable. He doesn't insult everyone he comes into contact with or have to be scolded repeatedly when taken out in public. He doesn't throw temper tantrums over minor occurrences.  So really, Amy is embarrassing herself and hurting her reputation a lot more being with Sheldon than she would being with someone like Zach. 

 

and Zach is quite irrelevant. Amy is attracted to Sheldon. Perhaps there is no logic in that or perhaps they are kindred spirits despite the fact that most would stay as far away from Sheldon as possible. Bottom line is we have a story about Leonard, Sheldon, Penny and gang. If Amy is not with Sheldon she is off tbbt. Zack is in very few episodes.

Edited by djsurrey

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and Zach is quite irrelevant. Amy is attracted to Sheldon. Perhaps there is no logic in that or perhaps they are kindred spirits despite the fact that most would stay as far away from Sheldon as possible. Bottom line is we have a story about Leonard, Sheldon, Penny and gang. If Amy is not with Sheldon she is off tbbt. Zack is in very few episodes.

I don't think she is off the show, she is still in the council of ladies and Penny's bestie.

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and Zach is quite irrelevant. Amy is attracted to Sheldon. Perhaps there is no logic in that or perhaps they are kindred spirits despite the fact that most would stay as far away from Sheldon as possible. Bottom line is we have a story about Leonard, Sheldon, Penny and gang. If Amy is not with Sheldon she is off tbbt. Zack is in very few episodes.

 

Another poster mentioned him, and I thought it would be helpful to contrast someone like him with Sheldon (as you may have seen, he is better in every regard except book smarts). And Amy would not have to be off the show without Sheldon, she has established strong friendship with Penny and Bernadette, and I'm sure the guys would be sympathetic to her. 

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Another poster mentioned him, and I thought it would be helpful to contrast someone like him with Sheldon (as you may have seen, he is better in every regard except book smarts). And Amy would not have to be off the show without Sheldon, she has established strong friendship with Penny and Bernadette, and I'm sure the guys would be sympathetic to her. 

the truth of the matter is that Mayim was hired to play Amy, Sheldon's girlfriend. if there is no Shamy, there's no reason to keep her. Of course, her contract is in effect. So, Amy will continue wanting Sheldon because as she stated, " he's not just a boyfriend... he's the best boyfriend..he's Dr. Sheldon Cooper" end of story. and let's not forget that she has gone out on dates because her mother made her. She chose Sheldon to continue some sort of relationship and Sheldon chose her. no Zack ..no Stuart... ONLY SHELDON.   ( gee, can you tell I'm a Shamy fan????  :girlinlove:         :give_rose: )

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the truth of the matter is that Mayim was hired to play Amy, Sheldon's girlfriend. if there is no Shamy, there's no reason to keep her. Of course, her contract is in effect. So, Amy will continue wanting Sheldon because as she stated, " he's not just a boyfriend... he's the best boyfriend..he's Dr. Sheldon Cooper" end of story. and let's not forget that she has gone out on dates because her mother made her. She chose Sheldon to continue some sort of relationship and Sheldon chose her. no Zack ..no Stuart... ONLY SHELDON.   ( gee, can you tell I'm a Shamy fan????  :girlinlove:         :give_rose: )

So, is this like an inverted "Taming of the Shrew"? Does Amy have to win Sheldon over, and over, and over - essentially converting him or thawing him out until he reaches a tipping point? While at the same the time not getting on with a ticking away lifetime. It's kinda vexed. I hope we get something different and interesting going forward. I look forward to being surprised. I don't really have any great expectation that I will be on some of the story lines.

Unless Sheldon gets abducted by aliens. Heheheh

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and Zach is quite irrelevant. Amy is attracted to Sheldon. Perhaps there is no logic in that or perhaps they are kindred spirits despite the fact that most would stay as far away from Sheldon as possible. Bottom line is we have a story about Leonard, Sheldon, Penny and gang. If Amy is not with Sheldon she is off tbbt. Zack is in very few episodes.

If this was three years ago I would agree. But at this point with her friendship to Penny and Bernadette she could last awhile without being with Sheldon. I do agree that they would have to hook her up with someone else like Stuart rather than Zach.

 

 

Another poster mentioned him, and I thought it would be helpful to contrast someone like him with Sheldon (as you may have seen, he is better in every regard except book smarts). And Amy would not have to be off the show without Sheldon, she has established strong friendship with Penny and Bernadette, and I'm sure the guys would be sympathetic to her.

Comparing Zach and Sheldon is like comparing Penny and Alex. Though Zach may have better personality traits Amy isn't going to be with someone that stupid. Alex certainly has more common interests and book smarts with Leonard than Penny. Even Professor Proton asked Leonard what do the two of them (Leonard and Penny)talk about. But the fact remains Leonard loves Penny and Amy loves Sheldon for reasons not always easily understood.
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But the fact remains Leonard loves Penny and Amy loves Sheldon for reasons not always easily understood.

These are exactly my feelings 100%.  Sometimes its hard to question why one or two people love the people they do, but they just do!!!

Edited by kerrycec03
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I would be fine if Amy and Sheldon broke up, see more of independent Amy and not pining after Sheldon all the time. But seeing the whole show orbits around Lenny, with less Lenny to fall back on, I can see Sheldon gravitating towards Amy more. With Sheldon most likely living alone, give him and Amy more time to do what ever they do when they are alone haha. Yeah not sure about Emily, she is quirky but not so sure about her being a permanent member of their group.   

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I would be fine if Amy and Sheldon broke up, see more of independent Amy and not pining after Sheldon all the time. But seeing the whole show orbits around Lenny, with less Lenny to fall back on, I can see Sheldon gravitating towards Amy more. With Sheldon most likely living alone, give him and Amy more time to do what ever they do when they are alone haha. Yeah not sure about Emily, she is quirky but not so sure about her being a permanent member of their group.   

 

If they were to break up I think it would be a short break up. There is too much potential there to explore. The point of Sheldon's walk about is to have him change. I expect that will encourage Amy.

 

Who knows where the Raj/Emily story will go. How would Emily feel to learn that Raj has told the whole gang they have slept together. A person should resist temptations to be so indiscreet. Not one of his friends had the smarts to say be more discrete.

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If they were to break up I think it would be a short break up. There is too much potential there to explore. The point of Sheldon's walk about is to have him change. I expect that will encourage Amy.

Who knows where the Raj/Emily story will go. How would Emily feel to learn that Raj has told the whole gang they have slept together. A person should resist temptations to be so indiscreet. Not one of his friends had the smarts to say be more discrete.

For me its not that he told them but the way he told them.

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