S8 Discussion Thread

[Nogravitasatall]

It seems there can no intermediate independent joy for L/P. The structure of the show requires no change until the curtain falls. So they are chained by the neck to Sheldon. It's not his fault. The shackles will fall at the end, when they don't need the structure anymore. I'm off to Damascus (metaphorically).

[legacy99]

If the writers end the season the way it's going now I definitely won't be buying the DVD set for this season

Plus I will have to decide if its worth my time and energy to keep watching. I don't know why the writers only think there's two characters worth writing for

[SRAM]

I'll still watch, but I have to admit some of my passion for the show has evaporated as a result of season 8. Also, I've become more critical of my favorite ship, especially as it pertains to Penny.

[Tonstar17]

If the writers end the season the way it's going now I definitely won't be buying the DVD set for this season

I wouldn't be buying the DVD. In fact with the writers officially downgrading leonard from alpha male the next step is to officially upgrade shamy to the main couple and my favourite for season 9 is to rename the show with the way the writers are taking it. The Sheldon Show. All will be well. ☺

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[karyshamy]

Karyshamy, you are right, on the little things they are okay, but those things are not the things needed for a long term relationship or marriage. Like Vasu says, Penny does treat him like a doormat, and he is especially pathetic in the way he responds to it this season, and yes she has always said the sex with him isn't great. Tonstar17 is right too, she won't talk money with him, she can't picture going on holiday with him (Are they going on separate honeymoons?), she doesn't listen to any advice from him (she goes to other people, mostly Sheldon) and she won't even plan or address a wedding. Why the hell are these two people engaged or even in a long term relationship? Remember i am a Lenny shipper and their relationship to me now just seems unnatural.

SRAM, I understand your point of view. But I wouldn't lose faith, the writers might surprise us in the finale. I believe they have lots of points to work on, in order to build a stronger relationship. And I'd also wait for the episode before coming to conclusions, maybe it won't be as bad as it seems. Maybe I'm too optimistic [emoji6]

[stardustmelody]

I, for the most part, have loved Season 8, but then I have been looking forward to seeing movement with Shamy and we have gotten a fair amount of movement forward with them so that is why I think this season worked for me.

 

However, on the flip side, I do feel that Leonard and Penny has been poorly written now for several years really.   Lenny are suffering from what Shamy fans felt they suffered from in S 6 and 7.  Lenny fans need to see Penny really show signs of being in love with Leonard.   Shamy fans needed to see Sheldon show signs of being in love with Amy in Seasons 6 & 7 because he was berating her a lot in those seasons.  I feel he has shown a fair amount of his love for Amy in S8 which is why I have enjoyed it.   But I do want to see the same with Lenny. I want to see Penny show real signs, not just words, that she loves Leonard.   We hear her say it, but none of her actions show it.   We need to see her actions show it more.   I think they did a few attempts this season, like the time that they were eating and she was asking Leonard about his work and tried hard to show him she was interested.   But for some reason, the way they write the couple has fallen flat.  It never seems to feel genuine when it comes to Penny's actions toward Leonard.   I think her constant put down of him is a big part of the issue.   

 

I will say that likewise I feel that they need to show what Leonard sees in Penny that he likes other than her good looks and sex.   I mean he is put down by her all the time...so does he enjoy that?  Maybe he does.  But it just comes across that he has created an "ideal" of her and part of me feels that neither really know  each other inside enough to even have a conversation about her career decision doubts.   Penny should not have had to go to Sheldon, but should have felt that she could go to Leonard about the audition and get some objectivity from him.   Yes he may have a bias and it is okay for him to even state so, but he is also a scientist and knows objectivity so he could put his biases asides for her and show her some objectivity so they can talk it through and leave her to decide based on their discussions.   I guess I just feel they constantly show a broken relationship when they have her run to Sheldon all the time for things.    

 

And yes, Sheldon has gone to Penny for advice, but he does it far less often than she runs to him.   He usually gathers advice from everyone in the gang first, not just Penny, and then goes with what he wanted in the first place (ignoring all of them).  So in that regard they treat advice quite different.

 

I  feel her running to get validation from Sheldon tells me she values and cares more about Sheldon's opinion and trusts him more than she does her own fiance,  Leonard.    This is where I think the writers have a really sticky issue because they have said over and over that they don't want a Sheldon/Penny pairing, yet they walk a thin line when they have Penny run to Sheldon all the time.   I honestly don't think they ever want to go there with the two and this season they made bold steps with Sheldon that they won't be going there, but they still have work to do when it comes to Penny and also her interactions with Leonard.   Show us why she is with him other than to have a whipping post.  

 

Maybe S9 will be all about that.  Maybe we will see her excited about wedding planning and excited to start her life with Leonard, etc.   But this season I think has been a real downer for Lenny as a couple.  While they are in a good place over all and getting along, etc., it is more like two circles spinning, and occasionally intersecting, but for the most part they are living their lives not much like a unit.   

 

I will say one thing, I am always amazed at how MUCH story those writers can get out in an 18-20 min show each week though.  They really are pretty amazing in that regard.   But it also ends up costing that some couples sit on back burner while others are revving up a bit and then they all take a step right and the next couple rev's up, etc.   It must be challenging to try and move them all at once so they do a fairly decent job given the little air time they have each week.   I do appreciate their efforts and I suspect we will see some of the issues I talked about addressed in S9.   I just feel that this year their focus was on to focus on Sheldon getting some career movement forward and relationship movement forward with Amy.  Penny's season is likely coming in S9.

[Tonstar17]

Or even better. The Sheldon and his Minions Show.

[MTBigBangTheoryFan]

This hasn't been my favorite Season or the best but I Will still buy Season 8 DVD.. I have 1-7 and not to buy the rest of the seasons would make my BBT collection feel incomplete. One I buy one seasons of a TV Show I have to buy all of of the seasons or else it does not feel complete.

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[SRAM]

Or even better. The Sheldon and his Minions Show.

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LOL

I like Amy so I like Shamy and I am glad we have seen some real movement with them and I hope they don't regress in the last few episode. I don't even think Shamy has had an impact on Lenny this season. I just feel no love from the writers when it comes to Lenny, they seem to not care and they do treat them as minions to Sheldon, this season especially.

[Tonstar17]

I, for the most part, have loved Season 8, but then I have been looking forward to seeing movement with Shamy and we have gotten a fair amount of movement forward with them so that is why I think this season worked for me.

However, on the flip side, I do feel that Leonard and Penny has been poorly written now for several years really. Lenny are suffering from what Shamy fans felt they suffered from in S 6 and 7. Lenny fans need to see Penny really show signs of being in love with Leonard. Shamy fans needed to see Sheldon show signs of being in love with Amy in Seasons 6 & 7 because he was berating her a lot in those seasons. I feel he has shown a fair amount of his love for Amy in S8 which is why I have enjoyed it. But I do want to see the same with Lenny. I want to see Penny show real signs, not just words, that she loves Leonard. We hear her say it, but none of her actions show it. We need to see her actions show it more. I think they did a few attempts this season, like the time that they were eating and she was asking Leonard about his work and tried hard to show him she was interested. But for some reason, the way they write the couple has fallen flat. It never seems to feel genuine when it comes to Penny's actions toward Leonard. I think her constant put down of him is a big part of the issue.

I will say that likewise I feel that they need to show what Leonard sees in Penny that he likes other than her good looks and sex. I mean he is put down by her all the time...so does he enjoy that? Maybe he does. But it just comes across that he has created an "ideal" of her and part of me feels that neither really know each other inside enough to even have a conversation about her career decision doubts. Penny should not have had to go to Sheldon, but should have felt that she could go to Leonard about the audition and get some objectivity from him. Yes he may have a bias and it is okay for him to even state so, but he is also a scientist and knows objectivity so he could put his biases asides for her and show her some objectivity so they can talk it through and leave her to decide based on their discussions. I guess I just feel they constantly show a broken relationship when they have her run to Sheldon all the time for things.

And yes, Sheldon has gone to Penny for advice, but he does it far less often than she runs to him. He usually gathers advice from everyone in the gang first, not just Penny, and then goes with what he wanted in the first place (ignoring all of them). So in that regard they treat advice quite different.

I feel her running to get validation from Sheldon tells me she values and cares more about Sheldon's opinion and trusts him more than she does her own fiance, Leonard. This is where I think the writers have a really sticky issue because they have said over and over that they don't want a Sheldon/Penny pairing, yet they walk a thin line when they have Penny run to Sheldon all the time. I honestly don't think they ever want to go there with the two and this season they made bold steps with Sheldon that they won't be going there, but they still have work to do when it comes to Penny and also her interactions with Leonard. Show us why she is with him other than to have a whipping post.

Maybe S9 will be all about that. Maybe we will see her excited about wedding planning and excited to start her life with Leonard, etc. But this season I think has been a real downer for Lenny as a couple. While they are in a good place over all and getting along, etc., it is more like two circles spinning, and occasionally intersecting, but for the most part they are living their lives not much like a unit.

I will say one thing, I am always amazed at how MUCH story those writers can get out in an 18-20 min show each week though. They really are pretty amazing in that regard. But it also ends up costing that some couples sit on back burner while others are revving up a bit and then they all take a step right and the next couple rev's up, etc. It must be challenging to try and move them all at once so they do a fairly decent job given the little air time they have each week. I do appreciate their efforts and I suspect we will see some of the issues I talked about addressed in S9. I just feel that this year their focus was on to focus on Sheldon getting some career movement forward and relationship movement forward with Amy. Penny's season is likely coming in S9.

You just have to look at the lenny thread to see how disenchanted Lenny fans are. no traffic these days. I was writing a lenny fanfic but had to stop because I coundn't think of anything great or positive about lenny. I feel no love from them. Penny cares more about sheldon than she does Leonard. Shamy and lenny fans should be worried about this development and why the writers keep denying it but keep promoting it. If it wasn't for this forum I probably would have given up on the show a while ago.

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[Chrismo]

Star, I think the difference is Lenny lost something they had..For Shamy season 6 and 7 they're was never any thing they lost they had before.

[tallin]

I don't think Lenny being in the background has much to do with Shamy... after all there have been like 45-50 plots? And Shamy plots could be like 8-9? (guessing)... There was more than enough space for them... writers decided not to used it because...well, insert your reason. And it's not even about the plots, at this time every little scene which shows they are in a good place makes me smile, even if it's just a helicopter. I agree there are problems with their portray this year. I had a feeling like writers let them move from each other too far away. And it's not about being in the same room, but the whole package...Penny running for advices to Sheldon, Penny not appreciating Leonard enough, Leonard constant struggling in debating Penny's career choices, and well, a lot of things... But in the first place, I think they both need to work on themselves. Try to solve their own insecurities and expectations, and mainly return to the base of their relationship THE FRIENDSHIP. I'm not talking about break up of course, but writers need to look back to what get these characters together in the first place and that was pure mutual friendship and understanding. They were talking every issue with each other, there was mutual admiration and respect, enjoyment to be in each other presence constantly. It's still there, but it was just shown ON screen so little, I think writers should think about it, after all they made the step to get them married and that means something. This whole situation is for me a lot similar to situation in season 6 and 7 with Shamy, their relationship started actually in many ways like Lenny - deep friendship and understanding, in S 6,7 they gave them so much problems and so little really happy, fun time together, that I almost forget why they are even together. But I think they realized their mistake and in this season a lot of their pure friendship came back, and I think it's writers own lesson they should apply on Lenny as well. I hope there are great times coming because after watching Colonization ep today, it just reminded me how I really miss these guys at their best.

But still I think there is silver lining... If everything would be just perfect, no problem to be solved, no development to be made as  characters, or a couple, Lenny would became just some stalling couple without any interesting storyline. Perfection has stale aspect in it, imperfection has exciting aspect of something new. Writers need to have a space for them to grow, we still have at least two years to go. If you'll eat all of your Halloween candy  today, there will be no left for tomorrow

Oh, yes and as always, color it all in "my opinion." 

[Tonstar17]

18 episodes not once showed off her engagement ring or over the moon about it or any excitement about been engaged from their friends or talked about it. If I started watching from s8x1 I wouldn't even know they are engaged unless I spotted the ring because the only time it was brought up was when she took it off at work. Really shows commitment for lenny from the writers.

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[Martin Pollard]

Can I get some likes from people who DON'T watch this show filtered through their favorite ship? I can't be the only one. Probably why I don't fret about the sky falling with every episode and taping report.

[Tonstar17]

Can I get some likes from people who DON'T watch this show filtered through their favorite ship? I can't be the only one. Probably why I don't fret about the sky falling with every episode and taping report.

Hey. I like to have a moan. Doctors orders. ☺

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[MTBigBangTheoryFan]

Can I get some likes from people who DON'T watch this show filtered through their favorite ship? I can't be the only one. Probably why I don't fret about the sky falling with every episode and taping report.

Same here. As I stated before I dint watch for any particular couples. I like them all equally, I watch for The Entertainment

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[loriparis80]

Thanks for the info. Phanta!  

 

I really don't like Leonard's character feeling so insecure. He's a great guy, he's cute, smart, sweet and funny and he's shown that he can stand his ground. I wish he would put his foot down with Sheldon more. I love Shelnard, but sometimes I feel like Leonard puts up with too much crap. I want him to be confident and worthy of love and feel like anyone would be happy to be with him. Darn Beverly and her lack of love and affection.

 

I get that these are fictional characters, but I've enjoyed watching them all grow throughout the years and I just hate to see great characters being wasted or belittled as a running gag. imho

[Chrismo]

Can I get some likes from people who DON'T watch this show filtered through their favorite ship? I can't be the only one. Probably why I don't fret about the sky falling with every episode and taping report.

I will say one episode discussing Lenny moving in together or getting married would help a lot of Lenny fans.

[Tonstar17]

I will say one episode discussing Lenny moving in together or getting married would help a lot of Lenny fans.

That will be nice. But penny has to discuss it with Sheldon first. ☺

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[stardustmelody]

Martin, I don't feel the sky is falling and actually feel like the episode that taped will be just fine.   Will it be likely be a favorite and one to remember, probably not, but  many episodes are great episodes but not memorable as well.   So not sure where you are coming from there.  

 

I think what was being discussed was more a trend than a specific episode.   The writers did create these couples for a reason and they want fans to back them, but if they have created a gap in a couple that is as noticeable as it was with Shamy in S6-7 and currently with Lenny (it has been actually building for several seasons), then it becomes a problem.   I think  what is being discussed here, is not dissatisfaction with individual episodes.   It isn't even that it makes us say we will quit watching or threatening to do so..it is really saying how it could improve what the writers were attempting to do with generating fan interest in these couples.   

 

I personally feel that they sometimes go to the extreme to contrast and build to move forward as they did with Shamy.  This season they have been doing well with Shamy because the previous two seasons were such a negative contrast that it has been pleasant to see the actually enjoying each other again.   So they may be doing the same with Lenny right now....partially because the

real motivator with the writers is to slow them down so they can give them story for the next couple of seasons.   But sadly, sometimes the manner they choose to slow them down does not sit well with fans.  In this case, Penny has become more independent, yes, but also very indifferent toward Leonard, the man she is supposed to want to marry.   It hasn't set well with some.  It is okay to slow them, but still show them as happy and very in love, with an occasional "look at that, it would be perfect for our wedding" or some sort of indication that they are still engaged.  But there hasn't been much of that this season.  Instead it has been Penny doing her thing or running to Sheldon for things with very little regard for Leonard other than to put him down in a negative fashion, even to constantly reminding him that she always wins.   She is the "alpha" in their relationship and while the episode was about Sheldon/Leonard, it in a way shows how there are issues in the Leonard/Penny relationship is as well because she treats him how Leonard claims Sheldon treats him that upsets Leonard.   

[Tonstar17]

Leonard is the bad guy now like when penny got cheated on and Leonard was always there for her. Now she's with Leonard he's the bad fish.

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[legacy99]

So Sheldon's the one that helps her now kind of sad. Maybe Leonard does need to move on. bring back Alex but Penny would get jealous again and we would be back where we started

[Martin Pollard]

I will say one episode discussing Lenny moving in together or getting married would help a lot of Lenny fans.

No, it won't, because they'll just move the goalposts and find something else to complain about.

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[Chrismo]

That will be nice. But penny has to discuss it with Sheldon first. ☺

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I think at times too much is made of Penny's and Sheldon's friendship. It's not obvious but I do think looking stupid in front of Leonard bothers her. That's why i don't think she's always asks Leonard for his opinion. I think Leonard at this point wants Penny to keep her job thus Penny tricked him into going along with the audition to begin with by mentioning money. Logic hasn't always been her best friend. In regards to Alex I don't think she's coming back but I know I mentioned this earlier but a Leonard/ Emily friendship would be more effective. Penny knew Alex liked Leonard but Leonard and Emily hanging together would bother both Penny and Raj.

[Strawberry PopTart Fan]

there is pathetic leonard again.. can't even eat what he likes... no backbone at all...

and penny does not even want his advice... awful couple....recipe for disaster....

no redeeming qualities in leonard are present... penny should break up with him....

Your analysis is so harsh and vitriolic, it brought tears to the eyes of this Leonard fan.   I wonder why you have Leonard as your avitar and did you ever like him? 

In Season 1 Leonard was a short, timid, asthmatic, lactose intolerant nerd who often ended his sentences with  a question mark. In Season 8 he's still a short, timid, asthmatic, lactose intolerant nerd who has grown a lot since Season 1. He's more confident, more assertive and more socially adept.Will he ever confront his enemies and tormentors like the Hulk? No, confrontation isn't easy or natural for everyone and some people have trouble standing up for themselves.Other people snap at the very least provocation, wrecking havoc along their path with their rage. Some may find the perfect balance over a lifetime, but it's tricky IMO. I see many redeeming qualities in Leonard which is why Penny loves him.He's sweet, loving, generous, loyal, funny, cute and very, very smart.   She fought the attraction for years, but she was drawn to him, as they say, like a moth to a flame. Are they done and doomed? I don't think so and I'm not attending the Lenny funeral.

In terms of being a character who helps the story work, I think Leonard's nature, his character traits make him a perfect roommate for Sheldon. Who else?

Finally, I think we could make mince meat out of any of the characters by showcasing their imperfections, which we know the writers usually exaggerate for the joke.