S8 Discussion Thread

[Tensor]

But they can also be funny with any of the other actors. It's not as if their talent is being wasted just because they're in scenes with other actors, or that they can only show their acting chops in scenes with each other.

It's a waste if you like seeing them acting against each other.

[Nogravitasatall]

But they can also be funny with any of the other actors. It's not as if their talent is being wasted just because they're in scenes with other actors, or that they can only show their acting chops in scenes with each other.

But they do not get to show their talents as a duo. They are always otherwise paired. And if they had scenes together they could do things that are not about sex or whiney stuff. And still be FUNNY.

(ironical caps engaged)

[djsurrey]

It's a waste if you like seeing them acting against each other.

 

I guess, but I'd think the writers are going the way they think gets the most laughs and attracts the biggest audience at this time. These days they seem to like to play Leonard off Sheldon and Penny off Sheldon a lot.

 

They can't possibly please everyone all the time since the audience is so big and diverse.

[Itwasdestined]

My only objection to the whole upcoming episode via the taping report was that I just didn't see the point to the Sheldon giving advice to Penny scene as a substitute to a scene with Leonard discussing it. While in the previous yet to be seen episode re the podcast with Wheaton, yes Lenny had a discussion about the audition but it was a forced on air discussion that didn't allow them to resolve it as a couple properly. It might have been funny and the Shenny advice scene might be funny but in Season 7s Lenny disagreement over acting, at least Leonard got to explain himself and resolve the difference of opinion. In this case, it was shown that Penny just considered Leonard was going to be typical Leonard and wanted Sheldon to help her decide instead. It meant an entire episode about something involving the Lenny relationship being resolved without Lenny even being seen together. ( Yes Shamy was absent too, but they have had MORE ( excuse the caps) than their fair share of screen time this season. I think that is part of the Lenny shipper debate

I think people here know I like all the characters. I love Sheldon/Penny scenes. I love Lenny scenes. I love anything that makes me laugh. I don't think Leonard ano Penny have been relegated to secondary status as individual characters. They have been front and centre in plenty of episodes. And they have been funny with other characters. Lenny and Penny together have been relegated, though. and while I agree phanta that Johnny and Kaley can and do act well with others in the show, I think the opportunities for them to act as classic Leonard and Lenny together has been written out of the show at the moment. sometimes, phanta, you have a tendency to dismiss Lenny scenes for alternative scenes that are funnier. I think, and I think harder core Lennies do too, that writers tend to not write Lenny as funny when they could. There is no reason why Lenny couldn't be as funny as Sheldon dominated scenes If the writers went there. For some reason, they're not and seem to be putting more effort into funny Sheldon and penny scenes ( and to me, not all Lenny fans, they are funny) . I think that is a big part of the problem. Me, I still love the episodes, but I get why the lack of Lenny is really messing with the enjoyment factor of others.

[djsurrey]

Is it possible that conflict generates more humor than bliss?

[Nogravitasatall]

Is it possible that conflict generates more humor than bliss?

Again, I don't think we are talking about mushy stuff. Here is a quick one... Penny could pick up Leonard's copy of "Time Enough for Love" and gets to page 385 before she notes its about a 1000 yo man but she still likes it.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Nogravitasatall

[Tensor]

I guess, but I'd think the writers are going the way they think gets the most laughs and attracts the biggest audience at this time.

That's probably true, but it means there are going to be people who are not happy.

 

These days they seem to like to play Leonard off Sheldon and Penny off Sheldon a lot.

And Amy off Sheldon, and Raj off Howardette, and anything except, for the most part, Leonard off of Penny.

 

They can't possibly please everyone all the time since the audience is so big and diverse.

None of us here are asking for them to please us all the time, just for some balance. That even those that ship Shamy have noticed the lack of Lenny this year should tell you how obvious it has become.

Is it possible that conflict generates more humor than bliss?

There wasn't any conflict between them with the body painting and that was funny.

[meka3000]

My only objection to the whole upcoming episode via the taping report was that I just didn't see the point to the Sheldon giving advice to Penny scene as a substitute to a scene with Leonard discussing it. While in the previous yet to be seen episode re the podcast with Wheaton, yes Lenny had a discussion about the audition but it was a forced on air discussion that didn't allow them to resolve it as a couple properly. It might have been funny and the Shenny advice scene might be funny but in Season 7s Lenny disagreement over acting, at least Leonard got to explain himself and resolve the difference of opinion.

 

On the bolded part, if we go by the taping; for part of the arguement they were under the assumption that Wil had turned off the podcast, and that they were no longer on the air (even though he lied).

 

To play devils advocate for a second I agree with Chrismo that sometimes Penny fears talking to Leonard about stuff like this, as it makes her feel dumb in front of him sometimes.  Emotionally Sheldon has nothing at stake with this, where as Leonard emotionally DOES have something at stake in this; sometimes Leonard can emotionally let his feelings cloud his judgement.  Remember the Thanksgiving episode, when Penny screwed up his agitation towards her was a little unnecessary.  Yes I get he let this get to him because of their previous proposals, but she wasn't out to get him.

 

I don't hate him or her over this.  I think their reactions in these moments are born out of their insecurities.  Ultimately I think this is something BOTH have to work on, before they move forward.

[meka3000]

But I think the writers have a good feel for when to concentrate on the funny, when to make light of things--even romance--and when to get serious.

Since it's a sitcom, the serious moments are going to be farther apart.  There's not necessarily going to be a lot of swoony romance that isn't punctuated by something funny or smart-alecky or even downright rude.

 

I don't know about that, I can't speak for everyone but alot of the episodes this year haven't been Laugh out Loud funny as they have in previous years.  Sure there's been some episodes here and there that have left me feeling fully satisfied (The Prom Equivalency, The Agitation Approximation, and The Troll Manifestation just to name a few), but there's been alot of dogs for me this year as well (the season premiere, the first pitch insufficiency, and the clean room infiltration, to name a few) and other ones that feel middle of the road.

 

Yes Leonard/Penny is one of my favorite things about this show, but so is the fact that it's usually funny.  An episode like The Parking Spot Escalation doesn't have any Lenny in it, but it's still drop dead hilarious.  There's been little Lenny content this season, but the lack of great comedy writing has also been a problem this season imo.

 

Also reading some of the taping reports and seeing the final results on screen; it feels like there's been ALOT of second guessing themselves going on this season.

 

There is little this season that I would replay. I got to double figures often in previous years. Maybe it's my overexposure but more concretely it's because of the content of the show has changed. And I don't care about the ending. That's one episode. It's really about the ongoing story being told. The show has sagged in the middle regarding the content that has engaged me in the prior seven seasons. AND Frodo didn't just hop on an eagle and fly to the Cracks of Doom. It was what happened in between the start and the finish that was interesting. The end is the least important part of a TV show, and most stories. It's the journey to the end that we care about.

 

I don't know, majority agree that The Two Towers was the weakest of the LOTR trilogy. Though I care about the ending, almost all great endings have GOOD BUILDUP.

Edited March 28, 2015 by meka3000

[djsurrey]

None of us here are asking for them to please us all the time, just for some balance. That even those that ship Shamy have noticed the lack of Lenny this year should tell you how obvious it has become.

 

A lot of the first 7 seasons revolved around Leonard's and Penny's relationships. Particularly with each other but some with different significant others too.

Perhaps balance is having a season or two focused elsewhere.

[Tensor]

A lot of the first 7 seasons revolved around Leonard's and Penny's relationships.

Can you define a lot for me, quantitively?

 

Particularly with each other but some with different significant others too. Perhaps balance is having a season or two focused elsewhere.

For example, as I pointed out in another thread, Season Six, which was mostly Leonard and Penny (18 episodes with either plots or major time along together), still had 14 episodes with either Shamy plots or major scenes where it was just Sheldon and Amy. Leonard and Penny won't even get half that this year. You want to explain how that is balance?

Or how about season four, you know where Leonard dated Priya, Penny dated no one, Howard and Bernadette dated and got engaged, and Sheldon and Amy's relationship took significant steps forward. You want to explain how this season's lack of Leonard and Penny is somehow as balanced as season four?

[vasu]

the problem is simple... leonard's character does not seem to interest the writers anymore... there are hardly any episodes about his character for the past few seasons.... he is just simply a character who is just there that's it.... if any of the other *main* characters have a big plot...leonard's character is the one who suffers the most and gets the least amount of screen time.....

 

howard and even amy seem to be getting a lot more importance and plots that leonard.....

 

and if they write something ...mostly they go for him acting pathetic or being bullied by either sheldon or penny ..... that's it....

 

his character is clearly second tier..........probably they pay the actor same as the other two because they did not want to make it look bad or they just have too much money ...lol......

Edited March 28, 2015 by vasu

[Itwasdestined]

Vasu, I can accept your premise that there are less stories about Leonard specifically but I can't agree he gets the least screen time. Less with Penny yes, but he has been involved in quite a few plots this season involving all four guys, several revolving around the Shelnard friendship and still at least four major Lenny plots. Even Leonard the scientist has had a bigger run this year than for a long time.

Definitely less than Sheldon, like everyone else but I don't think it's anywhere near as diminished as you believe. But, considering that the majority of your posts consists of the Leonard is diminished theme, I doubt you'll agree. Forums are created for disagreement.

[vasu]

Vasu, I can accept your premise that there are less stories about Leonard specifically but I can't agree he gets the least screen time. Less with Penny yes, but he has been involved in quite a few plots this season involving all four guys, several revolving around the Shelnard friendship and still at least four major Lenny plots. Even Leonard the scientist has had a bigger run this year than for a long time.

Definitely less than Sheldon, like everyone else but I don't think it's anywhere near as diminished as you believe. But, considering that the majority of your posts consists of the Leonard is diminished theme, I doubt you'll agree. Forums are created for disagreement.

 

if you read my previous post...I clearly mentioned when other *main* characters are involved in a big plot...his is the character who suffers the most and has the least amount of screen time......

 

you can clearly see this in the episodes whenever sheldon and penny have a main plot... I don't think I have to give any examples to this.....if you want one.... see season 7 premier......leonard hardly is in the episode at all....... there are many other episodes where he gets the same screen time as raj or amy or bernie.......  but there are very few instances of this happening to penny's character and none of this happening to sheldon's character.....

 

anyway you won't agree and clearly i won't agree

[meka3000]

and if they write something ...mostly they go for him acting pathetic or being bullied by either sheldon or penny ..... that's it....

 

his character is clearly second tier..........probably they pay the actor same as the other two because they did not want to make it look bad or they just have too much money ...lol......

 

How was he pathetic or bullied in the episodes FOCUSED on the scientific theory HE came up with? 

 

No they payed Johnny 1 MILLION because his character (like Sheldon and Penny) is NOT REPLACEABLE in the grand scheme of things in terms of what viewers have invested in these characters.  It's why the actors that play Howard and Raj couldn't talk CBS into $1 Million an episode, cause in the grand scheme of things, their characters are not ones viewers have a ton of investment in what happens to them.

 

 Your talk is alot of hyperbole with NOTHING of substance to show for it.

you can clearly see this in the episodes whenever sheldon and penny have a main plot... I don't think I have to give any examples to this.....if you want one.... see season 7 premier......leonard hardly is in the episode at all.......

 

That's a piss poor example since his character's screen time was minimal BY DESIGN in that episode.  Also look how depressed Sheldon and Penny were WITHOUT him there?

Edited March 28, 2015 by meka3000

[vasu]

How was he pathetic or bullied in the episodes FOCUSED on the scientific theory HE came up with? 

 

No they payed Johnny 1 MILLION because his character (like Sheldon and Penny) is NOT REPLACEABLE in the grand scheme of things in terms of what viewers have invested in these characters.  It's why the actors that play Howard and Raj couldn't talk CBS into $1 Million an episode, cause in the grand scheme of things, their characters are not ones viewers have a ton of investment in what happens to them.

 

 Your talk is alot of hyperbole with NOTHING of substance to show for it.

I think the writers could easily do an episode without leonard...but with the other main two missing ....I hardly think so....

and I think they pay him 1 million because of the reason that if they did'nt it reflect quite badly on the actor who plays the character...

 

That's a piss poor example since his character's screen time was minimal BY DESIGN.  Also look how depressed Sheldon and Penny were WITHOUT him there?

well i don't think so...nothing to do BY DESIGN

howard went to space and a lot of him was shown...

sheldon went out last season and this season started with a lot of sheldon....

but when leonard went to sea.....a lot of sheldon and penny was shown......its quite simple you know.....easy to understand...

some one mentioned cbs shows ads of big bang with only sheldon and penny in them......if this is not a clear hint...then I don't know what is...

Anyway anyone who really thinks Leonard's character has not been diminished in the past few seasons must be kidding...its glaringly obvious....

Edited March 28, 2015 by vasu

[Nogravitasatall]

...

I don't know, majority agree that The Two Towers was the weakest of the LOTR trilogy. Though I care about the ending, almost all great endings have GOOD BUILDUP.

My point is that the L/P story has just been largely abandoned this season. It has a big "To be continued" sign sub-textually stuck to its back. The story that date dare not speak its name, apparently. They haven't been doing much of anything. It's my sense of the absence of them as a story element in the show that I have been trying to articulate. I don't care anymore whether they gush over each other or not. I have not observed them doing ANYTHING TOGETHER that was not just spearcarrying or incidental. It's a real thing. See my avatar. They were literally background in that episode. But ces't la vie. Maybe things will turn around for them in terms of story. But they have lost momentum. So the BUILDUP will have to start over. If it comes. And it will be as delayed as possible.

(And i think stories in serialised TV happen all through the run of the show. A great finish is just 21 minutes out around 50,000 of them. TBBT not a feature film and it's not a novel. The end will tie things up but it's not what the show is aiming for. Ideally they want to keep milking the cash cow.. That's why we have spin-offs.)

I like The Two Towers, by the way.

[Itwasdestined]

if you read my previous post...I clearly mentioned when other *main* characters are involved in a big plot...his is the character who suffers the most and has the least amount of screen time......

you can clearly see this in the episodes whenever sheldon and penny have a main plot... I don't think I have to give any examples to this.....if you want one.... see season 7 premier......leonard hardly is in the episode at all....... there are many other episodes where he gets the same screen time as raj or amy or bernie....... but there are very few instances of this happening to penny's character and none of this happening to sheldon's character.....

anyway you won't agree and clearly i won't agree

Yeah I read your post. A couple of Shenny centric episodes and an episode Leonard was away on his own in the North Sea are probably not enough examples in a court of law to prove your case - but of course on the interwebs we are free to cherry pick. I'm not going to argue that Sheldon gets most screen time. But Leonard gets as much as Penny, one or two examples notwithstanding. Just not necessarily together. Which it doesn't have to be. Would be nice if it was though. But I digress.

[vasu]

Yeah I read your post. A couple of Shenny centric episodes and an episode Leonard was away on his own in the North Sea are probably not enough examples in a court of law to prove your case - but of course on the interwebs we are free to cherry pick.

I'm not going to argue that Sheldon gets most screen time.

But Leonard gets as much as Penny, one or two examples notwithstanding. Just not necessarily together. Which it doesn't have to be. Would be nice if it was though. But I digress.

tell me an episode in the recent seasons...where penny is given the same amount of screen time as leonard in few of the sheldon-penny or shenny as you are calling them episodes...

leave penny.. I think howard has got more plots and meatier stuff in the recent seasons that leonard ....

you see how good was howard's trip to space from his characters plots perspective and how leonard's trip was....lol

any reason you can think of cbs showing previews features sheldon and penny but not leonard ?? I can think of one...they feel sheldon and penny are far more interesting characters than leonard and clearly the writing supports that....

Edited March 28, 2015 by vasu

[Itwasdestined]

tell me an episode in the recent seasons...where penny is given the same amount of screen time as leonard in few of the sheldon-penny or shenny as you are calling them episodes...

leave penny.. I think howard has got more plots and meatier stuff in the recent seasons that leonard ....

you see how good was howard's trip to space from his characters plots perspective and how leonard's trip was....lol

any reason you can think of cbs showing previews features sheldon and penny but not leonard ?? I can think of one...they feel sheldon and penny are far more interesting characters than leonard and clearly the writing supports that....

I think you're arguing about things we agree on now. I already said when there are Penny/Sheldon episodes they dominate screen time. A sizeable group here, me included, have expressed disappointment with the Leonard North Sea trip. I said in my first post Leonard's big plot quota is not as big as it should be. Yes Howard got a good run with the space plot in comparison but faded a bit after that ( and in case you bring it up, they didn't plan for his front and centre recent episodes - tragedy brought that on ).

But I think you're moving the goal posts now. I thought I was discussing Season 8 with you. You seem to be stretching it back to last few seasons now to make your case. I'm out. Hope you find something in the last few eps to enjoy.

[vasu]

I think you're arguing about things we agree on now. I already said when there are Penny/Sheldon episodes they dominate screen time. A sizeable group here, me included, have expressed disappointment with the Leonard North Sea trip. I said in my first post Leonard's big plot quota is not as big as it should be. Yes Howard got a good run with the space plot in comparison but faded a bit after that ( and in case you bring it up, they didn't plan for his front and centre recent episodes - tragedy brought that on ).

But I think you're moving the goal posts now. I thought I was discussing Season 8 with you. You seem to be stretching it back to last few seasons now to make your case. I'm out. Hope you find something in the last few eps to enjoy.

things we agree on?? i thought u were saying I was cherry picking...

i did not strech anything.... in almost all of my posts where this was disucssed I used the past few seasons phrase and not just this season....so i don't know why are you suddenly have an issue with that

and saying the something happened behind the scenes lead of howard getting more plots is not reasonable.... what happens outside does not relate to what happens on the show...

they could have easily not written that in the show......if an actress gets pregnant or an actor/actress get married...they might not write that into the show....

so clearly it was their choice ....

Edited March 28, 2015 by vasu

[djsurrey]

Can you define a lot for me, quantitively?

 

For example, as I pointed out in another thread, Season Six, which was mostly Leonard and Penny (18 episodes with either plots or major time along together), still had 14 episodes with either Shamy plots or major scenes where it was just Sheldon and Amy. Leonard and Penny won't even get half that this year. You want to explain how that is balance?

Or how about season four, you know where Leonard dated Priya, Penny dated no one, Howard and Bernadette dated and got engaged, and Sheldon and Amy's relationship took significant steps forward. You want to explain how this season's lack of Leonard and Penny is somehow as balanced as season four?

 

I was not talking about how this season balances against others each one at a time. Over the previous 7 seasons Leonard has pined over Penny, been in and out of a relationship with Penny and back in it again. He has dated Lesly Winkle, Stephanie, Priya, Alice and had hook ups with Dr Plimpton, and Mrs. Latham. Even when Leonard was not dating Penny he was often fixated on her wondering what she really meant by stuff she said.

When not dating Leonard, Penny saw Kurt, Zack, Dave Underhill and others. She had a hookup with Raj.

In the first couple of seasons all the relation ship stuff was about Leonard and Penny together or apart. Now that L/P are engaged the writers have let their relationship(s) not be front and center.

[meka3000]

well i don't think so...nothing to do BY DESIGN

howard went to space and a lot of him was shown...

sheldon went out last season and this season started with a lot of sheldon....

but when leonard went to sea.....a lot of sheldon and penny was shown......its quite simple you know.....easy to understand...

some one mentioned cbs shows ads of big bang with only sheldon and penny in them......if this is not a clear hint...then I don't know what is...

Anyway anyone who really thinks Leonard's character has not been diminished in the past few seasons must be kidding...its glaringly obvious....

 

Again, WHAT is your arguement for WHY CBS wouldn't pay Raj and Howards actors 1 million, but Leonard's actor?

 

Howard went to space, NOTHING but comedy was done with him.  

 

Sheldon's required more because of the way he exited, by not telling ANYONE his plans.

 

Leonard's exit didn't require as much, because he told people his plans.  Also when he returns in season 7 he has focus in 6 out of 8 episodes in the first third of the season.

 

All these things are circumstantial.  You just want to look at things in a black and white manner.  Things aren't THAT SIMPLE.

 

It's not the hours you put in, it's what you put in to the hours.

and saying the something happened behind the scenes lead of howard getting more plots is not reasonable.... what happens outside does not relate to what happens on the show...

they could have easily not written that in the show......if an actress gets pregnant or an actor/actress get married...they might not write that into the show....

so clearly it was their choice ....

 

PLEASE You honestly think they would've chose to kill Howard's mother off IF her actress was still alive today?  Your stretching for a point and you know it.

Edited March 28, 2015 by meka3000

[rachelshamyfan]

ThE CaPs ArE bACk

[vasu]

PLEASE You honestly think they would've chose to kill Howard's mother off IF her actress was still alive today?  Your stretching for a point and you know it.

what ridiculous argument is this??

they killed prof proton off ?? is the actor playing him dead....no...

All I said was that it was their choice whether to kill the character off or not.....and they went ahead with it...

Edited March 28, 2015 by vasu