S8 Discussion Thread

[legacy99]

Having a hard time understanding how so many people could give an excellent rating to this espisode

[Itwasdestined]

The reason Leonard said nothing two years ago is because two years ago the writers hadn't even thought of this happening. Hell, 2 months ago they probably hadn't thought of this happening. But now it's happened and we wait for it to be resolved. And as of this moment the writers have no idea of what they are going to do with it. So probably not worth worrying about it for months either.

[hokie3457]

The reason Leonard said nothing two years ago is because two years ago the writers hadn't even thought of this happening. Hell, 2 months ago they probably hadn't thought of this happening. But now it's happened and we wait for it to be resolved. And as of this moment the writers have no idea of what they are going to do with it. So probably not worth worrying about it for months either.

Ahhh. Perspective!

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[djsurrey]

So he should've said nothing, and go in to the marriage tainted?  I won't disagree on speaking up sooner, but not speaking up PERIOD?  I don't agree with that at all.

...

 

And cheating?  Leonard made it clear that he put a stop to it.  Also NOTHING in the episode indicates who instigated the kiss.  So as far as I'm concerned, Leonard's biggest crimes are doing something stupid while drunk (which we DON'T have a clear idea on everything that happened), and not speaking up about it sooner.

 

Exactly. Nothing. If it was a big enough event to mention he should have said when he got back from the north sea. It would likely be forgotten by now.

 

At this point if it is bothering Leonard he should have got some counseling.

 

People make mistakes. In the years since the incident Leonard has been true and loving to Penny. Bringing this up now does not make him less tainted it just gives her something to be anxious about. Leonard still looks good compared to other guys Penny has dated in this regard. He just is not the gumby she thought he was. Oh wait. That is exactly what he said he was. Putty in some party girls hands; well until he stopped it.

Edited May 8, 2015 by djsurrey

[puremorning]

okay what I want from the first episode of season 9 is Penny&Amy eating ice creams and singing "everybody hurts" really loud. Preferably while Amy is playing the harp.

 

I feel like these heart breaks will get Amy&Penny more closer.

[vasu]

okay what I want from the first episode of season 9 is Penny&Amy eating ice creams and singing "everybody hurts" really loud. Preferably while Amy is playing the harp.

 

I feel like these heart breaks will get Amy&Penny more closer.

No it would be Sheldon and Penny getting closer....

my guess is they will have a heart to heart in the next season premier.... all the steps for that episode seemed to be laid in this....

[puremorning]

No it would be Sheldon and Penny getting closer....

my guess is they will have a heart to heart in the next season premier.... all the steps for that episode seemed to be laid in this....

 

but they have already did that many times and they are already close. same with sheldon&leonard.

 

I think it will be more interesting to see other friendships growing.

[phantagrae]

The way the interaction unfolded I can see why Leonard told Penny but I think it was the wrong thing to do.  All he accomplished was unburdening himself and   shift burden and disappointment and anxiety over to Penny. It was not just bad timing it was also selfish.

 

I don't think it was selfish.  I think it would have been harder if the truth had come out at some later date and she realized he'd been hiding something from her all along.

And while Penny may be miffed about it, I don't think it's a matter of anxiety or burden that got shifted over to her.

She hadn't told him that she hid her engagement ring and got flirty with her clients until her back was against the wall.

While that may not rise to the same level as a drunken, regretted kiss, I don't think that it unduly burdened her.

 

Yeah, they're going to have to smooth it out, but it's obviously not a deal breaker.  I think it ruined the mood, but it's not something to break up over at this point in their lives.

 

And now that it's in the open it can be dealt with.  Maybe she'll make him pay some kind of pennance for it, or maybe she'll just forgive him because she loves him, but I don't think the solution would be to have kept it a secret.  The more the secret is kept, the more significance it may take on.  In fact, if it had come up when he first got back, they might have had some difficulty over it, but then by the time they got engaged, it would have been more water under the bridge.  But because he waited, then it seems like it was more serious, more worthy of hiding than it really was.

 

I think it's good that he confessed, though, admittedly, it was bad timing.  Even so, confession is better than lying, especially going in.

Having a hard time understanding how so many people could give an excellent rating to this espisode

 

Um, because it was good.  Not just cotton candy and bubble gum, but some serious stuff to be dealt with,as all human beings must do.

 

I think that it's good that the writers have given each couple (so to speak, with H/B/S) something to deal with going forward.  Growing pains, learning to stand up for oneself, committing to each other, or figuring out what commitment means, etc..

 

Good stuff.

[SRAM]

The reason Leonard said nothing two years ago is because two years ago the writers hadn't even thought of this happening. Hell, 2 months ago they probably hadn't thought of this happening. But now it's happened and we wait for it to be resolved. And as of this moment the writers have no idea of what they are going to do with it. So probably not worth worrying about it for months either.

That is a very good point, I do thing some of the extreme stuff that happens on the show, the changing canon and character inconsitancies is due to lack of planning ahead by the writers and it is getting worse as the show goes on.

[Tonstar17]

I think what Leonard did was cheating and it is also about crossing a line. Being faithful is pretty straightforward but a lot of posters here spend a huge amount of time and energy justifying cheating. it's probably at the lower end of the scale for most people but still doesn't take away the fact that it's cheating. Some could argue that it's just flirtation that got out of hand. A drunken snog on a party boat with lots of alcohol involved is not the same as having sex or even an affair. Having said that it's not a good sign and seems to suggest that Leonard is not secure and happy in his relationship with Penny as they have made us to believe. JMO.

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Edited May 8, 2015 by Tonstar17

[phantagrae]

That is a very good point, I do thing some of the extreme stuff that happens on the show, the changing canon and character inconsitancies is due to lack of planning ahead by the writers and it is getting worse as the show goes on.

 

Well, we don't know how many times any of the characters went to the bathroom over the past 8 years, but that doesn't mean that they didn't do it.

 

If Leonard was keeping a secret, then he was keeping a secret.  Yes, he couldn't have confessed it back then because the writers hadn't conceived of it then, but that doesn't mean that it's implausible.

 

Similarly, we don't know exactly when Leonard bought that ring, but he'd had it for some time.  Is that an inconsistency you disapprove of?  Since we didn't see him buy it, does that mean that him having it is changing canon?

 

I don't think the secret kiss interferes with canon and I don't see it as an indicator of declining quality of the writing.

 

I think that over the years any show is going to have these kinds of things--we've already gone through it with how the show finally settled into itself after the first season.  None of the characters were quite set in stone when the show first started--we had Leonard contemplating getting a cat when he felt rejected by Penny, saying that he was aware of Sheldon's allergies, and Sheldon anticipating Leonard getting a cat as a typical reaction.

But then a few years later, Sheldon is the one getting a cat (no allergies mentioned) and seeming oblivious to the idea of getting a cat as a substitute for a broken relationship.

 

I had more trouble with the pointless inconsistency about how old Sheldon was when his father died.

[ATOB]

Haven't seen the finale yet but I do wonder sometimes if TBBT do have scouts on this board.

I've been reading here (from some posters, not all) that Penny takes Leonard for granted and treats him like a mug. And lo, a magic wand is waved and Leonard has been unfaithful... That should certainly shake Penny out of her complacency.

Likewise, Sheldon is disrespectful and treats Amy like a doormat. She needs to grow a backbone (say some). Lo, Amy breaks up with Sheldon.

Weirdly though, although this is what these posters hoped for, none seem happy with this turn of events.

Perhaps these scouts read the Shenny sites too? After all, Leonard cheats on Penny, Amy breaks up with Sheldon because she realises he is not sexually attracted to her...... uh oh, I'm pretty sure I've read this scenario elsewhere!!!

[vasu]

Haven't seen the finale yet but I do wonder sometimes if TBBT do have scouts on this board.

I've been reading here (from some posters, not all) that Penny takes Leonard for granted and treats him like a mug. And lo, a magic wand is waved and Leonard has been unfaithful... That should certainly shake Penny out of her complacency.

Likewise, Sheldon is disrespectful and treats Amy like a doormat. She needs to grow a backbone (say some). Lo, Amy breaks up with Sheldon.

Weirdly though, although this is what these posters hoped for, none seem happy with this turn of events.

Perhaps these scouts read the Shenny sites too? After all, Leonard cheats on Penny, Amy breaks up with Sheldon because she realises he is not sexually attracted to her...... uh oh, I'm pretty sure I've read this scenario elsewhere!!!

It that is writers's reasoning for how to deal with Penny's complacency towards Leoanard.....that seems like a pretty pretty poor one at it...

However i don't think that is the case though....

clearly they were going for a *cliffhanger* ending....thats why so much drama...that arised out of nowhere....

why on earth would Penny want to marry leonard in vegas all alone....when one of her reason for delaying the marriage was the her brother was in prison or something.....

but I also don't understand why Penny even wants to marry leonard in the first place..

he is pathetic, whiner,insecure,needy....

lies about the engagement ring....even puts it in a tiffany box to pretend its from tiffany's.....it takes sheldon to leak the real story...

wants her to quit her job and go to acting so that he can feel better.......seriously who even thinks like this......

on top of it all....he is a cheater.....and once a cheat always cheats......(this is not even the first time leonard has done this on the show)....no way penny could ever trust him again...

 

all this shows....leonard does not love penny.....he just probably loves her body.....thats it......

what penny sees in him is baffling ........

Um, because it was good.  Not just cotton candy and bubble gum, but some serious stuff to be dealt with,as all human beings must do.

 

I think that it's good that the writers have given each couple (so to speak, with H/B/S) something to deal with going forward.  Growing pains, learning to stand up for oneself, committing to each other, or figuring out what commitment means, etc..

 

Good stuff.

hmm ...looks like I have heard of the things you mentioned somewhere.......

um.....um.....um......yeah got it......daily soaps........

but they have already did that many times and they are already close. same with sheldon&leonard.

 

I think it will be more interesting to see other friendships growing.

so what if it has been done many times.....they seem to the only people who have no problem talking to each other and confessing things....

all the other *couples* seems to have no proper communication even after this amount of time.....

so i would like to see Penny and sheldon have a heart to heart in the premier....which seems quite plausible...

Edited May 8, 2015 by vasu

[Martin Pollard]

Weirdly though, although this is what these posters hoped for, none seem happy with this turn of events.

 

"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."

-- Spock, Star Trek: The Original Series ("Amok Time")

[ATOB]

"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."

-- Spock, Star Trek: The Original Series ("Amok Time")

 

Marilyn says it better...

 

[phantagrae]

"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."

-- Spock, Star Trek: The Original Series ("Amok Time")

 

That might be applied to all of the characters just about now...

hmm ...looks like I have heard of the things you mentioned somewhere.......

um.....um.....um......yeah got it......daily soaps........

 

 

And...um...in pretty much every story ever told about human beings.

 

There is nothing new under the sun as far as human relationships go, the mistakes we often make, the miscommunication that can lead to misunderstanding, the fear of changing things, the desire to maintain the status quo.

 

Since the dawn of time people have been dealing with these things and the characters of TBBT are no different.  There's no rule that says a sitcom can't dip its toes in the dramatic end of the pool, if the moment is right or if the story leads there.

And I maintain that the progress toward these points was organic, even if the trajectory wasn't spelled out all season long.  Sometimes things fester, sometimes things just happen, and sometimes it's a combination of all those things.

 

No one felt OOC to me, and it didn't feel like a soap opera, either.

[Mislav]

I think what Leonard did was cheating and it is also about crossing a line. Being faithful is pretty straightforward but a lot of posters here spend a huge amount of time and energy justifying cheating. it's probably at the lower end of the scale for most people but still doesn't take away the fact that it's cheating. Some could argue that it's just flirtation that got out of hand. A drunken snog on a party boat with lots of alcohol involved is not the same as having sex or even an affair. Having said that it's not a good sign and seems to suggest that Leonard is not secure and happy in his relationship with Penny as they have made us to believe. JMO.

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Well, it isn't cheating if she kissed him and if he didn'r return that kiss (well, not a lot)...

I think what Leonard did was cheating and it is also about crossing a line. Being faithful is pretty straightforward but a lot of posters here spend a huge amount of time and energy justifying cheating. it's probably at the lower end of the scale for most people but still doesn't take away the fact that it's cheating. Some could argue that it's just flirtation that got out of hand. A drunken snog on a party boat with lots of alcohol involved is not the same as having sex or even an affair. Having said that it's not a good sign and seems to suggest that Leonard is not secure and happy in his relationship with Penny as they have made us to believe. JMO.

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Well, it isn't cheating if she kissed him and if he didn't kiss her back (well, not a lot)...

[phantagrae]

I don't think Leonard was looking to cheat on Penny, or even looking to kiss that girl, but I can see that he didn't stop her before it happened.

 

As we've been saying, people do stupid things when they're drunk and far from home--like kids going off to college.  And for Leonard, one might say that as an adult he's getting a thrill when some girl approaches him or hits on him or flirts with him.  If he was always the nerdy guy that girls ignored, it must feel great to have them, as he said about Alex, "sniffing around the goods."

 

He may have wound up kissing this girl before he realized what he was doing.  Maybe it was the taste of vomit and cigarettes that woke him from his drunken stupor and made him react.

 

Whatever.  He was probably flattered and felt pumped up by his success on the ship and if the girl was persistent enough to kiss him, he let it happen without thinking.  Being drunk can do that to you.

 

But I still think he was right to confess it.

[gsxdoug]

As far as Leonard's moment of drunken indiscretion goes, I've known people who have forgiven far worse than this and continue to be very happy together. All relationships experience bumps in the road. In the end, this is simply the writer's (rather clumsy) way of putting off the wedding, which was unnecessary given that they already told us it wasn't happening anytime soon. I don't think fans really wanted an elopement for these two anyway.

[Tonstar17]

I don't think Leonard was looking to cheat on Penny, or even looking to kiss that girl, but I can see that he didn't stop her before it happened.

As we've been saying, people do stupid things when they're drunk and far from home--like kids going off to college. And for Leonard, one might say that as an adult he's getting a thrill when some girl approaches him or hits on him or flirts with him. If he was always the nerdy guy that girls ignored, it must feel great to have them, as he said about Alex, "sniffing around the goods."

He may have wound up kissing this girl before he realized what he was doing. Maybe it was the taste of vomit and cigarettes that woke him from his drunken stupor and made him react.

Whatever. He was probably flattered and felt pumped up by his success on the ship and if the girl was persistent enough to kiss him, he let it happen without thinking. Being drunk can do that to you.

But I still think he was right to confess it.

I get where your coming from but being drunk is not an excuse. He put himself in that situation and I agree he was right to tell her. I'm still upset about the kissing thing. I think I need a strong drink, maybe not I might do a Leonard. Lol

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[vasu]

so if he was drunk and had sex with her........ that should also be fine by some people's logic here.....

 

as long as he is drunk....it is forgivable..... !!!!!!!

 

so next time one wants to make a mistake ....they should just get drunk..........and blame it on the drinks...

 

 

not to forget he was shameless showing a topless video of penny to everyone on the boat.....he never told that to penny .......that he has seen the video nor that he showed it to everyone on the boat......

Edited May 8, 2015 by vasu

[Mislav]

I get where your coming from but being drunk is not an excuse. He put himself in that situation and I agree he was right to tell her. I'm still upset about the kissing thing. I think I need a strong drink, maybe not I might do a Leonard. Lol

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Well, if she kissed him you can't really say that he put himself in that situation... it isn't like you should stop hanging out with people or having parties with people when in a relationship... or that you can (always) predict when somebody will kiss you, especially when drunk... unless he was flirting with her or she was flirting with him and he went by like with Alex but didn't think it would go any further, but that wasn't mentioned...

[gsxdoug]

so if he was drunk and had sex with her........ that should also be fine by some people's logic here.....

 

as long as he is drunk....it is forgivable..... !!!!!!!

 

so next time one wants to make a mistake ....they should just get drunk..........and blame it on the drinks...

 

 

not to forget he was shameless showing a topless video of penny to everyone on the boat.....he never told that to penny .......that he has seen the video nor that he showed it to everyone on the boat......

Nobody is saying it's fine, just forgivable, and there are degrees of wrongness.

 

We've had it out about the "topless video" before. It wasn't a private video, it was a scene from a movie that was readily available for wide public viewing and for all we know it was her only scene in the movie so the only way Leonard could have shown that his girlfriend acted in a movie was to show that scene.

[phantagrae]

As far as Leonard's moment of drunken indiscretion goes, I've known people who have forgiven far worse than this and continue to be very happy together. All relationships experience bumps in the road. In the end, this is simply the writer's (rather clumsy) way of putting off the wedding, which was unnecessary given that they already told us it wasn't happening anytime soon. I don't think fans really wanted an elopement for these two anyway.

 

I don't think it was just a "clumsy way" for the writers to put off the wedding.  I think it was a way to bring up the question of commitment--when they're talking with Sheldon, they're going on and on about how they don't need to set a date, that they're in a good place, and then go on the do a quickie discussion of what kind of ceremony they want (complete with flying worms), but they still avoid setting a date, or even a ballpark for the date.

So Penny gets this wild hair of dashing off to Vegas, which is still avoiding the process of planning that most couples go through.  Dashing off to Vegas is almost just another way to not really think about any of it, to not consider where they're going to have it, who they're going to invite, family issues, etc..

It seems romantic on the surface, but because they haven't gotten down to the nitty gritty of discussing the wedding, they're treating it like a date to the movies.

 

So, when Leonard's confession comes up, they're not in the middle of a sober planning session, but in the middle of a whim, which makes such difficult news even more difficult.  But it's also a plausible situation, therefore not, IMO, clumsy drama.

 

I think that there have been many fans who have questioned why L/P haven't talked about the wedding or haven't just gone out and done it.  Well, they decided to just do it, but now they have to decide if this news is a deal-breaker or is going to postpone the wedding even further or what.

 

They have to, if you'll pardon it being very "on the nose", determine if they are ready to commit--not just to engagement, but to marriage.  They feel ready to commit to engagement, but they've gotten rather comfortable with the status quo.

[Chrismo]

so if he was drunk and had sex with her........ that should also be fine by some people's logic here.....

 

as long as he is drunk....it is forgivable..... !!!!!!!

 

so next time one wants to make a mistake ....they should just get drunk..........and blame it on the drinks...

 

 

not to forget he was shameless showing a topless video of penny to everyone on the boat.....he never told that to penny .......that he has seen the video nor that he showed it to everyone on the boat......

Penny never told him about the video.

 

Well, if she kissed him you can't really say that he put himself in that situation... it isn't like you should stop hanging out with people or having parties with people when in a relationship... or that you can (always) predict when somebody will kiss you, especially when drunk... unless he was flirting with her or she was flirting with him and he went by like with Alex but didn't think it would go any further, but that wasn't mentioned...

I can see it now in the first episode next year. By the way the girl I kissed was Alex.