S8 Discussion Thread

[Chrismo]

In one instance someone suggested earlier that he knows that Amy's made him a better man. But in another instance he doesn't know any better and that it must be his OCD. It seems to be a bit of cherry picking depending on the situation.

[Mislav]

In one instance someone suggested earlier that he knows that Amy's made him a better man. But in another instance he doesn't know any better and that it must be his OCD. It seems to be a bit of cherry picking depending on the situation.

I wasn't talking about his relationship with Amy, but about his feelings of Leonard moving out. And OCD can never be truly cured. The only one cherry picking is you.

[Tonstar17]

There are treatments for ocd like behavioral therapy. The writers could try it instead of making excuses for his behaviour . But that wouldn’t be funny. Oh well.

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Edited May 11, 2015 by Tonstar17

[Mislav]

There are treatments for ocd like behavioral therapy. The writers could try it instead of making excuses for his behaviour . But that wouldn’t be funny. Oh well.

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Mental illnesses can never be completely cured. That is a fact. OCD is the cause, not an excuse. Believe me, you don't want to have such a thing. Sheldon is in denial of having OCD and, to be fair, hardly anyone tries to prove him otherwise.

The writers didn't make him go to the therapy in order to keep the essence of his character. The same reason Raj hadn't been talking to the women without being drunk until season six finale. Maybe they wouldn't have gotten rid of that too if it hadn't become impractical.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Mislav

[Tonstar17]

Mental illnesses can never be completely cured. That is a fact. OCD is the cause, not an excuse. Believe me, you don't want to have such a thing. Sheldon is in denial of having OCD and, to be fair, hardly anyone tries to prove him otherwise.

The writers didn't make him go to the therapy in order to keep the essence of his character. The same reason Raj hadn't been talking to the women without being drunk until season six finale. Maybe they wouldn't have gotten rid of that too if it hadn't become impractical.

I agree it can't be totally cursed but don't you think the writers sometimes go too far with it and make people who actually suffer from ocd look like jerks.

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[Mislav]

I agree it can't be totally cursed but don't you think the writers sometimes go too far with it and make people who actually suffer from ocd look like jerks.

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Although I don't agree that writers are constantly making excuses for Sheldon's behavior... well, they can get over the top. They definitely kept the Raj's mutism longer than they should had and there were situations regarding Sheldon where they could have explored an actual problem. But I guess sometimes you need to look deeper into things or in order to finally make up a fair opinion about a certain situation/character. Just my opinion. It isn't easy to keep track with five main characters and bunch of minor ones in a twenty minute sitcom... Edited May 11, 2015 by Mislav

[Tensor]

I mean, the fact that Sheldon and Amy had lots of scenes doesn't mean much if the relationship wasn't developing well at the time.

Would you rather see Shamy together in scenes in more than two thirds of the episodes, even with very little development(season six); or only see them together in scenes in less than a third of the episodes, with very little development, as Lenny was in season 8?

[stardustmelody]

I agree it can't be totally cursed but don't you think the writers sometimes go too far with it and make people who actually suffer from ocd look like jerks.

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I never too Sheldon's self-centeredness and self-absorption to be because of his OCD at all.  I took it that it was because he carries around a superiority complex because he was told how "special" he was and how much "smarter" he was than everyone else when younger that he bought into that theory and still believes it to this day.   I never once associated it with his OCD.  His OCD I always felt was a separate issue.   

 

The reason Sheldon can't read others and doesn't really understand irony and sarcasm is because he never cared to really listen to other people before.  He felt he knew it all and thus people should be listening to him.   But that is changing in him.  He now truly wants to understand people better and to integrate more.   He didn't used to care until Leonard moved in.   But now he has friends and a girlfriend he adores.   He does want to understand people more.  

 

Sadly he still carries around his self-centeredness and self-absorption so those will always be at war with his desire to integrate and understand people more.   That is where the comedic scripting comes into play.   

 

Yes they can go over the top and they can drive things into the ground (such as Mrs. Wolowitz' weight, or Amy's desire for physical intimacy), but I have seen a huge change in Sheldon.  He seems to have grown a lot compared to early seasons.

[Nogravitasatall]

I never too Sheldon's self-centeredness and self-absorption to be because of his OCD at all. I took it that it was because he carries around a superiority complex because he was told how "special" he was and how much "smarter" he was than everyone else when younger that he bought into that theory and still believes it to this day. I never once associated it with his OCD. His OCD I always felt was a separate issue.

The reason Sheldon can't read others and doesn't really understand irony and sarcasm is because he never cared to really listen to other people before. He felt he knew it all and thus people should be listening to him. But that is changing in him. He now truly wants to understand people better and to integrate more. He didn't used to care until Leonard moved in. But now he has friends and a girlfriend he adores. He does want to understand people more.

Sadly he still carries around his self-centeredness and self-absorption so those will always be at war with his desire to integrate and understand people more. That is where the comedic scripting comes into play.

Yes they can go over the top and they can drive things into the ground (such as Mrs. Wolowitz' weight, or Amy's desire for physical intimacy), but I have seen a huge change in Sheldon. He seems to have grown a lot compared to early seasons.

Grown... or grown weak? Lol. I'm thinking Dennis Kim. Heheh

[RudyG]

Grown... or grown weak? Lol. I'm thinking Dennis Kim. Heheh

So Dennis Kim was really the smart one.

[Carlos]

For me behaviors that were funny in Sheldon in previous seasons are not funny anymore. Not because they are not funny in and of themselves but because they have been beaten to death through repetition. The writers should explore other facets of his personality that can also be funny. I also think that the have transformed TBBT in Sheldon's show because Sheldon is a much easier character to write than the rest, specially because of all his quirks. If they really worked at it all characters can be made funny. It just takes more effort. Also I disagree with the people who get so hung up on how much Sheldon loves Amy. While I would really love for it to be like that, 5 years into the relationship the love of Sheldon's life is still Sheldon, and while admitting he loved her , and the kissing etc , etc are good signs, I still see them miles apart in what each one of them wants/needs  to get out of the relationship. They are further apart than what people think. I liked what Amy did, and hope it shocks Sheldon into being less self-centered even if it is a dominant trait of his personality.

[Stewie99]

For me behaviors that were funny in Sheldon in previous seasons are not funny anymore. Not because they are not funny in and of themselves but because they have been beaten to death through repetition. The writers should explore other facets of his personality that can also be funny. I also think that the have transformed TBBT in Sheldon's show because Sheldon is a much easier character to write than the rest, specially because of all his quirks. If they really worked at it all characters can be made funny. It just takes more effort. Also I disagree with the people who get so hung up on how much Sheldon loves Amy. While I would really love for it to be like that, 5 years into the relationship the love of Sheldon's life is still Sheldon, and while admitting he loved her , and the kissing etc , etc are good signs, I still see them miles apart in what each one of them wants/needs to get out of the relationship. They are further apart than what people think. I liked what Amy did, and hope it shocks Sheldon into being less self-centered even if it is a dominant trait of his personality.

I agree. Sheldon's quirks aren't quirky anymore, they're tired and predictable. When I watch the show with friends we sometimes play a game where we guess when in a scene Sheldon will make a 'quirky' comment. The character has become so predictable that he is no longer interesting. This is partly due to the age of the show, but also due to the over-use of Sheldon this season, turning TBBT into a 'Sheldon Cooper and his friends' sort of show. I know that Sheldon is the breakout star, but that doesn't mean we need him in every scene, delivering every punchline.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Stewie99

[tallin]

For me behaviors that were funny in Sheldon in previous seasons are not funny anymore. Not because they are not funny in and of themselves but because they have been beaten to death through repetition. The writers should explore other facets of his personality that can also be funny. I also think that the have transformed TBBT in Sheldon's show because Sheldon is a much easier character to write than the rest, specially because of all his quirks. If they really worked at it all characters can be made funny. It just takes more effort. Also I disagree with the people who get so hung up on how much Sheldon loves Amy. While I would really love for it to be like that, 5 years into the relationship the love of Sheldon's life is still Sheldon, and while admitting he loved her , and the kissing etc , etc are good signs, I still see them miles apart in what each one of them wants/needs  to get out of the relationship. They are further apart than what people think. I liked what Amy did, and hope it shocks Sheldon into being less self-centered even if it is a dominant trait of his personality.

For me, on the other hand is just baffling how much more signs one needs by now. If I remember 1-4 Sheldon he turned his life beliefs pretty much upside down for her. All the way from declare war after someone touches his food and aversion to any feelings, to proclaiming those hippy feelings and heading towards that highly unsanitary activity. He is still selfish, after all his dear friend and roommate still have to have his grape-nuts with club soda,but If there is someone to which Sheldon accommodated big part of his life to, and is trying to change his habits completely unselfishly, it's her, and that for me holds way more weight than all  those love declarations. Maybe it still isn't enough in somebody else's eyes,but I will drag out this broken record. Yes, it's Sheldon. He tries as much as his abilities allows him to. It counts for me.

As well I don't see in which aspect they are so far apart.  Their preferences on how future should looks like seems similar now, their priorities in relationship as well and while I understand Amy is frustrated with the pace, it still doesn't mean  they are not heading the same way, or that their paths are diverging because their wants/needs are so diametrically opposed. In fact I would have hard time figuring out some bigger disparity - Sheldon's aversion for classical romance but that's more of matter of compromise I think. If I would have to pick out real problem then it would be the fact they both suck at communication about feelings and pace is problem for Amy, those are those I can see, but some huge difference in expectations or lack of love, no,  sorry, I don't see it. But that's my opinion not everybody has to share of course. 

I can see how some can be annoyed by so much of Sheldon, so yes, I'm  all for focusing on other characters more closely and give them proper interesting stories.  That's I think where we can agree. 

[jenafan]

For me behaviors that were funny in Sheldon in previous seasons are not funny anymore. Not because they are not funny in and of themselves but because they have been beaten to death through repetition. The writers should explore other facets of his personality that can also be funny......I liked what Amy did, and hope it shocks Sheldon into being less self-centered even if it is a dominant trait of his personality.

I believe this is probably one of the reasons the writers chose to end the season with this ShAmy break. It provides a means to expose or develop other aspects of Sheldon's personality not yet seen on screen, yet keeping the core of his personality in tact.

I think they had the same intention at the end of Season 3 by having Amy introduced to the show. I read somewhere that Jim was getting bored with his character, and giving Sheldon a pseudo love life was a way of breaking the monotony.

Amy was only supposed to be in a few episodes, but Majim enjoyed working so much together and the fan-based increased, giving the writer's reason to have Amy remain a staple in Sheldon's life.

As far as being the Sheldon show, of course it is. Like it or not, Jim Parsons is their key money maker and fans love him on screen. Put him together with Mayim, and the female fan base is exponential. Just my opinion.

Edited May 12, 2015 by jenafan

[vonmar]

The writers were thrown a couple of loops this season, Carol Ann's sudden death and then Mayim's availability after her father's death may have skewed their plans for the mid-to-late season episodes.

 

They needed to honor Carol's passing and the needed to accommodate Mayim and that may have forced them to severely adjust the arcs they were planning and they had make things happen in a way they did not anticipate.  It may be a sitcom, but the cast crew and staff are real people who had to adjust a comedy to meet the reality of what was happening in their present. 

 

Perhaps Season 8 would have been different without these losses.

Edited May 12, 2015 by vonmar

[Stewie99]

The writers were thrown a couple of loops this season, Carol Ann's sudden death and then Mayim's availability after her father's death may have skewed their plans for the mid-to-late season episodes.

 

They needed to honor Carol's passing and the needed to accommodate Mayim and that may have forced them to severely adjust the arcs they were planning and they had make things happen in a way they did not anticipate.  It may be a sitcom, but the cast crew and staff are real people who had to adjust a comedy to meet the reality of what was happening in their present. 

 

Perhaps Season 8 would have been different without these losses.

I'm interested to know how the writers intended to solve the Stuart/Howard/Mrs Wolowitz story arc before Carol Ann Suzi's death changed things.

Also, I think the writers may have had more planned for Howard this season (perhaps this feud with Bernadette which the show seemed to be building up to) but Mrs Wolowitz dying changed all that.

The problem is that the show has lost a great character (Mrs Wolowitz) and gained a weak character (Emily) so the roster of characters suffers a net loss.

[meka3000]

I'm interested to know how the writers intended to solve the Stuart/Howard/Mrs Wolowitz story arc before Carol Ann Suzi's death changed things.

Also, I think the writers may have had more planned for Howard this season (perhaps this feud with Bernadette which the show seemed to be building up to) but Mrs Wolowitz dying changed all that.

The problem is that the show has lost a great character (Mrs Wolowitz) and gained a weak character (Emily) so the roster of characters suffers a net loss.

 

 

Somehow I don't see Emily on the show for the long haul.

 

Though I agree it seemed the writers were planting seeds of doubt in Howard and Bernadette's minds earlier in the season, and THAT could've lead to them having a separation of sorts.  But obviously when Howard's mom died, it brought him and his wife closer together.  And them now living at the house does feel like the next logical step from this unfortunate passing.

[Mislav]

I never too Sheldon's self-centeredness and self-absorption to be because of his OCD at all. I took it that it was because he carries around a superiority complex because he was told how "special" he was and how much "smarter" he was than everyone else when younger that he bought into that theory and still believes it to this day. I never once associated it with his OCD. His OCD I always felt was a separate issue.

The reason Sheldon can't read others and doesn't really understand irony and sarcasm is because he never cared to really listen to other people before. He felt he knew it all and thus people should be listening to him. But that is changing in him. He now truly wants to understand people better and to integrate more. He didn't used to care until Leonard moved in. But now he has friends and a girlfriend he adores. He does want to understand people more.

Sadly he still carries around his self-centeredness and self-absorption so those will always be at war with his desire to integrate and understand people more. That is where the comedic scripting comes into play.

Yes they can go over the top and they can drive things into the ground (such as Mrs. Wolowitz' weight, or Amy's desire for physical intimacy), but I have seen a huge change in Sheldon. He seems to have grown a lot compared to early seasons.

I disagree, in part.

For example, Sheldon's distress over Leonard moving out and him sleeping on Penny's couch later is likely caused by his fear of change, that is linked to his OCD, and more, due to the feelings of rejection and a constant family disruptions that he had experienced as a child. It is shown in earlier seasons too when Leonard and Penny were acting like parents towards him at one point.

His constant insistent on rules, no matter how annoying, is obviously a product of his OCD. is shown to be his way of trying to get someone else to feel how he feels every day-the OCD is never actually referrenced, but ir is pretty obvious: something is bothering you, stirring you away from happier things, you want to get rid of it, but you can't. I AM NOT saying that this makes Sheldon's action justified, I am just saying that OCD obviously plays a much bigger role in his behavior than most people seem to realize.

I don't think that he necessarily has a superiorty complex but he does have a big ego. I don't think that he is DIRECTLY being so insistent upon something in order to make himself feel better: he wants to feel that he is right so his ego, or rather his self image would remain the way it is. For example, his behavior towards Raj is probably a result of that ego, as well as him putting down Howard's profession and his lack of PhD, and it is probably a defense mechanism due to a lack of self esteem that he had developed while growing up. And while I disagree that he was that... ignorant/mean/annoying due to not wanting to listen people (I think that the main reasons are the ones that I have stated previously) I think that he could have been better at times if he cared to listen to people or think twice before saying/making up his mind, and yes that is due to an ego. After all, it is hard to be secure about yourself when nobody from your environment has shown much interest in your abilities, not to mention being bullied by others and borderline being told that it was your fault by your (hypocritical) mother. He probably lacked the ability to develop social skills early in his childhood, that was only made worse by the bullying/parents constantly arguing, when he was finally recognized as a child prodigy, getting the understanding that he had wanted for all those years, Physics and Math basically became the most important thing in his life, starting from age of eleven due to season five or so, making any social development that he had a change of developing almost completely unused.

Again, that is not to justify all of his behavior, just to provide reasons for it. Every character has quirks/flaws that have roots in their childhood and lack social skills in some ways, just not so much as him or are better at controlling it for some reason (it is safe to say that Leonard's childhood-which was horrible either way-could have been just as bad as Sheldon's or worse, although there are many factors details, that we will probably never know, needed in order to make a comparisson). You can love, hate, don't care about Sheldon, agree or disagree with my reasoning, this insight may make you feel or not feel sympathy towards him, but it is hard to argue that such a character doesn't deserve more... discussion about his... controversial behavior than "he's a jerk" or "he's just being Sheldon" (general idea, not quoting anyone).

Edited May 12, 2015 by Mislav

[Guest]

The shenny fan club must think season 8 is the best one yet

[SRAM]

Nah, I'm thinking that they'll get there, be on the verge of going through with it, realize that they were merely swept up in the moment and that eloping would be unfair to their friends and family, and back out at the last minute and decide on a more traditional wedding. All of this happening off-screen between seasons, of course...

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Yeah I can see the jokes now, she said no to his proposals so now she says no during the vows. Penny the "Runaway" bride. I can see Leonard's "friends" mocking him about if she will show for the real wedding. Tell me if I am wrong?

[phantagrae]

I think that people's fundamental personalities do not really change over their life.

 

They may adapt to a degree, learn from their friends and families, from their education, from the movies and books and music they're exposed to over the years, but there's a core that doesn't really change that much.

 

If you're a pessimistic person, you're likely to remain pessimistic, even if you marry an optimist.  You may be shown the sunnier side of things and you may go along with it to a degree, but left to your own devices, you're always going to see that glass as being half-empty.

 

Reminds me of that Salty/Sweet commercial for Nature Valley granola bars.  This couple is on a hike and she says things like, "I wonder if we can find that tree where we carved our initials" and he responds with things like, "It's probably dead" or whatever.

 

A long-running TV show always has to balance maintaining characters, keeping them IC, with allowing for growth so that the characters don't grow stale.

 

I remember Jim saying something in an interview about how on TBBT the characters change in increments, not in great leaps, and that Chuck Lorre had said that watching these characters change would be like watching paint dry--in other words, no sudden changes, but little nudges toward whatever change might be in the works.

 

So, Sheldon didn't turn into a lover boy the day he met Amy.  She changed him, but only little by little and almost without his knowledge.  As he said in the Table episode, he has been like the frog in the pot of water where the heat is turned up so slowly that he doesn't realize he's being boiled.

 

Sheldon will always be Sheldon--mostly self-focused, proud of his intellect, his genius, and convinced that "[his] brain is better than EVERYONE'S!"

 

He'll always have some degree of OCD.  It seems to me that his level of OCD is not serious enough to require therapy or intervention.  He's not a hoarder, he can leave the house and function at his job, his OCD behaviors don't interfere with his everyday life.  He may have his triple knock and he may need his pajama rotation, but those things aren't really a problem.

 

He'll always have his phobias, and this may have to do with his OCD or another kind of obsessive thinking pattern--anything that scares him once could end up becoming a phobia because these things seem to loom large in his mind--birds, dogs, heights, strangers, whatever.

Although he seems to be able to desensitize to some degree (kissing, for instance--he seems to be able to overcome his germ phobia in that area), he seems to be prone to blowing such things out of proportion.

 

Although his involvment with his social group and his girlfriend, and just life in general, has put him in situations where he has learned or has had to learn how to interact more normally in various situations, he's never going to be a different person.

 

And who would want him to?  What's the point in turning Sheldon into a "normal" character?  None of the characters is truly normal, and that's kind of the point of the series.  This isn't Friends, about 20-somethings trying to sort out their love life and career issues.  This is about these misfit characters, who are misfits not just because of their taste in movies or TV or whatever, but because they have social relationship issues.  They were bullied in school, they were in the gifted program, they never outgrew their enthusiasm for things like comic books and sci-fi (and it's not as much about outgrowing such things, but about obsessing over them and talking "too much" about them), they were overlooked by girls, and on and on.

 

They're each going to retain their basic "nerdy guy" attributes because not only are they fundamental to their personalities, but also because that's the premise on which the show was built.

 

They've all grown somewhat, but have all retained their core personalities.

 

Sheldon has grown in his ability to understand sarcasm, for example, but only to a degree.  It's never going to be his strength, or an easy thing for him.  Sheldon can sometimes understand it, I think if it doesn't apply to him directly, like if he hears someone else using it about someone else.

 

Anyway, I don't understand why some people insist on taking it all so seriously--I mean whether or not Sheldon has grown or hasn't or whatever.

 

Yes, the show is going to rely at least to some degree on the characters acting and responding in more or less the same way in given circumstances.  But take a look at your own social circle, your family and friends.

Isn't there a person who always makes a funny comment, or someone who doesn't get the joke, or someone who's always a bit of a pain?

Even if you've known them for years, you can usually count on the same people to react the same way in any given circumstance.

 

And there are going to be leaders and followers, or one who always comes up with a crazy idea, or one who helps everyone keep a level head.

 

I think that each of the TBBT characters plays a part in the group dynamic and will always play pretty much the same role, or have the same function.  Why does Sheldon get the punchlines he gets?  Because he is the sort to say certain kinds of things, which are used as the punchline.

 

Leonard is essentially the straight man, usually with his feet on the ground, in almost every scene he's in, so his function is going to be different than Sheldon's function.  Leonard gets certain kinds of punchlines, but his are going to be different than the kind that Sheldon may get, or Howard or Raj, etc.

Edited May 12, 2015 by phantagrae

[Mislav]

The shenny fan club must think season 8 is the best one yet

Yes, I guess Shamy ILY, Shamy make out session, Lenny going to Vegas to get married and Sheldon buying an engagement ring doesn't concern them at all. Edited May 12, 2015 by Mislav

[Mislav]

Would you rather see Shamy together in scenes in more than two thirds of the episodes, even with very little development(season six); or only see them together in scenes in less than a third of the episodes, with very little development, as Lenny was in season 8?

Regarding season six, I guess I would have preferred seeing them more than less than a third of the episodes, but not necessarily that much more due to a way their relationship was portrayed in that season. But the point of the comparisson wasn't to prove which couple had it worse, but to show that Lenny isn't the only couple being portrayed badly throughout the certain season on this show and that every season has oscillations regarding the quality the couples are being portrayed. Edited May 12, 2015 by Mislav

[Guest]

Shamy break up . Lenny getting married we shall see. Love test Penny going to Sheldon for advise Penny and Sheldon making fun of Leonard Penny calling Sheldon the wise man and so on

[Stewie99]

Shamy break up . Lenny getting married we shall see. Love test Penny going to Sheldon for advise Penny and Sheldon making fun of Leonard Penny calling Sheldon the wise man and so on

Penny also backed up Sheldon when Sheldon and Leonard were arguing over who should have been the lead scientist on their paper.

That said, I don't believe that a Shenny relationship would be beneficial to the show but it is good to see that Penny and Sheldon have grown closer as friends this season. It's nice that they support each other and back each other up.