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[Spoilers]Shipping Lanes - Season 8

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Penny used her body many times on this show....and i must have missed this uproar all those times....

 

she uses her body in her job...it seems to be one the main reasons for her success.....she used to sent her photos with bra's to pay her rent............she said she has paid her meals by not using money..... again I must have missed all the uproar..... or is penny not loved by anyone right now..........

Back in the day, I was (the much maligned term) a model turned actress Vasu. So, am I a whore too? And Kaley, Mayim and Melissa? How far are we taking this?

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Penny used her body many times on this show....and i must have missed this uproar all those times....

she uses her body in her job...it seems to be one the main reasons for her success.....she used to sent her photos with bra's to pay her rent............she said she has paid her meals by not using money..... again I must have missed all the uproar..... or is penny not loved by anyone right now..........

Hi vasu. Can I ask what is it about TBBT that you enjoy? What is it that captures you about the show? What makes you look forward to watching? Just curious...

Sent from my iPhone using

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Back in the day, I was (the much maligned term) a model turned actress Vasu. So, am I a whore too? And Kaley, Mayim and Melissa? How far are we taking this?

 

U said there would be a uproar if penny did things like leonard did and she would not be lovable at all............ I pointed out things which Penny did.....but still she is lovable.............

 

so there was no uproar u were talking about even though penny did things like that..........

 

so there is was no difference in how people treated characters be it a male characer or female character ...when doing the same things.....

 

and instead of answering what I wrote u seem to go on about in different tangents.....

and I have no idea of whether u r a whore or not........

 

Hi vasu. Can I ask what is it about TBBT that you enjoy? What is it that captures you about the show? What makes you look forward to watching? Just curious...

Sent from my iPhone using

Tapatalk

 

It this question is regarding to my last post........it was simply a response to someone's about there being an uproar why penny uses her body....

 

but penny has used her body to her advantage many times and there was never an uproar and she is still lovable.......unlike the poster was mentioning...

Edited by vasu
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U said there would be a uproar if penny did things like leonard did and she would not be lovable at all............ I pointed out things which Penny did.....but still she is lovable.............

 

so there was no uproar u were talking about even though penny did things like that..........

 

and instead of answering what I wrote u seem to go on about in different tangents.....

and I have no idea of whether u r a whore or not........

 

 

It this question is regarding to my last post........it was simply a response to someone's about there being an uproar why penny uses her body....

 

but penny has used her body to her advantage many times and there was never an uproar and she is still lovable...

Penny has not had sex with a stranger in exchange for money. Using your good looks to get on is not akin to prostitution Vasu.

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Hi vasu. Can I ask what is it about TBBT that you enjoy? What is it that captures you about the show? What makes you look forward to watching? Just curious...

Sent from my iPhone using

Tapatalk

Too bad that Unsolved Mysteries got canceled a few years ago.

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Penny has not had sex with a stranger in exchange for money. Using your good looks to get on is not akin to prostitution Vasu.

 

Ahhhh.... so it is ok to use your body and looks as long as you not have sex........ what a bunch of crap.....

 

and having sex with strangers because one gets pleasure out of it should also be considered as prostitution then............. since both money and pleasure are personal gains......

 

leonard used his body to get money.....penny used her body to get money or get things done for her.......absolutely no difference.....

 

 

Anyway this was not even my point.....

 

both leonard and penny have used their bodies to gain profit (sex or no sex does not matter...its one's intentions that matter)....and there was no uproar on either occasion like u seem to be pointing out.......

Edited by vasu

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Actually Vasu, in my opinion there's nothing wrong with prostitution, what one does with ones own body is no-one elses business.

I was pointing out the double standards and sexism of the situation. I have never heard Leonard being accused of being a tart, that's all.

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Actually Vasu, in my opinion there's nothing wrong with prostitution, what one does with ones own body is no-one elses business.

I was pointing out the double standards and sexism of the situation. I have never heard Leonard being accused of being a tart, that's all.

 

again I have no idea of these double standards and sexism you are talking about.......

 

the show does not seem to treat penny or leonard any differently when they got profits by using their bodies.....

 

and if you heard some people saying penny being a tart and never heard of leonard being accused of being tart(by the way I have seen many people on this site itself calling leonard p***y whipped....a guy who thinks with his p***s....not tart exactly but u can get the gist)....does not mean double standards and sexism....

 

and there will always be people in the world who will agree with some things and there will be people who won't agree with the same thing.....and if you only see the point of view of the people who agree.......then from your point of view there will always be double standards........................which originally might not exist at all.........

 

And regarding prostitution......I also think the person who pays the prostitute and has sex with him/her..... should also be called a prostitute.......

 

and by the way I thought  u thought of prostitution as a bad thing when I read your earlier post saying using your good looks is not akin to prostitution..........wonder what changed.......

 

EDIT : and regarding double standards....isn't you saying that as long as one doesn't have sex , it is ok to use your good looks,a double standard in the first place...... and what about the people who don't have the *good* looks to get by then....

Too bad that Unsolved Mysteries got canceled a few years ago.

 

I am not really sure what u mean by this.....could u please elaborate.......

Edited by vasu

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Well misandry is equally as bad as misogyny Vasu. Two wrongs don't make a right and, as a feminist, I am a firm believer in equality. Pretending the patriarchy doesn't exist solves nothing though. Please don't tell me you believe we live in a fair and equal society because I know you're cleverer than that.

I certainly objected to the comparison of an actress or model, or any woman who celebrates her beauty, to a prostitute. I do believe people are free to do with their bodies whatever they choose, however, it's not a path I'd choose for myself and I resent the parity thank you very much.

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Good Lord I get so beyond sick of this excuse. Penny was 100% single and blacked out to the point of memory loss when Raj happened, and that's still used as some sort of moral equivalency and a strike against her character.

She did it in Leonard's bed. That made it personal to Leonard, and would hurt anyone who still had feelings for another person. I know how I would feel if someone I cared about did it in my bed with her latest squeeze? I'm just making the point that what Penny did was not just a single girl with a guy, she did it in Leonard's apartment in his bed, Sheldon even mentioned it next episode, so she hurt him just as much as he hurt her with the kiss. He forgave her quickly, we'll have to wait and see what she does in season 9.

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ATOB: I usually enjoy your posts because on average they are very balanced, but I think your feminist stance is making you ne not objective. What I think Vasu is trying to point out is that in the show both Leonard and Penny have done the same thing, and that here in the forums it has not been frowned upon, or frowned upon equally, thus there not being gender inequality. Your comments about a fair and equal society do NOT apply as we are talking TBBT here. Society discriminates not only based on gender but also sexual orientation, religious beliefs, physical appearance, age, income level, education, skin color. The list is endless, but that's not TBBT.

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Belittle all you like. The facts remain. Leonard at one point prostituted himself for funding (I think her name was Mrs Latham) and Sheldon had a hand in pimping him.

Can you imagine the uproar if Penny did that? What if she'd slept with a producer for a role in a film? What would that make her, a loveable scamp? In fact, in The Dead Hooker Juxtaposition, I do believe it was suggested that the girl upstairs was doing just that, or maybe she actually was bouncing on the bed, who knows?

Equality has come a long way but don't kid yourself we're there yet. Look at the disparity in the adult reaction to "tomboys" (aw, cute as a button) and little boys that like to dress up as Disney Princesses and play with Barbie (a good laugh at best, disgust at worst). After all, why on earth would a boy want to be a girl? Girl's have cooties don't you know. This behaviour is ingrained, open your eyes.

Leonard didn't prostitute himself for funding. Mrs. Latham told him up front she was going to give Cal Tech the money whether he slept with her or not.and there was no "quid pro quo." She had just taken a shot because Leonard was cute and reminded her of a boy she dated in college. Then she told him he'd never forget a night with her. She was "very good."  That's how she got her rich husband. So Leonard said,"What the hell" and they were off to it. So, just  lust and maybe a little kindness to Mrs. Latham, who apparently was "very good" based upon how Leonard looked when he got home! :shy:

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Usually the writers include some twist to allow the technical distinction of a major fault to a generally acceptable foible. Comedies are riddled with these twists, like cheese with holes. When too many holes in the cheese line up, you get disaster. "itchy sweater" lined up all the holes for me. Other people didn't have the same experience because they see different holes. But I am on the side of consenting adults, generally. And not scaring the horses.

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ATOB: I usually enjoy your posts because on average they are very balanced, but I think your feminist stance is making you ne not objective. What I think Vasu is trying to point out is that in the show both Leonard and Penny have done the same thing, and that here in the forums it has not been frowned upon, or frowned upon equally, thus there not being gender inequality. Your comments about a fair and equal society do NOT apply as we are talking TBBT here. Society discriminates not only based on gender but also sexual orientation, religious beliefs, physical appearance, age, income level, education, skin color. The list is endless, but that's not TBBT.

 

Except it hasn't been frowned upon equally, not by a longshot. You haven't been paying attention if you think it has. Leonard is still seen as a pure boy for all of his sexual adventures, while Penny is given misogynistic names. 

Edited by DaisyJane

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She did it in Leonard's bed. That made it personal to Leonard, and would hurt anyone who still had feelings for another person. I know how I would feel if someone I cared about did it in my bed with her latest squeeze? I'm just making the point that what Penny did was not just a single girl with a guy, she did it in Leonard's apartment in his bed, Sheldon even mentioned it next episode, so she hurt him just as much as he hurt her with the kiss. He forgave her quickly, we'll have to wait and see what she does in season 9.

 

What's your point? They were only in Leonard's bed because he and Priya had taken over Raj's own home for their sexual escapades. And don't comparing it to the kiss. They were together for the kiss, she was single and he was with Priya for the Raj debacle. Simple as that. 

Edited by DaisyJane

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Leonard's wrong may have been bigger but they were both wrong in each instance. Even Penny admitted she was wrong.

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What's your point? They were only in Leonard's bed because he and Priya had taken over Raj's own home for their sexual escapades. And don't comparing it to the kiss. They were together for the kiss, she was single and he was with Priya for the Raj debacle. Simple as that.

Meaningless, it was still his bed, his ex girlfriend did a guy in his bed, it being Raj is immaterial, to that. You may be not concerned, but Penny was ashamed, she couldn't face him, and Leonard was upset, so it was a big deal. If Penny did it in her bed you would be right, but I think the writers made the whole thing about Raj sleeping in Leonard's bed to make it worse. Remember next episode when Sheldon asked Leonard if he was upset that Raj did Penny specifically where Leonard lays his head, it was meant to be really bad.

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I disagree with you Daisy Jane but I have no means to demonstrate you that you're incorrect, short  of reviewing all posts related to the subject matter and tallying the result, which of course I wont do. Let me just say, as clarification, that I don't frown at the behavior of either of them , so in my eyes they're both equals, OK?

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eonard is still seen as a pure boy for all of his sexual adventures, while Penny is given misogynistic names.

Yeah, no. Leoanrd's taken his fair share of shots here. Is it equal, not buy a long shot. But to declare Leonard being seen as a pure boy is well outside what has happened here( and I don't mean just in this topic.)

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ATOB: I usually enjoy your posts because on average they are very balanced, but I think your feminist stance is making you ne not objective. What I think Vasu is trying to point out is that in the show both Leonard and Penny have done the same thing, and that here in the forums it has not been frowned upon, or frowned upon equally, thus there not being gender inequality. Your comments about a fair and equal society do NOT apply as we are talking TBBT here. Society discriminates not only based on gender but also sexual orientation, religious beliefs, physical appearance, age, income level, education, skin color. The list is endless, but that's not TBBT.

Feminism is the advocacy for political, social, economic, cultural and personal equality for women. I agree the movement's core aims are often bastardised and used as a weapon to attack by both men and women. I take the view that I don't think I'm better than you but I do think I'm every bit as good as.

Penny has not prostitued herself. The implicit exchange of money purely for sexual favours has not happened.

Okay, let's reverse the scenario shall we? The University needs funding. An 'old man' (as opposed to an 'old lady') offers an exchange of money for a night in the sack with Penny. She is persuaded by whomever (you can pick your own pimp) and attends the meeting. The 'old man' tells her she will have the time of her life.....now where do we go from here? Is Penny a prostitute because she agreed to attend regardless of whatever hypothetical sexual activity may occur? Or, is she just on a little adventure? Nothing seedy here, just a bit of fun? You decide.

How does my belief in equal treatment make me unobjective? Can you be more specific?

Leonard didn't prostitute himself for funding. Mrs. Latham told him up front she was going to give Cal Tech the money whether he slept with her or not.and there was no "quid pro quo." She had just taken a shot because Leonard was cute and reminded her of a boy she dated in college. Then she told him he'd never forget a night with her. She was "very good."  That's how she got her rich husband. So Leonard said,"What the hell" and they were off to it. So, just  lust and maybe a little kindness to Mrs. Latham, who apparently was "very good" based upon how Leonard looked when he got home! :shy:

I posed a scenario above to Carlos. Same question to you. Reversing the situation how does it measure up when it's Penny walking with a limp the next day after a crazy night humping an 'old man' who'd tried to buy her sexual favours, failed, but persuaded her nonetheless? Is she a loveable scamp? Or is she something else entirely? And why is that?

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Feminism is the advocacy for political, social, economic, cultural and personal equality for women. I agree the movement's core aims are often bastardised and used as a weapon to attack by both men and women. I take the view that I don't think I'm better than you but I do think I'm every bit as good as.

Penny has not prostitued herself. The implicit exchange of money purely for sexual favours has not happened.

Okay, let's reverse the scenario shall we? The University needs funding. An 'old man' (as opposed to an 'old lady') offers an exchange of money for a night in the sack with Penny. She is persuaded by whomever (you can pick your own pimp) and attends the meeting. The 'old man' tells her she will have the time of her life.....now where do we go from here? Is Penny a prostitute because she agreed to attend regardless of whatever hypothetical sexual activity may occur? Or, is she just on a little adventure? Nothing seedy here, just a bit of fun? You decide.

How does my belief in equal treatment make me unobjective? Can you be more specific?

I posed a scenario above to Carlos. Same question to you. Reversing the situation how does it measure up when it's Penny walking with a limp the next day after a crazy night humping an 'old man' who'd tried to buy her sexual favours, failed, but persuaded her nonetheless? Is she a loveable scamp? Or is she something else entirely? And why is that?

 

Again I ask you why is money the only issue.... what not one's own pleasure...... after all they both are personal gains....

And If i remember properly penny spend a night with a guy around 45 when she was in college???? correct me if i am wrong though.....

 

And also there was something that happened on the show....

 

when Raj went to howard's house and mrs wolowitz was the only there or howard left (don't remember properly)....

 

mrs wolowtiz put all his clothes in washing....just gave him a rob.....tried to bath him......... and when he was trying to run away.......she bear hugged him and dragged him back into his apartment......................all this was done and was implied that she did it because she was lonely.........all this  was done against Raj's will.....

 

now lets just reverse the scenario.............an old man and one of our girls (your choice...penny or amy or bernie)...... putting them in a robe...trying to bath them......bear hugging them and dragging them back into his apartment when they try to run away............... would you laugh(I presumed you laughed during the earlier mrs wolowitz raj scene??) or would you scream rape rape............ even if the old man was doing this just because he was lonely......................

 

And also your entire posts suggests that u seem to think of prostitution as a bad thing(unlike u stated earlier).............but u seem to be ok with getting by your good looks as long as you don't have sex(isn't it discrimination towards the people who don't have the supposedly *good* looks).................why is that.............. and aren't looks a part of the body just like the parts of the body which are used during sex...............so why is sex the only issue...........

Well misandry is equally as bad as misogyny Vasu. Two wrongs don't make a right and, as a feminist, I am a firm believer in equality. Pretending the patriarchy doesn't exist solves nothing though. Please don't tell me you believe we live in a fair and equal society because I know you're cleverer than that.

I certainly objected to the comparison of an actress or model, or any woman who celebrates her beauty, to a prostitute. I do believe people are free to do with their bodies whatever they choose, however, it's not a path I'd choose for myself and I resent the parity thank you very much.

 

do we live in a fair and equal society...... well depends on how you view the society.........there will always be people will different ideas......

 

and if you think there is only inequality between men and women....then you are wrong..........what about color, looks (why should only *good* looking people get by most of the times because of their looks)....race.....money.....orientation...... there are many other things......

Edited by vasu

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Again I ask you why is money the only issue.... what not one's own pleasure...... after all they both are personal gains....

And If i remember properly penny spend a night with a guy around 45 when she was in college???? correct me if i am wrong though.....

 

 

Vasu, if you cannot see the difference between a woman posing for photos in her underwear and any man with the cash putting his penis inside her then I can't help you, sorry.

 

Prostitution and exploitation are frequent bedfellows.  All power to Belle De Jour and her ilk, all power to those who seek casual sex for their own gratification, their bodies, their choice, their business.  More common though, certainly in this country, is sex-trafficking, or prostitution being the only option available due to addiction, homelessness or poor circumstance.

 

Prostitution, as you well know, carries a stigma and I most certainly object to it being compared with modelling and acting. 

 

As for Penny and her 45 year old.  Seriously, I don't know (or care much).  However, if 45 is old then I'm pretty knackered.

 

 

And also there was something that happened on the show....

 

when Raj went to howard's house and mrs wolowitz was the only there or howard left (don't remember properly)....

 

mrs wolowtiz put all his clothes in washing....just gave him a rob.....tried to bath him......... and when he was trying to run away.......she bear hugged him and dragged him back into his apartment......................all this was done and was implied that she did it because she was lonely.........all this  was done against Raj's will.....

 

now lets just reverse the scenario.............an old man and one of our girls (your choice...penny or amy or bernie)...... putting them in a robe...trying to bath them......bear hugging them and dragging them back into his apartment when they try to run away............... would you laugh(I presumed you laughed during the earlier mrs wolowitz raj scene??) or would you scream rape rape............ even if the old man was doing this just because he was lonely......................

 

 

 

I believe the joke was that Mrs Wolowitz's actions were totally wrong and incredibly creepy.  Raising this example just highlights my point about inequality in the treatment of the sexes.  I repeat, Misandry does not cancel out Misogyny. Both equally wrong.

 

 

And also your entire posts suggests that u seem to think of prostitution as a bad thing(unlike u stated earlier).............but u seem to be ok with getting by your good looks as long as you don't have sex(isn't it discrimination towards the people who don't have the supposedly *good* looks).................why is that.............. and aren't looks a part of the body just like the parts of the body which are used during sex...............so why is sex the only issue...........


 

do we live in a fair and equal society...... well depends on how you view the society.........there will always be people will different ideas......

 

and if you think there is only inequality between men and women....then you are wrong..........what about color, looks (why should only *good* looking people get by most of the times because of their looks)....race.....money.....orientation...... there are many other things......

 

Of course there are many things that are unequal.  You seem to be hung up on the looks one so let's concentrate on that.

 

As a 40plus woman, if you offered me the choice between a doctorate which would enable me to keep my family in health and wealth and a past as a faded model/actress, I'm sure you can work out what I'd choose.

 

You say you've finished school and are waiting to start a job. Was this higher education? If so, lucky you.  That's not available to everyone Vasu, whether it be because of finance or personal situation or lack of intellect.

 

TBBT touched on this recently with Leonard's Princeton speech and his dissing of the popular kids with "it's over now." I found I couldn't  raise a hurrah myself. I'm still in touch with our school's 'it' girl.  She's dependant on antidepressants and pretty much just gets by.  How did her good looks and popularity work for her?  Well, she's married with kids and has a decent enough house.  Was she catapulted into success by being the prettiest girl in school? No.  Why not?  Well, frankly she's not very bright, and the prospects for the 'not very bright' are dim at best in the real world.

 

So, given the choice of brains vs looks, I'll take brains please.

 

Staying on this subject and unfair treatment.  Vasu, would you like to be a trophy, a non-person valued only for the sum of your sexually attractive parts?  Would you like people to assume you are stupid before you even open your mouth?  'Cause that's the reality.

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Vasu, if you cannot see the difference between a woman posing for photos in her underwear and any man with the cash putting his penis inside her then I can't help you, sorry.

 

Prostitution and exploitation are frequent bedfellows.  All power to Belle De Jour and her ilk, all power to those who seek casual sex for their own gratification, their bodies, their choice, their business.  More common though, certainly in this country, is sex-trafficking, or prostitution being the only option available due to addiction, homelessness or poor circumstance.

 

Prostitution, as you well know, carries a stigma and I most certainly object to it being compared with modelling and acting. 

 

As for Penny and her 45 year old.  Seriously, I don't know (or care much).  However, if 45 is old then I'm pretty knackered.

 

 

First of all my comparision was....the following..........having sex for pleasure and having sex for money..............(clearly mentioned in my last post).....

 

and penny's job was not pose for underwear....she used her body to pay for some of her dates(not her job)......she uses her body to lure doctors into buying her drugs(not proper way to doing one's job).......I can go on and on here....

 

acting and modeling are jobs where be it either men or women might have to show skin...nothing wrong with that.............. and if you can't understand what I am going for here or if you just trying to derail the topic into some other thing.....there i can't help you ....sorry..........

 

and the term old is relative..... u used the old lady word while referring to the donor that leonard slept with because u thought that lady was old.........

i think anything about 40 is old right now because I am just 24..........its all relative....

 

there is no definition of old that i know of which specifically gives a number......

 

I believe the joke was that Mrs Wolowitz's actions were totally wrong and incredibly creepy.  Raising this example just highlights my point about inequality in the treatment of the sexes.  I repeat, Misandry does not cancel out Misogyny. Both equally wrong.

You were the one claiming you are a feminist and patriarchy and not living in an equal society.......implying u felt women are not treated properly.....and tried with the penny and the old man example....

 

again i ask the question would you have laughed if you had seen an older man trying to drag a young women into his house......would you have laughed........i certainly don't think so............... people would have been screaming put him in jail....rape rape...... instead of laughing......

 

so would the opposite joke with an old man and a young women had worked on this .........no way at all.........

 

Of course there are many things that are unequal.  You seem to be hung up on the looks one so let's concentrate on that.

 

As a 40plus woman, if you offered me the choice between a doctorate which would enable me to keep my family in health and wealth and a past as a faded model/actress, I'm sure you can work out what I'd choose.

 

You say you've finished school and are waiting to start a job. Was this higher education? If so, lucky you.  That's not available to everyone Vasu, whether it be because of finance or personal situation or lack of intellect.

 

TBBT touched on this recently with Leonard's Princeton speech and his dissing of the popular kids with "it's over now." I found I couldn't  raise a hurrah myself. I'm still in touch with our school's 'it' girl.  She's dependant on antidepressants and pretty much just gets by.  How did her good looks and popularity work for her?  Well, she's married with kids and has a decent enough house.  Was she catapulted into success by being the prettiest girl in school? No.  Why not?  Well, frankly she's not very bright, and the prospects for the 'not very bright' are dim at best in the real world.

 

So, given the choice of brains vs looks, I'll take brains please.

 

Staying on this subject and unfair treatment.  Vasu, would you like to be a trophy, a non-person valued only for the sum of your sexually attractive parts?  Would you like people to assume you are stupid before you even open your mouth?  'Cause that's the reality.

giving an example is not being hung up...........but since you wrote a paragraph about it....lets continue discussing it.......

 

What you choose is your choice...... but that was never the topic of discussion was it............your choice or my choice was never the point of discussion till now.....

 

you gave an example which suits your points..... I can also gave some examples which suit my point.....

 

I knew two women ....one of them *pretty*....and the other not so *pretty*......... both aspiring actors(both being smart too but their dreams being acting)...... but the not so *pretty* one being the better out of the two............but still when they go for audition the *pretty* gets the part because she is *pretty*...... this goes on and on and on..... and the not so *pretty* one gets depressed and starts drinking..... and spends the rest of her life like that...depressed and drunk ................

 

so the example u gave is not the reality....that is just one of things that can happen....not the the only thing that can happen.......

so being 'dim' and prospects in real world don't really connect.....if can tons of other skills and/or god's gifts like beauty which can easily aid one if their life.....

 

and if seem to be under the impression that beauty and brains cannot exist in the same place going by your last line......... unlike you I never assume that an actress or a model is dumb just because she is an actress or a model ........ again not all people think like you......

 

wasn't it this show that referred that men who go to gym and have good bodies and good looks are very very very dumb...........

Edited by vasu

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Leonard needs to shake off his comic-book and Star Dreck side to become the better man he can be with Penny.

 

I disagree.

 

Penny knew how he was, when she started dating him, and when she agreed to marry him.

 

Why should he change now?

 

It's like the girl who dates/marries a biker, then pressures him into getting rid of the bike.

Edited by Stephen Hawking
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