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[Spoilers]Shipping Lanes - Season 8


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Tensor's explanation was pretty succinct but to clarify, yes, you learn your lines, then you rehearse with the other actors and when you're comfortable, you work with the production team to recreate what they envisaged. This is when you're given Director's notes to guide you. So; lines, feel, and then when that's in place, scene blocking.

Don't confuse improvisation with characterisation.

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I like trains.

Chrismo hit the nail on the head as to why I am a (minority, female) Lenny Shipper. When I was a younger woman "tall, dark and handsome" looked good and was very appealing as a romantic lead, but wasn

Sorry, I think so.   You could argue that there are more compelling stories for any and all the other character combinations than ANY couple. The question is what is your definition of compelling

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Tensor's explanation was pretty succinct but to clarify, yes, you learn your lines, then you rehearse with the other actors and when you're comfortable, you work with the production team to recreate what they envisaged. This is when you're given Director's notes to guide you. So; lines, feel, and then when that's in place, scene blocking.

Don't confuse improvisation with characterisation.

Well sorry not everyone has the same knowledge or education as some do. Doesent make my opinion any less valid.

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Well sorry not everyone has the same knowledge or education as some do.

Well if you don't have the knowledge, why are you telling us what is going on? Incorrectly, I might add.

Doesent make my opinion any less valid.

Yes it does. It was explained that Johhny and Kaley (and the other cast members) have stated that they don't improvise. You tried to present a situation as an example of their improvising. It was simple pointed out that what you you consider improvisation, isn't. In that case, they stuck to the script, so it wasn't improv it was acting. That's not an opinion, and yes it was wrong.
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Even if they did improvise (which they've stated they don't) then there's always a director involved to give guidance.  There's a clue in the name 'Director'.

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I would say the 3 most important 2-person relationships for the show are Lenny, Shelnard and Shenny. But equally important IMO is Sheldon's with himself. Remember his rather touching speech at Howard and Bernadette's wedding:"I hope you'll be as happy with each other as I am with myself". It's rather sad that Amy is eroding that.

Re Shamy: Amy the human doormat wanted it, Sheldon the egoist didn't; it's happening. Who has the power?

 

Congrats to those who saw Lenny coming right from the start. I thought it was going to be a static setup: The abusive friendship between 2 straight guys living together, which goes back at least to Laurel and Hardy, with the put-upon guy hopelessly smitten with the stunning girl next door.

Penny's gradually beginning to look at Leonard as a possible was nicely done.

 

I think Lenny still has some way to go. There's unfinished business  from 114 The Nerdvana Annihilation, where Penny scolded Leonard about his scifi and comic book collectibles and he decided to give up such childish pursuits and sell the lot. Then he saw Penny's boyfriend and didn't. It's strange that hasn't been revisited since Lenny became a couple. Leonard needs to shake off his comic-book and Star Dreck side to become the better man he can be with Penny.

"

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I think Lenny still has some way to go. There's unfinished business  from 114 The Nerdvana Annihilation, where Penny scolded Leonard about his scifi and comic book collectibles and he decided to give up such childish pursuits and sell the lot. Then he saw Penny's boyfriend and didn't. It's strange that hasn't been revisited since Lenny became a couple. Leonard needs to shake off his comic-book and Star Dreck side to become the better man he can be with Penny.

 

I don't think Leonard needs to change. His earlier girlfriends always tried to change him and that didn't go well. She's teasing him about it from time to time, but she still loves him, no matter what. Back in "Nerdvana Annihilation", she apologized at the end for being so rude/shallow.

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I would say the 3 most important 2-person relationships for the show are Lenny, Shelnard and Shenny. But equally important IMO is Sheldon's with himself. Remember his rather touching speech at Howard and Bernadette's wedding:"I hope you'll be as happy with each other as I am with myself". It's rather sad that Amy is eroding that.

Re Shamy: Amy the human doormat wanted it, Sheldon the egoist didn't; it's happening. Who has the power?

 

Congrats to those who saw Lenny coming right from the start. I thought it was going to be a static setup: The abusive friendship between 2 straight guys living together, which goes back at least to Laurel and Hardy, with the put-upon guy hopelessly smitten with the stunning girl next door.

Penny's gradually beginning to look at Leonard as a possible was nicely done.

 

I think Lenny still has some way to go. There's unfinished business  from 114 The Nerdvana Annihilation, where Penny scolded Leonard about his scifi and comic book collectibles and he decided to give up such childish pursuits and sell the lot. Then he saw Penny's boyfriend and didn't. It's strange that hasn't been revisited since Lenny became a couple. Leonard needs to shake off his comic-book and Star Dreck side to become the better man he can be with Penny.

"

 

I think you got stuck somewhere in the 1st or 2nd season...

The world has revolved a few times since then.

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I would say the 3 most important 2-person relationships for the show are Lenny, Shelnard and Shenny. But equally important IMO is Sheldon's with himself. Remember his rather touching speech at Howard and Bernadette's wedding:"I hope you'll be as happy with each other as I am with myself". It's rather sad that Amy is eroding that.

Re Shamy: Amy the human doormat wanted it, Sheldon the egoist didn't; it's happening. Who has the power?

 

Congrats to those who saw Lenny coming right from the start. I thought it was going to be a static setup: The abusive friendship between 2 straight guys living together, which goes back at least to Laurel and Hardy, with the put-upon guy hopelessly smitten with the stunning girl next door.

Penny's gradually beginning to look at Leonard as a possible was nicely done.

 

I think Lenny still has some way to go. There's unfinished business  from 114 The Nerdvana Annihilation, where Penny scolded Leonard about his scifi and comic book collectibles and he decided to give up such childish pursuits and sell the lot. Then he saw Penny's boyfriend and didn't. It's strange that hasn't been revisited since Lenny became a couple. Leonard needs to shake off his comic-book and Star Dreck side to become the better man he can be with Penny.

"

I wouldn't put Shenny to top three at all. When they have important their own plot together ? 7x01 ? And before that ? Yes they are friends, but their interaction is mostly caused by someone else, is attached to other characters and is not very important for storyline telling. 

Re Shamy and Lenny - There is one thing about love... you can be annoyed about something, your companion is or do... whatever it's overly egoism, or hobby in comic books, but in the end of the day... you learn how to handle it a little, how to look at it from another view, live with it... because, you know that person worth it. Amy learn how to deal with Sheldon, and he learned how to make amends to her in return from that one reason. Penny took Leonard how he is, and Leonard did the same, because, they didn't need to became better for anyone, they accepted each other as they were.All of this four people consider each other as perfect for each other, who are we to tell them otherwise ?

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Well if you don't have the knowledge, why are you telling us what is going on? Incorrectly, I might add.

Yes it does. It was explained that Johhny and Kaley (and the other cast members) have stated that they don't improvise. You tried to present a situation as an example of their improvising. It was simple pointed out that what you you consider improvisation, isn't. In that case, they stuck to the script, so it wasn't improv it was acting. That's not an opinion, and yes it was wrong.

 

You just illustrated my point. Seems a trend on this site, the need to proove someone wrong. Having an opinion on them improvising, does not change my core point. It was just a suggestion, an idea. I never said it was fact. Sorry I was wrong, but just your general tone that comes across, to make me feel stupid for even suggesting it. Having not the same knowledge doesent give anyone the right to accuse someone of telling someone. When did I ever tell anyone this is right? I just suggested maybe they are improvising. It was one post, geez. Just seems on this site alot of time needing to deconstruct arguments, to either proove your point or be right.  

Edited by 3ku11

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You just illustrated my point. Seems a trend on this site, the need to proove someone wrong. Having an opinion on them improvising, does not change my core point. It was just a suggestion, an idea. I never said it was fact. Sorry I was wrong, but just your general tone that comes across, to make me feel stupid for even suggesting it. Having not the same knowledge doesent give anyone the right to accuse someone of telling someone. When did I ever tell anyone this is right? I just suggested maybe they are improvising. It was one post, geez. Just seems on this site alot of time needing to deconstruct arguments, to either proove your point or be right.

 

Are you saying we should let incorrect statements stand without challenge?  You stated:

 

Maybe, but take Maternal Capicitance s2 for instance. I doubt alot of that was the producers haha. That was all J and K all improvising.

 

That doesn't sound as if it was your opinion that they were improvising.  Not only that, but what they were doing wasn't improvising, what they were in fact doing was acting. 

 

Let's talk about the following comment by you:

 

Well sorry not everyone has the same knowledge or education as some do. Doesent make my opinion any less valid.

 

If your opinion is based on incorrect facts, then yes, your opinion is less valid than one based on correct facts.  TBBT runs on CBS at 8:00 PM, EST, on Thursdays.   If I state it's my opinion that TBBT runs on NBC, at 9:00 PM on Wednesdays, how valid is my opinion?  The problem was it was explained to you that the actors don't improvise.  Then you brought out an example what you thought was them improvising, which was incorrect, as it wasn't actually improvising.

 

Both ATOB and I explained, in detail why that wasn't improvising.   I'm still puzzled on why, if you want to claim you don't have the knowledge, do you make incorrect statements?

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There's a video on Jim Parson's thread of him recording dialogue for an animation, you should watch it 3ku11.  He takes a lot of direction in it so it might give you a better idea (if you're interested in these things). Bear in mind there's no rehearsal period on this type of work which is why Jim is so heavily reliant on the direction given.

 

post-9820-0-66035100-1417908303_thumb.gi

 

Just wanted to add that it doesn't make you stupid if you don't know about certain things.  I'm sure you know plenty of things about subjects that I know nothing about. For example, I know absolutely nothing about most sports, cars or chart music; don't make me stupid though.

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I don't understand why you have an attitude with me.  I didn't even refer to you at all in any of my posts.  

 

I suffer from anxiety and it's a mental illness and I don't mind referring to it as such.  I have friends who have children who have autism and they do not like to be referred to as having a mental illness.  That was my point.  The stigma associated with calling anything a mental illness is huge.

 

I and do not understand why I would "of course" not be offended by Chrismo.  

I'm guessing the reference to me is because we are Lenny shippers. It's like when all the Shamy shippers hit the blue "like this" button for each other no matter what they say.

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I'm guessing the reference to me is because we are Lenny shippers. It's like when all the Shamy shippers hit the blue "like this" button for each other no matter what they say.

Did you find a way to verify that claim or are you just made because nobody liked your posts? Or you just like stereotypes?

Anyway, I think I made my point, I am out of this discussion.

Edited by Mislav

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If it happens I am fine with some of my posts being moved to here. I just wish this thread had a different name. Why not spoilers and debates? Why shipping lanes? Not everyone is a shipper.  We still have opinions.

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Oh I just woke up and missed out on all the fun :p. Re Lenny sleeping. Its all speculation we dont know form sure. We have to presume they are. Why wouldent they be. Lenny fans you need to face the fact status quo has changed. Theirs like four couples now. You were spoilt when it was just Lenny. But they have developed so much. On and off, friends, kissed and slept together alot etc. They are just in a place of central equalibrium. Expecting the same intense intimacy of s3 for eg. Is unrealistic imo. I dont think anythings changed in terms of their intimacy generally speaking, or detrimentally. Just comparitively. Lennys need to stop looking at things inwardly. Its not the Lenny show. Half an hour comedy, pure comedy. Its not a hallmark love story. Never was. I think maybe we take things to seriously some times. I say just roll with the punches.

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Actually re-reading the taping report it seems to me this episode overall will be a good one. I have no problem with the main storyline being Lenny and Shamy. The shopping part appears to be funny. The four of them together is better than seeing Lenny and Sheldon together. Obviously in reality Leonard wouldn't be discussing living accommodations with Sheldon but the show isn't reality. While at the end of the episode IMO they may be no closer to fully living together seeing Lenny going to bed together in Penny's apartment (even with the elephant in the living room) seems to show how life together will eventually be. Could they eliminated Sheldon in the tag? Sure. But it's not like Sheldon has never heard them having sex before.

Not sure why LP fans are complaining tho. Sheldon has been a third party and been playing hypnotenese between Lenny since s3. Sheldon well always be in their lifes. As its funny to the writers, and its been a winning formula in the past. From a shippers perspective maybe not, from a show and funny stand point yes. Remember the choc scene. I know status quo has susposed to change. But I think it showed your going to have to drag Sheldon away kicking and screaming before he lets go of his little buddy. I would like one scene or plot Lenny stand on their own, and don't need the insertion of Sheldon for a joke. Lenny can be hilarious, wish they would focus on that more.

Edited by 3ku11
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Not sure why LP fans are complaining tho. Sheldon has been a third party and been playing hypnotenese between Lenny since s3. Sheldon well always be in their lifes. As its funny to the writers, and its been a winning formula in the past. From a shippers perspective maybe not, from a show and funny stand point yes. Remember the choc scene. I know status quo has susposed to change. But I think it showed your going to have to drag Sheldon away kicking and screaming before he lets go of his little buddy. I would like one scene or plot Lenny stand on their own, and don't need the insertion of Sheldon for a joke. Lenny can be hilarious, wish they would focus on that more.

I think part of the problem is the Sheldon bit is getting old in season 8. Obviously I would like a Lenny stand alone story but the two couples together is better than Lenny/Sheldon.

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Not sure why LP fans are complaining tho. Sheldon has been a third party and been playing hypnotenese between Lenny since s3. Sheldon well always be in their lifes. As its funny to the writers, and its been a winning formula in the past. From a shippers perspective maybe not, from a show and funny stand point yes. Remember the choc scene. I know status quo has susposed to change. But I think it showed your going to have to drag Sheldon away kicking and screaming before he lets go of his little buddy. I would like one scene or plot Lenny stand on their own, and don't need the insertion of Sheldon for a joke. Lenny can be hilarious, wish they would focus on that more.

For me it's largely that the depiction of Sheldon as a fairly consistent oppressor making life harder for Leonard that has worn me down. That has been leavened in the past by the delightful moments of L/P. Those uplifting moments are rarer, so I'm left with rationalisations and nostalgia instead of reality. I really would not tolerate a Sheldon on his own and would never have become addicted to the show without L/P, who seem to have been parked. It it what it it. Market forces etc. Still, there is time for more L/P flashes, they will just be less frequent. The constant scrutiny doesn't help either. Keep picking at a scab and it never gets better.

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Its not the Lenny show. 

 

Speaking only for myself and as a die-hard Lenny, I'm not looking for a Lenny show. In a show that at it's inception was presented as an ensemble cast, it's hard to believe that anyone would deem the show as a 'Lenny'.

 

For me, the Season 8 complaint is that I would like to see Lenny represented in the show. At all. Of the ten episodes we have had so far, Lenny is represented in four of them: First Pitch, Expedition, Misinterpretation, and the Prom episode (the only episode for me so far that had any Lenny magic). And right now we're about an hour and half away from the eleventh episode, a CHRISTMAS episode, which again is Lenny-less. 

 

Another issue for me is the almost seemingly ever-present insertion of Sheldon in a Lenny situation. Space Probe once again drives that point home: Sheldon gave permission for Leonard to stay at Penny's one day a week with the included tag scene of Sheldon, on the Lennys one day, tucked in on Penny's sofa. That's mind-boggling. It's a TV show, it doesn't have to make sense but for me, it's not funny either. 

 

For me, so far Season 8 has been, if anything, the slow and steady disappearance/minimization of the Lenny. That is definitely not what got me hooked on TBBT or what I signed up for.  

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Speaking only for myself and as a die-hard Lenny, I'm not looking for a Lenny show. In a show that at it's inception was presented as an ensemble cast, it's hard to believe that anyone would deem the show as a 'Lenny'.

 

For me, the Season 8 complaint is that I would like to see Lenny represented in the show. At all. Of the ten episodes we have had so far, Lenny is represented in four of them: First Pitch, Expedition, Misinterpretation, and the Prom episode (the only episode for me so far that had any Lenny magic). And right now we're about an hour and half away from the eleventh episode, a CHRISTMAS episode, which again is Lenny-less. 

 

Another issue for me is the almost seemingly ever-present insertion of Sheldon in a Lenny situation. Space Probe once again drives that point home: Sheldon gave permission for Leonard to stay at Penny's one day a week with the included tag scene of Sheldon, on the Lennys one day, tucked in on Penny's sofa. That's mind-boggling. It's a TV show, it doesn't have to make sense but for me, it's not funny either. 

 

For me, so far Season 8 has been, if anything, the slow and steady disappearance/minimization of the Lenny. That is definitely not what got me hooked on TBBT or what I signed up for.  

 

Lol fine, but you only took that excerpt from my entire post? Okay :p. Look I see your point of view. I am like you they are what got me hooked on the show, them and Leonard and Sheldon. But my point was re not The Lenny Show. Not meaning the show was always about them. But from a coupled dynamic. You even saw in Season 6 less fun dynamics, and more dinner coupled eating, Opposed to group hang outs. So maybe they are trying for something else haha, and lacking balance? But you got to understand the show averaged over 20 mill last season. 7 Characters, Four couples. So if it seems Lenny are being minimized, they are, and that sucks. But fans of that ship were spoilt, now we have to share ;).

Edited by 3ku11

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It depends on what measure you want to use.  They are averaging about 21 million in Live + 7 this year.   Last year they averaged 20 Million for the Live + 3 and about 22 million for Live + 7.   TBBT has dropped about 10% from last year (again it depends on the metric used, but 10% is about right).  Overall TV viewing is down about 12%.  With the overall decline in viewing (Last week , Modern Family hit a demo number of 2.8, something it hasn't hit since it's FIRST YEAR.  So TBBT is doing quite well when you take into account it's being jerked around the schedule.    

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For me it's largely that the depiction of Sheldon as a fairly consistent oppressor making life harder for Leonard that has worn me down. That has been leavened in the past by the delightful moments of L/P. Those uplifting moments are rarer, so I'm left with rationalisations and nostalgia instead of reality. I really would not tolerate a Sheldon on his own and would never have become addicted to the show without L/P, who seem to have been parked. It it what it it. Market forces etc. Still, there is time for more L/P flashes, they will just be less frequent. The constant scrutiny doesn't help either. Keep picking at a scab and it never gets better.

 

I understand where you're coming from. Lenny are going to be just fine (well, you know that ;))

 

From my point of view, they've made it clear this season that Penny still has some hang-ups she needs to over come. Before the season started, I assumed that she would be over the commitment  issues but the double date Lenny and Shamy had proved me wrong. LOL. Sometimes, it's still frustrating for me because it's like, "Come on! You've both proposed to each other multiple times, what more are you afraid of, Penny???" LOL. 

 

I do love the tender moments between them that don't involve a joke thrown in. I loved the episode where Penny visited Leonard in his lab. The romance episode where Penny showed Leonard the box of everything she's ever kept from him. THAT'S the chemistry between them I love to see.

 

When the writers feel the need to keep reminding us that Leonard isn't as "cool" as Penny or Penny has been-there-done-that with other guys, etc....it's kind of a buzzkill for me. LOL. The episode this season when she and Leonard go visit Howardette and learning "what not to do in a relationship" comes to mind as one of the examples of what I'm speaking of. Anyway, enough of that and more tender Lenny moments that make me believe they belong together, please :)

 

I've enjoyed Shamy's progress this season. Him running away did him some good, that's for sure. He, like Penny still needs a lot of work. 

 

I want the best for everyone...and as for Raj, I want them to explore that whole Yvette thing...I hope they do in the future ;)

Edited by MJistheBOMB
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I understand where you're coming from. Lenny are going to be just fine (well, you know that ;))

 

From my point of view, they've made it clear this season that Penny still has some hang-ups she needs to over come. Before the season started, I assumed that she would be over the commitment  issues but the double date Lenny and Shamy had proved me wrong. LOL. Sometimes, it's still frustrating for me because it's like, "Come on! You've both proposed to each other multiple times, what more are you afraid of, Penny???" LOL. 

 

I do love the tender moments between them that don't involve a joke thrown in. I loved the episode where Penny visited Leonard in his lab. The romance episode where Penny showed Leonard the box of everything she's ever kept from him. THAT'S the chemistry between them I love to see.

 

When the writers feel the need to keep reminding us that Leonard isn't as "cool" as Penny or has been-there-done-that with other guys, etc....it's kind of a buzzkill for me. LOL. The episode this season when she and Leonard go visit Howardette and learning "what not to do in a relationship" comes to mind as one of the examples of what I'm speaking of. Anyway, enough of that and more tender Lenny moments that make me believe they belong together, please :) 

 

I've enjoyed Shamy's progress this season. Him running away did him some good, that's for sure. He, like Penny still needs a lot of work. 

 

I want the best for everyone...and as for Raj, I want them to explore that whole Yvette thing...I hope they do in the future ;)

You're just adorable. And pretty much on the money here. Hehehe. (Too much Christmas cheer?)

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