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804 The Hook-Up Reverberation (October 6)


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Edgar Bergen was a ventriloquist and Charlie McCarthy was his sidekick.

I knew who you meant, and it was a good reference.  Sheldon did tell Amy what she was feeling.  Or, he was deflecting.  

 

Oh and Amy having a physical attraction to someone (that sometimes relates to sexual acts) when she is in a relationship with Sheldon I think does detract. Replace Amy's comments with Penny and put the name Zack,and then see how it  detracts.  Admiration is fine, but she had made references to she and Penny getting naked.  Different story. I don't want to go down the road of Season 5-6 again.  And her comments last night smack of that unfortunate arc. We are past that. I hope....

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Exactly  Halzera!! It reminds me too much of season 5 and 6 with Amy constantly mentioning how good Penny looks. It was annoying and it contributed nothing to the story, you could say it was funny the first few times, but they seem to like the overuse of a lot of things.

 

I don't care if other people think it was ok, it'll never be okay to me that a woman in a three year relationship with another person (in this case a man) makes comments about another woman's beauty. It's weird! It's not funny anymore. It's one thing to consider her the ideal woman, it's another to keep reminds us how she feels about it.

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Exactly  Halzera!! It reminds me too much of season 5 and 6 with Amy constantly mentioning how good Penny looks. It was annoying and it contributed nothing to the story, you could say it was funny the first few times, but they seem to like the overuse of a lot of things.

 

I don't care if other people think it was ok, it'll never be okay to me that a woman in a three year relationship with another person (in this case a man) makes comments about another woman's beauty. It's weird! It's not funny anymore. It's one thing to consider her the ideal woman, it's another to keep reminds us how she feels about it.

Well if the relationship you're in is with compliments, you have to go somewhere else for it. Even if it only goes one way (as in her real relationship), Amy is starving for affection.

I agree with you about her lesbian thing was fun at first, as it was used to tell us that Amy missed all highschool experiences.

But it isn't funny anymore, but yes, they are rehashing a lot this season.

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No idea whose those people are

Also if Amy wasn't happy then she would end the relationship

See I can no longer come to that conclusion, Which is the problem! Amy doesn't seem to like herself enough to walk away.  This is why all these comments need to stop. That is all I'm saying, His disregard and her taking it.. It killing it for me.  Like someone said before, just because Sheldon is Sheldon does NOT make it OK to say things like that. Period.

Edited by EvilStewie
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I dunno... I watched the episode, kind of mediocre episode in my opinion. I wish the show could refresh itself and it's humor again in general. How, I'm not sure. I wish they could add more science and nerdy humor they used to have, I feel the emphasis is now too much on relationships. I found the show more hilarious in earlier seasons when they used to create the humor from different ingredients, now it's too much mixed with conflict or drama (to my taste) that they use quite often to create humor. I find it less entertaining or hilarious if the humor is created of such components.  But  this is meant only for constructive criticism. There are good things too, but in my opinion the humor used to be even better than it currently is.

Edited by Catlina
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I knew who you meant, and it was a good reference.  Sheldon did tell Amy what she was feeling.  Or, he was deflecting.  

 

Oh and Amy having a physical attraction to someone (that sometimes relates to sexual acts) when she is in a relationship with Sheldon I think does detract. Replace Amy's comments with Penny and put the name Zack,and then see how it  detracts.  Admiration is fine, but she had made references to she and Penny getting naked.  Different story. I don't want to go down the road of Season 5-6 again.  And her comments last night smack of that unfortunate arc. We are past that. I hope....

Remember Amy got sugar from Penny before she got it from Sheldon, on the same night too. Penny just giggled after she kissed Amy, she didn't make Amy reset their friendship. You could say Penny was Amy's first physical relationship.

Kind of like Edgar Bergen and Charlie McCarthy.

I thought it was funny.

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@Bangermain - Sounds like you and I had almost the exact same thought. While watching the episode I was like...."Wow, every creepy or uncomfortable thing that has maybe been here or there over the past 3 seasons just got jam packed into this one!" I'm grateful you mentioned the Stuart/Mrs. Wolowitz stuff on your list of "WTF" stuff from this episode, because I'm surprised by the general love of the Mrs. Wolowitz/Stuart stuff. It was kinda cute and could have been funny, but the situation there has taken a slightly darker turn for me in this episode.

 

When Stuart was being paid by Howard and Bernie to caretake Mrs. Wolowitz, and that the two of them really enjoyed each other's company, that was delightful. But this episode highlighted a problem that was been out there since Mrs. Wolowitz's leg healed and Howardette stopped paying Stuart, which is that Stuart has defaulted into being a mooch in this situation. And that mooching really took a giant and unpleasant leap forward in the way that Stuart made a deliberate stance to make Howard feel unwelcome in the house, and to suggest he had to call first before dropping by, while at the same time admitting that Mrs. Wolowitz was both at the point of buying him clothing and had made a huge financial investment in him.

 

I find it very discomforting that Stuart is willing to allow Mrs. Wolowitz to pamper him, feed him, clothe him, house him, and etc all for the joy of his company, which makes him a mild mooch in many respects, but being willing to take a massive amount of money from her while at the same time trying to edge out her son and make him less welcome in her home sends up massive red flags. Stuart has always been so poor that his mooching was sort of understandable, and we've seen him willingly allow Raj to indulge him, or haggle money out of Sheldon and the boys in the comic book store, but let's be honest, Mrs. Wolowitz is an older woman and this whole situation has suddenly taken a weird turn where it looks a lot like Stuart is mildly preying on a woman who is lonely and vulnerable.

 

Now, I do think that Stuart seems to genuinely care about Mrs. Wolowitz, and if he's going to reopen the comic book store he is - hopefully - going to get himself back on his feet. Except it's hard for me to understand why Stuart wants to go back into a business in which he was so desperately unhappy before. Just because...well....after so bravely combusting that status quo it's important to rebuild it even if it doesn't really make sense? No other ideas of what to do with this show? Stuart just has to have a comic book store because, er, he just does?

 

I hope that if there is a new comic book tore it's successful and if Stuart is going to continue to live with Mrs. Wolowitz he's going to bring something into her home and her life instead of just someone to be there for her to dote on. I guess we'll see how it goes, but I'm really not comfortable with the idea of several more months or years of Stuart mooching off of her.

Edited by Lionne
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@Lionne

There is going to be a new comic book store, I think they said so at CC.

They probably meant Stuart's one.

But where is Mrs. Wolowitz is getting all that money from?

I doubt she has a job.

Does being unemployed pay that well in the US?

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@Bangermain - Sounds like you and I had almost the exact same thought. While watching the episode I was like...."Wow, every creepy or uncomfortable thing that has maybe been here or there over the past 3 seasons just got jam packed into this one!" I'm grateful you mentioned the Stuart/Mrs. Wolowitz stuff on your list of "WTF" stuff from this episode, because I'm surprised by the general love of the Mrs. Wolowitz/Stuart stuff. It was kinda cute and could have been funny, but the situation there has taken a slightly darker turn for me in this episode.

 

When Stuart was being paid by Howard and Bernie to caretake Mrs. Wolowitz, and that the two of them really enjoyed each other's company, that was delightful. But this episode highlighted a problem that was been out there since Mrs. Wolowitz's leg healed and Howardette stopped paying Stuart, which is that Stuart has defaulted into being a mooch in this situation. And that mooching really took a giant and unpleasant leap forward in the way that Stuart made a deliberate stance to make Howard feel unwelcome in the house, and to suggest he had to call first before dropping by, while at the same time admitting that Mrs. Wolowitz was both at the point of buying him clothing and had made a huge financial investment in him.

 

I find it very discomforting that Stuart is willing to allow Mrs. Wolowitz to pamper him, feed him, clothe him, house him, and etc all for the joy of his company, which makes him a mild mooch in many respects, but being willing to take a massive amount of money from her while at the same time trying to edge out her son and make him less welcome in her home sends up massive red flags. Stuart has always been so poor that his mooching was sort of understandable, and we've seen him willingly allow Raj to indulge him, or haggle money out of Sheldon and the boys in the comic book store, but let's be honest, Mrs. Wolowitz is an older woman and this whole situation has suddenly taken a weird turn where it looks a lot like Stuart is mildly preying on a woman who is lonely and vulnerable.

 

Now, I do think that Stuart seems to genuinely care about Mrs. Wolowitz, and if he's going to reopen the comic book store he is - hopefully - going to get himself back on his feet. Except it's hard for me to understand why Stuart wants to go back into a business in which he was so desperately unhappy before. Just because...well....after so bravely combusting that status quo it's important to rebuild it even if it doesn't really make sense? No other ideas of what to do with this show? Stuart just has to have a comic book store because, er, he just does?

 

I hope that if there is a new comic book tore it's successful and if Stuart is going to continue to live with Mrs. Wolowitz he's going to bring something into her home and her life instead of just someone to be there for her to dote on. I guess we'll see how it goes, but I'm really not comfortable with the idea of several more months or years of Stuart mooching off of her.

FINALLY!! Someone said it! It's weird, it's creepy and I would be ok with it if Stuart wasn't deliberatly making Howard feel bad about.

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@Lionne

There is going to be a new comic book store, I think they said so at CC.

They probably meant Stuart's one.

But where is Mrs. Wolowitz is getting all that money from?

I doubt she has a job.

Does being unemployed pay that well in the US?

 

Well, that's an interesting question. Unemployment runs out, so Mrs. Wolowitz is not living off of that. What would make a lot more sense would be if Mr. Wolowitz actually died and Mrs. Wolowitz was living off of his social security. However, we know that Mr. Wolowitz abandoned her, so it's not like his benefits or income are going to support her. So, to be honest, her financial situation is really very mysterious - is it from a family inheritance or support, is it from disability, is it from savings? It doesn't make a lot of sense; might have to chalk it up to sitcom logic.

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@Lionne

There is going to be a new comic book store, I think they said so at CC.

They probably meant Stuart's one.

But where is Mrs. Wolowitz is getting all that money from?

I doubt she has a job.

Does being unemployed pay that well in the US?

 

 

I always assumed she was retired. Howard was in his 30's when the show started. On average, a parent would be retired by the time you are in your 30's.

 

We don't know what she did, but you could live comfortably off 401K's or pensions, if that's the case.

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I don't think there is anything wrong with Amy liking Penny or holding their relationship in high regard.  That's fine but the cheek touching scene was weird...l cringed and felt uncomfortable watching it. 

 

I Shamy.  I Lenny.  I Howardette.  

 

I also see a lot of different theories going re: Sheldon's comments about Amy's hair or romance.  I am happy for all my fellow shippers that can see it as Shamy just being Shamy.  I do not.  It is my belief that Shamy are firmly entrenched in push/pull at this time.  My S8 hope was that we would see a more unified front. I am not expecting flowers, cards, sappy romance from Shamy AT ALL.  These two are so unique.  I think there are many ways to develop the couple in a slow quirky way that can show a unified front.  I didn't see that last night.   By no means am I jumping ship or think they need to break up.  But yeah I feel the need to vent about it because I didn't like it. 

 

At Sram, interesting perspective about Emily making a play at Leonard if it goes south with Raj.  I really do think the writers left the door wide open for interesting plots to develop out of that story line. 

Edited by Denise07
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FINALLY!! Someone said it! It's weird, it's creepy and I would be ok with it if Stuart wasn't deliberatly making Howard feel bad about.

 

It's obvious to me that Debbie Wolowitz sees Stuart as her surrogate son, now that Howard has moved out, but unlike Raj, the desperate and despondent Stuart has no problem with all the attention she lavishes on him. While that, in and of itself, isn't so much a problem, what's really moved this from "creepy but harmless" to "offensive" is Stuart letting it all go to his head. While Debbie's treating him like a surrogate son, he's trying to act (deliberately or no) like a surrogate father to Howard, and that's just wrong no matter how you slice it. Methinks the writers need to wrap this storyline up and move on, as it's just not that funny anymore and puts Stuart in a really bad light.

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FINALLY!! Someone said it! It's weird, it's creepy and I would be ok with it if Stuart wasn't deliberatly making Howard feel bad about.

Yes!!! It was funny in the season opener but now it's just taking a turn for the weird and creepy.  Why are they suddently on this creepy bent with the show, I don't get it.

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@Lionne

There is going to be a new comic book store, I think they said so at CC.

They probably meant Stuart's one.

But where is Mrs. Wolowitz is getting all that money from?

I doubt she has a job.

Does being unemployed pay that well in the US?

They said a comic store would be present. Not necessarily Stuart's.

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Last night after I recovered from the shock, it finally dawned on me that when Sheldon said he wasn't in a romantic relationship, what he means is according to HIS weird definition of romance.  From previous episodes, we know he thinks of romance as wine, eye-gazing, etc, and he likes that the closeness inventory takes the romance out of relationships.  He wasn't saying they're just friends, (which is what I thought he was saying at first) because he clearly acknowledges them as a physical boy-girl relationship.  Their relationship is just fine as we saw last week; there's no need to break up.  This was just a supremely badly written episode all around.

 

I absolutely agree with Lio and Bangermain (forgive me if I've omitted any names) that something was really, really off with the writing this week.  They resurrected all the awful plot points from the past in an "I can't look at it but I can't not look" kind of painful way that made almost all the characters look like creeps and/or jerks.  They've had off episodes here and there before, and I hope this is just that.  One episode isn't a trend, so for those of us who hated it, let's don't despair.  Maybe it's this year's "Itchy Sweater".

 

Still, this is definitely in the bottom 5 of least favorite episodes, and it might even be the very bottom.

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Yes!!! It was funny in the season opener but now it's just taking a turn for the weird and creepy. Why are they suddently on this creepy bent with the show, I don't get it.

So the angora rabbit gag WAS the best part? I thought so. Everything else feels like a setup, with the punchline and the laugh still hanging.

Last night after I recovered from the shock, it finally dawned on me that when Sheldon said he wasn't in a romantic relationship, what he means is according to HIS weird definition of romance. From previous episodes, we know he thinks of romance as wine, eye-gazing, etc, and he likes that the closeness inventory takes the romance out of relationships. He wasn't saying they're just friends, (which is what I thought he was saying at first) because he clearly acknowledges them as a physical boy-girl relationship. Their relationship is just fine as we saw last week; there's no need to break up. This was just a supremely badly written episode all around.

I absolutely agree with Lio and Bangermain (forgive me if I've omitted any names) that something was really, really off with the writing this week. They resurrected all the awful plot points from the past in an "I can't look at it but I can't not look" kind of painful way that made almost all the characters look like creeps and/or jerks. They've had off episodes here and there before, and I hope this is just that. One episode isn't a trend, so for those of us who hated it, let's don't despair. Maybe it's this year's "Itchy Sweater".

Still, this is definitely in the bottom 5 of least favorite episodes, and it might even be the very bottom.

I wonder if they aren't recapping for the late arrivals. A lot of exposition about Penny/ Raj to set up the Emily/Penny story. And they were going ugly there anyway, so they threw on a whole lot more ugly while they were at it and have really set the scene for the Howard/Debbie/Stuart triangle. I don't know what to say about Shamy that's nice for them so....

Or there is no reason and they forgot themselves. Idk.

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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So by that reasoning if he called her (to) fat for example, it would be okay?

- She obviously isn't fat

- Everyone knows it

By that defenition he (and everyone) can get away with any insult.

It's not about this single one line, he's been dismissive of her for the most part she'd became his GF.

But let's just say we disagree.

he has called her fat in a way... he told her to lay off the donuts... then in another scene, Amy got mad at him and said as they were going down the stairs, 'I had/ate a donut this morning you jerk!"

Edited by Kelli

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As of this moment there are more "Okay, Bad and Very Bad" votes than "excellent, Very Good and Good" for this episode. That's rare.

 

I noticed that; it's very rare.

 

I am shocked by the recappers reaction to this episode, though. Many of them feel that this episode finally gets TBBT back to "normal," and "funny again" for the season, and I am just in shock that anyone who knows the show and has watched the whole series would think that this mean-spirited and creepy pile of schlock was normal for a show that used to be so sweet and smart and funny.

 

Since Molaro took over, there's been a lot more weird inconsistencies for me with the writing. It's like there's one set of writers who think Amy has no nickname from Sheldon, and that he would come up with things like "Gollum" or "Fester" for her. And then there are the writers who have actually written episodes preceding that one where he's referred to her several times as "Vixen."

 

As far as I am concerned, the "Team Gollum" writing staff showed up to pen this episode. Their counterbalance on "Team Vixen" were in the minority; Lenny or Shamy scenes over finances and the tag scene with the boys was the only ones that really felt like the usual show or characters as I know them. If I could sweep all of Team Gollum into the trash and get episodes just written by Team Vixen from now on, that would be great, but by the middle of last season I was slowly settling into the fact that the material produced by this new writing team had a slightly schizo element to it. I've just never seen all of the negative elements or Team Gollum viewpoint all poured into one episode like last nights.

 

I wonder if Bill or Chuck even bothered to proof read this time around. It was amazingly awful. With the exception of Leonard, I found every single character unlikeable in this episode. Whereas usually I simply love them all. I'll be shocked if ratings stay high for this meaner, crueler and more toxic version of the show.

 

Not to mention that the wasted potential over the 4 guys co-owning a comic book store is the worst "plot that goes nowhere" since Serial Apeist.

Edited by Lionne
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I noticed that; it's very rare.

 

I am shocked by the recappers reaction to this episode, though. Many of them feel that this episode finally gets TBBT back to "normal," and "funny again" for the season, and I am just in shock that anyone who knows the show and has watched the whole series would think that this mean-spirited and creepy pile of schlock was normal for a show that used to be so sweet and smart and funny.

 

Since Molaro took over, there's been a lot more weird inconsistencies for me with the writing. It's like there's one set of writers who think Amy has no nickname from Sheldon, and that he would come up with things like "Gollum" or "Fester" for her. And then there are the writers who have actually written episodes preceding that one where he's referred to her several times as "Vixen."

 

As far as I am concerned, the "Team Gollum" writing staff showed up to pen this episode. Their counterbalance on "Team Vixen" were in the minority; Lenny or Shamy scenes over finances and the tag scene with the boys was the only ones that really felt like the usual show or characters as I know them. If I could sweep all of Team Gollum into the trash and get episodes just written by Team Vixen from now on, that would be great, but by the middle of last season I was slowly settling into the fact that the material produced by this new writing team had a slightly schizo element to it. I've just never seen all of the negative elements or Team Gollum viewpoint all poured into one episode like last nights.

 

I wonder if Bill or Chuck even bothered to proof read this time around. It was amazingly awful. With the exception of Leonard, I found every single character unlikeable in this episode. Whereas usually I simply love them all. I'll be shocked if ratings stay high for this meaner, crueler and more toxic version of the show.

 

Not to mention that the wasted potential over the 4 guys co-owning a comic book store is the worst "plot that goes nowhere" since Serial Apeist.

 

 

 

And I don't know about Lorre but I know Prady is there everyday and he get the Script before the first Table Read. 

 

Chcuk has been mostly occupied with TAAHM and now  Mom which is where most of his attention is focused at the moment. He has four sitcoms on the air and so it probably hard to focus on all of them at the same time, When TAAHM goes off the air he'll probably start focusing more on BBT.  

 

Norman Lea in the 1970s at one time had 6 Sitcoms on the air at the same time. After his Third one he had to find other producers to oversee his other Shows which is where Lorre is at the moment. 

Edited by MTBigBangTheoryFan

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