Pennys Character Has Changed, Saddens Me

[Strawberry PopTart Fan]

Kaley wanted her hair short in real life because it's easier to maintain. She's so athletic and rides and competes a lot,exercises, spins, does yoga, so it makes sense. According to an on set interview with Johnny before S 8, she said she ran it by the producers and (I think) the writers, sending them pictures as she cut it a few times, going shorter and shorter. They were ok with it. I think she mentioned that she thought it worked with Penny having a new career (But she cut her hair because she wanted to, not for Penny).) It was a funny interview between her and Johnny and she started out complementing him on HIS new hair cut, completely ignoring the elephant in the room-HERS, until later in the interview then explained how it came about.

 

So, to me , the bottom line is Kaley wants short hair because it suits her life style. She got the ok from her bosses. It wasn't an "artistic" decision to change the Penny character.And they could have used wigs or extensions if they thought it was necessary. I wonder if they anticipated the controversy which would ensue. 

[phantagrae]

Kaley wanted her hair short in real life because it's easier to maintain. She's so athletic and rides and competes a lot,exercises, spins, does yoga, so it makes sense. According to an on set interview with Johnny before S 8, she said she ran it by the producers and (I think) the writers, sending them pictures as she cut it a few times, going shorter and shorter. They were ok with it. I think she mentioned that she thought it worked with Penny having a new career (But she cut her hair because she wanted to, not for Penny).) It was a funny interview between her and Johnny and she started out complementing him on HIS new hair cut, completely ignoring the elephant in the room-HERS, until later in the interview then explained how it came about.

 

So, to me , the bottom line is Kaley wants short hair because it suits her life style. She got the ok from her bosses. It wasn't an "artistic" decision to change the Penny character.And they could have used wigs or extensions if they thought it was necessary. I wonder if they anticipated the controversy which would ensue. 

 

Exactly--Kaley made a decision about her own hair and they wrote it into the show, but there was no character motivation for cutting her hair.

 

And as it suits Kaley, it similarly suits Penny's spunky personality.  IMO.

[Tensor]

Besides, if the producers wanted her to have long hair, they would have just put her in a wig. I have a feeling they felt her haircut fit with her career path change. I can't remember if it was in an interview about or the links to the production stills of Burning Bodhi, when she made the comment that was something along the line of "...here's the reason for my short hair".

[meka3000]

Where did all these rules about haircuts come from?  A magazine?  I've never heard of any of them.

 

Talk to brides-to-be.  I remember my brothers wife cut her hair AFTER their wedding since she wanted long for the wedding.  A bride getting a hair cut BEFORE the wedding is extremely rare.

 

There really are no rules anymore about when or if or why one cuts their hair.

 

I never said they were rules, merely trends/traditions.

 

And it doesn't matter what other sales reps look like.  Why would she want to be just another member of the long blond hair herd?  If having a snappy hairstyle helps her stand out, then that can only be a good thing.

 

Somehow I think the paying customer would pay MORE attention to the lady with long hair more than the one with Penny's short hair.  Standing out doesn't AUTOMATICALLY mean you get noticed.

 

I think that her haircut really does fit her personality.  She's fun and young and spunky, which is what her haircut is like--trendy, cute, versatile, energetic.  (I just saw a similar cut in one of those books at the hair salon.)

 

the haircut is trendy on THE RIGHT PERSON's facial frame. and versatile? there was more versatility in her long hair than there has EVER BEEN in her short hair.  I don't see any energy in her hair being all buttoned up on her.  It looks TOO CONSERVATIVE and lifeless on her, and that just doesn't feel like Penny's character IMO.  Also I'm willing to bet the model with that cut you saw probably had better cheekbones.

 

And if she likes her short hair--which she does, since she hasn't had any issues with it (and neither has Leonard because he didn't fall in love with her because of her hair)--then maybe she wants to have short hair for her wedding.

 

Again that just doesn't sound to me like Penny at all.  That's just me.

 

I don't think her haircut has been at all detrimental to her character or the show or the humor.  I'm constantly baffled by this hangup.

 

I just think it makes for a lackluster visual (I know I'm not alone on this) where you combine the short hair cut with her previous casual wardrobe and it ages the character by about ten years.  It makes the character look less cute and her face looks harder without the long hair to soften her face.  My girlfriend who is a fashion designer goes nuts when we watch the show together, because she's helped clients that have had short hair before pull that look off, but when she sees Penny wearing the same type of clothes she did in seasons 5-7 it makes her cringe.  Most females that have good fashion sense who get a pixie cut CHANGE the type of clothes they wear TO MATCH the hair.  For some reason the wardrobe department is stuck in this puzzling mindset that ANY clothes can match with ANY hair.  Most fashion designers/hair stylists would laugh at that thought.

It's why she usually hasn't had anything bad to say about Kaley in it, because she usually wears clothes that compliment it.

Kaley wanted her hair short in real life because it's easier to maintain. She's so athletic and rides and competes a lot,exercises, spins, does yoga, so it makes sense. According to an on set interview with Johnny before S 8, she said she ran it by the producers and (I think) the writers, sending them pictures as she cut it a few times, going shorter and shorter. They were ok with it. I think she mentioned that she thought it worked with Penny having a new career (But she cut her hair because she wanted to, not for Penny).) It was a funny interview between her and Johnny and she started out complementing him on HIS new hair cut, completely ignoring the elephant in the room-HERS, until later in the interview then explained how it came about.

 

So, to me , the bottom line is Kaley wants short hair because it suits her life style. She got the ok from her bosses. It wasn't an "artistic" decision to change the Penny character.And they could have used wigs or extensions if they thought it was necessary. I wonder if they anticipated the controversy which would ensue. 

 

I remember her saying she wanted to experiment with new hair.  I don't remember her lifestyle ever being an issue on that decision.

 

Again it's not Kaley I have a problem with the hair on, it's her character Penny where her short hair (along with her previous wardrobe) that doesn't work for me.

but there was no character motivation for cutting her hair.

 

And as it suits Kaley, it similarly suits Penny's spunky personality.  IMO.

-That's part of the problem.

 

-Not with her fashion choices in season 8 it doesn't (a few exceptions aside).

[Stephen Hawking]

I could cope with seeing Penny in some of Servalan's outfits. That'd give Leonard a shock. Hehehe.

 

I don't think even Servalan's outfits would do as much for him, as Penny's, at the end of The Raiders Minimization.   

Edited March 28, 2015 by Stephen Hawking

[phantagrae]

Talk to brides-to-be.  I remember my brothers wife cut her hair AFTER their wedding since she wanted long for the wedding.  A bride getting a hair cut BEFORE the wedding is extremely rare.

 

 

I never said they were rules, merely trends/traditions.

 

 

Somehow I think the paying customer would pay MORE attention to the lady with long hair more than the one with Penny's short hair.  Standing out doesn't AUTOMATICALLY mean you get noticed.

 

 

the haircut is trendy on THE RIGHT PERSON's facial frame. and versatile? there was more versatility in her long hair than there has EVER BEEN in her short hair.  I don't see any energy in her hair being all buttoned up on her.  It looks TOO CONSERVATIVE and lifeless on her, and that just doesn't feel like Penny's character IMO.  Also I'm willing to bet the model with that cut you saw probably had better cheekbones.

 

 

Again that just doesn't sound to me like Penny at all.  That's just me.

 

 

I just think it makes for a lackluster visual (I know I'm not alone on this) where you combine the short hair cut with her previous casual wardrobe and it ages the character by about ten years.  It makes the character look less cute and her face looks harder without the long hair to soften her face.  My girlfriend who is a fashion designer goes nuts when we watch the show together, because she's helped clients that have had short hair before pull that look off, but when she sees Penny wearing the same type of clothes she did in seasons 5-7 it makes her cringe.  Most females that have good fashion sense who get a pixie cut CHANGE the type of clothes they wear TO MATCH the hair.  For some reason the wardrobe department is stuck in this puzzling mindset that ANY clothes can match with ANY hair.  Most fashion designers/hair stylists would laugh at that thought.

It's why she usually hasn't had anything bad to say about Kaley in it, because she usually wears clothes that compliment it.

 

I remember her saying she wanted to experiment with new hair.  I don't remember her lifestyle ever being an issue on that decision.

 

Again it's not Kaley I have a problem with the hair on, it's her character Penny where her short hair (along with her previous wardrobe) that doesn't work for me.

-That's part of the problem.

 

-Not with her fashion choices in season 8 it doesn't (a few exceptions aside).

Your assumptions and judgments are cracking me up. Do you have some kind of objective evidence apart from your own point of view (and the opinion of your sister-in-law) to back up all the random assertions you make? And how much of this is your objection to Kaley as opposed to Penny?

You say that you think that "the paying customer would pay more attention" to the one with the long blond hair (who, according to you, is like all other sales reps), but again, you are stating your opinion as if you've taken a poll, when you have no way to back up that assertion. How do you know that any "paying customer" would prefer a sales rep with long hair as opposed to one with short hair? Is there some rule book that says reps with long hair get noticed more or do more business?

In the long run, I don't think any of your assertions make any difference because it's about the internal logic of the story the writers are telling and their understanding of Penny, rather than your assertions of what you think Penny would prefer, or anything about Kaley's cheekbones. Are you trying to say that Kaley isn't pretty enough to wear short hair?

I think her short hair is versatile in a different way than her long hair was. Yes, with long hair you can put it up in a variety of ways, but we've already seen Penny wear her short hair styled in different ways.

As for the wardrobe stuff you mention, I haven't seen anything that ages her, especially in the way you say, despite what your friend thinks. The point is that there's a difference in what people in the real world may do and what the characters do, and what look the producers are looking for for any of the characters. Penny isn't a fashion model, even if she is trendier than most of the others. She dresses casually because that's the nature of the character. When she wants to dress up, she does.

Sorry if the producers of the show aren't as sophisticated as you and your friend.

[meka3000]

Your assumptions and judgments are cracking me up. Do you have some kind of objective evidence apart from your own point of view (and the opinion of your sister-in-law) to back up all the random assertions you make? 

 

Random?  I've got three words for you, Post Wedding Haircut.  That phrase didn't become a thing by accident.

 

And how much of this is your objection to Kaley as opposed to Penny?

 

Did you miss the part where I said "it's not Kaley I have issues with on the haircut, it's her character Penny."?  I thought I was clear on that issue.

You say that you think that "the paying customer would pay more attention" to the one with the long blond hair (who, according to you, is like all other sales reps), but again, you are stating your opinion as if you've taken a poll, when you have no way to back up that assertion. How do you know that any "paying customer" would prefer a sales rep with long hair as opposed to one with short hair? Is there some rule book that says reps with long hair get noticed more or do more business?

 

Well my mother has been a director of nursing for 20 years now.  She's seen many pharmaceutical reps both male and female, she can attest to the fact that short haired female reps were rare sightings in that line of work.

In the long run, I don't think any of your assertions make any difference because it's about the internal logic of the story the writers are telling and their understanding of Penny, rather than your assertions of what you think Penny would prefer, or anything about Kaley's cheekbones.

 

So why is it a problem for you that I express an opinion where I disagree with their internal logic of the story and character in this instance?

 

Are you trying to say that Kaley isn't pretty enough to wear short hair?

 

I think short hair isn't her best look (an opinion my GF shares), is there something fundamentally wrong with having that opinion?  Or have we become SO POLITICALLY CORRECT that it's now offensive to say some people don't look as good with some haircuts, clothes, etc.?

 

Also let me stress this again in that Kaley dresses in a way where she realizes that the new haircut works better with certain clothes than others.  Her character Penny DOES NOT.

I think her short hair is versatile in a different way than her long hair was. Yes, with long hair you can put it up in a variety of ways, but we've already seen Penny wear her short hair styled in different ways.

 

I can count on one hand the ways those looked.  Doesn't sound that versatile IMO.

 

As for the wardrobe stuff you mention, I haven't seen anything that ages her, especially in the way you say, despite what your friend thinks.

 

Sorry but we disagree wholeheartedly.

 

The point is that there's a difference in what people in the real world may do and what the characters do, and what look the producers are looking for for any of the characters. Penny isn't a fashion model, even if she is trendier than most of the others. She dresses casually because that's the nature of the character. When she wants to dress up, she does.

 

Except Penny's character has ALWAYS prided herself on her fashion sense and what works with her looks.  I never said casual clothes couldn't complement her hair style, just that the characters choices in casual clothes very rarely do.

 

Sorry if the producers of the show aren't as sophisticated as you and your friend.

 

The thing is they used to be until this season.

[ATOB]

A few quick points. Penny IS older, she's going to start looking older regardless of her hair cut. Time is a cruel bitch. Don't I know it.

Short hair vs long hair: attracting a mate. Penny is engaged and settled and not looking to attract any other men. Her long hair (which is great man bait) is superfluous.

Short hair vs long hair: first impressions. Easier to be dismissed as a bimbo with long/mid length blonde hair. There're a few "blonde" jokes on the "funniest jokes I know" thread here in fact, courtesy of Mr Martin Pollard, if you would like me to back up my assertation with an example. Women with short hair are taken more seriously in general, so I would dispute Meka's assumption about the paying customer's preference. I'd rather buy a product from a person who understands the ins and outs of what they are selling and feel I can trust their advice. If I am judging them, most probably completely incorrectly by their girly hair and glittery nails, then I am more likely to disregard their advice.

I've been mistaken for an airhead many times. Sometimes I play along, sometimes I set the person straight, depends on the situation. My own short hair cut was a real eye-opener, I compared it to Harry Potter's Invisibility Cloak. Bliss actually. My husband hated it, vehemently, so I've grown it out (not very feminist I know, but hey, you do these things for those you love, plus my kids hated it too, kept telling me I was the dead spit their uncle....and no one wants to look like their brother).

[Stephen Hawking]

IMO, some women do really suit short hair.

 

Examples that come to mind are Jacqueline Pearce, Ellen Degeneres and Laurie Lathem.

[MTBigBangTheoryFan]

 

IMO, some women do really suit short hair.

 

Examples that come to mind are Jacqueline Pearce, Ellen Degeneres and Laurie Lathem.

 

 

I agree. some women look great with Short Hair. Some it suites some it doesn't. Some look better with short Hair then Long and  vice versa. 

 

A Good example is Amy Robach The News anchor of Good Morning America. She had Long Hair while NBC and her first year and a half at ABC until she cut it short last year and while she look great with Long Hair  I have say she look even better with Short Hair then Long. It really does suite her. 

 

 

 

 

Now  I have to say I have really gotten use to Penny with Short Hair now and have come to like it a lot. She has especially look great with it in the last few Episodes that have aired. It really does suite both Penny (Today) and Kaley. 

Edited March 29, 2015 by MTBigBangTheoryFan

[meka3000]

A few quick points. Penny IS older, she's going to start looking older regardless of her hair cut. Time is a cruel bitch. Don't I know it.

 

I'm not denying that, but I don't think it's a coincidence that this started being a more tangible issue for her character (for some viewers anyways) after the haircut happened.

 

Short hair vs long hair: attracting a mate. Penny is engaged and settled and not looking to attract any other men. Her long hair (which is great man bait) is superfluous.

 

Except Penny has used her "man bait" to her advantage before when in a relationship (see The Tenure Turbulance & The Love Spell Potential as examples), heck it's still something that would work to her advantage in her line of work now.

 

Short hair vs long hair: first impressions. Easier to be dismissed as a bimbo with long/mid length blonde hair. There're a few "blonde" jokes on the "funniest jokes I know" thread here in fact, courtesy of Mr Martin Pollard, if you would like me to back up my assertation with an example.

 

Okay but when has her looks been a problem for her, in terms of being pre-judged?  The times Penny's character has been written off by people as a "dumb blonde" is when she opened her mouth and said something stupid.

 

Women with short hair are taken more seriously in general, so I would dispute Meka's assumption about the paying customer's preference.

 

Do you have something to back this up either way?

 

Again my issue with Penny's hair and her cutting it THAT SHORT is mostly about context.  Mainly why she cut it THAT SHORT and how she presents herself with that cut.  I haven't been terribly thrilled with either of those things.

 

 

Just to show I'm not against it in practice, I actually loved Mariska Hargitay's pixie cut for her character Olivia Benson (Law and Order SVU).  The cut was mostly an accident that she thought was going to get her fired with Dick Wolf over.  But they made the best of it, and it actually gave her character a harder edged look in seasons 2-5, which fit with her character being the "Queen Bitch" that sexual predators would fear when she got her turn with them in the interrogation room.  It also fit with the grittier tone of the show.  It won me over because of the context.  I also think Mariska has the facial features to pull it off to, so that didn't hurt either.

Edited March 31, 2015 by meka3000

[ATOB]

I'm not denying that, but I don't think it's a coincidence that this started being a more tangible issue for her character (for some viewers anyways) after the haircut happened.

 

 

Well, it's a big change isn't it?  Certainly made a few people sit up and pay attention at any rate.  Perhaps there were comments about how Penny's ageing, perhaps there weren't, I couldn't tell you, however, the haircut gives those who would comment on such things a platform to launch from doesn't it?  Those horrific 'circle of shame' photos are very popular, everyone loves to stick the boot in, have a sneer, make themselves feel better about their own lot. Kaley's been in the business a long time, she knows how it works.  

 

 

 

Except Penny has used her "man bait" to her advantage before when in a relationship (see The Tenure Turbulance & The Love Spell Potential as examples), heck it's still something that would work to her advantage in her line of work now.

 

 

Well what's different is their engagement. Also, I would disagree about long hair being an advantage in a sales environment where you are pitching to doctors.  Selling a different product to a different demographic, then perhaps, maybe, but pharmaceutical sales calls for some 'serious' hair.

 

 

 

 

Okay but when has her looks been a problem for her, in terms of being pre-judged?  The times Penny's character has been written off by people as a "dumb blonde" is when she opened her mouth and said something stupid.

 

 

Do you have something to back this up either way?

 

 

 

 

It takes 1 tenth of a second to form a first impression.  Like all sales people, Penny has a script, and, judging by her success, this is where her acting experience is paying off.  Very unlikely that she'll understand the ins and outs of what she's selling, but her clientele will and, as long as she's briefed to answer any potential questions, then she shouldn't blurt out anything "dumb".

 

Do I have something to back up my claims that serious sales people need serious hair? Really? Isn't this just a given?  Ah well, that's what google's for eh, so with a click of my magic mouse I give you this article which rather neatly summarises the research into how people judge by appearances, with a particular and very detailed emphasis on hair length.  If this is not enough, then the author lists her sources at the end of the article and you can analyse the market research data yourself by downloading the relevant papers.

 

http://amyljorgensen.com/2013/10/17/cutting-remarks-how-a-womens-hair-length-affects-her-brand/

 

And in keeping with the growing army of women who look better with short hair, I give you Melissa McBride (Carol, Walking Dead).

 

 

    

[Strawberry PopTart Fan]

Interesting article! Thanks. Such a fascinating subject! And the whole "to go grey or not to go grey" is a great sub-topic!

[meka3000]

Well, it's a big change isn't it?  Certainly made a few people sit up and pay attention at any rate.  

 

So did the government shutdown, but no one was thrilled about that were they?  

 

I think a bigger problem is that on a show where development happens at a gradual pace to get it's audience used to change (doesn't work for everyone, but it works for this fanbase most of the time), This one happened instantly and it's audience was given next to no time to get used to this change compared to the changes that have happened in the past.

 

Perhaps there were comments about how Penny's ageing, perhaps there weren't, I couldn't tell you, however, the haircut gives those who would comment on such things a platform to launch from doesn't it?  Those horrific 'circle of shame' photos are very popular, everyone loves to stick the boot in, have a sneer, make themselves feel better about their own lot.

 

Not everyone is out to put someone down to make themselves feel better.  Some people simply have an opinion on said matter, without having any intention of malice.

 

 

Well what's different is their engagement.

 

 

Didn't stop her from flirting with the eurologist played by Billy Bob Thornton this season.  The only difference it made was her hiding the ring.

 

Also, I would disagree about long hair being an advantage in a sales environment where you are pitching to doctors.  Selling a different product to a different demographic, then perhaps, maybe, but pharmaceutical sales calls for some 'serious' hair.

 

Okay but what quantifies as "serious hair" in the eye of the beholder?  The idea that long hair makes anyone look less serious sounds ridiculous IMO.

 

Do I have something to back up my claims that serious sales people need serious hair? Really? Isn't this just a given?

 

Okay but what hair length qualifies as serious hair?  Trying to quantify what hair is and isn't serious sounds ridiculous.  Some people look better with specific looks in some peoples eyes.  Saying you can just "slap on serious hair" to any person and think they'll be taken seriously sounds like a pipe dream.  I've got a better observation; hair styles and what works with specific people IS NOT an exact science.  Some men/women are blessed with different facial frames that can make some hair easy or hard to pull off.

 

Ah well, that's what google's for eh, so with a click of my magic mouse I give you this article which rather neatly summarises the research into how people judge by appearances, with a particular and very detailed emphasis on hair length.  If this is not enough, then the author lists her sources at the end of the article and you can analyse the market research data yourself by downloading the relevant papers.

 

http://amyljorgensen.com/2013/10/17/cutting-remarks-how-a-womens-hair-length-affects-her-brand/ 

 

Very interesting article, though my problem is there is ALOT of things in those articles she didn't use.  She also specifically herself said she didn't agree with all of them.  Also her experiment with short hair was based on ONLY her experience, (though I'll give the devil her due here, she can pull off the short hair look).  How about how other people dealt with short hair?

 

Also a couple of these studies seem a tad dated.  The one from the 1960's from UNI immediately springs to mind.

[Denise07]

I, for one, am glad that Penny has changed over the years.  I  have enjoyed watching her change and transform from the pilot until now. 

 

Her haircut is haircut.  Whether a person likes it or not has no bearing over the fact that the Penny character has evolved (IMO) over time.

 

It's not my favorite look on Kaley but, so what?  I still like and respect her and find her cute, attractive.  Maybe I am just jelly that I can't pull off a short haircut without looking like a mushroom head (I kid...well not about my hair...I am really not jelly though)? 

 

As a matter of fact, overall, I would have checked out of TBBT years ago if the characters hadn't grown and change over the years.  That would make this TBBT fan SAD. 

[ATOB]

So did the government shutdown, but no one was thrilled about that were they?  

 

I think a bigger problem is that on a show where development happens at a gradual pace to get it's audience used to change (doesn't work for everyone, but it works for this fanbase most of the time), This one happened instantly and it's audience was given next to no time to get used to this change compared to the changes that have happened in the past.

 

 

Not everyone is out to put someone down to make themselves feel better.  Some people simply have an opinion on said matter, without having any intention of malice.

 

 

 

 

Didn't stop her from flirting with the eurologist played by Billy Bob Thornton this season.  The only difference it made was her hiding the ring.

 

 

Okay but what quantifies as "serious hair" in the eye of the beholder?  The idea that long hair makes anyone look less serious sounds ridiculous IMO.

 

 

Okay but what hair length qualifies as serious hair?  Trying to quantify what hair is and isn't serious sounds ridiculous.  Some people look better with specific looks in some peoples eyes.  Saying you can just "slap on serious hair" to any person and think they'll be taken seriously sounds like a pipe dream.  I've got a better observation; hair styles and what works with specific people IS NOT an exact science.  Some men/women are blessed with different facial frames that can make some hair easy or hard to pull off.

 

 

http://amyljorgensen.com/2013/10/17/cutting-remarks-how-a-womens-hair-length-affects-her-brand/ 

 

Very interesting article, though my problem is there is ALOT of things in those articles she didn't use.  She also specifically herself said she didn't agree with all of them.  Also her experiment with short hair was based on ONLY her experience, (though I'll give the devil her due here, she can pull off the short hair look).  How about how other people dealt with short hair?

 

Also a couple of these studies seem a tad dated.  The one from the 1960's from UNI immediately springs to mind.

I'll go through point by point, but it's just too difficult to split the quotes on my phone, anyhoooo....

The producers could've easily wigged Penny. They made the decision not to. Clearly, for them, Kaley's look fits Penny's journey. Not everyone's going to like it, and of course you have a right to your own opinion. I was the person who mused on what it would take to engender a similar sentiment in myself, how much would a character need to change for me to say I no longer recognised them? I'm not challenging you for your difference of opinion but because I detect an mendacious air in what you say.

Neither am I accusing you of malice. I do however, stand by my assertation that you would not be motivated to come here and declare that Penny looks ten years older without the haircut as a catalyst.

As for the flirting with Billy Bob, she wants to sell her product, she'll use what she's got. Not all doctors are male (and desperate). Flirting's not going to cut the mustard with Emily and her ilk.

What's serious hair? Y'see this is where I find you disingenuous. As a person with "a better observation" I shouldn't need to tell you. I've even gone to the trouble of scouting an article that summarises market research on the subject in a perspicuous and succinct way.

You have an unguarded moment of verity with your "some people look better with specific looks in some peoples eyes" and viola, there squateth the toad of truth! Have some courage in your convictions, you'll not be alone as a man who doesn't like short hair on women. There're plenty of blogs out there vilifying those shaven-headed harpies. My husband counts in these numbers. Oh the tantrum when I revealed my pixie crop. The wailings, the comparison to a paradoxical Samson and Delilah! At last he was free from the strangling bind of his sexual attraction to me, with my locks fell my power and to prove the point he implemented a sex ban (which lasted the whole of three days before he resumed humping my leg like a randy Jack Russell).

Look, the author of that article studied the research into personal branding and applied it to her own experience. Like all market research, opinions will differ and will never be entirely uniform. In the comments section you'll find the testimonies of other women, and one man who hates short hair (how 'bout that)!

[meka3000]

I'm not challenging you for your difference of opinion but because I detect an mendacious air in what you say.

 

How so?

 

Neither am I accusing you of malice. I do however, stand by my assertation that you would not be motivated to come here and declare that Penny looks ten years older without the haircut as a catalyst.

 

Actually I'm more motivated in giving a more nuanced interpretation on the matter, especially since a nuanced and detailed interpretation on the issue was something I have yet to come across here (of course there COULD be one on here, and I just failed to find it).  A detailed interpretation that's not as extreme as the OP's, or like the people on the internet who abandoned the show because of said haircut.  But doesn't like it for specific reasons, but is NOT a deal breaker for me on her character or the show.

 

To be fair, I'll admit that my comments didn't do a good job of getting that intention across with much in the way of clarity.

 

Also I said the haircut was a factor, to go along with her wardrobe choices.  I certainly didn't see her as looking "10 yrs. older" in her prom dress.

 

As for the flirting with Billy Bob, she wants to sell her product, she'll use what she's got.

 

Doesn't this just prove my point?  That being engaged doesn't stop her from using her "feminine charms"?

 

What's serious hair? Y'see this is where I find you disingenuous. As a person with "a better observation" I shouldn't need to tell you.

 

So you think I'm disingenuous because I don't have "a better observation" than you?  I can feel the arrogance and ignorance resonating from your comment there.

 

Also I didn't ask you specifically "what's serious hair?", I asked you what does and doesn't qualify as "serious hair"?  Where do we draw the line, as far as hair length?  All you did was read my comments and interpreted them in a very reductive and presumptuous manner.

 

I've even gone to the trouble of scouting an article that summarises market research on the subject in a perspicuous and succinct way.

 

That's fine, I don't agree with all of her article or some of her research (and she didn't agree with all of it either).  Is there something wrong with that?

 

You have an unguarded moment of verity with your "some people look better with specific looks in some peoples eyes" and viola, there squateth the toad of truth! Have some courage in your convictions, you'll not be alone as a man who doesn't like short hair on women.

 

Your putting words in my mouth, please stop.  I never implied that I don't like short hair on all women, I SPECIFICALLY SAID, I don't think it's a look all women can pull off.  Heck I even listed an example above on someone who I think can pull short hair off (Mariska Hargitay), I also think Scarlett Johanson's short do recently looks better than I thought it would on her.  Your seeing in my words WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE.  Not what I actually said.

Edited April 2, 2015 by meka3000

[ATOB]

How so?

 

 

Actually I'm more motivated in giving a more nuanced interpretation on the matter, especially since a nuanced and detailed interpretation on the issue was something I have yet to come across here (of course there COULD be one on here, and I just failed to find it).  A detailed interpretation that's not as extreme as the OP's, or like the people on the internet who abandoned the show because of said haircut.  But doesn't like it for specific reasons, but is NOT a deal breaker for me on her character or the show.

 

To be fair, I'll admit that my comments didn't do a good job of getting that intention across with much in the way of clarity.

 

Also I said the haircut was a factor, to go along with her wardrobe choices.  I certainly didn't see her as looking "10 yrs. older" in her prom dress.

 

 

Doesn't this just prove my point?  That being engaged doesn't stop her from using her "feminine charms"?

 

 

So you think I'm disingenuous because I don't have "a better observation" than you?  I can feel the arrogance and ignorance resonating from your comment there.

 

Also I didn't ask you specifically "what's serious hair?", I asked you what does and doesn't qualify as "serious hair"?  Where do we draw the line, as far as hair length?  All you did was read my comments and interpreted them in a very reductive and presumptuous manner.

 

 

That's fine, I don't agree with all of her article or some of her research (and she didn't agree with all of it either).  Is there something wrong with that?

 

 

Your putting words in my mouth, please stop.  I never implied that I don't like short hair on all women, I SPECIFICALLY SAID, I don't think it's a look all women can pull off.  Heck I even listed an example above on someone who I think can pull short hair off (Mariska Hargitay), I also think Scarlett Johanson's short do recently looks better than I thought it would on her.  Your seeing in my words WHAT YOU WANT TO SEE.  Not what I actually said.

And there it is again. Once more that crafty cat sneaks from the bag. " Looks better than I thought it would" in relation to Scarlett Johansson, gives you away again. Your automatic assumption and prejudice is that short hair will look bad, there it is, that there is the mendacity I refererenced.

Will be back later to answer the rest...real life beckons.....

[meka3000]

Looks better than I thought it would" in relation to Scarlett Johansson, gives you away again. Your automatic assumption and prejudice is that short hair will look bad, there it is, that there is the mendacity I refererenced.

 

THAT is what you took from that? That if I thought "it looks better on Scarlett Johanson than I thought it would", it means that I view ALL WOMEN in that light in terms of having short hair?

 

All your doing is proving that your reading into my said thoughts what you want to read, not what I ACTUALLY SAID.

[ATOB]

Here's what you said....

I also think Scarlett Johanson's short do recently looks better than I thought it would on her.  

Undoctored, I assure you. Now, if you were predisposed to favour short hair then perhaps you would have said "SJ's hair looks as good as I imagined it would". If you were neutral, then maybe " SJ's hair looks good short." However, you expose your preference by revealing that you expected the result to be negative; that you were in fact pleasantly surprised does not negate your subliminal slip up, there it is, I haven't put any words in your mouth, they are all of your own choosing.

Anyway, where was I? Oh yes...

 

 

Actually I'm more motivated in giving a more nuanced interpretation on the matter, especially since a nuanced and detailed interpretation on the issue was something I have yet to come across here (of course there COULD be one on here, and I just failed to find it).  A detailed interpretation that's not as extreme as the OP's, or like the people on the internet who abandoned the show because of said haircut.  But doesn't like it for specific reasons, but is NOT a deal breaker for me on her character or the show.

 

To be fair, I'll admit that my comments didn't do a good job of getting that intention across with much in the way of clarity.

 

Also I said the haircut was a factor, to go along with her wardrobe choices.  I certainly didn't see her as looking "10 yrs. older" in her prom dress.

 

 

Doesn't this just prove my point?  That being engaged doesn't stop her from using her "feminine charms"?

 

 

So you think I'm disingenuous because I don't have "a better observation" than you?  I can feel the arrogance and ignorance resonating from your comment there.

 

Also I didn't ask you specifically "what's serious hair?", I asked you what does and doesn't qualify as "serious hair"?  Where do we draw the line, as far as hair length?  All you did was read my comments and interpreted them in a very reductive and presumptuous manner.

 

 

That's fine, I don't agree with all of her article or some of her research (and she didn't agree with all of it either).  Is there something wrong with that?

 

Can you offer a balanced and nuanced argument when your bias swings so far in one direction? I don't think so. Why not just accept that you, like many, many men, don't much like short hair on women? It's not that unusual. Why not own it?

Penny's haircut hasn't changed her body shape. Though she's supposedly raking it in, I doubt she's rich enough to change her whole wardrobe. You don't seem to have any handle on subjectivity. Just because you and your girlfriend think her styling's awry, don't make it so. But wait, hang on, you have "a better observation", I forgot! You know being called "arrogant and ignorant" by a person who's made such a claim is just such glorious irony, I really am a big fan of the absurd, you do amuse me.

Oh, and on the subject of body shapes, this amuses me too....http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/men-get-their-own-bullshit-body-types-2015032696744

As for the flirting, all it signifies is that nothing but Penny's hair has changed. She's still the same old Penny. Even if you don't happen to fancy her any more.

Seriously, the article I quoted is more than clear on people's perceptions on hair style and length, even going into detail about which side your parting is on and how that's interpreted. You won't agree. You won't agree because you don't much like short hair on women (saying it 'sometimes' looks good is just another way of saying it mostly looks bad).

[meka3000]

However, you expose your preference by revealing that you expected the result to be negative; that you were in fact pleasantly surprised does not negate your subliminal slip up

 

This is either you reading into things, what you want to read.  Or you're over thinking what I said.  What I said about Scarlett Johannson's short cut and how it looks better than I imagined it would ON HER, does NOTHING to prove I have a bias towards ALL women having long hair over short hair.  All I said is, it looks better on her than I thought it would.  My comment was IN REFERENCE TO HER, not anyone else.  How you read that as me having that bias towards ALL WOMEN boggles my mind.

Edited April 2, 2015 by meka3000

[ATOB]

Okay then, question, why did you think short hair wouldn't suit SJ? Really, I'm intrigued.

[Itwasdestined]

I prefer long hair to short. There, I said it. It's OK to have that opinion. Cutting her hair didn't change my wife's character though. And I stills love her[emoji4]

And returning to the original topic - Yes Penny's character had changed. I have too over an eight year time span. But it's not because of her hair - I'm sure if she puts a wig on next week, she'll still be acting the way she has been in season 8.

Oh, and it doesn't sadden me. I like change.

( leaves quietly through back entrance to allow meka and ATOB to continue their great debate)

[ajond]

While Penny is still my second favourite character (a distant second to Leonard), I do feel that she has lost some mystique by being inserted into the corporate world. Being a struggling actress was much more engaging IMHO.

[Itwasdestined]

While Penny is still my second favourite character (a distant second to Leonard), I do feel that she has lost some mystique by being inserted into the corporate world. Being a struggling actress was much more engaging IMHO.

Agree with that. More drama, more comedy, more opportunities for Leonard to engage her in conversation. The writers, despite the not so frequent occurrences, put more effort into Penny trying to be in Leonard's world of science for table talk rather than Leonard being in Penny's world of sales, other than howe much money she makes. It's not like the acting was a weekly event for them - in fact there were whole seasons where it virtually was non existent - but just the concept of it was interesting for me. The Gorilla story arc and her struggles to succeed prior to it in Season 7 were good vehicles for Lenny scenes. The pharmacy rep job has been good for Penny stories but not so much Lenny.