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chas

Pennys Character Has Changed, Saddens Me

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Can you offer a balanced and nuanced argument when your bias swings so far in one direction? I don't think so. Why not just accept that you, like many, many men, don't much like short hair on women? It's not that unusual. Why not own it?

 

I'm not owning into something that is clearly you letting your emotions cloud how your reading into my statements.

 

Penny's haircut hasn't changed her body shape.

 

I didn't say it did.  It draws more attention to her round face, and it makes her face look more serious during the serious & emotional moments in this season.  When she had the long wavy and lively hair that could move, it helped take the edge off of her serious looks/facial expressions.  Which is helpful when THIS is a comedy for the most part.  Now there is no hair to hide the hardened serious looks behind (though it wasn't much of a problem in the last two episodes).  When she's happy, in a perky mood, being bubbly even while being sarcastic like she was in the prom episode, it's not much of an issue.

 

Though she's supposedly raking it in, I doubt she's rich enough to change her whole wardrobe.

 

If spoilers of the next episode are anything to go by she is, but I won't spoil things.  

 

You don't seem to have any handle on subjectivity. Just because you and your girlfriend think her styling's awry, don't make it so.

 

Did I say anything me or my girlfriend said about said issue is ABSOLUTE 100% FACT?  You'll have to show me where I made such a claim.

 

But wait, hang on, you have "a better observation", I forgot!

 

Where did I say I did?  How about we focus on things I ACTUALLY SAID.  Not things that YOU THINK I SAID.

 

As for the flirting, all it signifies is that nothing but Penny's hair has changed. She's still the same old Penny. Even if you don't happen to fancy her any more.

 

You didn't answer how this ties in to her being engaged.  You ignored it.

 

(saying it 'sometimes' looks good is just another way of saying it mostly looks bad).

 

Why does it have be either/or?

Okay then, question, why did you think short hair wouldn't suit SJ? Really, I'm intrigued.

 

Because I thought the shape of her face wouldn't compliment it. She has a diamond shaped face, not a round shaped face like I previously thought. 

Edited by meka3000

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Right let's settle this once and for all. KALEY/PENNY IS GORGEOUS WITH LONG OR SHORT HAIR. End of.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

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Right let's settle this once and for all. KALEY/PENNY IS GORGEOUS WITH LONG OR SHORT HAIR. End of.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

Yes, of course. It is not an issue except for a relatively tiny number of fans who make a lot of noise. In my opinion it doesn't really matter.

 

Frankly I'm glad that Kaley was permitted to change her look if that is what she wanted. I have not seen any compelling rationale to make Penny continue to have long hair. There has got to be something positive in keeping the actors happy when/if something really does not matter otherwise.

 

There is nothing at all surprising in someone changing their hairstyle after 7 years. From my point of view it probably adds some reality to the show. Does anyone really think Leonard would complain?

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I'm not owning into something that is clearly you letting your emotions cloud how your reading into my statements.

 

 

I didn't say it did.  It draws more attention to her round face, and it makes her face look more serious during the serious & emotional moments in this season.  When she had the long wavy and lively hair that could move, it helped take the edge off of her serious looks/facial expressions.  Which is helpful when THIS is a comedy for the most part.  Now there is no hair to hide the hardened serious looks behind (though it wasn't much of a problem in the last two episodes).  When she's happy, in a perky mood, being bubbly even while being sarcastic like she was in the prom episode, it's not much of an issue.

 

 

If spoilers of the next episode are anything to go by she is, but I won't spoil things.  

 

 

Did I say anything me or my girlfriend said about said issue is ABSOLUTE 100% FACT?  You'll have to show me where I made such a claim.

 

 

Where did I say I did?  How about we focus on things I ACTUALLY SAID.  Not things that YOU THINK I SAID.

 

 

You didn't answer how this ties in to her being engaged.  You ignored it.

 

 

Why does it have be either/or?

 

Because I thought the shape of her face wouldn't compliment it. She has a diamond shaped face, not a round shaped face like I previously thought. 

 

post-9820-0-37332600-1428185155_thumb.gi

 

Back again are you?  Okay, as before, point by point, once more with feeling...

 

With regards to my 'cloudy emotions'; ha!  Nice attempt at 'gaslighting' but frankly this comment says more about you than me.  If you are unfamiliar with the term, I suggest googling it. Somehow, from your conduct and general stance on this subject, I suspect it will not be the only time in your life you'll hear it.

 

As for your second point about how Penny now cannot mask her seriousness with a curtain of blonde comfort, well, this is really no better than the men who gee me up with "smile" or "cheer up love, might never happen" as I dare to pass them in the street looking less than decorative.  After all, isn't what I'm for, to brighten their day? 

 

Do you have any idea how much it costs to renew a woman's entire wardrobe?  My friend, also an actress (though more successful than Penny), claims  a percentage of her clothes in her tax return, sometimes £35-£40K a year.....and that's cumulative, so she's not chucking the whole lot out every season. Penny has been shown to wear labels like 'Juicy' and once spent a months rent on a pair of shoes (if I'm remembering correctly).  Seriously, get real!

 

I'll come back to your 'claims' at the end.....

 

Doesn't this just prove my point?  That being engaged doesn't stop her from using her "feminine charms"?

 

You didn't answer how this ties in to her being engaged.  You ignored it.

 

How remiss of me.  Let me rephrase my answer:- As for the flirting, all it signifies is that nothing but Penny's hair has changed, oh that and the fact that she wears an engagement ring on her finger of course (well, that is when she's not trying to sell to someone whom she thinks will buy more if he believes she is single). She's still the same old Penny. Even if you don't happen to fancy her any more.

 

Does that answer meet all your criteria and pass muster?

 

Come, come, someone with your expansive knowledge on this subject must know that a round face suits a pixie crop. I know how you like your source material, so have a little gander at this.

http://beauty.about.com/od/bestcutsbyfaceshap1/ss/Find-Out-Which-Short-Haircuts-Look-Best-On-Your-Face-Shape_2.htm#step-heading

 

Particularly this paragraph;

 

The Best Face Shapes for the Pixie

 

While almost all pixie hairstyles look great on ovalsquare and heart-shaped faces, this particular style looks great on round face shape because it visually provides angles, softening the roundness of a round face.

"All those little pieces help emphasize the cheekbones and eyes; it's almost as if you build in cheekbones with this cut," says stylist Jimmy Paul in Allure Magazine.

 

Right, off to find your little claims to superior knowledge over us mere mortals.....back in a bit.

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Pretty much all of this Meka, that's what I'm referring to, your attempts to present opinion as fact is what irks.

 

Talk to brides-to-be.  I remember my brothers wife cut her hair AFTER their wedding since she wanted long for the wedding.  A bride getting a hair cut BEFORE the wedding is extremely rare.

 

 

 

 

I never said they were rules, merely trends/traditions.

 

 

 

 

Somehow I think the paying customer would pay MORE attention to the lady with long hair more than the one with Penny's short hair.  Standing out doesn't AUTOMATICALLY mean you get noticed.

 

 

 

 

the haircut is trendy on THE RIGHT PERSON's facial frame. and versatile? there was more versatility in her long hair than there has EVER BEEN in her short hair.  I don't see any energy in her hair being all buttoned up on her.  It looks TOO CONSERVATIVE and lifeless on her, and that just doesn't feel like Penny's character IMO.  Also I'm willing to bet the model with that cut you saw probably had better cheekbones.

 

 

 

 

Again that just doesn't sound to me like Penny at all.  That's just me.

 

 

 

 

I just think it makes for a lackluster visual (I know I'm not alone on this) where you combine the short hair cut with her previous casual wardrobe and it ages the character by about ten years.  It makes the character look less cute and her face looks harder without the long hair to soften her face.  My girlfriend who is a fashion designer goes nuts when we watch the show together, because she's helped clients that have had short hair before pull that look off, but when she sees Penny wearing the same type of clothes she did in seasons 5-7 it makes her cringe.  Most females that have good fashion sense who get a pixie cut CHANGE the type of clothes they wear TO MATCH the hair.  For some reason the wardrobe department is stuck in this puzzling mindset that ANY clothes can match with ANY hair.  Most fashion designers/hair stylists would laugh at that thought.

It's why she usually hasn't had anything bad to say about Kaley in it, because she usually wears clothes that compliment it.


 

I remember her saying she wanted to experiment with new hair.  I don't remember her lifestyle ever being an issue on that decision.

 

Again it's not Kaley I have a problem with the hair on, it's her character Penny where her short hair (along with her previous wardrobe) that doesn't work for me.


-That's part of the problem.

 

-Not with her fashion choices in season 8 it doesn't (a few exceptions aside).

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Ok, was the very natural recurrence of the T-shirt and shorts a retro flash in "Skywalker..", or pandering? It was a costume pulled straight from s1-3, when Penny was much "freer" in her wardrobe. It made me nostalgic for the '70s actually. But so does much of the show. Do these guys even live in this century? Except for the tech and some odd geek culture things which are fairly timeless, you wouldn't know. (I'm older than Dr Who and that started in 1963 and they pulled out Tom Baker as the Doctor for Sheldon to play).

Penny will get her mojo back when they stop making her constantly the supporting character for their lead, Sheldon, and get her back to being the other half of L/P. That's what saddens me.

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Pretty much all of this Meka, that's what I'm referring to, your attempts to present opinion as fact is what irks.

 

I never said any of that was absolute fact. All I did was present my opinion based on my observations.  YOU ARE CHOOSING to read my posts in that light, that is your problem, not mine.

Edited by meka3000

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Do you have any idea how much it costs to renew a woman's entire wardrobe?  My friend, also an actress (though more successful than Penny), claims  a percentage of her clothes in her tax return, sometimes £35-£40K a year.....and that's cumulative, so she's not chucking the whole lot out every season. Penny has been shown to wear labels like 'Juicy' and once spent a months rent on a pair of shoes (if I'm remembering correctly).  Seriously, get real!

 

If all women had the same style/budget, sure.  Also you failed to take into account how Penny this season makes much more money then she has before.

 

(well, that is when she's not trying to sell to someone whom she thinks will buy more if he believes she is single).

 

During that time she hides it in her pocket.  As she explained in said episode.

 

Come, come, someone with your expansive knowledge on this subject must know that a round face suits a pixie crop.I know how you like your source material, so have a little gander at this.

http://beauty.about.com/od/bestcutsbyfaceshap1/ss/Find-Out-Which-Short-Haircuts-Look-Best-On-Your-Face-Shape_2.htm#step-heading

 

From the same article: "While it may seem with super short hair that you're stuck with a monotone look, that isn't the case with the pixie -- as long as you keep hair longer on top."

 

Recently Penny has been regaining hair back at the top of her head.  Earlier this season that wasn't the case.

 

While almost all pixie hairstyles look great on ovalsquare and heart-shaped faces, this particular style looks great on round face shape because it visually provides angles, softening the roundness of a round face.

"All those little pieces help emphasize the cheekbones and eyes; it's almost as if you build in cheekbones with this cut," says stylist Jimmy Paul in Allure Magazine."

 

Notice the emphasis on that bolded underlined part?  Also her long hair also visually provided angles, along with looking like hair that had a sense of movement, while her hair earlier on this season for the most part looked staid IMO.  Staid just doesn't sound like a word that I would associate with Penny's character.

 

Also I actually don't mind a pixie cut on a diamond shaped face for some reason. Also the angles don't always work for me on the round face, sometimes said angles clash with the roundness of said face.  For me, it usually depends on how it's styled that can make or break that look.  For instance long or short, I've never really been a fan of bangs on Kaley or Penny's hair, as it usually takes away from the shape of her face IMO.

 

Right, off to find your little claims to superior knowledge over us mere mortals.....back in a bit.

 

If you can't be bothered to leave out the blunt condescending attitude, then I don't care to continue this conversation.

Edited by meka3000

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This season I am really happy with the Penny character. At first I couldn't imagine how Penny could do anything else than pursuing acting but I think the storyline she got is also interesting. I know people love Penny and as someone who loves her character I understand why many got bumped that she gave up her dream something she was passionate about. But the reason I appreciate her new job is that she had the courage to make that difficult decision. She left her home in order to become an actress, she paid for classes, played some small parts basically did many things to become the star she wanted but she just couldn't. I realize it may seem sad cause it's like leaving her dream to do something boring like selling things. But it needs a lot of courage to realize that what you are doing no matter how much you want it might never happen so maybe you should try doing something else. I liked that Penny took the chance and found something that she actually likes cause people can like two things and be good at them and be passionate about them. So I don't see it as Penny leaving something she loved in order to do something boring but profitable (still I wouldn't judge her) but I see it as her discovering her abilities and other things she likes. Now if she ever decides to give acting another chance I wouldn't mind. I would like for her to follow her dream but I wouldn't exclude the possibility that what she lives now may be a dream for her.

As for her hair and short hair in general. Although I am not a fan in general(only because I feel that short hair needs a lot of attention to look good and I am just to bored to do that) Kaley looks very good with it in my opinion. Her face is really beautiful and especially her eyes and short hair draws attention on her face and that's a good thing for me. I also liked her long hair but this is a nice change for me.

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This season I am really happy with the Penny character. At first I couldn't imagine how Penny could do anything else than pursuing acting but I think the storyline she got is also interesting. I know people love Penny and as someone who loves her character I understand why many got bumped that she gave up her dream something she was passionate about. But the reason I appreciate her new job is that she had the courage to make that difficult decision. She left her home in order to become an actress, she paid for classes, played some small parts basically did many things to become the star she wanted but she just couldn't. I realize it may seem sad cause it's like leaving her dream to do something boring like selling things. But it needs a lot of courage to realize that what you are doing no matter how much you want it might never happen so maybe you should try doing something else. I liked that Penny took the chance and found something that she actually likes cause people can like two things and be good at them and be passionate about them. So I don't see it as Penny leaving something she loved in order to do something boring but profitable (still I wouldn't judge her) but I see it as her discovering her abilities and other things she likes. Now if she ever decides to give acting another chance I wouldn't mind. I would like for her to follow her dream but I wouldn't exclude the possibility that what she lives now may be a dream for her.

 

Her new job, and how she got it, is actually something I thought was executed well.  Some feel it's unrealistic that she has this job, but anybody that's ever had the power of networking behind them, can attest to how that can make a huge difference.

 

Also there's nothing that says she can't do both given the right circumstances, it just depends on how she prioritizes herself.  But I don't necessarily want her to go back 100% to acting again and quit her successful job, because it'll just make her words "I finally realize I don't need to be famous or have some big career to be happy." from last season ring false.  I don't mind her WANTING that, but when push comes to shove I want her to realize what she NEEDS at the end of the day is not exactly her dreams.

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I never said any of that was absolute fact. All I did was present my opinion based on my observations.  YOU ARE CHOOSING to read my posts in that light, that is your problem, not mine.

Nuh uh! Your argument distilled to it's essence:- I don't like short hair. Must punish women with short hair.

I don't believe for a moment you would be on here writing that Kaley looks 10 years older were it not for the fact that she's burst your bubble. Taken away the little fantasy you were enjoying. It's like suddenly realising the 'ideal woman' actually does wake up with greasy skin and egg breath in the morning.

If all women had the same style/budget, sure.  Also you failed to take into account how Penny this season makes much more money then she has before.

 

 

During that time she hides it in her pocket.  As she explained in said episode.

 

 

From the same article: "While it may seem with super short hair that you're stuck with a monotone look, that isn't the case with the pixie -- as long as you keep hair longer on top."

 

Recently Penny has been regaining hair back at the top of her head.  Earlier this season that wasn't the case.

 

 

Notice the emphasis on that bolded underlined part?  Also her long hair also visually provided angles, along with looking like hair that had a sense of movement, while her hair earlier on this season for the most part looked staid IMO.  Staid just doesn't sound like a word that I would associate with Penny's character.

 

Also I actually don't mind a pixie cut on a diamond shaped face for some reason. Also the angles don't always work for me on the round face, sometimes said angles clash with the roundness of said face.  For me, it usually depends on how it's styled that can make or break that look.  For instance long or short, I've never really been a fan of bangs on Kaley or Penny's hair, as it usually takes away from the shape of her face IMO.

 

 

If you can't be bothered to leave out the blunt condescending attitude, then I don't care to continue this conversation.

Penny's budget? Hell, what do you think she's putting on those credit cards? I mentioned Penny's wardrobe contains designer wear, so we're talking big bucks, regardless of whatever she earns, now or then. Check with your fashion designer girlfriend, she'll tell you.

Hiding engagement ring? Yeah, you've added to, not contradicted my statement. What's your point?

Pixie crop. Penny, at no point, has sported a buzz cut, so your quoted text actually supports my argument. Her hair has always been longer on top with choppy angles to support her features. Again, what exactly is your point?

Once more your language betrays you. "Also I actually don't mind a pixie cut on a diamond shaped face for some reason." Again, use of the word "actually" to emphasise unusualness, the negative choice of "don't mind" in preference to positive words such as "like" or "prefer" and the final denouement of "for some reason" which highlights that this tolerance is in fact contradictory to your ordinarily dislike of short hair.

Tying in with your reply to Cecilia, I should come clean and tell you that my background includes performance coaching (utilising neuro-linguistic programming) which is how I made the move from acting to Human Resources. It's not at all implausible for Penny to be so skilled at a sales role. Grab a copy of The Stage and have a look in the jobs ads. Actors are excellent at these jobs and employers know it.

Curious that when you run out of answers you "don't care to continue this conversation". I'll take my blunt and condescending self off then shall I?

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Nuh uh! Your argument distilled to it's essence:- I don't like short hair. Must punish women with short hair.

I don't believe for a moment you would be on here writing that Kaley looks 10 years older were it not for the fact that she's burst your bubble. Taken away the little fantasy you were enjoying. It's like suddenly realising the 'ideal woman' actually does wake up with greasy skin and egg breath in the morning.

 

Again, your writing this with no ACTUAL evidence that I feel this way. Your BELIEF doesn't amount to actual evidence that I feel this way.  It's presumptious, reductive, and downright insulting.  And quite frankly, your being immature in this conversation; if you can't seperate a persons biases from a persons preferences.

 

Your pulling a Leonard and overthinking what I say.

 

Also where did I say it was implausible for Penny to make this transition in her career? I NEVER said that.

 

Quite frankly I'M NOT GONNA bother having this conversation with you, since it's clear you no longer want to have a mature conversation about this, at this point you want to to tell a person how they feel based on their comments.

Edited by meka3000

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Meka, ATOB is destroying you point by point. Most people stop digging when they notice that the hole they're in is getting too deep to climb out of. If it'll soothe your ego, just claim victory and move on, because you are losing this argument more and more with every post you make.

Sent from my HTC One M8 using Tapatalk

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Kindly do not lecture me about such things. I've been doing this a lot longer than you have, so don't presume to tell me what's what. (You're wrong, anyway, and are lashing out because you're getting your butt handed to you.) And saying "what does this have to do with the topic?" is nothing more than an attempt to change the subject, a tactic I've seen countless times and won't work on me.

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Does anybody want to see Penny returning to acting 100% or not? I feel this is simply her being tempted this season more than something that I think is going to actually happen.

Edited by meka3000

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Again, your writing this with no ACTUAL evidence that I feel this way. Your BELIEF doesn't amount to actual evidence that I feel this way.  It's presumptious, reductive, and downright insulting.  And quite frankly, your being immature in this conversation; if you can't seperate a persons biases from a persons preferences.

 .

Okay, help me out here. Do I focus on your 'bias' against short hair, or your 'preference' for long hair? Let me know which better suits.

 

Also where did I say it was implausible for Penny to make this transition in her career? I NEVER said that.

 

.

You mentioned 'some' thought it implausible, and then put her success down to networking. True, Bernie got her the interview, but her success comes from her own talent, no-one is propping her up.

 

Quite frankly I'M NOT GONNA bother having this conversation with you, since it's clear you no longer want to have a mature conversation about this, at this point you want to to tell a person how they feel based on their comments.

Then stop replying, if you give me ammunition (and as Mr Pollard correctly pointed out, every time you write you give me more material to pick at), then don't be surprised when it ricochets and hits you in the @ss!

Resorting to telling a person how they feel based on their posts is not winning, it's character assasination, a type of ad hominem attack.  Also what does this post have to do with this thread?

Character assassination?! (Snorts coffee!) T'aint nuffink argumentum ad hominem about this I assure you. You're (and yes, that's how you write that) telling us Penny's hair doesn't suit her because it's the wrong cut for her face, in fact she looks ten years older and has lost all her pizzazz you declare. This is of course nothing to do with a preference for long hair, no, no, t'is fact, that's what it is. You bunch of ignoramous' don't you know that not every person suits short hair you scoff. No bias here! None whatsoever. And what's more, my girlfriend's a fashion designer and she reckons Penny's clothes look crap too. Stupid wardrobe mistress/dresser, clearly me and my girlfriend know better than they what she should be wearing. I know, put us in charge of costumes and we'll put the spring back in Penny's step (and the lead back in my pencil).
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Meka: What can I say. I pity you, man. it must be really sad to get involved in arguments , and not realize when you've lost and still try to win while only disgracing yourself even further. But, I really have to thank you for it, since now I know I don't have to take anything you say seriously.

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a lot of her lovely behavior from the earlier seasons seems to have gone gradually......her snappy one liners seems to have more and more acidic tones to them..... the actress most of the time seems to be bored......

 

her hair cut does not help either......since she looks a lot older and less hotter.........in just a few months.....

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a lot of her lovely behavior from the earlier seasons seems to have gone gradually......her snappy one liners seems to have more and more acidic tones to them..... the actress most of the time seems to be bored......

 

her hair cut does not help either......since she looks a lot older and less hotter.........in just a few months.....

Agree with the first para. The second is irrelevant (btw I prefer the long hair look) it has no impact on the show content. We can blame the writers for that . They went with the engagement too early and have no idea how to write an engaged committed Lenny.

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I love the show so why put me down and try to make me look like the bad guy, does being a MOD give you that permission? Guess I'll find out if my post goes live or is deleted.

 

I started watching TBBT about 3-4 years ago. I watch TBBT reruns everyday so you do not have a clue about how much I watch TBBT. Penny has played, what I call, the dumb blonde girl every season until now. Leonard/Penny have been on/off threw out the lifetime of the show and sh'es also's played the dumb blonde girl(in my opinion)

 

You have your opinions I have mine, if everyones opinion doesn't aggree with yours I guess they are wrong, is that right? In my opinion until this year, penny's character is essentially the "dumb blonde". And with the new hair cut that character is gone. WHich in my opinions ruins her character. She's not dumb ole Penny anymore who wants to be an actress but is stuck in a cheesecake factory waitress job. She's no longer the funny character she's been for the last 7 seasons.

 

FYI, Penny dated Zack in Season 4 Ep 11, Penny was Wonder Woman Zack was Superman.  She played the dumb blonde girl then as she did most every episode until this year.

 

Mr. Mod. If you are right then I guess this article has a ton of wrong opinions, even Sheldon hates it. Part of the link below says:

Not since Felicity chopped off her curly locks has a television character's haircut inspired so much vitriol. On Monday night's season premiere of The Big Bang Theory

 

https://tv.yahoo.com/blogs/yahoo-tv/big-bang-theory-premiere-penny-s-new-haircut-043839796.html;_ylt=AwrBT8jdSjNUfnEA7klXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzdjBxb2lyBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDUwNF8x

Ok I am not a moderator here.  I do not like her haircut necessarily either, and yes her character has changed.  The thing that tripped me up is saying she will no longer look right dating dumb guys.  She is engaged to Leonard, she is done with dumb guys.  You said you watch the show, so I know you must have known they are engaged.  You certainly have every right to your opinion I respect that.  I don't know if you may be saying that's part of her character you don't like anymore?  That she is now engaged- and no longer a dumb blonde.  I think many people did prefer it that way- so maybe that's what you were trying to say?

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