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Ki22

Why Can't Sheldon And Amy Have An Asexual Relationship?

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Well, demisexual does come under the asexual umbrella doesn't it? All is not lost.

There's a massive clue in the line "Amy, before I met you I never had any interest in being intimate with anyone".

I don't know, to be honest, I'm quite confused with this term. I know many people, who need to have deep connection with person, to feel desire to be intimate with them, and I never consider them as different in any way. It always seem to me like they're more emotional based personalities, but different sexual orientation ? Do we really need label for everything ? Who cant tell, what is normal level of sexual desire? And as Sheldon and Amy, clearly have this type of connection, why Sheldon still can't have sex? I would bet more on his germ phobia, or even some type of fear of failure, maybe he's afraid that this will be first thing, he fail in, or his afraid this will change him, he have examples in his friends of, how can sex be a problem, and I can see how this can stress him. But I don't know, we will see. 

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Tallin, my response was not so much a rebuttal of your point insomuch as it was a vote of support for the original poster who clearly states they are asexual (so I would assume know a great deal more about the 'grey' areas of asexual relationships than us).

Frankly, I find your notion that asexuality is 'unnatural' appalling; no better than homophobia in fact (you mention 'other unnatural things' but thankfully aren't specific).

Nobody chooses their sexuality. (Did you choose yours?) We all play the hand we're dealt!

That was a really nasty thing to say.

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Tallin, my response was not so much a rebuttal of your point insomuch as it was a vote of support for the original poster who clearly states they are asexual (so I would assume know a great deal more about the 'grey' areas of asexual relationships than us).

Frankly, I find your notion that asexuality is 'unnatural' appalling; no better than homophobia in fact (you mention 'other unnatural things' but thankfully aren't specific).

Nobody chooses their sexuality. (Did you choose yours?) We all play the hand we're dealt!

That was a really nasty thing to say.

Yes I get that :) My point was more for your statement, that demisexual belong under asexual "umbrella", because unlike asexuality, which I find very existing, demisexuality I find just like "we have to have laber for everything," but it is new term, which doesn't have real scientific background yet, so only time will tell if I'm wrong or right. I find asexuality unnatural in biological sense, if you will look at it from this point of view, sex is in the first place, way to expand manking, reproduction is important for preservation of life for us, or animals. So in this point of view, yes it's kinda against the nature. But it exists. As homosexual can be find even in animals. And just because it's not natural, that doesn't mean they don't have right to have beautiful life, on their terms. We live in democratic world, thank god, every have the right to be happy in their way. And I don't see where you can find in either of my posts, that someone can choose their sexuality. Of course not! And don't get me too serious. I have this issue like Sheldon, to have opinion on everything... that doesn't mean I'm always right :) Just my opinions :)

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Well, if you're going to approach this from the hominism viewpoint Tallin (and I mean hominism as pragmatic humanism that regards us as highly evolved animals and not the flip-side to feminism) then I'm pretty sure we could post back and forth indefinitely with examples that support our points (are Pandas asexual for example, how about animals that reproduce without sex; parthenogenesis; armodillos are mammals that do this via polyembryony for example)?

 

However, for me, what it boils down to is that you are accusing someone whose sexuality is as inherrant as yours and mine as being 'unnatural' and frankly that stinks.

 

No innate (and therefore unchosen) sexual orientation is unnatural?

Edited by AThingOfBeauty

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I am asexual. I am neutral. This is my natural state of being. There is nothing wrong with me.

I have done the research, I have looked for other reasons, what ever remains must be the truth.

Natural state. This is not the place for this,but, I will not have anyone attacking us and saying we are unnatural. You are uninformed and clearly have no insight as to the diversity of life....natural life. 

Side note...Sheldon is Asexual until the writers choose to change Him...(find Him unnatural)

ki

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Sheldon and Amy were not written as poster-boy/girl of asexuality. They never have been and the writers have steered cleared of labelling them as such all along. The writers are not writing role models, they are writing characters in a story. The fact that they might increase awareness and/or acceptance of differences in the general audience is just an added bonus. But claiming that if Shamy have sex they stop being good role models is frankly pretty judgemental and, IMO, kind of defeats the whole purpose of these characters, if you believe that they do indeed increase acceptance and understanding of differences. It means that all you're doing is putting them in a box that's convenient for you and that if they don't behave in a way that you think is appropriate for that box, then they're letting you down. There is not just one way to be "asexual" (not to be pedantic, Redrose, :p but technically one can still experience sexual arousal and be mostly "asexual" - by the main definition, it's more to do with sexual drive and interested compared to the general population, rather than total presence or absence of arousal), just as there is not just one way to be straight or gay or bi. If and when they consummate their relationship, it's most definitely not going to be because of peer pressure. Not all asexuals who end up engaging in sex do so because of peer pressure. 

I did not say asexuals have sex out of peer pressure...I said that some asexuals who are relationships with people who are not asexual have sex because the other, whom they love, needs it.  They are there for them...because they love. 

Side note...the writers of bbt may feel peer pressure to change the relationship between Sheldon and Amy.

That is what I said.

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I have done the research, I have looked for other reasons, what ever remains must be the truth.

A bit OT but that reminds me of Sherlock Holmes!!

And in order to get in topic again I personally don't think there is something wrong with the way the storyline went. I think that the writers deliberately left the "what's his deal" question open because they didn't want to write themselves into a situation they might want to alter later. So, yes it crossed my mind that Sheldon is probably asexual but I was never certain. I think the fact that Shamy became a success and people liked them was a factor for the writers in order to make the decision and put the sexual element in their relationship (or at least imply that it will become sexual some day). They needed more storylines and a way to drag this out and at least for me they managed to make it interesting. Also they did make the shift gradually cause if I am not mistaken they started exploring the theme Sheldon/girls since season three. Having said that I would not object in an asexual relationship between Shamy (and admittedly one of my favourite is seasons 4-5 Shamy) just having them be quirky and playing their games and doing their world changing science but for me they are just as interesting now. I just disagree wirh the opinion that Sheldon was asexual. It was an unclear matter and he very well could be asexual if they wanted it.

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This whole thing brings me back to one of my favorite interviews that Jim did--that old Ausiello interview from the end of S2. They started out talking about the Shenny questions that Ausiello said he was getting and Jim, of course, denied that that had ever been implied in a script or been played in subtext by Kaley or himself, etc., but then Ausiello asked Jim about Sheldon and women.

Jim said that he was pretty sure that they would eventually explore that idea because it was too rich a subject to ignore.

He said that Sheldon probably wouldn't recognize what it felt like to be in love and that whoever thengirlmwas, she'd have to come armed with a frying pan to hit him over the head and tell him that what he was feeling was love.

Ausiello also asked Jim if he thought that Sheldon was a virgin and Jim said, "oh, yeah," and added that he'd be surprised to find out otherwise, and yet, it still wouldn't surprise him if he got a script that said, "at some comic con..."

Jim lives in Sheldon's skin more than we do, and I think he's always had an interesting insight into the character.

I also think that once they introduced AFF into the mix that they were planning on taking it all the way, but simply finding a unique way to get there. Rather than having Sheldon simply fall in love and lust, the way the other guys have done, they would follow along with Sheldon's intellect being uppermost, so this girl would have to appeal to him in that way first, with everything eventually following, once Sheldon figured out what his heart felt.

And since his touch phobias had already been well established that was another barrier to overcome in taking his relationship forward.

But all along, though, I think the writers didn't want to lock themselves into some position that would limit the stories they might want to tell. Just like they resisted labeling him as being autistic, I think they probably didn't want to label him as asexual or even semi sexual.

But just as many people feel that Sheldon has traits that might put him "on the spectrum", it could be that he displays tendencies that would seem to imply things about the level or nature of his sex drive, but, again, that's clearly not a label the writers have chosen to give him.

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Side note...Sheldon is Asexual until the writers choose to change Him...(find Him unnatural)

ki

Or, his natural state is as a demisexual, that does fit the character best. Or, the writers are telling a story as it goes along, with no thought to his actual sexuality, because they can do what they want when they write the characters.

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or Sheldon, like some men I know, are just waiting for someone to come along that he "clicks" with. he doesn't have to fall into a certain category. the "40 Year Old Virgin" was not asexual. he just didn't have the chance or didn't want the chance before that. just because someone doesn't have the need to have sex or want to engage in it doesn't mean he/she should be labeled. 

 

just my opinion. ( why does there necessarily have to be a category???)

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or Sheldon, like some men I know, are just waiting for someone to come along that he "clicks" with. he doesn't have to fall into a certain category. the "40 Year Old Virgin" was not asexual. he just didn't have the chance or didn't want the chance before that. just because someone doesn't have the need to have sex or want to engage in it doesn't mean he/she should be labeled. 

 

just my opinion. ( why does there necessarily have to be a category???)

 

I agree, I think one of the biggest things is his upbringing within a  Christian home. I remember in Zazzy episode first thing she asked (other then if Amy was a robot) about relationship was "Have they sinned?" Now Sheldon doesn't seem to go along with all that, but I could see the "cleanliness" part of abstinents teaching appealing to him. That doesn't say anything about his sexuality orientation though.   I think the mommy observation episode was huge for him... 

Edited by EvilStewie

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"They spend hours arguing about things that don't even exist!" (koops)

Yes I agree, this does not exist.

We, as asexuals, are told that we don't.

We do not exist and we are unnatural.

I have been trying to find a group in my area to advicate for.

AVEN and all of us do exist.

Sheldon and Amy are fictional... You still have to be true to the characters you created.  Even Sheldon said people don't usually change.  But there is a chance for us to be heard...even if the PLOT changes.

They have had that kind of relationship and it is NOT invalid...even if the writers move on.  Nobody needs to know what goes on behind the closed door.

Thank you for the little bit of time.

 

Done.

Ki

Edited by Ki22

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"They spend hours arguing about things that don't even exist!" (koops)

Yes I agree, this does not exist.

We, as asexuals, are told that we don't.

We do not exist and we are unnatural.

I have been trying to find a group in my area to advicate for.

AVEN and all of us do exist.

Sheldon and Amy are fictional... You still have to be true to the characters you created.  Even Sheldon said people don't usually change.  But there is a chance for us to be heard...even if the PLOT changes.

They have had that kind of relationship and it is NOT invalid...even if the writers move on.  Nobody needs to know what goes on behind the closed door.

Thank you for the little bit of time.

 

Done.

Ki

 

I totally understand where you are coming from!!  My big thing with Sheldon is that there are other things that make it hard to say definitely he is one sexuality over another, which the example above I gave is an example of what I'm talking about. I am pansexual, and we don't exist either. We are terminology minded bi sexual people who are trying to make awkward for other's who do notice gender. I know that is a bunch of crap, and you know that is a bunch of crap from your side as well. Don't let them do that to you!!  Now, I prefer male gendered ppl  What is in you pants I could give a rats ass about, I know that gender in how your brain identifies it. Sexuality and gender are totally separate.  If a guy says " If I was a girl I would totally be into Brad Pit"  know He IS totally into Brad Pitt.  Because gender plays no role in someone sexuality.  Saying all that that I perfer males.. I just ended a 3 year relationship with a women.  I am capable of attraction to ALL ppl, and I have to believe there is a reverse of that.  I believe it exists  

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"They spend hours arguing about things that don't even exist!" (koops)

Yes I agree, this does not exist.

We, as asexuals, are told that we don't.

We do not exist and we are unnatural.

I have been trying to find a group in my area to advicate for.

AVEN and all of us do exist.

Sheldon and Amy are fictional... You still have to be true to the characters you created.  Even Sheldon said people don't usually change.  But there is a chance for us to be heard...even if the PLOT changes.

They have had that kind of relationship and it is NOT invalid...even if the writers move on.  Nobody needs to know what goes on behind the closed door.

Thank you for the little bit of time.

 

Done.

Ki

 

When did I ever say that asexuals don't exist? I made a strong case, I think, for how, despite the term being often used inappropriately and vaguely (and whether or not we think labels are useful), it is probably a fairly accurate description of a certain portion of the population and that it might make sense from a biological standpoint. And if you were referring to the general population not believing asexuality is real, well... that's a complicated topic. But, in any case, you can't put on the writers the burden of speaking out for you and the asexual community via Sheldon because that was never what they intended to do. They are speaking out for Sheldon and Sheldon alone.  

 

I have an issue with this "being true to your characters" argument. What does that even mean in this context? That the writers need to have the characters develop in the way YOU want them to develop, or the way YOU think asexuals should behave, or they're not true to themselves anymore? People don't radically change, but they also don't stay exactly the same. They experience, assess, adapt, experience, assess, adapt. I think the whole story of how Sheldon met Amy and, to summarize quickly the way Phanta and others did, stumbled upon the first girl that made him "click" in his life, is very believable. It's what Sheldon said himself. That is totally possible and consistent given everything we've ever known about him, and that IS being true to the character. It's not like the writers one morning woke up and decided that Sheldon was into sex after all and made him "hit puberty" and turned him into Howard, hitting on everything in sight and watching porn 24/7. I also would frankly be surprised if, given you say you're active in asexual communities, you had never stumbled upon someone who defines themselves as asexual and had a similar experience. Because, like I said, according to the currently accepted definition of the term "asexual" in the scientific community, such a person (a demisexual) would qualify as an asexual.

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I too find the word "unnatural" in this context simply wrong and hurtful. Even though it might not have been intended to be. But you can't imo justify it with stating simple biology. Also, i find the idea, that "they" should keep within their groups or whatnot, where they can lead a happy life without bothering the "normal" people, quite disturbing. I wish, we as humans would be better than that by now. Everyone wants to be happy, why not let them and stop throwing around words that could hurt people very easily?

I'm not so sure about that. They purposely never put a label on him and I'm very sure, they brought Amy in just for story telling reasons and not because they needed to fix him or something, to show that he's a "normal" boy after all. People were already watching the show and loved Sheldon for who he is. And although I'm a huge Shamyshipper, I would be even if sex would have stayed off the table for good.

I like what you said, but, also sexual orientation is not a label. This is the way he acts and the way he is written. anyone would tell you he is written Asex until written otherwise.  The "Train kiss" was different and interesting.  Since then, it has become a CHECK LIST item at date night.  Sheldon is not in the kiss if there is anything else in his head.  It is part of the agreement.  It is ritual.

Edited by Ki22

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I'll say Sheldon is Dimesexual before Asexual. Sheldon has at least shown interest in Big Bang terminology Coitus. Like "Oh you really are a vixen Amy". Telling Leonard and Penny, he hasent ruled out Coitus. Thats not a sign someones Assexual Imo

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I am a Neutral asexual.  I recognize certain aspects of the "Sheldon" character as the same.  I understand that this is a fictional character and is going to change to something more acceptable to the general public.  I am just saying...as the character is now...That is asex Neutral.  It is not like we don't have relationships with others, we do. It is just different.  We care, we want to be with other people, we just do that in a different way.  I am neutral...I have friends. Relationships do not go further than that.  It may seem cold and "unnatural" to some, but, this is who we are and it is not wrong or unnatural.  (Like I said, I am a neutral asex and I cannot speak for the other asexual people)

I am sorry if you don't see it.  most people don't. It is what it is.

Also...I am not requesting that the writers get on my "band wagon". They don't have any other responsibility than making the greatest show ever.  It does not matter how the "Sheldon" character changes as long as it is true to the show....and it is funny.

ki

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The way I see it, this argument is just like the autism/aspergers discussion. People see certain traits in Sheldon, so they say, "he's one of us", when in fact, the writers have never intended him to have been diagnosed with anything, whatever his traits or behaviors.

IIRC, the only label they've ever applied in any way is OCD, and that seems to be mild enough that he is able to function in a relatively normal way (ie, he's not trapped in his home by his behaviors, etc.)

So if they have chosen not to label him, or confine him with some diagnosis, pertaining to either his mental state or his sexuality, then those labels cannot truly be applied to him by whichever community, no matter how one sees him.

There's no evidence that they ever intended to label him sexually--even Jim sensed, back at the end of S2, that they were probably going to put Sheldon in a romantic relationship because there was so much to mine in that vein, pertaining to how Sheldon would eventually begin to understand his feelings, etc..

I don't think it was ever about the writers bowing to any kind of pressure, and they've certainly drawn this relationship in its own way, different than all others because of who Sheldon and Amy are, but not because of labels.

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Hi 3ku11,

First of all, "diagnosis" needs to be kept out of this discussion. No sexuality is a "diagnosis"  Hedro, Homo, Asex, Trans, true.  Second, Jim is in a homosexual  relationship going on 12 years, he does not know asexual relationships anymore that the other "diagnosis" which you spoke of. 

He does not know of anything other than the weekly scripts.  He said that, He does not know what is coming in the story any more than anyone else than the writers.  I am saying Sheldon character is still asex...but, will be changed to fit the public view of "normal". 

Future will make Sheldon heterosexual, because that fits.

I disagree with some of what you say.  Ok,  most.

Ki

Edited by Ki22
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Hi,

First of all, "diagnosis" needs to be kept out of this discussion. No sexuality is a "diagnosis"  Hedro, Homo, Asex, Trans, true.  Second, Jim is in a homosexual  relationship going on 12 years, he does not know asexual relationships anymore that the other "diagnosis" which you spoke of. 

He does not know of anything other than the weekly scripts.  He said that, He does not know what is coming in the story any more than anyone else than the writers.  I am saying Sheldon character is still asex...but, will be changed to fit the public view of "normal". 

Future will make Sheldon heterosexual, because that fits.

I disagree with some of what you say.  Ok,  most.

Ki

 

Sheldon does not posses any symptoms of Asex at all. Sheldon has never shown any interest in any human and relationship form or construct before. How can he be put off by sex (Which is the essence of Asex), if he has never showed any interest in the very concept. Thats the confusion. People think because Sheldon hasen't had sex, that he must be Asexual. But he has no opinion on sex, and therefore doesen't wanted to be defined by any societies conventions. I said this before but in S6 Sheldon said he has not ruled out coitus with Amy, that sounds like he is Dimesxual before Asex, I think he wants it with Amy. Tbh as early as S2 Sheldon wanted a girlfriend, just he diddnt go through the normal formuatlive years as everyone else. But people keep protecting Sheldon, like he is some protected speicies. He is a grown adult, he is no exception imo. And tbh Sheldon would be boring, if he was just observing others human and relationship constructs, and none of his own. I have actually found the character more interesting, as he is now coming to terms with his feelings, Amy brought that side of him and made his charcter have more dimensions. In other wise would of gone stale. 

Edited by 3ku11

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Hi,

First of all, "diagnosis" needs to be kept out of this discussion. No sexuality is a "diagnosis" Hedro, Homo, Asex, Trans, true. Second, Jim is in a homosexual relationship going on 12 years, he does not know asexual relationships anymore that the other "diagnosis" which you spoke of.

He does not know of anything other than the weekly scripts. He said that, He does not know what is coming in the story any more than anyone else than the writers. I am saying Sheldon character is still asex...but, will be changed to fit the public view of "normal".

Future will make Sheldon heterosexual, because that fits.

I disagree with some of what you say. Ok, most.

Ki

I assume you're talking to me, though you didn't quote me, but I used the term "diagnosed" in reference to the autism/aspergers issue. I also used the term "labeled", which is what you're doing.

But I do think you are wrong to assume that Sheldon is asexual just because you seem to believe he seems asexual to you. That's why I mentioned the autism/aspergers issue. Because people saw something they assumed to be evidence, they claimed him as one of them, which in fact, was not true.

Similarly, you claim Sheldon as an asexual person, making an assumption that was never intended by the writers.

You assume he will be changed to "fit the public view", when you are the one trying to make him fit your view of who you think he is.

The writers never asserted that Sheldon was anything but heterosexual. You are the one trying to make him fit what you want him to be.

Though Jim may not know what the writers have in store for the future, and he admits that much in that Ausiello interview, still he understands his character based on what they have done so far, and he does have intelligent instincts about who Sheldon is and what makes sense for comedy writing.

Edited by phantagrae
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Sorry but I don't think the success of the show relies on Sheldon's sex life. If the writers decided to write him asexual from the start I doubt they would change that now. If they did things out of pressure they would have made Sheldon and Penny an item and they told so. They had requests but never wanted to see that one through cause they were telling a different story. It's the same now. Actually this is the story they want to tell no pressure or anything else. And I am not saying that you don't have legitimate reasons to suspect he seemed as an asexual character. Many of us thought he were including me. I am just a little surprised and maybe offended that you would think that all these people that make this show a success would turn their televisions off if Sheldon was asexual and happy. Believe me I understand that people can be mean and judgmental but nowadays things are a little better right? And I think that's why all these people responded to your message cause you're saying something about the people who write the story and the people who enjoy it while basically you know neither of them. And I am sorru but you are the only one who is referring to labels concerning sexual orientation. Without even knowing our orientation. Unrelated to the show that makes at least me nervous like I have to choose something to be and I cannot be something else cause the label comes with a little box and either you fit there or go find another box. Anyway I think this is also another reason people responded to your post. They made Sheldon's story quite consistent and believable and I am sorry if that ruins the character for you but I doubt he was changed to fit in a specific model.

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I will Love the Character Sheldon...however it turns out...they will keep it to a TRUE story...I know that and I trust in that.  Labels..."asexual" in this post has been regarded as "Unnatural"..Diagnosis...Symptoms...This is what I have been responding against.

I am fine with Sheldon changing to an "active" heterosexual being. As long as it fits.  And, I know he has to.

 

No, you do not understand Asex neutral.  It is not "put off by sex". It is... no need,want,desire,interest.  It does not exist. We have no problem with that...just do not have need ,want, desire, interest personally for us.  We do not have an aversion, it is just not part of us.

Again, the "Sheldon" character was written as Hedrosexual then changed to Asex ...and changed to "vaguely interested" when they felt the need or "inspiration" to do such.

 

  He still acts Asex...ritual date night.  I am not trying to tell the writers what to do...I just thought it was nice that "we" finally had a "character" similar to "us", however short lived that is. Sorry if you can't see it or feel my joy and frustration.  I apparently cannot express myself properly or you cannot get where I am coming from.

ki

Edited by Ki22

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Sheldon is neither Asex Hedrosex, or even Dimesexual. The writers have never written him as either. Sheldon has never been interested in the convention at all. Its just like with the asperges claims. They can say "I am not crazy my mother had me tested". And they can make light of it without offending anyone. They haven't acknowledged Sheldon's identity directly therefore, he cannot be inclusively classed as anything. The only time you did was in S2 when Penny asked what is Sheldon's deal, no on knows that is the point I beleive he has repressed the same urges people get, because he diddn't go through the same formulative years, his friends did. But that does not mean he is asex or hedrosex, the writers have just never diagnosed it, therefore he has none. Asex is not defined by being "put off". But having no desire what so ever. And we all know Sheldon has never shown any desire. But we also know in S6 he revealed to Leonard and Penny, "I have not ruled out coitus with Amy". So theirs some evidence right their too me anyway maybe Sheldon was just waiting for the right women.  

Edited by 3ku11

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